Cavalier Overhaul Feedback Megathread

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Kenji
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Cavalier Overhaul Feedback Megathread

Post by Kenji » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:14 am

Please refer to the following google sheets for all intended (present and future) changes for Cavalier's Spirited Charge
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Things to note:
  • Bullrush is based on strength modifier, armor type, racial size, cavalier levels, and 1d20. A heavy armor 15 str mod level 10 cavalier can knock a 15 str mod medium-sized opponent with heavy armor down ~25% of the time.
  • Daze and Stun should be rendered ineffectual if the target has mind immunity such as Perfect Self, Clarity, Mind Blank variants, or etc.
  • Bleed damage is pending to be included given the current performance of the weapons.
I am looking for live feedbacks such as:
  1. How does the cavalier perform in 1v1 or small scale PvP situation? What about large scale PvP where flat-footing infantry might play a bigger role? (Remember to note what that particular build was and what weapon it was wielding)
  2. Which classes/builds were the cavalier up against for the above question?
  3. Which Cavalry Weapon feels like overperforming or underperforming given which class combo and build (light flail with dex/div for example)
  4. Are the current slashing cavalry weapons already good enough as it is without bleed damage? Or do they need it in order to compete with the weapons that have better and longer CCs but less charge damage?
  5. Anything else you can think of.
For bug reports, please head to the following thread linked below:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=32341
Last edited by Kenji on Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Zavandar » Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:49 pm

the cc effects need a check
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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Complex » Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:16 pm

I have fought Cavaliers on a Wizard/Ranger and I can say that if the KD is guaranteed (with the Daze only being blockable with Mind Immunity things), all builds under 500 HP are going to have to blow their pray and that is if they are lucky enough not to be two-shot. I remember getting hit for 200 damage on a non crit through Premonition (since they get the +6 AB bonus). Also, if the Cavalier has a friend WM or mage- well, you are definetely dead. This is basically a single target Hellball that doesn't knock down your team and has the chance to hit for 200 damage or more, which would basically mean to never fight a mounted Cavalier if you are not a div dexer or an archer.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Saleph » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:10 pm

A first observation and something I would like to see would be one of the Cav. weapons being affected by the 2h Wf.
Like the bastard sword, getting the focus and being able to be wielded 2h but without the +2AB.

There might even be an argument for having a full 2h weapon to be a Cavalier weapon. Since 2h isnt really better and the loss of shield AC makes up for what you get, it just gives opportuinity for a broader variation of builds.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Mortem_Fero » Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:58 pm

Hi all,

Scimitars and Falchion, please! :D

first off really appriciate that the Cavalier has more weapon choices! Dont want to comment on balance yet, as I need to do some testing on the test and live server (about to hit my first lvl Cavalier at lvl 20 - was planned before these changes took place)

- just a note on the weapon varity: love that we have hammers, spears, lances and swords and asian influenced weaponary like naginate, katana and such but would be cool you could add scimitars/falchion to evoke cuirassier (french cavalier) and/or eastern cavalry (Rashidun army).

I know Arelith DnD isnt all about realism but horse and sabre-like sword are pretty common and would be cool to look like it. Just a cosmetic note and just wanted to state what I would like to see - you go for what you want and it might not be possible because of balance. Cheers

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Tarkus the dog » Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:51 am

1 and 2. Seeming like a run-in, deal damage, get out-kind of class, I'd imagine not very enjoyable for any melees having to fight the Cavalier 1v1. Flat-footing somebody in a big fight = They are probably dead. Here I can see them playing two roles, the role of a semi-support and damage dealer/bruiser. Assuming most builds will slap CON and EDR. DD + Cav, Barb + Cav, PDK + Cav, anything like that comes to mind. Pressuring archers and especially mages due to the movement speed shouldn't be an issue for them which is crucial in big PvPs, but just ducking into the building is always one way to deal with a horseman.

3. Whatever has most damage or CC. Heavy flail is what I'd use unless I'm trying to tank.
4. Hard to tell without knowing how much damage the bleed does.
5. Stun/Daze having no check I'm semi-alright with, KD however lacking a DC is not a fun mechanic.

However, my biggest concern is regarding PvE -- It would be nice to have a LOOPABLE dungeon ( with very good xp, of course! ) in open field that all cavalier could enjoy. Hoozah.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Rico_scorpion » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:33 am

However, my biggest concern is regarding PvE -- It would be nice to have a LOOPABLE dungeon ( with very good xp, of course! ) in open field that all cavalier could enjoy. Hoozah.
Pleaaaaasseeeee! :D This has been overdue since horses were introduced.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by -XXX- » Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:47 am

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:51 am
However, my biggest concern is regarding PvE -- It would be nice to have a LOOPABLE dungeon ( with very good xp, of course! ) in open field that all cavalier could enjoy. Hoozah.
Orclands

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Kenji » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:57 pm

I. Scimitars, Falchions, and Kukri will never be considered as cavalry weapons unless Irongron does an executive override. Reasons are as follows:
1. They will simply become the meta choice due to their threat range and thus make other cavalry weapons less appealing much like the current non-weapon master melee meta.

2. The Cavalry Sword’s models have both straight and curved blade aesthetics much like Bastard Sword. This is to simulate various swords used by various historical and cultural periods of cavalry. Aesthetics-wise the team believes they offer the curved sword aesthetics well enough that we don’t see the need to make scimitars or falchion cavalry weapons mechanically.

II. Spirited Charge Knockdown will likely steer towards the design with strength checks similar to that of Belegarn’s Horn or Bigby’s Bullrush. This way, it benefits the str cavs more so than dex cavs. The str targets will also be less likely to be CC’d compare to non-str targets.

III. Cavalier max level will be increased from 5 to 10, spirited charge will be tiered and damage will scale with both cavalier levels and character levels with cavalier levels getting much higher damage scaling.

This is to force casters (divine battle casters, spellswords, etc) to choose in between a very effective charge at the cost of their caster levels or not as effective spirited charge but still retaining the majority of their caster levels.
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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Archnon » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:43 pm

Has there been any thought to developing a countering weapon for using against horses. It would be fun to have a long spear or pike or halberd that gave bonus damage against mounted enemies. Sort of an aside but something that struck me as I was thinking through this and the implications for pvp and getting caught in the open.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Kenji » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:52 pm

Archnon wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:43 pm
Has there been any thought to developing a countering weapon for using against horses. It would be fun to have a long spear or pike or halberd that gave bonus damage against mounted enemies. Sort of an aside but something that struck me as I was thinking through this and the implications for pvp and getting caught in the open.
A very fine idea, though it’d likely become another topic for discussion, mainly something to do with mounted mechanics and mount overhaul that will come at a far later date (or never). While I’d like to entertain the idea personally, I’d rather not digress from the current topic at hand, which is cavalier prestige class.
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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Smooth Operator » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:13 pm

Kenji wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:57 pm
II. Spirited Charge Knockdown will likely steer towards the design with strength checks similar to that of Belegarn’s Horn or Bigby’s Bullrush. This way, it benefits the str cavs more so than dex cavs. The str targets will also be less likely to be CC’d compare to non-str targets.
The issue is that those spells have ways of being countered, as does the average Knockdown. Having an ability like this will make it so (Div) Dex builds tank it with Epic Dodge (or they will turn IE on), STR builds resist it, and casters are decimated because just from being hit they will get half their HP bar removed, and then they will be knocked down and killed.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Rico_scorpion » Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:30 pm

Kenji wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:57 pm
I. Scimitars, Falchions, and Kukri will never be considered to be cavalry weapons unless Irongron does an executive override. Reasons are as follow:
1. They will simply become the meta choice due to their threat range and thus make other cavalry weapons less appealing much like the current non-weapon master melee meta.

2. The Cavalry Sword’s models have both straight and curved blade aesthetics much like Bastard Sword. This is to simulate various swords used by various historical and cultural periods of cavalry. Aesthetics-wise the team believes they offer the curved sword aesthetics well enough that we don’t see the need to make scimitars or falchion cavalry weapons mechanically.

II. Spirited Charge Knockdown will likely steer towards the design with strength checks similar to that of Belegarn’s Horn or Bigby’s Bullrush. This way, it benefits the str cavs more so than dex cavs. The str targets will also be less likely to be CC’d compare to non-str targets.

III. Cavalier max level will be increased from 5 to 10, spirited charge will be tiered and damage will scale with both cavalier levels and character levels with cavalier levels getting much higher damage scaling.

This is to force casters (divine battle casters, spellswords, etc) to choose in between a very effective charge at the cost of their caster levels or not as effective spirited charge but still retaining the majority of their caster levels.
I hope this is not derailing but you got me confused here on the context surrounding your post.

Oh and obviously: thanks for taking the time to discuss with us, it's very informative. Keep it up!

So if I understand right: the update that just happened to Cavalier is a small part of an overhaul of the class that is in the pipes? Do you have a very broad estimate of when it will it? Will current cavaliers that built around the 5-level-class offered a rebuild?

Also while I'm here i'm confused on another topic: the update said that CAvalry axe/hammer/sword was added to Arelith. However, both on PGCC and on Arelith, I can't find any recipe related to that and wouldn't know how to get such a weapon. Did I miss something obvious? Are they sold by obscure foig vendors? loot?

Again sorry if those questions seem dumb.

Edit/addendum: if Cavalier is getting some love soon. Is it worth listing/reporting all the soft-bugs that one may encounter when fiddling with horses, or are those known? (note: these bugs on Arelith are fairly obvious and have been there for a while so I assume the obvious ones are known. Two examples: auto-unequip when you get on foot (remove your quickslot too) // your collision/push box keeping the size of the on-horse one, after getting on foot)

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Red_Wharf » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:00 am

Smooth Operator wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:13 pm
and casters are decimated because just from being hit they will get half their HP bar removed, and then they will be knocked down and killed.
What is stopping a weapon master from doing exactly that right now? Cavaliers don't have a high damage horseman monopoly.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Smooth Operator » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:26 am

Red_Wharf wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:00 am
Smooth Operator wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:13 pm
and casters are decimated because just from being hit they will get half their HP bar removed, and then they will be knocked down and killed.
What is stopping a weapon master from doing exactly that right now? Cavaliers don't have a high damage horseman monopoly.
The WM's KD is rolled against the target's discipline, which is a skill all builds try to get to a reasonable number (and it is something almost all can do, too). If Cavaliers got a KD that was only saveable through STR, it'd be 100% more powerful because there would be no way to counter it except being STR based. Also, I am pretty sure Cavalier's damage is sort of ridiculous if they crit, so you would not only get knocked down savelessly but also be hurt bad.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Red_Wharf » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:55 am

Kenji wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:57 pm
III. Cavalier max level will be increased from 5 to 10, spirited charge will be tiered and damage will scale with both cavalier levels and character levels with cavalier levels getting much higher damage scaling.
Can you elaborate on that? Will the current feats and bonuses that Cavalier already gets remain as they are or are they going to be unlocked further closer to level 10? What about spirited charge damage, how weaker will it be if we do not get all 10 class levels?

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Mortem_Fero » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:05 am

Thanks for the clarification about scimitar and falchion not been added - had no idea we can customize bastard/ cavalry sword to look more curved, so great that we can do that.

You said you will bump up cavalier from lvl 5 to 10. I have a current Cavalier (made before the changes) will that affect us? Obviously cavalier will change but does that mean we get less feats for the 5 lvl dip (3 atm) and lose access to spirited charge if we dont go full into it?

If you cant tell us yet, I understand but I am about to hit epic and will wait with my character progression (I dont have room to take more than 5 lvls and my built is "broken" if i lose the feats)

I know and i am not saying you should concern yourself with existing builts - just wanting a heads up what you know will change so i know if i request a delevl and look at something else (i am almost 20 and i think i took 8 ride and 17 and moynted combat at 18).

Cheers and really happy to see that Cavalier gets some love.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Gouge Away » Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:02 am

I wish I'd have known Cavaliers would be changed before I spent my level 14 award on something that likely won't work at all soon (Ftr/EKD/Cav won't fly if you need 10 cavalier levels!)

I would echo, can you give us any indication what you are thinking so existing cavaliers would be able to have an idea how to aim a build? I'll be told I have to "wait and see" I am sure but honestly it would take a lot of oomph to get me to take a class that requires 10 levels and is only at its peak if you're outside, on horseback and on the surface. As a novelty 5 level dip tacked on to other melee classes it's awesome right now but if you make it 10 levels that will rule out a lot of options.*

*maybe consider taking away the bab requirement and making mounted combat the only prerequisite if it's a 10 level investment...? so at least you could take the cavalier levels sooner...

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Tarkus the dog » Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:55 am

-XXX- wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:47 am
Tarkus the dog wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:51 am
However, my biggest concern is regarding PvE -- It would be nice to have a LOOPABLE dungeon ( with very good xp, of course! ) in open field that all cavalier could enjoy. Hoozah.
Orclands
Both Orclands loops include indoor areas. Also the most popular surface dungeon being the first to come to mind adds to my inquiry.

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Kenji » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:16 am

I might have raised more questions than answers, but let's start with the easier ones. I may not be able to answer all of the questions at once but I will try my best.
Rico_scorpion wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:33 am
However, my biggest concern is regarding PvE -- It would be nice to have a LOOPABLE dungeon ( with very good xp, of course! ) in open field that all cavalier could enjoy. Hoozah.
Pleaaaaasseeeee! :D This has been overdue since horses were introduced.
Area design isn't within the purview of a script contributor (me). Or to put it the other way around, I'm not qualified for it and it's up to other area designers for this type of feedback. However, what this indirectly tells me is that Cavalier's kit might be in need of some on-foot cookies, as well.
Rico_scorpion wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:30 pm
... CAvalry axe/hammer/sword was added to Arelith...
The groundwork for these weapons is complete. They will be craftable Soon™.
Rico_scorpion wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:30 pm
...Is it worth listing/reporting all the soft-bugs that one may encounter when fiddling with horses, or are those known?...
Compile the notes and keep them somewhere safe, I'll request them in eventuality (Soon™). For now, I'd very much like to focus on the Cavalier class itself.
Rico_scorpion wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:30 pm
Will current cavaliers that built around the 5-level-class offered a rebuild?
Yes.
Red_Wharf wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:55 am
Can you elaborate on that? Will the current feats and bonuses that Cavalier already gets remain as they are or are they going to be unlocked further closer to level 10? What about spirited charge damage, how weaker will it be if we do not get all 10 class levels?
With everything in constant flux, all I can say is that many of the current features up to lvl5 cavalier will be identical or at least similar, except for spirited charge damage and ride bonus scaling. I will elaborate on this further along with all the other cav level cap inquiries later.
Smooth Operator wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:26 am
The WM's KD is rolled against the target's discipline, which is a skill all builds try to get to a reasonable number (and it is something almost all can do, too). If Cavaliers got a KD that was only saveable through STR, it'd be 100% more powerful because there would be no way to counter it except being STR based. Also, I am pretty sure Cavalier's damage is sort of ridiculous if they crit, so you would not only get knocked down savelessly but also be hurt bad.
Wild Dorf Barb/WM: GMW Scim, 13-20 threat range (40% crit rate vs low AC targets, non-div casters, etc)
160*2 dmg on the first flurry with a 16% chance of that happening
160 + 53 dmg on the first flurry with a 48% chance of that happening
53*2 dmg on the first flurry with a 36% chance of that happening

190.52 average dmg on the first flurry vs 229 avg dmg from 1 lance charge.
320 crit dmg at 16% chance vs 276 lance crit dmg at 15% chance for cavs
Barb/WM has AoE fear that can be negated by clarity.
Barb/WM can continue to attack or chase.
Cav doesn't have KD or stun in the case of Lance

Now, imagine Cav using a 1H blunt cav weapon for the 1.5s KD and 1APR, how much damage will she lose? And these are the current 5 levels of cav design numbers. With the expansion to 10 levels of cav along with some other nerfs (+5 Lance to +4 Lance and GMW has a limited Enhancement for Spirited Charge purposes, there, I said it), characters may have to pick in between 23 Fighter 7 Cav or 16 Ftr 10 Cav 4 Div for example. And we all know how much a build loses without the divine dips.

"Also, I am pretty sure Cavalier's damage is sort of ridiculous if they crit" I'll be blunt, this is a very relative and subjective term and won't hold much sway in my eyes. Show me the numbers, give me actual examples, make a compelling argument. Here, use this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =172735863

I'd say from the above comparison, that 1.5 seconds of KD (actually a 5% chance of failure since 1 is an auto-fail) against a caster without follow-up damage (provided Spirited Charge works as intended, which is another topic) isn't as bad as you put it. There are worse things out there available right now which I won't delve much into.

A good point has been brought up, however: a character with epic dodge will be a hard-counter to cavalier's spirited charge, in combination with dex/div might be a harder balance to solve. But, then, is it really still on Cavalier's design at that point? Or is it Dex/Div/EDodge that needs to be looked into in the first place?
Rico_scorpion wrote:
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:30 pm
Do you have a very broad estimate of when it will it?
I think the answer to this is very clear: Soon™

P.S.: Soon™ is a jestful term and may actually mean soon or indefinitely on-hold. It is meant to be vague and light-hearted, for those incapable of realizing that I am actually a human being.
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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Kenji » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:31 am

Gouge Away wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:02 am
I wish I'd have known Cavaliers would be changed before I spent my level 14 award on something that likely won't work at all soon (Ftr/EKD/Cav won't fly if you need 10 cavalier levels!)

I would echo, can you give us any indication what you are thinking so existing cavaliers would be able to have an idea how to aim a build? I'll be told I have to "wait and see" I am sure but honestly it would take a lot of oomph to get me to take a class that requires 10 levels and is only at its peak if you're outside, on horseback and on the surface. As a novelty 5 level dip tacked on to other melee classes it's awesome right now but if you make it 10 levels that will rule out a lot of options.*

*maybe consider taking away the bab requirement and making mounted combat the only prerequisite if it's a 10 level investment...? so at least you could take the cavalier levels sooner...
The reason why it'd take away a lot of "oomph" from your build, or any other "Great at everything except damage or has too much wind-up" builds:
PMs, BClerics, SS, BSouls, EkD, and etc, is that they can simply go into 5 levels of cavalier and get a massive boost on damage in their kit: a ~190dmg or 380 crit dmg in 1 attack while having all the great saves, defensives, spells, wards, or different "win"-conditions (i.e. not dying, stalling).
Just to reiterate: 5 levels can be a relatively small investment for such a large margin of return that the current design will actually further limit the meta for many Surface builds.

Some argue that there aren't many places where one can mount. Well, will the aforementioned builds now become toothless because they now have 1 less mini-nuke? No. They simply lose a tool to secure kills. They still have their defensive capabilities, they still have their spells, their wards, their damage reductions, or whatever it is their kit shines on.

Another thing to mention for comparison is Ranger's natural area HiPS. While it covers more ground than mounted areas, it is still limited in some very populous areas such as cityscapes or unnatural dungeons. These classes are meant to pick and choose their battlegrounds. A design that attempts to be good at everything and everywhere is not a good design, at least in my honest opinion.

Last but not least, I provide no sympathy or feelings of guilt for statements such as "I wish I'd have known Cavaliers would be changed before I spent my level 14 award on something that likely won't work at all soon"

Because I am confident with what I have in mind will still allow a 5 Cav dip to be viable, just not as overpowered as it is now.
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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Gouge Away » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:29 am

I don’t expect you to feel guilt! But I hope you understand the frustration to make a new character I’m excited about and then see oh, it will be a 10 level class now. So I’ll set it aside until I see if the build works or not. It’s cool. Literally, easy come easy go- it was a free character I played for one day and I’ll have another normal award soon enough if it doesn’t work out. It's Arelith, not the first or last time this will happen.

If you say 5 levels will still work, great. But building on Arelith is a one-way trip so this stuff can be a little jarring, you know? Maybe it’s just best to spring it on us when it happens rather than allude to something like that coming down the pike. It’s kinda rough to plan a build with that kind of anticipation!

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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Complex » Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:06 pm

Kenji wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:16 am
Wild Dorf Barb/WM: GMW Scim, 13-20 threat range (40% crit rate vs low AC targets, non-div casters, etc)
160*2 dmg on the first flurry with a 16% chance of that happening
160 + 53 dmg on the first flurry with a 48% chance of that happening
53*2 dmg on the first flurry with a 36% chance of that happening

190.52 average dmg on the first flurry vs 229 avg dmg from 1 lance charge.
320 crit dmg at 16% chance vs 276 lance crit dmg at 15% chance for cavs
Barb/WM has AoE fear that can be negated by clarity.
Barb/WM can continue to attack or chase.
Cav doesn't have KD or stun in the case of Lance

I'd say from the above comparison, that 1.5 seconds of KD (actually a 5% chance of failure since 1 is an auto-fail) against a caster without follow-up damage (provided Spirited Charge works as intended, which is another topic) isn't as bad as you put it. There are worse things out there available right now which I won't delve much into.
I don't find the issue to be directly tied to the Cavalier's power by itself, but with a KD that you can't immunize against. Even if it lasts 1.5 seconds (or 3 depending on the weapon), it is enough time for the Wild Dorf Barb/WM you mentioned to dematerialize people if they are rolling together. Numbers are great and I 100% agree that they are important, but decisions such as these shouldn't be made with the assumption that PvP scenarios are all sterile playgrounds. A saveless KD would enable very cheesy playstyles and combinations that would just not be healthy (Barb WM isn't healthy to begin with, and this would be another way to enable it).

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Kenji
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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Kenji » Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:02 pm

Complex wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:06 pm
I don't find the issue to be directly tied to the Cavalier's power by itself, but with a KD that you can't immunize against. Even if it lasts 1.5 seconds (or 3 depending on the weapon), it is enough time for the Wild Dorf Barb/WM you mentioned to dematerialize people if they are rolling together. Numbers are great and I 100% agree that they are important, but decisions such as these shouldn't be made with the assumption that PvP scenarios are all sterile playgrounds. A saveless KD would enable very cheesy playstyles and combinations that would just not be healthy (Barb WM isn't healthy to begin with, and this would be another way to enable it).
There are more ridiculous two-man team available on live than the hypothetical Cav and Barb/WM right now. But let’s not go into that on a cavalier thread.

I’ll be honest, people often overreact to any mechanical changes and a 1.5s KD on a 30s cooldown that has yet to have its strength check determined right now is one of those.

Cav’s initial burst damage has been reduced and will be further adjusted with more feedback.
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Rico_scorpion
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Re: Cavalier Weapon Expansion Feedback Megathread

Post by Rico_scorpion » Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:16 pm

Hey Kenji,

Thanks a lot for the answers. It is really appreciated.

Here's a free captain obvious disclaimer though (note: This is just an opinion, it doesn't try to be anything else): While I understand the need to balance around high-end pvp, please consider keeping the fun of "nuking/charging" in the DNA of the class. Maybe allow those numbers to be possible under bigger level commitments or more feat requirements ? Or maybe something as "dumb" as "does half its damage on player-characters", and there, fixed.

Take someone like me, which left the PVP-train years ago, I play mostly/only in pve, and I hope that the sole "class defining feature" of the class won't be too severely gutted due to high end pvp. The spirited charge should be impactful, it's a cavalry charge after all! It should be feared! Basically what I'm trying to say is: please don't make it so spirited charge devolve into "a strong buff" like Divine wrath for example. Even with storng numbers, that would be too "streamlined" into forgettableness.

Aside from that, I love that the class (and its surrounding environment, like the pesky bugs around horses) will get some love, thank you for that, can't wait for you to ship it! (pressure, hehe, but good pressure!)

Addendum/edit: Have you considered loosening the authorized riding-possible areas? Like natural interiors for example (caves) ?
Last edited by Rico_scorpion on Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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