Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

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Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by MissEvelyn » Mon May 31, 2021 9:51 pm

Let's discuss Protection Domain changes.
- Greater Sanctuary and Protection Domain now share the same cooldown timer, using one will disable the usage of the other for 4 minutes.
- Protection Domain has its duration changed to 5 + Cha Mod rounds to be in line with other domain ability duration
- Sanctuary spell is disabled temporarily. Existing potions and scrolls will not do anything anymore.
My personal bias is that builds around Protection Domain have now been severely weakened, and that the Domain itself is not worth taking. There are so many better options available now.

Essentially, what it does now is give you 2 extra spells (Minor Globe of Invulnerablity, and Energy Buffer). Energy Buffer is still decent, especially with ESF in Abjuration. Globe really is kind of useless, if you ask me.
In addition to the spells, you get an extra Spell Slot with a Semi-Extended Upcast (DC) Greater Sanctuary. And that's it. It's very, very unfortunate that they share the same cooldown and are otherwise indistinguishable from one another.

This change is akin to slapping a cooldown on the War Domain's Battle Mastery after you cast Aura of Vitality.

At any rate, I hope the Protection Domain power will get some kind of buff, as it is nothing more than a Greater Sanctuary spell with a higher DC now.

But like I said in the beginning, I'm very biased. So let's discuss whether this was a good idea, a bad idea, a necessary change. What say you?


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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by magistrasa » Mon May 31, 2021 10:04 pm

Womp womp. The Protection Domain's Sanctuary ability is kinda buggy so it's not really reliable in a pinch. The only positive aspect of it is the fact that it can't be interrupted while you're taking damage. I'd rather the ability just get axed and replaced with a free cast of G.Sanc at this point.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Ork » Mon May 31, 2021 10:57 pm

Death to sanctuary!

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Duchess Says » Mon May 31, 2021 11:00 pm

It's a drastic change especially considering almost all prot. domain clerics build charisma based solely for this one ability.

Might I suggest if it's going to be nerfed, put it on a cooldown so at least you could use it a few times in PVE between rests.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Zanithar » Mon May 31, 2021 11:44 pm

So, i am at work right now so i will need to come back to this and add to it later but the quick summary is that:
1. An adjustment was need to this domain
2. This particular adjustment has removed the Protection Feat healer as a viable build mechanically.

On the face of it, the change seems reasonable but to understand why it is not you have to dig into the investment cost of the Protection Domain vs. a normal healer build and it is a very heavy cost indeed.

The typical Sanc Healer is a 19 Wisdom / 24 Charisma build. It is done in this fashion because the Protection Feat requires a saving throw which is affected by Charisma.

So, to take the Protection feat, the Sanc Healer guts their primary casting stat and invests heavily in a secondary stat that offers nothing else to the build beyond increasing the duration and DC of a once per day Domain Feat.

A Feat which is now aN increased duration, once a day, savable GSanc equivalent.

So, if we examine this further.
GSanc is level/4 rounds duration. For a Sanc Healer this is 7 Round or 14 rounds extended. GSanc has no save, it always works.
Protection feat is 5+Cha Mod rounds duration. For a Sanc Healer this is 18 rounds. Protection Feat has a Save.

On the face of it, not a bad duration really and not a bad feat until you review all the things you give up to achieve it.
1. Deep Wisdom is exchanged for Deep Charisma. If you do not then the duration falls below that of GSanc making it worse for duration and of course making it much easier to make the save.
2. One of two Domains offered to a Cleric.

Once you realise that you can take a better domain, gain additional spell slots with increased Wisdom including extra spell slots to slot GSanc or extended GSanc mechanically that level of investment for 4 extra rounds of Sanctuary makes it a mechanically poor choice.

My suggestion on how to balance it, if balance is the intention here is one of the following:
1. Remove the Protection Feat and add Greater Sanctuary as a 1 level earlier spell choice when selecting the Protection Domain. This allows more flexibility for a cleric/healer in spell selection including the ability to have extended greater sanctuary in the normal greater sanctuary slot.
2. Remove the Charisma requirement for duration and save, set the Protection Feat as a saveless 18 round (or honestly whatever seems reasonable and viable versus just taking GSanc) Greater Sanctuary.

Both choices would then allow a proper cleric/healer build without sacrificing your primary stat for a Feat that is roughly equivalent to Greater Sanctuary.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by godhand- » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:29 am

i must admit i am biased as protection healpath was one of my favourite builds.

I do not like the way this nerf was handled - HOWEVER, i see why it was needed.

The save roll only triggered for PC's/NPC's in range of the cleric when the ability was cast. This could easily be abused by casting protection domain sanctuary outside range of other PC/NPC - then running into battle - effectively giving you a saveless 40 + round sanctuary.

I think the shortened duration was the right call for balance, however in choosing to shorten it, it should be made saveless for reasons mentioned by others above: the investment at cost of secondary stat over Primary stat makes it not worth it.

Perhaps the protection domain sanctuary could provide a 1min Greater sanctuary (saveless) on a cooldown - say 18 minutes.

This cooldown can be reduced by 1min per charisma modifier - So going deep in CHA - 24base (36 buffed) as before - drops the cooldown by 13 minutes - down to 5 minutes.

This would keep the CHA heavy protection healpath as a more than viable support build.
Cortex wrote: Addendum, the immediate above post by godhand is wrong in about every aspect, as were most of his other posts.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by The Rambling Midget » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:44 am

godhand- wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:29 am
Perhaps the protection domain sanctuary could provide a 1min Greater sanctuary (saveless) on a cooldown - say 18 minutes.
I was just thinking the same thing. I don't even think it needs to be that long. It could be 8-10 minutes like Divine Wrath, or other CD abilities. As long as it's long enough so that it can't be used more than once in an encounter of average duration. That makes its use a tactical decision, rather than a strategic one.

The problem I've seen with protection domain clerics is that the fight starts and ends with them in sanctuary. As long as the solution puts an end to that, and forces the cleric to actively participate, it's good.
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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Duchess Says » Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:25 am

Yeah, I didn't understand why it needed a nerf but trust there was a good reason. However this is just too much considering it's the charisma cleric's reason for existence. Those characters aren't going to be able to relevel to be more playable in a different way so I wish there was consideration to make them still have enough unique oomph to be playable and not feel like they're meant to be discarded. Yes I am upset because I wasted a major on a tiefling here who just leveled past where I can redeem the award... but trying to be constructive instead of screaming.

The protection healer build should also be removed from the suggested character builds page on the wiki, I think.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Hazard » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:05 am

Protection domain was stupidly OP and broken and allowed you to get around the G-sanc nerf and still summon dragons/gates/etc while in sanctuary so powerful it can't even be true sighted.

If I understand it's just shorter now. Still very useful and powerful. Still a top pick.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Good Character » Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:46 am

It's a good PvP tool still with a 1 to 1.5 mins being the common length now. However, I personally wouldn't take it unless it receives a cooldown. It's arguably bad for PvE as the only time you would use it would be on bosses, but bosses tend to have high HP or silly AC to compensate for their lack of mechanical techs that PC's can use.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:07 pm

Protection healer is still extremely good (down from brokenly op) and quite bluntly we can’t balance the server around people who aren’t playing it well.
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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Jack Oat » Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:52 pm

garrbear758 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:07 pm
Protection healer is still extremely good (down from brokenly op) and quite bluntly we can’t balance the server around people who aren’t playing it well.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

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quite bluntly we can't balance the server around people who don't play well

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My main takeaway from this is that Jack is apparently personable


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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Duchess Says » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:14 pm

garrbear758 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:07 pm
Protection healer is still extremely good (down from brokenly op) and quite bluntly we can’t balance the server around people who aren’t playing it well.
"Quite bluntly" I haven't really played mine much at all yet if you're mocking my ability or whatever that comment is about, but I am seeing so much doom and gloom over the change it makes me feel like playing one on an award race is a horrible mistake.
Last edited by Duchess Says on Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Complex » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:18 pm

I wouldn't say that the Domain is bad now. Getting around two minutes of invulnerability is pretty great, and fights are often decided in less time than that. I find this will be more about adjusting to the shorter duration than anything else.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Duchess Says » Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:30 am

I wouldn't say that the Domain is bad now. Getting around two minutes of invulnerability is pretty great, and fights are often decided in less time than that. I find this will be more about adjusting to the shorter duration than anything else.
I don't know. This is why Arelith is so maddening some times. On the one hand you have the original poster (and tons of people on Discord saying it's now a "trap path" which is ugh) making the point that with the shared cooldown and reduced length it's not much different than another cast of Greater Sanctuary which any cleric can do. On the other we have a dev saying it's brokenly overpowered. As I'm sitting on a level 6 I have no idea what it will be like if I stick with with it and won't know for months until I'm in epics. So exactly how is it so great vs just casting Greater Sanctuary and having war or another good domain instead (which would also mean not playing a charisma cleric built for this single ability, and all the benefits being wisdom based would bring?)

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Anomandaris » Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:36 am

Duchess Says wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:14 pm
garrbear758 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:07 pm
Protection healer is still extremely good (down from brokenly op) and quite bluntly we can’t balance the server around people who aren’t playing it well.
"Quite bluntly" I haven't really played mine much at all yet if you're mocking my ability or whatever that comment is about, but I am seeing so much doom and gloom over the change it makes me feel like playing one on an award race is a horrible mistake.
That's quite a way to respond to feedback from the community...

TLDR: Your perspective on balance is bad... Git gud..???

It wasn't brokenly op. It was very powerful, but could be played around and was high investment. It was another way to build which sacrificed spell slots and DC's on other spells to achieve a single trick. And that trick while useful, didn't make the cleric a god mode killing machine. Banish blocked their summons and they could heal but not interact otherwise. Then the timer would run out or they'd pop out to do something like drop a harm and you can engage them.

Frankly seeing positive energy protection implemented as a spell to mitigate the protect domain cleric's ability to interact and affect the battle space would have been better without nerfing a ton of ppl's characters that can't actually adjust because their entire stat line is borked.

It's a bummer to see the teeth taken out of everything that is really unique and cool because it's spooky and a small group of people don't like it. I've been thwarted by healers and I've killed healers.. it really was just fine. We don't need to fix everything that annoys someone sometimes.

Really it's ok if stuff out there is scary and can kill our characters.. it makes things interesting.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Aniel » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:43 am

Jordenk wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:36 am
Duchess Says wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:14 pm
garrbear758 wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:07 pm
Protection healer is still extremely good (down from brokenly op) and quite bluntly we can’t balance the server around people who aren’t playing it well.
"Quite bluntly" I haven't really played mine much at all yet if you're mocking my ability or whatever that comment is about, but I am seeing so much doom and gloom over the change it makes me feel like playing one on an award race is a horrible mistake.
That's quite a way to respond to feedback from the community...

TLDR: Your perspective on balance is bad... Git gud..???

It wasn't brokenly op. It was very powerful, but could be played around and was high investment. It was another way to build which sacrificed spell slots and DC's on other spells to achieve a single trick. And that trick while useful, didn't make the cleric a god mode killing machine. Banish blocked their summons and they could heal but not interact otherwise. Then the timer would run out or they'd pop out to do something like drop a harm and you can engage them.

Frankly seeing positive energy protection implemented as a spell to mitigate the protect domain cleric's ability to interact and affect the battle space would have been better without nerfing a ton of ppl's characters that can't actually adjust because their entire stat line is borked.

It's a bummer to see the teeth taken out of everything that is really unique and cool because it's spooky and a small group of people don't like it. I've been thwarted by healers and I've killed healers.. it really was just fine. We don't need to fix everything that annoys someone sometimes.

Really it's ok if stuff out there is scary and can kill our characters.. it makes things interesting.
What response would you like instead? The issue with responding is most people don't have a strong understanding of mechanics and especially most people aren't interested in learning. Things can be explained but then they're met with "you're wrong and this was a bad change" even when that is clearly not the case. There's a reason why generally the most professional response is silence.

But, to engage with your points as you want us to, I will. Your defense of them not being overpowered is inadequate. Killing a protection domain cleric is a feat in of itself. They have a great deal of offensive power across summons, WoF, epic evo, etc. It's just gravy that they can also make themselves practically invulnerable and continue to influence a fight with potent healing. In any situation where they have a friend for instance you're going to be in for a rough time. The drawbacks that come from being a cha-sancer are considerably less than the payoff.

Something I want to highlight in particular though is the following:
Jordenk wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:36 am
We don't need to fix everything that annoys someone sometimes.

Really it's ok if stuff out there is scary and can kill our characters.. it makes things interesting.
This is the antithesis of balance. This is a reason to never make changes. Why not revert bigby spells to being no save? Aren't they exciting because they can kill you? Why not buff barbarians so that their rage instantly kills someone on contact? These mechanics aren't interesting nor are they fun. They're mechanics that lack counterplay and are simply unfair. There is no counterplay to an old protection domain healer. The one that now exists is still perfectly viable and even strong.

It's a majority of the contributor team's belief that the old protection domain mechanics cultivated in a toxic playstyle that was not remotely balanced, fun to play against, nor play as. While minor tweaks might happen yet, and while I'm personally interested in some form of a cooldown to give it more general utility, the theme of this adjustment is here to stay.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Tarkus the dog » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:45 am

In defense of garrbear:

Before I say anything:
and quite bluntly we can’t balance the server around people who aren’t playing it well.
Probably could have worded that better but I don't think the intent here is to mock anyone, rather to make a simple statement. With that out of the way:

While I disagree with some of garrbear's work ( though I'm not going to be public about it because I'll take any fighter buffs that I can get my hands on, wink wink ), this time I entirely agree with that pre-nerf protection domain was absolutely broken ( when it worked properly ).

I don't play casters these days anymore and I completely forgot what the difference between G Sanc and Protection domain was so I'm not going to go into that argument, however I'm going to go ahead and say the following:

If you give one player a solid melee build ( let's say a weaponmaster, and let's say it's played by someone I know who is robust at the game ), and another a pre-nerf protection domain cleric played by a good caster player who knows how to make full use out of the spells cleric class provides, the duo could wipe out most factions on Arelith. I'm talking 10 fully buffed PCs clearing the Maurs, running into these two. Long shot here. Haven't actually seen it happen. Couldn't convince any of my friends to play one, but I know that it was possible. This reason alone should be enough to see the domain changed. Sorry if I'm coming off as "know it all". I'm just trying to help paint the ridiculousness that was old protection domain.

If you're curious about the details, I can explain how exactly that fight would go down. Ask me anything.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Hazard » Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:48 am

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:45 am
In defense of garrbear:

Before I say anything:
and quite bluntly we can’t balance the server around people who aren’t playing it well.
Probably could have worded that better but I don't think the intent here is to mock anyone, rather to make a simple statement. With that out of the way:

While I disagree with some of garrbear's work ( though I'm not going to be public about it because I'll take any fighter buffs that I can get my hands on, wink wink ), this time I entirely agree with that pre-nerf protection domain was absolutely broken ( when it worked properly ).

I don't play casters these days anymore and I completely forgot what the difference between G Sanc and Protection domain was so I'm not going to go into that argument, however I'm going to go ahead and say the following:

If you give one player a solid melee build ( let's say a weaponmaster, and let's say it's played by someone I know who is robust at the game ), and another a pre-nerf protection domain cleric played by a good caster player who knows how to make full use out of the spells cleric class provides, the duo could wipe out most factions on Arelith. I'm talking 10 fully buffed PCs clearing the Maurs, running into these two. Long shot here. Haven't actually seen it happen. Couldn't convince any of my friends to play one, but I know that it was possible. This reason alone should be enough to see the domain changed. Sorry if I'm coming off as "know it all". I'm just trying to help paint the ridiculousness that was old protection domain.

If you're curious about the details, I can explain how exactly that fight would go down. Ask me anything.
I believe this fully, and have seen the power of pre-nerf protection domain in action. You can get away with some CRAZY CHEESE.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Cybren » Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:19 pm

this is a good change, the domain isn't now useless, and you don't really want to create pvp mechanics that eliminate all interaction as severely as it did (and it still eliminates almost all interaction, just, you know, for slightly less time).

That said, I disagree with "we can’t balance the server around people who aren’t playing it well.": you should be balancing the game around everyone, with the understanding that most people don't play it well and the tools you create to help them and make the game smoother and more fun for them need to not break when the top percentile of players push them to their limits.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Anomandaris » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:38 pm

Aniel wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:43 am

What response would you like instead? The issue with responding is most people don't have a strong understanding of mechanics and especially most people aren't interested in learning. Things can be explained but then they're met with "you're wrong and this was a bad change" even when that is clearly not the case. There's a reason why generally the most professional response is silence.

But, to engage with your points as you want us to, I will. Your defense of them not being overpowered is inadequate. Killing a protection domain cleric is a feat in of itself. They have a great deal of offensive power across summons, WoF, epic evo, etc. It's just gravy that they can also make themselves practically invulnerable and continue to influence a fight with potent healing. In any situation where they have a friend for instance you're going to be in for a rough time. The drawbacks that come from being a cha-sancer are considerably less than the payoff.

Something I want to highlight in particular though is the following:
Jordenk wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:36 am
We don't need to fix everything that annoys someone sometimes.

Really it's ok if stuff out there is scary and can kill our characters.. it makes things interesting.
This is the antithesis of balance. This is a reason to never make changes. Why not revert bigby spells to being no save? Aren't they exciting because they can kill you? Why not buff barbarians so that their rage instantly kills someone on contact? These mechanics aren't interesting nor are they fun. They're mechanics that lack counterplay and are simply unfair. There is no counterplay to an old protection domain healer. The one that now exists is still perfectly viable and even strong.

It's a majority of the contributor team's belief that the old protection domain mechanics cultivated in a toxic playstyle that was not remotely balanced, fun to play against, nor play as. While minor tweaks might happen yet, and while I'm personally interested in some form of a cooldown to give it more general utility, the theme of this adjustment is here to stay.
Yah I mean that’s fine, I get it, they’re powerful. I don’t play one but as someone who’s fought them they’re annoying but not that bad to deal with. They are very good at avoiding interaction which can be annoying. Shortening duration a bit is fine.

But I’m not sure the examples you gave are really good comparisons, to be fair, as you’re talking about saveless, insta death/offensive stuff vs. a gsanc that has a save and protects the caster. Also I and many others do make that will save.. not infrequently.

In either case I get the point your making. I’m not saying don't balance the server at all, but I don’t think arguing to leave dangerous and unique abilities is the antithesis of balance either. I’m saying you can definitely over prune the tree for a love of using scissors, and I see it happening sometimes.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:01 pm

Someone in the crowd: "Stop worrying about other people's character sheets!"
Rest of crowd: "YEAH!"

Someone in the same crowd: "Hey, that guy can make his casting stat his SECONDARY stat and obliterate all his spell DC's for four whole minutes of a high DC sanctuary effect that you can only beat if you throw on some will saving gear. It's toxic, nerf him!"
Rest of crowd: "YEAH!"


I've always appreciated the work that goes into this server, but a big draw of Arelith for me, in the beginning, was the fact that it was vanilla- not because it meant I didn't have to download haks- that's easy. But because 'vanilla' meant to me that the game was still somewhat close to its base iteration, and we were trying to play the game as it came out of the box, not re-balance everything like we think we're going to outperform 20+ years of play-testing an established rule-set.

But it absolutely boggles my mind that such a narrow support niche that takes a full investment to make other people shine better has fallen into the adjustment cross-hairs.

"We can't balance around people who aren't playing well."

Forgive me for disagreeing, strongly, but that's exactly what just happened. We just nerfed a super-narrow, support-themed character archetype that is rarely used, and used pretty much exclusively to make others fight better, because people aren't playing well enough to use an AoE ability or will gear.

And ironically, this is just one more piece of collateral damage that never would've happened if true seeing had been left alone.

Would be great to see a hard switch to quality of life focus rather than an attempt to rebalance everything constantly.
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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by xanrael » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:09 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:01 pm
Someone in the crowd: "Stop worrying about other people's character sheets!"
Rest of crowd: "YEAH!"

Someone in the same crowd: "Hey, that guy can make his casting stat his SECONDARY stat and obliterate all his spell DC's for four whole minutes of a high DC sanctuary effect that you can only beat if you throw on some will saving gear. It's toxic, nerf him!"
Rest of crowd: "YEAH!"
A difference between these two is someone that is RPing a beauty with a LOW Cha doesn't force others to change their play experience in any way. If you have an ability that vastly increases your PvP ability (whether that ability helps 1 v 1, many v many, or perhaps both) then you can change another's play experience. Even if death is ignored entirely RP wise a killbash will make one sit in fugue for a bit and have a major debuff that lasts for a good chunk of time.

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Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by MissEvelyn » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:43 pm

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:01 pm
Someone in the crowd: "Stop worrying about other people's character sheets!"
Rest of crowd: "YEAH!"

Someone in the same crowd: "Hey, that guy can make his casting stat his SECONDARY stat and obliterate all his spell DC's for four whole minutes of a high DC sanctuary effect that you can only beat if you throw on some will saving gear. It's toxic, nerf him!"
Rest of crowd: "YEAH!"


I've always appreciated the work that goes into this server, but a big draw of Arelith for me, in the beginning, was the fact that it was vanilla- not because it meant I didn't have to download haks- that's easy. But because 'vanilla' meant to me that the game was still somewhat close to its base iteration, and we were trying to play the game as it came out of the box, not re-balance everything like we think we're going to outperform 20+ years of play-testing an established rule-set.

But it absolutely boggles my mind that such a narrow support niche that takes a full investment to make other people shine better has fallen into the adjustment cross-hairs.

"We can't balance around people who aren't playing well."

Forgive me for disagreeing, strongly, but that's exactly what just happened. We just nerfed a super-narrow, support-themed character archetype that is rarely used, and used pretty much exclusively to make others fight better, because people aren't playing well enough to use an AoE ability or will gear.

And ironically, this is just one more piece of collateral damage that never would've happened if true seeing had been left alone.

Would be great to see a hard switch to quality of life focus rather than an attempt to rebalance everything constantly.
+1
I never realized how much I agree with everything you're saying here. That's not to say we don't appreciate all the work the devs do - I want to put that out there, we definitely do. But it absolutely is sad when a supporting archetype gets nerfed to the ground.

It's true that the character still has options, but with this change, you might as well just play with one Cleric Domain. Giving up all that Wisdom for a high Charisma means all those DC spells aren't going to be used, and you have far less spell slots to fill with Greater Sanctuary, the almost-equivalent of Divine Protection.

But, please, don't let our disagreements stop this discussion. There's been good points made on both viewpoints.


Babylon System is the Vampire
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:14 am

Re: Protection Domain - Is it now useless?

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:35 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:45 am

....
If you're curious about the details, I can explain how exactly that fight would go down. Ask me anything.
Your post left me wanting more but also left me unsure on what to ask to get it. I give you an A on the points being made within, D- on execution.

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