Guldorand Vampires

[Arienette]

The Guldorand Vampire Crypts are an old favorite dungeon of mine from my first Arelith character and from my time as a Guldorander pre-Fort City changes.

Back when it was a 30 second walk from Westcliff, it got a lot of traffic from writ workers, higher-level Guldorand natives who wanted to pop-out and grab some quick XP/gold, and so on.

Now it has moved to a slightly out of the way and semi-hidden location; I believe the mobs got a bit of an update around that time. I have been running this dungeon with some frequency the last week or so and have some observations.

1. It seems that this dungeon is extremely low-traffic. Like, very low. I think in addition to its off-the-path location, I think the following contribute to its unpopularity. Perhaps some hints could be placed; some spooky signs, coffins, skeletons, or something to sort of guide people to the valley and into the cave.

2. The overall gold take is good; the mob drops, along with the the 4 chests, means its profitable (at least for my character). However, I have never found anything expensive/rare or even interesting in these chests. They seem to be predisposed to contain poisons and darts/ammunition. Its not uncommon for me to open one and find 2-3 poisons and 2-3 ammunition bundles, and nothing else. Perhaps this is just random/bad luck but it does seem like a trend. (Note: I do remove and discard these items when I find them).

3. The XP seems sort of low for the difficulty level. I am getting 10-15 XP per mob on my character, and I can think of several places where you get the same or more XP from less dangerous enemies.

4. The locked doors. On each server reset, the multiple doors are locked with a DC35 lock. These doors are not side paths or optional rooms; you need to unlock them to progress. All my characters can manage locks, but I imagine a lot of folks encounter this and never come back. As I am writing this, it occurs to me I am not sure if they are bashable or not.

[Curve]

This is one of my favorite dungeons on Arelith too. Before new Guldorand this dungeon was able to be circled by portaling to the Skull Crag area, only one transition away from the entrance. Now it has become a one and done. This one factor is why I don't go there much anymore. I have to think about maximizing my time on Arelith these days.

1. It seems that this dungeon is extremely low-traffic. Like, very low. I think in addition to its off-the-path location, I think the following contribute to its unpopularity. Perhaps some hints could be placed; some spooky signs, coffins, skeletons, or something to sort of guide people to the valley and into the cave.

I don't see the low traffic as a problem. I like having dungeons that are more likely to be full of monsters and less likely to be found empty, raided a few minutes previous. Arelith is very populated these days and there are times when I have a hard time finding a dungeon that is not 'taken.' I don't say this to take away from your suggestion. I just don't mind the underlying reason for it.

3. The XP seems sort of low for the difficulty level. I am getting 10-15 XP per mob on my character, and I can think of several places where you get the same or more XP from less dangerous enemies.

It's hard to judge this without knowing your level/ELC.

4. The locked doors. On each server reset, the multiple doors are locked with a DC35 lock. These doors are not side paths or optional rooms; you need to unlock them to progress. All my characters can manage locks, but I imagine a lot of folks encounter this and never come back. As I am writing this, it occurs to me I am not sure if they are bashable or not.

I like this, personally. I like needing X skill to be able to access some places.

I think this is one of the top tier dungeons on the server. Often slept on too.

[AstralUniverse]

I love that place. It is close to a portal. I dont think the traffic is that low. Maybe the exp per mob could be toned up just slightly to match other stuff in similar level range but otherwise the place is great imo.

[Morgy]

Great dungeon, as said. Easy to reach and a portal at the end. I love fighting undead, so it's always been a favourite.

[magistrasa]

4. The locked doors. On each server reset, the multiple doors are locked with a DC35 lock. These doors are not side paths or optional rooms; you need to unlock them to progress. All my characters can manage locks, but I imagine a lot of folks encounter this and never come back. As I am writing this, it occurs to me I am not sure if they are bashable or not.

This has basically been the extent of my experience with the place, sad as it is. They are not bashable. I walked around the whole area looking for a lever to flip before eventually just giving up. I still have this writ, too!

[Arienette]

The good news is, they only lock on reset. Once anyone unlocks them, they stay unlocked. So don’t give up.

[Ordo.Lupus]

The good news is, they only lock on reset. Once anyone unlocks them, they stay unlocked. So don’t give up.

This is effectively saying that they are off limits to the majority of base classes. I don't recall that they can be bashed nor knock'ed.
It would be something completely different if you had to find a key or lever in another part of the dungeon. Or that doors were locked during daylight hours (would make sense that bloodsuckers want privacy during their sleep).

[AstralUniverse]

4. The locked doors. On each server reset, the multiple doors are locked with a DC35 lock. These doors are not side paths or optional rooms; you need to unlock them to progress. All my characters can manage locks, but I imagine a lot of folks encounter this and never come back. As I am writing this, it occurs to me I am not sure if they are bashable or not.

This has basically been the extent of my experience with the place, sad as it is. They are not bashable. I walked around the whole area looking for a lever to flip before eventually just giving up. I still have this writ, too!

One time I went there on a character that actually can unlock these doors, but I spawned something behind the door and it had this cold aura, so I could no longer get a take 20 out of combat and I had to leave and let the screen despawn.

[chris a gogo]

I ran this dungeon alot when leveling up my wizard that took some cross classed open lock and skill gear.
You only need 15 points to get past the doors you can just enchant a few items/invest in lock picks and your golden with a minor skill point investment.

by Ordo.Lupus » 22 Apr 2021 06:16

Arienette wrote: ↑21 Apr 2021 23:40
The good news is, they only lock on reset. Once anyone unlocks them, they stay unlocked. So don’t give up.
This is effectively saying that they are off limits to the majority of base classes. I don't recall that they can be bashed nor knock'ed.
It would be something completely different if you had to find a key or lever in another part of the dungeon. Or that doors were locked during daylight hours (would make sense that bloodsuckers want privacy during their sleep).

No whats it's saying is it's off limits to characters that have no skill at adventuring.
If your character has no adventuring skills like searching, lock picking basic skills an adventurer needs, then your character isn't an adventurer and shouldn't be able to get to places that adventurers can.
I love the fact there are places like this on the server that stop characters that have no adventuring skills dead in there tracks.

[Flower Power]

I ran this dungeon alot when leveling up my wizard that took some cross classed open lock and skill gear.
You only need 15 points to get past the doors you can just enchant a few items/invest in lock picks and your golden with a minor skill point investment.

by Ordo.Lupus » 22 Apr 2021 06:16

Arienette wrote: ↑21 Apr 2021 23:40
The good news is, they only lock on reset. Once anyone unlocks them, they stay unlocked. So don’t give up.
This is effectively saying that they are off limits to the majority of base classes. I don't recall that they can be bashed nor knock'ed.
It would be something completely different if you had to find a key or lever in another part of the dungeon. Or that doors were locked during daylight hours (would make sense that bloodsuckers want privacy during their sleep).

No whats it's saying is it's off limits to characters that have no skill at adventuring.
If your character has no adventuring skills like searching, lock picking basic skills an adventurer needs, then your character isn't an adventurer and shouldn't be able to get to places that adventurers can.
I love the fact there are places like this on the server that stop characters that have no adventuring skills dead in there tracks.

I'm sorry, but this reads a lot like "you didn't invest 10-20% of your character's potential skillpoint loadout (on a server with a lot of added skillpoint bloat) on a lot of different builds so you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy content that isn't even thematic to the builds that can actually afford that investment"

And, uh. Yeah, no. That's not great design.

[Curve]

Incase anyone was unaware it is a really good idea to put 1 cross classed skill point into Disable Traps and Open Locks. If you do this and at some point pay an enchanter for items with those skills on them you can open most locks on the server. It's a good style.

[Arienette]

I ran this dungeon alot when leveling up my wizard that took some cross classed open lock and skill gear.
You only need 15 points to get past the doors you can just enchant a few items/invest in lock picks and your golden with a minor skill point investment.

by Ordo.Lupus » 22 Apr 2021 06:16

Arienette wrote: ↑21 Apr 2021 23:40
The good news is, they only lock on reset. Once anyone unlocks them, they stay unlocked. So don’t give up.
This is effectively saying that they are off limits to the majority of base classes. I don't recall that they can be bashed nor knock'ed.
It would be something completely different if you had to find a key or lever in another part of the dungeon. Or that doors were locked during daylight hours (would make sense that bloodsuckers want privacy during their sleep).

No whats it's saying is it's off limits to characters that have no skill at adventuring.
If your character has no adventuring skills like searching, lock picking basic skills an adventurer needs, then your character isn't an adventurer and shouldn't be able to get to places that adventurers can.
I love the fact there are places like this on the server that stop characters that have no adventuring skills dead in there tracks.

I'm sorry, but this reads a lot like "you didn't invest 10-20% of your character's potential skillpoint loadout (on a server with a lot of added skillpoint bloat) on a lot of different builds so you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy content that isn't even thematic to the builds that can actually afford that investment"

And, uh. Yeah, no. That's not great design.

In my OP, I called out the locked doors as a potential problem with the dungeon. But as another has said, you don't need to put a ton of points into these skills to get by.

With 1, 2, or 3 points in Open Locks and Disable traps, you can open the vast majority of locked things in the game world, including endgame runic chests.

The locks in this particular dungeon are 35 DC. You take 20 on the rolls as long as you are out of combat. So all you need is 15 points. Say you put 1 point in OL, then you have a DEX bonus of 4. Thats 5 or 25 total. Add in some Gloves of Skill, a Dungeon Delvers cloak, a couple rings with +2 OL on them and you are good to go.

You can push this up into the point where you can handle DC 50's with a little planning.

[Ordo.Lupus]

Forcing player to invest into OL and/OR DT is a bad approach. Just getting 1 hard rank in OL still has you sacrifice 2 skill points. And you must have 1 hard rank in order to benefit from gear bonus, Take20 and tools. This is pretty taxing for classes who don't get that many skill points per level. Not everyone is playing class combos with literal oceans of skill points and class skills available.

It's kinda equivalent to mandating that every player must invest into Spot skill at each level. Otherwise they will have limited Field of View, larger amount of Fog of War or potentially periodic blindness effect. Sure you can get gear to help you see better. But in order to benefit you must invest using you limited ressources.

[Morgy]

Forcing player to invest into OL and/OR DT is a bad approach. Just getting 1 hard rank in OL still has you sacrifice 2 skill points. And you must have 1 hard rank in order to benefit from gear bonus, Take20 and tools. This is pretty taxing for classes who don't get that many skill points per level. Not everyone is playing class combos with literal oceans of skill points and class skills available.

It's kinda equivalent to mandating that every player must invest into Spot skill at each level. Otherwise they will have limited Field of View, larger amount of Fog of War or potentially periodic blindness effect. Sure you can get gear to help you see better. But in order to benefit you must invest using you limited ressources.

It really isn't much of an investment for the benefit.

[Draco]

It really isn't much of an investment for the benefit.

It's not much of a benefit for the investment.

I would frequent places like this if they were actually accessible. But if you have a locked door halfway through then you're just going to deter most players from going there. If the objective was to limit the area to the few that have that skill then mission accomplished. I'm quite happy to walk on by and get my grind on elsewhere, though it seems a shame that an area doesn't get as much appreciation all because of a locked door.

[Arienette]

It really isn't much of an investment for the benefit.

It's not much of a benefit for the investment.

I would frequent places like this if they were actually accessible. But if you have a locked door halfway through then you're just going to deter most players from going there. If the objective was to limit the area to the few that have that skill then mission accomplished. I'm quite happy to walk on by and get my grind on elsewhere, though it seems a shame that an area doesn't get as much appreciation all because of a locked door.

The benefit is easily worth the investment. 2 or 4 skill points in order to open almost every lock and trap in the game world? I do this on literally all characters.

[Draco]

The benefit is easily worth the investment.

I beg to differ, for the simple reasoning that there are 50+ other options available. Other places I can go that do not require a skill investment, because my character is not the type to fiddle around with locks. Why would everyone make any kind of sacrifice in order to have access to every nook and cranny on the server. It depends entirely on the character. I and others like me will continue to simply avoid places that are too much of a pain to deal with. It's a shame but it's no skin off my back, there are so many areas that can and will get more attention because not everyone can be bothered with locked doors. Not everyone is making that investment and not everybody has a fairy familiar. Enjoy your vampire area and don't expect a lot of traffic there.

[AstralUniverse]

Why would everyone make any kind of sacrifice in order to have access to every nook and cranny on the server.

Yeahno.

Most people take 1 point in OL&DT because they can then gear it further and access epic loot containers, which is lower DC than these locked doors in some dungeons. A Dex based character doesnt even need any gear to open these locked doors, with one point in OL (speaking of the doors required to pass, not the short cuts and extra optional content). How is that not a good investment?

I mean... Sure. You can neglect this 4 skill points investment and go to other dungeons. That's AN option. But for 4 skill points investment I'd call that worth any day. Especially since most builds dont have exactly the number of points they need for their build anyway, they will almost always be a little bit short or have a bit extra. So most people dont even feel that investment. Just food for thought.

[Morgy]

In short.. Make your choices, but don't complain if you can't do certain things because you don't want to make a few tiny sacrifices.

[Draco]

In short.. Make your choices, but don't complain if you can't do certain things because you don't want to make a few tiny sacrifices.

Not everyone is making that investment and not everybody has a fairy familiar. Enjoy your vampire area and don't expect a lot of traffic there.

I'm not complaining, I'm stating a fact from my perspective, not everyone is going to play the way YOU play. Not everyone is going to justify a skill investment on their character that makes zero sense to the character. If you want more traffic in that area then I would definitely say that a locked un-bashable door halfway through the dungeon probably is playing some small part in deterring folks. So don't complain about there not being enough traffic there and just enjoy your secluded vampire area.

[Morgy]

In short.. Make your choices, but don't complain if you can't do certain things because you don't want to make a few tiny sacrifices.

Not everyone is making that investment and not everybody has a fairy familiar. Enjoy your vampire area and don't expect a lot of traffic there.

I'm not complaining, I'm stating a fact from my perspective, not everyone is going to play the way YOU play. Not everyone is going to justify a skill investment on their character that makes zero sense to the character. If you want more traffic in that area then I would definitely say that a locked un-bashable door halfway through the dungeon probably is playing some small part in deterring folks. So don't complain about there not being enough traffic there and just enjoy your secluded vampire area.

I think it's a great dungeon and I never complained. Time and time again, it has been said that for -some- areas, you will need to have certain investments such as climb/open lock. Without these skills, you need to ask others for help. If you don't want to do either of those things, then look for somewhere else to explore.

And also - If your character is any kind of skilled adventurer they will have picked up the tiniest bit of knowledge about getting through locked doors (reflected by a point or three in Open Lock). That makes IC sense to me.