Arelith

As a player of a Knight, this rework was looked forward to ever since it was announced a while back. Now that it's here, I cannot imagine a scenario where taking this skill is worthwhile over Leadership (at least for Knights). Leadership helps Henchmen and Party Members while Intimdate only affects enemies in a weaker version of Fear. Leadership grants a wopping 330% increase to bounties at max level (unless I'm reading it wrong). Leadership grants the same benefits mathematically as Intimidate for the purposes of getting elected.

Will we be granted relevels for this?

I can. Two words:

Barbarian/Knight.

I'm only a little surprised, because I didn't imagine an Aerlith where Barb/Wm/Fighter needed another advantage vs. Melee characters. They didn't have enough AB? Nope... here's two more against everyone with reasonable AC (minus Clerics).

Any chance we can remove the tie between terrifying and intimidate and move it to.. literally anything that doesn't give a free -2 AC vs melee?

I think you'd consider it a win if the barb flatfooted and wasted a full round on -2 AC

Xerah wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:56 am

I think you'd consider it a win if the barb flatfooted and wasted a full round on -2 AC

What kind of action is this Intimidate 'active'? Is it like using a wand? Is it like Taunt? If it's a 'standard action' as it's written in the update thread it will not flat-foot the barbarian, just throw them off the Expertise they probably arent using in pvp anyway, and if it's Taunt-like action then it will also flat-foot them.

Flower Power wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:37 am

I can. Two words:

Barbarian/Knight.

If you are a Knight there is no reason at all to take Intimidate over Leadership. Which is why I asked about a relevel.

Barbarian. Knight.

Both Terrifying Rage and Knight-Fear can scale off intimidate; which, with the new mechanics, means that you can get out a SUBSTANTIAL amount of debuffs out off a single skill now while remaining a VERY frightening offensive fighter.

Flower Power wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:16 am

Barbarian. Knight.

Both Terrifying Rage and Knight-Fear can scale off intimidate; which, with the new mechanics, means that you can get out a SUBSTANTIAL amount of debuffs out off a single skill now while remaining a VERY frightening offensive fighter.

Ok, but outside of that one synergy, as a Knight you won't be taking Intimidate unless you just really feel like being a debuffer. A poor debuffer.

Maladus wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:20 am

Flower Power wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:16 am

Barbarian. Knight.

Both Terrifying Rage and Knight-Fear can scale off intimidate; which, with the new mechanics, means that you can get out a SUBSTANTIAL amount of debuffs out off a single skill now while remaining a VERY frightening offensive fighter.

Ok, but outside of that one synergy, as a Knight you won't be taking Intimidate unless you just really feel like being a debuffer. A poor debuffer.

... What?

A Barbarian/PDK can drop -8 AC, -6 AB/Saves, +15% damage vulnerability, +20% arcane spell failure with just 2 Standard Actions (and 2 Free Actions.) Ontop of being impossible to shake off due to having multiple sources of microstuns and ragespeed, and still being able to hit like a truck because you're a barbarian. And you can buff your team mates.

outside that one synergy

To Flower power: He is speaking about non barbarians using the skill intimidate. A skill shouldn't be for one class only, so that begs the question of its worth for other classes on their own, and here in particular for the knight as intimidate and leadership are in direct competition with one another, and leadership wtfpwns intimidate in terms of worth aside from flavor/playstyle. OP didn't even mention access to the whole mercenaries help with leadership too.

OBVIOUSLY intimidate couldn't be made too useful due to the barb rage scaling off it too, but still, that's a bit of a disappointment, even more on a standard action.

I should add that alongside this I decided to make it the primary go-to skill for future in game NPC social skills checks, and so will be using it more often in future.

Really it wasn't possible to give it greater utility without either making it a serious buff to barbarians, or reworking the class not to require it.

Still, it's a nice battlefield ability, when playing in a party against large groups. Definitely much less useful in 1on1 level 30 PvP, but I'm not unhappy about that.

Overall I'm really happy with how the skill project has gone over the last years, all those skills that were generally seen as a waste of space now give some real options, and with Intimidate, this is less a rework and more the addition of extra features.

I would have liked to do something with perform too, ideally, but for now I'd rather just bring this project to a close, offer the promised rebuilds, then hopefully leave such mechanics alone for a good long while - these last few years have been relentless.

Irongron wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:59 am

I would have liked to do something with perform too, ideally, but for now I'd rather just bring this project to a close, offer the promised rebuilds, then hopefully leave such mechanics alone for a good long while - these last few years have been relentless.

Oof. Pipe dream gone!


As far as Intimidate goes, this new ability is ruthless in the right scenario. Most melee characters, whose AC you most likely want to decrease, rarely take Concentration. Even if so, never does one pump it up with +2's. The action economy for this ability is insane with 3+ targets. It allows flexibility to switch to the target who lost AC.

However, it kinda sucks with its current length. It's like a mediocre Taunt when against 2 or less targets. 6 potential AC vs. only 2 certain AC. I say its length just needs a boost to 7 or 8.

Now it may just be me, but I have checked twice now, even relogged and for the life of me I cannot find intimidate in my radial menu despite being in the 40's of intimidate at present.
Any clues to if it's pending on a reset or what gives?

Character name: Marley Goodman
Server: Guldorand

DeepDarkTruth wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:13 pm

Now it may just be me, but I have checked twice now, even relogged and for the life of me I cannot find intimidate in my radial menu despite being in the 40's of intimidate at present.
Any clues to if it's pending on a reset or what gives?

Character name: Marley Goodman
Server: Guldorand

Pending a reset

Irongron wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:59 am

I would have liked to do something with perform too, ideally, but for now I'd rather just bring this project to a close, offer the promised rebuilds, then hopefully leave such mechanics alone for a good long while - these last few years have been relentless.

So does that mean that relevels are incoming in the future?

This is from the update,

Irongron wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:59 am

Note: This is our last planned skill rework. We will be re-balancing class skills and skill gain per level for all classes, which will follow with a subsequent re-level for any affected characters.

Ah, I must have missed that.

/facepalm

Even for a none barbarian... the difference between leadership and intimidate is essentially -2 AC debuff traded for the gold boost for bounties, which I think is a legit okay trade-off. Also, unlike Taunt, and unless someone corrects me, this does not flat-foot the character (just kicks them off the expertise) and affects all hostiles in a radius (how long is this radius, I'm curious?) so I think it's pretty good for Knights and swashbucklers who care more about their power cap potential than their gold income. Needless to say it's already good for barbarians anyway so now even more.

Henchmen are bad. I really dont recommend taking Leadership with Henchmen in mind at all unless you're a healer or bard.

After playing with Intimidate a significant more amount I have to say:

PROS
1. It just feels good to use. I have yet to face that same bug that Taunt sometimes gives you where you just freeze in the Taunt animation.
2. To piggyback on the first point, it's extremely nice to be able to affect multiple targets than waste multiple rounds Taunting a group of enemies.

CONS
1. The tradeoff (vs. Taunt) sometimes does not feel worth it at all. As I predicted before I started getting into it, the duration feels far too short for the difficulty to achieve the -2 AC is huge (needing 20 < X difference). You'll need a group of at least 3+ to take the greatest effect, and at that point you likely didn't need Intimidate.
2. Due to the Beamdog issue with AoE effects, you'll often miss targets that should obviously be hit.

SUGGESTIONS
1. Differentiate the VFX between -1 AC and -2 AC.
2. Extend its duration and/or add a tier for AC loss; 1 if you at least beat the DC, 2 if you hit a DC greater than 10, 3 if you hit 20 or more.
3. If the 2nd suggestion is made, reduce its radius. Right now it looks like it affects everything the size of Acid Fog. It would be too ridiculous to help it lean towards more solo-usage while still giving a large advantage to large-scale PvP scenarios.

I am having a blast with Intimidate on my Healer Cleric.

As i play as a Summoner/Henchmen leader/support, Intimidiate gives me a nice button to press while safely behind my partys' back. -2 AC is just a +10 higher chance to hit. Since mobs on Arelith have relatively low AC, it is a less noticeable benefit for a full AB character. The skill shines the brightest when used in a party, though admitted, the amount of damage most characters do will reduce the enemies into pieces faster than you really get to get the most out of the skill.

Still, I am enjoying the use of it on a character who does not have direct offensive power without toggling on Divine Power etc.

The range is quite wide. Someone compared it to Meteor Swarm radius, or myself Wail of Bsndhee/Weird radius centered on self.