Drowboy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:12 am
So you're a mage with max-scaled (slightly more resistable) IGMS, hellball, and gruin access, that
also has +2 DC and CL to half the spellbook. If you genuinely think losing HIPS makes this unplayable, you might want to reexamine your reliance on cheap exploits.
Yes, now they have only cheap DC save or die spells to rely on. Unfortunately, these are intentionally part of the game.
Any character with no pre-epic levels in a class with Will as the primary saving throw sits at 11 Will (6 pre-epic, 5 epic) at level 30, before the Wisdom stat modifier and gear. The limit on increases to saving throws via geared unisave, spellcraft, and spell effects is 20, making the absolute theoretical maximum for many characters (Wisdom included) just over 30. Even Divine Champion's sacred defense unisaves are subject to this cap. Gearing can take a long time, substantial wealth, and more than a little game knowledge to do properly. Most builds have potions, not reliable Will saves. The same goes for any non-dex build with few or no pre-epic levels in a reflex-primary class.
Saves feats and paladin/bg saves are exceptions to 20 cap, but not affordable by most builds (or they define the build outright, both in alignment and Charisma stats). Most posted builds do not have sample gear sheets, so how many players can not only appreciate but achieve good saves? Even divines are vulnerable for ages of gameplay.
Did I see DC estimates in the low-mid forties earlier in this thread? Is a 60% chance for your instant death spell (versus a thoroughly geared fighter) to succeed too low? What if it's just 95%, versus a moderately geared opponent on his 20 Will - this is much more common than you might think. Clarity has a cooldown, too. Hmmm. I have seen as many as four Wail of the Banshee's cast following one timestop very early in a fight. Is that skill?
Say you're an Evocation-focused caster (the specialist Wizard update just increased the maximum DC by 1): once you breach Freedom of Movement (who is it that said four potions shut off Shadowmage and their kin? do mages open with anything but Mords?), your opponent's option versus, say, Bigby 6, is to make the reflex save or sit in knockdown for about 26 rounds. Not good enough?
Many dexers will be fine against that save, sure, because Dex modifier is added to reflex. They can even go for the combined saves power of dex/div (but look at the player census, just 14 rogue/fighter/BG's, and a handful of brycers (fighter/divine/rogue)). What about your average strengther? What about other mages?
As Magistrasa said, DC casts are not really strategic; they are even more of a shotgun option than the much-hated Barb/WM rage and charge, and are just win buttons versus most of the server in spontaneous conflict. Even in premeditated conflict, you are counting on your opponent not having put in enough hours of grinding and gambling gold away into the basin, or cheesing them out when immunities either lapse or get breached. DC spells are horrible. For me, HiPS was the least irritating thing about Shadowmage.