Item balance: Armor of Immolation
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Item balance: Armor of Immolation
i have made a ton of characters with this item and almost every time it grants a unfair edge when used, it either needs a Use per day, or a Flat Cool Down timer.
the most notable use is anything with high EDR, or high HP, or anything that can just with stand dps that wont one turn you.
all i do is sit with 600-900 hp and keep up the fire shield due to it being unlimited and with not a cooldown, then i just slam healing kits/potions/wands/ etc.
it's one thing to have 500 scrolls that's you had to pay for and go find and earn etc. then to just hit one button forever to get around a lot of things.
I've found this tactic to work with even lower hp builds.
I encourage you to explore the possibilities of this item rework and applying a balance to it so it cant just be spammed and use to replace other means of doing the same things.
thank you for your time.
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
If ele shield wasn't so spammable (for free) at least they wouldn't get the 50% resis on top of the flat 10 reduction basically in perpetuity. Other items like penumbral or displacer beast cloak have 2/day use as a comparison.
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
like 2000 potions/scrolls/wands etc.
they are not "unlimited" you had to earn gold, find the products, buy them, have the carry weight to be able to hold them etc.
while all this can happen, the point is even if you have X its not unlimited and you still had to do something for them, even if its just buying a potion for 50g from a vendor and buying 50000 of them. they are not on demand unlimited with no continuing operation.
to put it another way, buy armor 60k-500k, unlimited for life, zero continuing operation's effort to keep items stacked in back packs etc.
if someone cant really work out why this items needs a rebalance, i encourage them to go on PGCC and muck around with builds, you can see why in very short order the problems this armor faces.
p.s and i hope no one stand behide the "oh well the armor cost gold so the shielding is not "free", based on "life" of the armor , use per scroll value( cost value of a scroll etc) vs armor fee to buy/craft. you end up making gold, buy saving it on costs you avoid.
it just needs a Use per day or a Cooldown timer of like 2 min's.
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
If it was never meant to be unlimited uses it needs to be fixed or the item removed entirely. Until then players will assume it's working as intended.
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13979&hilit=Armor+ ... on#p116390
Clearly not actually addressed since.
Another reference for when the wiki was updated two years ago: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22877&p=191728&hil ... on#p191733
With the amount of input the devs get on things I can imagine something as small as this got overlooked all this time but without them saying otherwise no one can say one way or the other.
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
But is this ele shield at 100% uptime really that broken? This armor doesnt impress me outside of that and needing to reach 22 26 dex to have a pretty standard AC for the item slot is a legit downside. Dont think anyone would use it if it was CD based and I dont think it breaks the game that it isnt.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
As far as the armor goes, it's a must have on a dex/div build. Bonus CHA for divine shield, chunky armor AC, extra discipline, and it has a chunky fire DR. Slap on elemental shield, and now you're making it pointless to use Fire-based spells.
I assume you can also still rune it, but don't quote me on that.
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
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William Bones; Durk Rotgrun; Hector Bartholomew; Rali Runehammer; Daris Blake; Nathaniel Silvers; Mordarok; Guy Silvers; Shayleth Shadowblood
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
Ele shield scrolls should have a CL of only 7. 1d6+7 damage, and the effect only lasts 7 rounds.
Armor of immolation is CL12. That ends up creating a sizeable increase in both damage and uptime, while also pushing the backlash well past the threshold where a defense essence can absorb most of the damage.
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
Maybe it was a bug but was then considered balanced enough as is. It's not like no one knew it's infi-use for the last 3 years.Good Character wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:54 pmCortex was the dev who added the armor, so undoubtedly this was a bug.
As far as the armor goes, it's a must have on a dex/div build. Bonus CHA for divine shield, chunky armor AC, extra discipline, and it has a chunky fire DR. Slap on elemental shield, and now you're making it pointless to use Fire-based spells.
I assume you can also still rune it, but don't quote me on that.
If you're using this armor on a dex based build you're losing a lot of AC on a build that scales much better with AC than with damage shield. Your statement is very incorrect for this reason. The 50% fire/cold immunity is nice but it's still light years away from weighting as much as the 5-6 ac you lose by not going for one of the cloth armor +3 options, especially on a divine dexer. You're only not losing much ac if you are heavy rogue build, and then you should most definitely use Armor of the Wilds anyhow.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
I look forward with hope that this can be brought in to better balancing guide lines.
Thank you for all your time and effort into the Arelith server.
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
The most DEX you'll be getting with the +12 cap is usually 38. Comes out to a +14 modifier. Most div/dex builds I know are 26 rogue/4 bg or pally. You'll lose no AC with the Lightly Armored feat that rogues get; calculation is 26/4 = 6 modifier maintained atop the 8 DEX modifier padded armor lets you keep. The armor is arguably far better than any cloth gear; you keep your DEX modifier, you get +4 armor AC, and the padded armor gives you an extra 1 AC.AstralUniverse wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:25 amMaybe it was a bug but was then considered balanced enough as is. It's not like no one knew it's infi-use for the last 3 years.
If you're using this armor on a dex based build you're losing a lot of AC on a build that scales much better with AC than with damage shield. Your statement is very incorrect for this reason. The 50% fire/cold immunity is nice but it's still light years away from weighting as much as the 5-6 ac you lose by not going for one of the cloth armor +3 options, especially on a divine dexer.
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
I actually play this build and again, you're very incorrect. Specifically on a rogue, sure, there's no real ac loss as I said, but you've giving up 5 move/hide from armor of the wilds and you are wasting 6 seconds in pvp to use elemental shield on a stealther build with 70+ ac and epic dodge. This is terrible tactic. Cheers.Good Character wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:36 amThe most DEX you'll be getting with the +12 cap is usually 38. Comes out to a +14 modifier. Most div/dex builds I know are 26 rogue/4 bg or pally. You'll lose no AC with the Lightly Armored feat that rogues get; calculation is 26/4 = 6 modifier maintained atop the 8 DEX modifier padded armor lets you keep. The armor is arguably far better than any cloth gear; you keep your DEX modifier, you get +4 armor AC, and the padded armor gives you an extra 1 AC.AstralUniverse wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:25 amMaybe it was a bug but was then considered balanced enough as is. It's not like no one knew it's infi-use for the last 3 years.
If you're using this armor on a dex based build you're losing a lot of AC on a build that scales much better with AC than with damage shield. Your statement is very incorrect for this reason. The 50% fire/cold immunity is nice but it's still light years away from weighting as much as the 5-6 ac you lose by not going for one of the cloth armor +3 options, especially on a divine dexer.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
however dont lose focus and try to single target a "Type X" build, a great many builds can benefit greatly from its unlimited use.
for the sake of the server i wont be listing those options publicly.
But as it has been uncovered it does give a unfair edge in many areas of game play vs other items. Anyone who thinks shortly about it can see where it is super helpful in those areas.
i invite everyone to be open minded and go to the PGCC and openly test.
Thanks everyone and have a great weekend.
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
Some builds benefit from it. And many builds can find it useful sometimes in pve, I suppose. No one denying that. But the fact it's unlimited use isnt really breaking the game in any way you or anyone suggested so far.
It is okay on warlocks because they have 0 ac anyway and can gear pretty much whatever stats they want, so they can reach the dex cap and enjoy extra damage output when they take hits. And even on them, I'd consider it a worse option than Elven Chains because of the %DI on Elven Chains which syncs perfectly with the conlock's kit.
It's pretty bad stat-wise on anything that likes AC and stats, like melee combatants, dex or str. Because if you're dex based, I've just explained above why it's bad for you. If you're str based ,I've explained further above - you end up with average ac for the item slot and you've invested 26 dex for it.
I'm genuinely curious on what builds it is game breaking that it's infinite use.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
and everyone is able to post there own views.
thanks for posting.
i've stated good info's as to why it needs to be balanced i'm sure dev's will how ever take a new look and use their own minds and points of views.
thats all i'm asking.
as far as players questioning it, we can agree to disagree and not become forum warriors.
thanks everyone
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
If any adjustments are made... well, the CL was said to be 13. It lasts 1 min 18 seconds. An 40sec - 1min cooldown but unlimited uses preserves the item while allows counterplay via breach. It migth make using the item more clunky, as I recall refreshing the barrier whenever I had spare time, as you may have more important things to do in combat.
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
One can apply 5/- defensive fire essence to overwrite the 10/- fire DR one to make the armor qualify for a T3 rune. (though one could argue 10/- DR is better than +1 uni unless that specific 20/- fire DR helmet drop is involved)Good Character wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:54 pmI assume you can also still rune it, but don't quote me on that.
I digress, the current team is already making minor balance/mechanics passes on items now that we have new properties to play with - thanks to Mord's updates - and armor of immo is one of them. As for the actual implementation of any change will be Soon™
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Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
You spoke of there needing to be a gold sink, well even with EDR and the armor I still take damage and have to down heal pots at 3000 gp each. There's the gold sink. Heal pots, not scrolls.
In short I don't seen a need to nerf the armor unless we want to nerf Edodge monks to lvl the field.
Re: Item balance: Armor of Immolation
As others have said here, this is not the greatest tactic, it costs you action economy, and is easily overcome by a savvy player.
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