Arelith

Scylon wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:52 am

I'd personally like to see classes like RDD or BG reduced a but to allow them to be taken at level 4.

Not that it really relates to Hexblades, but BG really should be able to use divine wands natively and lose its BAB requirement. I've always been more than miffed at how much better dipping Paladin really is, to say nothing of the superb craftables or fear immunity. You'd also have to re-key the summons to work from character level than BG level; otherwise you'd have level 13s running around with Glabrezus, which would be a mite overtuned.

More on topic: new visuals when???

Been playing my hex lately, and it feels a bit weird that a spontaneous caster has so few casts while also getting a limited selection of spells. Every other spontaneous caster gets +2 spell casts for their limited choices.

My hexblade/bg has okay-ish 'mana'.

I never felt like I'm supposed to relay too much on my spellbook with this class, being full bab, and the core stuff is CD based or permanent on the weapon. Having about as many spells per day as a paladin or ranger seems reasonable.

Please don't give hexblades more things. They are already very scary melee opponents.

Aren wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:20 pm

Please don't give hexblades more things. They are already very scary melee opponents.

Would you consider them strong 1v1 opponents or overall powerhouses? (Curious as someone who generally has only theorycrafted with hexblades and find them strong in 1v1s only.)

Good Character wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:12 pm

Aren wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:20 pm

Please don't give hexblades more things. They are already very scary melee opponents.

Would you consider them strong 1v1 opponents or overall powerhouses? (Curious as someone who generally has only theorycrafted with hexblades and find them strong in 1v1s only.)

Kalopsia showed us on pgcc how 30 hexblade is a serious 1v1 winner, against pretty much anything (including your most extreme gnoll barb/wm with 1 or 2 epic rages).

In a party pvp, you have lackluster ac so you can be focused down by the enemy team (but you have DI% to slow down your death significantly in that scenario) and *you* can pick one target your party needs to focus and that target gets a lot of physical and elemental vulnerability and ac debuff, so you and your party delete them and proceed to next priority target.

Hexblade's forte is strong offense, which makes the class slightly more party dependent in epic level pve, but the damage is nuts and the pve clear speed is accordingly nuts.

Baseili wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:32 am

It occurs to me if darkfire no longer works with curse weapon, would it make sense to pair up elemental damage into a single curse like hypocrisy? Such as Malice - Acid and Electric, Hatred - Fire and Sonic, Ambivalence - Fire and Cold, Apathy - Cold and Sonic etc.

I think this would be more suiting if we want to portray hexblades as agents of ruineous powers. Then let the damage be +1/+1 which effectively is the same as picking an elemental curse atm.

jomonog wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:14 am

Just a random thought, it would be cool if hex damage benefited from 2 handing like divine might does (1.5 x damage). Would make a 2 handing strength based hexblade an alternative to the inevitable dex hex/monk quarterstaff builds.

I think this could be a fair addition if Curse damage was multiplied by 1.5x (rounded down) in the case that the wielder got +2 AB from handing a weapon. You are effectively giving up on APR and/or AC and will VERY likely be a Str build which lacks behind. This might seem wild but consider that rangers FE reaches +5 at level 20 without having to invest much. And you are pretty likely to be on his FE list.

As many before have pointed out the spellbook could use a little Garr love. When looking at 4th circle there are multiple good spells that all compete but at 3rd circle however it's a bit lackluster. These are some suggestions:
- Crushing Despair is moved from 4th circle to 3rd circle since the Innate level of the spell is 3. It only lasts rounds/level anyway.
- Haste as 3rd circle would be nice but I am aware that this is a slippery slope. Innate level is 3.
This would make the spellbook on par with Bards while still having Imp invis at 4th circle.

Curse of Life with its scaling DI I think could be a Con requirement instead as this seems more fitting. Having it be only Str 13 is a pretty cheap investment in Str for what is effectively gives you a EDR feat (req Con 19).

Con instead for curse of life would be dope.

Is there any chance of str reqs in general getting a look, now that 10 apr hexmonk isn't a thing anymore?

As well, can the curse just stay on the weapon if it's sheathed and the hexblade hasn't rested? Even a like, two ig hour duration before it falls off if not held would be awesome.

Drowboy wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:38 pm

Con instead for curse of life would be dope.

Is there any chance of str reqs in general getting a look, now that 10 apr hexmonk isn't a thing anymore?

As well, can the curse just stay on the weapon if it's sheathed and the hexblade hasn't rested? Even a like, two ig hour duration before it falls off if not held would be awesome.

Yes there is, but it would require someone else taking it up for it to be done anytime soon. I'm doing 80+ hour weeks until October.

Cursed weapons traditionally cannot be unequipped, but due to engine limitations, I went the compromise route of the curse fading when you sheath the weapon. It was for thematic reasons, but more importantly it also prevents you from sharing the weapon with other characters. Since this mechanic seems to be unpopular, I'm open to just changing it to remove it on drop/trade, but again, it won't happen until October unless someone else takes it up.

My apologies if this has been mentioned in the thread already, I feel like I may have posted a comment to this effect elsewhere but it may have been here.

Hide, move silently and a couple more skill ranks per level would make the class even more compelling imho. The class already feels like a cruel reflection of the ranger with all its armor limitations and reliance on evil extraplanar entities and arcane magic instead of animals and divine magic, not to mention the cursed weapon gimmick as an answer to two weapon fighting.

Some hexblades strike me as more conventional and knight-like, but there's shadowy/tricky aspect to the class too.

The addition of use traps to r knight's skill list has already made the class much more compelling for me

garrbear758 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:42 pm

Drowboy wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:38 pm

Con instead for curse of life would be dope.

Is there any chance of str reqs in general getting a look, now that 10 apr hexmonk isn't a thing anymore?

As well, can the curse just stay on the weapon if it's sheathed and the hexblade hasn't rested? Even a like, two ig hour duration before it falls off if not held would be awesome.

Yes there is, but it would require someone else taking it up for it to be done anytime soon. I'm doing 80+ hour weeks until October.

Cursed weapons traditionally cannot be unequipped, but due to engine limitations, I went the compromise route of the curse fading when you sheath the weapon. It was for thematic reasons, but more importantly it also prevents you from sharing the weapon with other characters. Since this mechanic seems to be unpopular, I'm open to just changing it to remove it on drop/trade, but again, it won't happen until October unless someone else takes it up.

I would like to point out that specifically Curse of Hypocrisy does not ever fade until you rest or maybe after 24 hours when it expires. If you, for example, switch you another weapon you keep that +4 damage. It can also be annoying because when you switch to a mining axe or gem hammer you really dont want that damage there (although, it seems from the log that this 2 positive 2 negative are resisted by the vein which is also strange because it's 'true' damage, so I'm not sure whether or not it screws up with mining but I think it does).

Just did a bit of testing on PGCC with my str hexblade.

The Curse of Hypocrisy is probably the best of the damage curses. But at Str 15 it is even more expensive than Div stuff. Makes it look like hexblades are getting forced towards the Str build. Could be lowered to Str 13 such that it is on par with divs. Especially if Curse of Life is changed to Con 15 instead.
Taking Hex of Duality (which is a lvl 23 str gated hex) is kind of a bummer. It effectively only adds +1/+1 damage since the 15% damage vunerability round the numbers down. Thus the pos/neg damage will be 3/3 and not 4/4. You could choose not to have the Hypocrisy curse and essence your weapon with pos/neg but then you're stopped by defensive essences instead. I suppose that the same is true for the Hex of Elemental Decay.

Suggestions for other possible Curses/hexes:
Curse of Foul Pestilence - onHit inflicts random poison and/or disease.
Hex of Frail Demise - Reduce target stats by 1 per 5 levels
Hex of the Feeble Words - add 5% spell failure per 5 levels
Hex of the Unspoken - add 5-10% chance per 5 levels that target is silenced for 4 second

Suggestions to spell list:
Bane
Doom
Death armour
Protection from alignment

also... why are darkfire and magic weapon added to hexblade when curse weapon overrides them?

The vulnerability hexes don't do anything to your curse damage, I'm pretty sure, at all. I swear that's back in the thread somewhere as intentional.

Correct, Ele Decay and Duality do /not/ affect your curse weapon. Generally they’re still a good choice as they’re amazing vulnerabilities for your spell casting friends. If you roll with a true flame they will be so in love, lol.

Generally I think Hex are in a great place for pure, deep, and dips. AC on pure is rough, but far from impossible to manage. I still wouldn’t mind seeing something fancy for level 28 hex, +6 on hex’s / curse is real nice, don’t get me wrong, but it’s a little underwhelming for the price you pay.

I’m always a little bummed that I have to remove my badass +2 cha armor to rest as I drop a spell over it. Just some feedback.

a shrouded figure wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:24 pm

Generally I think Hex are in a great place for pure, deep, and dips. AC on pure is rough, but far from impossible to manage. I still wouldn’t mind seeing something fancy for level 28 hex, +6 on hex’s / curse is real nice, don’t get me wrong, but it’s a little underwhelming for the price you pay.

I’m always a little bummed that I have to remove my badass +2 cha armor to rest as I drop a spell over it. Just some feedback.

Agree. Having to remove armour before rest is a bummer. Especially if the CHA stat bonus is on armour. To my knowledge there isn't any ring/necklace that caters towards hex yet compared to leafwalkers token (+2 con, 2nd +3rd circle spellslot)

I'm not sure I see pure Hex as a viable option but I can see a 25-26 Hex be viable with some kind of dip to help you with more AC and/or possibly skills (spellcraft, tumble etc). AC wise I would say hex are probably worst off of all str classes. You don't have div might/shield, no bonus ac like barbs, no dualwield or barkskin like rangers, no tumble like swash.

30 hexblade is likely the most optimal option for pvp right now.

This class is not designed with any defensive perks. It can get defensive perks from a bg dip or going dex based but I have no doubt the most optimal use of this is just 30 hexblade falchion. Delete the other guy while they chew through your DI% or get KDed.

For a less optimal build pvp but probably more fun pve experience, go 27/3 bg. dex based. Stack a bunch of +2 damage curses and you're good to go. Maybe Curse of life will fit into this dex based build sooner or later.

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:24 pm

30 hexblade is likely the most optimal option for pvp right now.

This class is not designed with any defensive perks. It can get defensive perks from a bg dip or going dex based but I have no doubt the most optimal use of this is just 30 hexblade falchion. Delete the other guy while they chew through your DI% or get KDed.

For a less optimal build pvp but probably more fun pve experience, go 27/3 bg. dex based. Stack a bunch of +2 damage curses and you're good to go. Maybe Curse of life will fit into this dex based build sooner or later.

Definitely agreed.

I’ve played several different hex builds now and pure hex seems to be the most competitive in pvp. Far from OP, in my opinion, your counters are oppressive, but versus quite a few “meta” builds this can be ridiculously effective while still offering some options for variety.

Generally I’ve found that a big race is hilariously fun when you jam 13 int and IKD into it, but any medium race is extremely effective as well. You basically trade the +4 size bonus on KD for + 1 AB.

PVE is definitely more challenging on pure hex (soloing) as you need to be careful about big groups but 1v1 hex is feeling very strong.

As long as I’m not “wtf happened” burned down in group pvp, you can definitely swing group fights by just sticking to a target and putting them on their butt.

10/10 I sooo enjoy Hexblades. I think there’s room for some minor QoL upgrades (for other classes / builds as well) that don’t create power creep while also not hitting the class. When looking at pure builds, a lot of them are startlingly strong (no one seems to mention the ridiculous lawl that is 30 fighter), and I don’t want to see any of them nerfed to the ground- simply adjusted at this stage.

I think pure classes stick out sometimes when they’re doing well- but it’s often easy to forget how many things are sacrificed for getting those sweet sweet pure class advantages.

What's the gear set-up that lets you maximize on your DI%? Been thinking of finally committing more than a few levels for a hexblade, and the 30 pure sounds interesting.

Hexblade DI is pretty poor. You're looking at 18% DI from curse of life, 5% from half-orc/orog, 15% bludgeoning, 10% slashing and 5% piercing for a grand total of 38% at best & 28% at worst (piercing). Pair this with the inability to mitigate crit damage and the abysmally low AC score, it is no barbarian, defender or PM. You mitigate maybe 7-8 damage out of 40-50 and 18-20 out of x2 crits.

Hexblade is kinda strong guys.

30 hexblade, 15 hexblade, 5 hexblade , anything works pretty well. The spells they get are pretty strong on their own and adding more spell slots on top is entirely unnecessary.

My only pet-peeve is the way curse weapon works ( removing any buff on the weapon ), but it's really whatever.

Hexblade DI is pretty poor. You're looking at 18% DI from curse of life, 5% from half-orc/orog, 15% bludgeoning, 10% slashing and 5% piercing for a grand total of 38% at best & 28% at worst (piercing). Pair this with the inability to mitigate crit damage and the abysmally low AC score, it is no barbarian, defender or PM. You mitigate maybe 7-8 damage out of 40-50 and 18-20 out of x2 crits.

Yeah the DI is really disappointing...

I find that the DI is actually in an okay spot. I wouldnt like to see EDR hexblade builds cropping up as actually optimal. It would be bad day for Arelith. 30% DI with items is pretty decent. getting crit for 100 physical damage results in taking only 70. It's not incredibly powerful but it is exactly that extra advantage the hexblade needs to be the one getting the other guy to 0 hp before their own death.

I sort of feel like they got left behind during skill point Christmas a few weeks ago. To me, they sit sort of between ranger and paladin. Not the great utility forest adventurer. It they need a few more shady skills than their good counterpoint. I honestly think 6 per level would be good. That gets you hide/ms or bluff/intimidate or something useful. Right now it sort of feels like the old style where you have enough to scrape by with 4 but not anything to put into social skills.

There are ways to improve the di a bit through weapon slot or shield slot. Also you can really amp it dipping defender for safeguard. DI characters make for a tough low level grind.

I think the DI really will depend on what race and gear you do. At lvl 25 hex with "basic" armour you would have
15 curse DI + 10 slash DI + 10 piercing DI + 10 blunt DI. So at the very least at lvl 25 you got 25% DI.
Add 5% if you do Orog/Orc/Gnoll.
Horc/Gnoll even allow you to pick Con gift which would open up for EDR3. And picking 4-5 levels of barb adds 5% DI in rage.

But I really dont want this to be the only viable option for a hexblade.

Ordo.Lupus wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:21 pm

But I really dont want this to be the only viable option for a hexblade.

Ranger
Barbarian
Swashbuckler
Weapon master
Blackguard
Loremaster
Earthkin Defender
+many more

All viable multiclasses, as is staying pure. Heck, hex/BG explicitly has certain class synergies disabled.

I don't think hexblades are even close to underpowered. Maintainable 52AB as well as -12 to all skills (read: discipline) means you need 60+ discipline to even try and resist their IKD.

Hexblades are one of the premier "haha dps go brr" classes, and saying that they are frail with low AC is both true and balanced, imo.

a shrouded figure wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:47 pm

I think pure classes stick out sometimes when they’re doing well- but it’s often easy to forget how many things are sacrificed for getting those sweet sweet pure class advantages.

While it is true for most classes who go pure, which is why you mostly dont see people go pure on most classes, hexblade's design is quite different. If you go deep Hexblade build, its very one dimensional - you want to kill before getting killed, because your ac wont be great and you have a bucketload of damage - so you might as well build for what your class is good for - so 30 hexblade outshines counterparts in that situation because it just does what the class wants to do the best, with the highest AB possible, with minimum time wasted on windup. I guess you can slap bg dip for 9 ac and damage, but you are increasing your wind up time, and your ac will still be crap because you're a two hander and if you're not a 2 hander than you're still not getting comparable ac to dexers but you screwed your ab, thus, dps quite severely in the attempt to have comparable ac. So the tl;dr hexblade is a special exception where it actually is optimal to go pure, and you also have dark blessing, situational neg burst, 100% invisibility purge up time and the 30%~ DI along with the concealment advantage are quite enough to help you KD and delete the other guy while you have effectively 0 ac. Hexblades are no different and do give up stuff for not multiclassing, but they better off doing so, unlike other classes. If we wanted, in theory, and I dont say we should, but if we wanted to expand the build diversity for deep hexblade builds, we should cap curse weapon at +5.