Recent Ammunition Nerf

[msterswrdsmn]

Adding my two cents

I can understand the need for a pvp balance, but this will really suck for pve, where a lot of the things that work in PVP do not work on areliths PVE. Cornersneaking comes to mind (pve enemies will flat out ignore this unless you have a huge headstart), as well as ranged-spamming a target to some extent, as you have the unfortunate chance of drawing multiple enemies at once.

The last ranged character I played did decently well, but it took a lot of tweaking to do it (animal empathy, death attacks, -horrific- darkness spamming, poison, traps, AND a half-decent melee ability). Granted, I didn't powerbuild this guy, but I can't imagine playing a ranged-based character would be much easier even with a better build; most of that characters success was from my knowledge of Arelith/nwn tactics.

Again, I understand the pvp aspect, but on the flip side, I can't recall the last time I ever pvp'd someone who was ranged focused in recent years. The last pvp-brawl I had one-on-one was with Spike. Against the Arcane-Archer version of Herial. Since then I've seen maybe 6 dedicated ranged characters excluding my own. They're kind of a rarity compared to the other builds out there.

[Nobs]

Just give them - (Number)AB when moving.

[Archnon]

So, the nerf was absolutely necessary and I say that as a regular archer player. Though on a few, I think it went a bit too far. Essences are now 9/10 better than spells and maybe that is a bit extreme. One nice side effect is that Archers have to invest a lot less in templates now. Holding 2-3 Stable Templates with permanent essences that you can customize with an additional essence or spell as required. In the end, the cost of churning out standard templates for unstable slots was high.

However, before we go nerfing more, there needs to be distinctions between Archer types. Especially now that ranger is no longer required for Archer it is going to open up some new builds. The reality is that the big damage dealers are Arcane Archers. Beyond that, the damage is pretty on point.

As far as the mechanics, I had no idea. That sounds really complicated and hopefully people aren't abusing it in mass. I have never seen it though and it sounds like many of the solutions would be rather difficult to implement.

[Barkoneus]

A good archer has can't even be a good archer apparently until reading this forum on how to do the W trick is the frustrating part for me. Ofbwe want to balance around amazing mobility while firing, we should have a guide on the wiki has mass majority of players, in my subjective opinion, trying to be be archers have been doing it wrong for years. I have not once even witnessed the Hold W and click trick in my off and on years of nwn. Not that I play much in those years, but I think those who know the mechanic exploit are in the minority by a massive margin.

Just want to chime in there that I play an archer and this nerf doesn't affect me at all because apparently I am an idiot.

1) I had no idea about the W-click run-and-shoot "technique". I can't label it an exploit because apparently it's perfectly acceptable to use? Definitely going to practice that one now.

2) At early levels I saved and saved, and finally bought a Stable template. I used that same template all the way through level 30, until I accidentally used up all the charges and it poofed. So I bought another Stable template! 99% of my arrows have been from essences only. It never even occurred to me that I could have my arrows do WAY MORE DAMAGE by having spell casters enchant a standard template! My arrows always do +4 / +4 / +1-6 from the permanent/permanent/temporary essences.

3) Did I mention I'm an idiot?

The good news is that if you only ever use 1 Stable template, and invest in alchemy to make your own essences, crafting sub-par arrows really isn't tedious at all!

[Skarain]

Darkfire is still "ok" in the template. +2 fire +2 negative is compareable to permanent essence, and is way better than +3 sonic from deafening clang, and better than 1d6 fire/other from flame weapon. All cast from scrolls. Sure, the 1d8 fire essence from merchant would be better, but for pve i think it would be an overkill.

With my unoptimal support build with mediocre dex (with no weapon/combat feats), i have noticed that my crossbow damage is compareable with most melee weapons. We are still in early epics and i play with folks that do not powerbuild too hard.

So the damage seems fine. And as long as you party with anyone who can guard, you won't be eating all monster hits due to drawing aggro. I can imagine that the numers will look better if you play a class that gives more damage, such as ranger, aa or what have you.

So in conclusion, i am fine with this.

[HeyLadyOfDecay]

I just made my archer just as good with melee weapons. Basicly that means I suck a bit in both styles but I have a larger range in tactics.