Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

[Eyeliner]

I like pathless. I feel like it could use a cookie or something, but even without pathless is still my fav, with defiler second.

Pathless is still very strong. It’s only “boring” because so many of us have played the game for so long. A new player might be best off going that route though.

I like my cloistered clerics and don’t find it boring but I picked domains that work well. Boring is in the eye of the beholder so I wouldn’t make sweeping changes based on that alone. But it could use a little more to feel like the wizard-cleric hybrid it seems it’s supposed to be. I’d like to see a few bonus feats that could only be used on spell focuses or metamagic for example. It would be nice to have a path that supported another complete set of focuses so you could fully enjoy some of these domains like darkness where the spells are from three or four different schools.

Also I’m not really sure what the boost to intelligence with divine power is supposed to get you, if anything? Is that just for RP? Seems like other paths get useful stat boosts so that kind of sticks out too unless I’m missing an advantage.

[Quidix]

On Cloistered I do agree they could use some boost, even as simple as giving them an additional 10/20% refund chance.

On the recent Warpriest changes that gives synergy with many martial classes (I like it a lot), has any thought been given to also adding these classes?

• Earthkin Defender
• Dragon Disciple (in a pathfinder book there's a feat that gives them divine scaling)
• Cavalier

[Party in the forest at midnight]

An increased refund chance isn't enough, because of disparity between domains. It would be better if it worked like the Defiler path, where all negative and death spells get a refund chance. But instead of negative/death, have various spells associated to different domains that will trigger the refund mechanic (as opposed to ONLY using domain spells). Clerics will need more offensive spells for this to work though, which is why I posted a bunch of ideas in the spell suggestion thread for new things that would be thematic for different domains.

[Kaeldre]

As a warpriest you are granted synergies with other classes. I want to point out that having 1/3 progression for ranger makes it rather awkward to get the out of combat travel speed. Since this would require a 12 ranger level investment. I would suggest changing the progression or giving some more achievable cookie through synergy.

It seems to me like ranger might have had a 2/3 progression some time past, since the wiki text describing the synergy states that 3 levels of ranger and 9 levels of cleric should grant you an effective level of 9 ranger.

EDIT: After some more searching, the past announcements do indeed confirm that ranger once had 2/3 progression. I can also confirm that the current progression is 1/3, but there is no announcement that I can find that details the change from 2/3 to 1/3 progression.

[Kalthariam]

Can I say it's been what feels like ages and I still kinda feel like the Healer path's gutting has left it completely feeling uncompleted still? I'm not really a big fan of the class features it had being turned into domain fluff abilities, and the fact you really don't get anything at all for commiting to being a healer just feels pretty meh?

I know everyone's all on about their vigilantes, their warpriests, their defilers, or whatnot, but the healer path just kinda feels like it was chopped up had it's abilities tossed around to be made available to everyone, their old ultimate ability now can be gained super early, and there's no real benefit to actually commiting to being a healer cleric.. which just feels unfun.

The nice bonus of being able to infinitely cast cure serious wounds if you have the healing domain was nifty, but I dunno. Just doesn't feel like the Healer gets any of the nifty cool fun stuff that all the other paths feel like they get to cement them into their identity.

[Skeletor]

Can I say it's been what feels like ages and I still kinda feel like the Healer path's gutting has left it completely feeling uncompleted still? I'm not really a big fan of the class features it had being turned into domain fluff abilities, and the fact you really don't get anything at all for commiting to being a healer just feels pretty meh?

I know everyone's all on about their vigilantes, their warpriests, their defilers, or whatnot, but the healer path just kinda feels like it was chopped up had it's abilities tossed around to be made available to everyone, their old ultimate ability now can be gained super early, and there's no real benefit to actually commiting to being a healer cleric.. which just feels unfun.

The nice bonus of being able to infinitely cast cure serious wounds if you have the healing domain was nifty, but I dunno. Just doesn't feel like the Healer gets any of the nifty cool fun stuff that all the other paths feel like they get to cement them into their identity.

I think it would be really cool if this path gave some bonus to how turn-undead works or the creatures types that can be turned without having to pick specific domains. It's all fine and cool to make a "Turn undead specialist" but you pretty much HAVE to pick Plant/vermin/animal to get the most creature types.

Also think it fits the archetype, no? This cleric is peaceful, they just repel evil creatures and heal allies.

[hi chat]

With Warpriests getting access to divine synergy at 21, is there any idea about giving divine synergy to Seekers, who similarly suffer having to juggle multiple short-lasting buffs and a complete lack of summons?

I like Seeker in it's current form, though it still feels a little middling.

[Paint]

With Warpriests getting access to divine synergy at 21, is there any idea about giving divine synergy to Seekers, who similarly suffer having to juggle multiple short-lasting buffs and a complete lack of summons?

I like Seeker in it's current form, though it still feels a little middling.

Seeker is very powerful for its versatility and its ability to do frightening amounts of burst damage. My current seeker build does something like 45 damage before sneaks at 7 APR and has 58 AC. On top of that, very decent hide and move silently. The trick is, you're sort of roped into dipping either vig or monk right now for decent AC numbers.

Divine Synergy, however, doesn't benefit seeker very much, because the strongest seeker combinations right now really don't go for div might or div shield anyways. It puts too much strain on your stats and makes you weaker overall, imo.

Edit:
Let me explain a little, I guess; You get spell failure when you use a tower shield as a seeker, don't get medium or heavy armor proficiency by default as a seeker -- so you have to pick up a class that has access those to get that -- which... can... be beneficial, but usually not as beneficial as dipping a class that has access to say... discipline -and- tumble -and- an additional source of AC like monk or vig. This means that as a vigilante, you'll be wearing light armor, or as a monk, wearing no armor. This -further- means that you are absolutely going to be gearing your dex.

Your sneak attacks, being your main source of burst damage, are something you're going to want to put out a -lot- of. So it's important to pick a combo that gets you TWF, Monk UBAB, or pugilism.(Pugilism being the inferior, but in my opinion, easier to access option.)

So knowing that you're going to be gearing dex and trying to maximize your APR, your gearing options become a little... strained. A strength seeker needs to gear STR, DEX, CON, -and- WIS. If you add divine shield/power on top of that, you'll also be gearing CHA. Penta-statting is.. evil. Terrible. Disgusting. And I hate it. And what you'll end up with are stats fairly comparable to just dipping vig or monk with some conciliatory extra damage on the side that comes with its own fairly short duration.

A dex seeker probably doesn't want to invest their strength up to 13 to start in order to pick up power attack to divine might. Even so, a dex seeker is going to want to dip at least one class that nets them tumble, too -- usually rogue, but monk and vig are both good fits.

[msheeler]

I just worked out a Seeker / Archer build that gets (I think) 53 AC and a 47 AB with Divine Power up and I think 5 apr.

I've yet to play it, but I am wondering how well I can keep up the archer sneak shots using Animal Empathy for some blockers / distraction.

[Kaeldre]

Unless someone has noted it before, the size increase to AoE healing spells for the healer path does not scale the vfx or AoE indicator.

[Kenji]

I'm looking for feedback on the various paths and where they sit in the meta right now (be it PvE, PvP, or RP, if applicable). If anyone thinks any path warrants a mechanical buff or nerf, be clear about which path it is you're talking about and provide as many number crunch and data analyses as possible. Anecdotal evidence and experiences are fine.

The following change is planned:

• Healers auto-empower all healing spells cast (not items)
• Healer path clerics are not subject to the % increase cap for healing spells from Healing Domain
• Healer's Turn Undead calculates all Undead creatures (PC or NPC) at half the CR

[definatelynothealbold]

I'm still of the opinion Healer Clerics are in a very bad place right now.

They Give up much personal power to gain very little in comparison to most of the other Path options you have.

Increased AoE healing range is nice, but it's nearly invisible, and I can't think of many times that I sat there and though. "Yeah, if my Healing Circle was vanilla AoE Range, this entire encounter would have been so much harder. Or even mass heal. Generally it's not even a factor in the mind when I am playing my Healer Cleric. Generally you cast these spells when people are grouped up anyways, so the range increase does not feel overwhelmingly meaningful.

The Reduction of Raising dead or resurrection is less noticeable, because most people have sequencers on their staff for these things, which costs absolutely zero piety, and is just free to use once per ten minutes. Not to mention the multiple ways between Rods, books, and stones that people can simply emulate this power again without any form of Piety cost.

The wiki still states that they do not get any proficiency with any sort of shields, which is an issue for clerics due to vestments. Meaning the already low AC of the Healer Cleric has even less ability to attempt to reach any form of respectable Value. Though for some reason this restriction does not seem to be currently active. (I am uncertain if this is a bug, or intentional and the wiki was never updated.) Old Healer Clerics were for a while unable to equip a shield at all. Game specifically told them they don't have the ability to do so, but new Healer Clerics do not seem to have this script, and releveling an Old Healer Cleric removed this limitation.

The only positives I really see that make any meaningful differences with the Healing Path Cleric are the Divine Favor and Divine Might.

Yes. It is nice to be able to forever cast Cure Moderate wounds maximized. However it's still a touch cast spell, so the Cleric still has to run straight into danger, with a very low AC mind you. To use this, which if you've only prepared one, and get hit and roll either poorly on concentration or run into that wonderful Nat 1 save, all your Cure moderate wounds is gone, so you still end up having to prepare multiples of this spell just incase. (I understand that's a thing all casters worry about, it it is still a factor here)

Refunding on Heal and Mass Heal is probably the best thing a Healer Cleric has going for them. Which is 100% a good thing.. Though I'm still not really sure why the Wiki says that Heal and Mass Heal interact with Divine Favor.. when those spells cannot be maximized? Not sure what's up with that.

Healer Clerics losing all weapons and armor proficiencies, means they aren't fighting their own battles. A 75% effectiveness reduction to all negative energy spells (While thematic) also means these spells cannot be used at all for offensive purposes. And their one decent offensive option only works against Undead, which there honestly is not a major amount of them in end game dungeons, and the ones you do run into all seem to have a positive energy resistance! Why is that a problem? Because Undeath to Death Can't just outright kill undead because their immune to death effects, so it's coded to do their max HP as positive energy damage.. but.. the resistance means that even if they manage to fail the save.. they just don't die? Sure they get weakened, but it's the only "Death" spell that even on a failed save and without protections against it, can simply fail to kill because the mob has a small amount of a specific resistance.

So.. No Melee attacks, Extremely limited spellcasting options, and specifically only really good at Healing Magic naturally. So what does a Healer Cleric do if people aren't taking damage in a group? What do they do if their alone to deal with the massive amount of mobs that are around every corner that all have very high HP pools?

Conjurations!

Before the Sequencer Update. This was a very useful option, as the cleric could imbue their conjurations with all the spells of their abilities. Then the sequencer update happened, we don't need to go into the history of this, pretty sure everyone's heard quite a lot about this controversial update that is still disliked to this day.

Now After the sequencer update happened, the Devs introduced Mass Zoo Wards. An ability to provide Attribute Buffs to your Conjurations because they were not targeted they were AoE. And it went to all casters yes? Because traditionally this was a spell ... all casters had access to? What..? No? Only Arcane Casters? Oh. Well that sucks.

So Healer Clerics had to now choose. Do you use an Arcane Sequencer because Concealment is important? Do you use a Greater Divine Sequencer, because you only get one Planar Conduit a day, and not having Spell resistance on your Conjurations simply spells death for them in any meaningful level of content, whether that be PvE or PvP? Or do you use A druidic one because your conjurations hit like a wet noodle (Except for two specific Examples that are significantly stronger than the other Planar Conduit options) and can't even protect themselves so the little bit of extra AC is.. something?

Oh. Nope. You don't get to use Divine Sequencers actually. You actually only have a choice between Arcane and Druidic. Why? Because the Devs decided randomly that Spell Resistance was too much trouble for people to have to break through to WoF / Dismiss Conjurations. So they replaced it with.. Lionheart. A spell that gives resistances to fear.. on creatures that cannot be feared? Undead cannot be feared outside of Turning, which they don't roll fear against. Outsiders are Mind Immune.. so.. why?

So what spells can a Cleric Cast on their Conjuration allies outside of sequencers? Bless and.. Prayer? Both of which are now Rounds/Level Casts which mean they last (Assuming your level 30 Cleric.) 3 whole minutes. And neither prayer nor bless are refundable spells for the healer cleric.. So, that's a spell slot every time you want to increase your conjurations AB by.. 1 each. Can't even cast the healing spells Monstrous Regenerate or Regenerate on your conjurations because they are technically single target buff spells thus are not allowed to be cast on Conjurations.

So lets Recap:

Can't Cast most of the offensive spells
The Few offensive spells we can cast against select ememies.. doesn't do it's actual job if the mobs actually have positive energy resistance.
Conjurations are in the tank, and are massively vulnerable to outright being deleted, because for some reason. WoF is stupidly simple to get ahold of not just by players, but also enemies, and enemies often enjoy using dismissal traps or casting dismissal spells in their dungeons designs.
Unless your a Necromancer or spamming Summon creature 9 (For some reason) you only get one of these conjurations.

Healer Also has given up:

Medium and Heavy Armor, and shields (?), all weapons outside of simple (Only reason their not at literally none is because that prevents them from actually using the staves designed for them, or even being able to gut fish)
Reduction of damage for Negative Energy spells by 75% (Thematic, don't mind this personally, but it's still something they give up)

Sometimes get extra casts on arguably good spells (Heal and Mass Heal) This is Okay.
Get a Range increase on Circle of Healing and Mass heal. (Again, never felt like this was genuinely useful.)
Get a piety reduction on Casting Raise dead or Resurrection (Again.. Sequencers. Wyrd Stones, Book of Souls.. so many other options)
We get to use respite at level 23! Which is a nice ability, but 23 is such an odd level to get this ability. Was it to try to tell people to multiclass? As early as 23 on a caster class with no synergies like the other paths have?
Infinite Cure Serious wounds. if you took the healing domain (Still Melee touch, You effectively only get 1 Domain as a Healer cleric)
Spontaneous Casting of a few Healing Spells. Useful, but completely untouched by refunds. Sometimes useful.. can't think of a time I was forced to stumble back upon a spontaneous spell because I don't have other options besides buff spells or healing spells.. so it's always prepared anyways?

If you just physically compare the paths of a Healer to.. basically any path outside of path of the cleric (The default one) it's got the smallest blurb, no synergies, and most of it's "Benefits" are pretty subjective, and just in many ways completely side stepped.

I'm still not even sure why two of the old abilities were turned into domain abilities. They were useful abilities, though niche, but they apparently had to be removed from Healers to be made available to every single Cleric Path.

I get it people are still apparently very grumpy about the time when Healers had the ability to overheal 150 HP on people. Those days are long gone though, and pieces by pieces the Healer's path has lost more and more functionality over time, either through direct Nerfs, or Indirect Nerfs through changes to others systems that a Healer path cleric relied upon (Because they literally have no other options)

I still am not convinced that Healer Path Clerics are even the best Healers in the Game anymore. Defiler Clerics are probably better (I'm not a math wizard, apologies, I can't break things down to a literal number by number method like some people can) but being able to dish out literally hundreds of damage twice a turn, while healing yourself and everyone around you while doing it is a pretty strong ability. Even Warlocks get to Heal people for nearly as much as Clerics can infinitely, but from a range, so they are mostly safe from harm.

If you disagree, you're more than welcome to educate me on how healers are somehow perfectly fine being literally unable to do anything, but I will admit I do not see how you can try to pass off Healer Clerics as just "fine" now, when they are a hollowed out shell of a path.

Edit: In regards to the Edit about the Healing Domain.. Oh good..? The domain I'm basically required to take as a Healer Cleric is going to have absolutely zero changes to it. Not really certain I'd call this a positive. This really only punishes people whom want to dip like.. 3 levels for domain benefits, doesn't really benefit people actually wanting to be clerics.

[Kenji]

Don't really care much for the emotional rant or getting a development history lecture from definatelynothealbold, I have enough on my plate as is.

Do any other healer players want to take a shot at begging for healer buffs? With far fewer emotions and more objective discussions or suggestions. If there is truly a problem in the healer's performance, then I want solutions. Otherwise, both of our times are wasted.

Feel free to edit your post or take another shot, definatelynothealbold, cut out the fluff and anger, or don't, and I'm simply moving on. (Don't take this personally, I do this to anyone who does these kinds of posts. See this for reference: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=39130&p=306391#p306393)

[definatelynothealbold]

You want feedback. I provide feedback from my personal experiences playing the class.

"Nah, ignoring you because I think it's just an emotional Rant."

So in other words you don't actually want feedback.

And it wasn't a lecture on this history of development it was context for the continued declining power of Healer Path Clerics, because guess what? The class isn't in some tiny untouchable bubble that only interacts with itself. Sweeping changes to the game can have consequences beyond what was planned.

[Kenji]

That post was more of a history lecture of which I'm keenly aware of what happened (I'm the one who made the changes, after all) than valuable feedback or discussion. Is there something you want done? Let's also stop this back and forth, I am happy to do this in private and on Discord. Forums aren't exactly the best format for this.

And, again, you're free to post those rants, if anything, I appreciate your passion for Healer's path, it's truly what gets me going to bother. But, at the same time, it doesn't get us anywhere and I won't do much about it. So will you continue the rant and focus on how I respond rather than what truly matters, which is the solution to your healer path problem?

[definatelynothealbold]

You asked the forum for feedback. I provided the feedback including all the different steps that got Healer Path Clerics into the situation they are currently in. Information I thought was relevant to what I was trying to say.

As I said in my main post, I'm sorry I'm not some super Technical Analytical mind that can break down every single mechanic down into base math. That's not a common skill. I'm providing feedback based completely on my multi-year history of physically playing a Healer Cleric and seeing the class decline over those years, and the dozens of small changes that little by little chipped away at the power Healer once had.

You simply dismissively wrote it off as an emotional rant, and simply 'Begging for buffs".

If we're talking about what specifically I think that Healer Clerics Need, two fold:

Just as you specifically stated that the Defiler's name can just be changed because it's a Trueflame/Truefrost situation, Healers need to be able to do more than -just- heal people. Because if there's no one to actively heal.. you are a waste of space as it currently stands.

I think healers need the ability to provide protections to their allies in meaningful ways, whether that means their protection style spells are stronger (Not just in Raw AC, or flat Over healing hp) or something more along the lines of just outright managing to prevent damage. (Perhaps they give their Flat DR they get from Divine Might being up to people they heal? Meaning a level 24 Cleric gives 4/- DR to people they heal and it works just like their own personal DR)

I also think that healers need the ability to heal at a distance. It doesn't need to be a large distance, but if you're insisting that healer have to give up Armor, Shields, Monk AC, and plenty of other abilities to try to protect themselves, they shouldn't also be expected to have to physically touch their allies just to cast a healing spell.

Yes. Healer Clerics were pretty egregious when they could over heal 150 HP, and keep that 150 HP constantly up, but those days are LONG dead and gone.

[Kenji]

I am glad you are able to trim down the post and point to the important part for me. Because I'd rather not beat around the bush, just being honest.

Now that we have identified the problem, that is, Healers being only good at healing which isn't enough in the meta these days - can they have something else, instead?

For a brief moment, healers had a boost in Wound/Harm spells as the conceptual approach to them at the time was "healers are the masters of life and death". Players did not like the change as it was, again, Healers getting too many things. Defilers were created to separate the two.

Improved wound/harm for healers isn't the way to go. Healers can still utilize other spells to their fullest potential, such as Storm of Vengeance.

Battle Healers? Maybe that can be a thing again, however, that approach will have to wait until monk rework is complete, and potential changes to weapons may come.

Maybe provide Healers with more crowd control capabilities rather than looking at the damage? Discuss away.

[Rei_Jin]

There were, previously, two big issues with Healer path clerics.

Issue 1: Overheal being too strong
This has been corrected. Arguments about if it's in a sweet spot or not, not sure.

Issue 2: The impact on summons from cleric in general, in combination with the Overheal
This has been over-corrected, with clerics going from being one of the best classes with summons, to being one of the worst. As it stands now, Enchantment Spec Wizards and Warlocks are king of the hill for summons, with Clerics severely lacking in firepower by comparison, and Healer clerics being even worse off.
Enchantment Spec Wizards are so strong with summons because they get all the Mass Zoo spells, as well as a special Good Hope boost to make their summons even better.
Warlocks can bring in summons that are immune to WoF. I shouldn't need to explain how good that is.
Reducing the kill pressure from a good summons in the arsenal of the Healer cleric means that there needs to be something put in place to make them still viable, because as it is, unless they're fighting undead.
Contrast this with the comparative kill pressure that a Defiler cleric or Warpriest cleric can bring about, whilst still having significant Healing resources, and it seems clear to me that as far as solo viability goes, Healer cleric is in a bad spot.

Potential solution: Give the Healer cleric a special "Divine Blessing" ability, similar to how Knights can choose a target for their Heroic Shield, that gives some special boosts to up to 1 target for every 10 levels in Cleric, that gives them some boosts to increase kill pressure and survivability. If solo, this can be used on summons, and if in a party, it can be used on other characters, meaning that they would have to choose how to distribute said boosts. What those boosts would entail would have to be carefully chosen, but something akin to the Good Hope bonus of an enchantment spec wizard, or the heroic shield ability of a knight, etc. are good things to consider as base templates.

[definatelynothealbold]

I'm not really fond of the idea of Battle healers. That's basically what Oath of Redemption Paladins are is it not? I would not want to run over the toes of another Class in this regard, because from what I can tell that's literally the entire Niche of the Oath of Redemption Paladin.

I just think the Healer Path of Cleric's domain should be Magically Healing and Protecting their allies.

The problem with Crowd Control abilities is the fact that usually these abilities require the target to Fail Saving throws to be effective. Or not be completely immune to them to begin with. You used storm of vengeance as an example. It's stationary, highly conspicuous, and completely negatable by having any form of stun immunity.

In my personal opinion, I think Healers should be focusing on Imbuing their allies with magic, not trying to hinder enemies.

Edit: I gave my examples of two changes I would like above, I am attempting not to repeat myself. But I do want to point out I do like the idea of Rei_Jin's suggestion. It is pretty much in line with what I was thinking, he just was able to express it into a better example.

[Inordinate]

Maybe provide Healers with more crowd control capabilities rather than looking at the damage? Discuss away.

I am coming out of left field to add that this issue seems to be pretty similar to the issues I outlined in my Wizard/Sorc/WizSpec feedback thread(s). I think a large problem is the lack of spell selection that aren't just save or suck/die in a meta where saves are grossly bloated. If there are going to be spell reworks to help address Healer path issues, I think the solutions outlined there will help here (for sake of searching, spells w/ effects that aren't impacted by saves, minor debuffs even on saves that can be exploited by other spells/effects and can stack, reworking save-or-die spells to do damage a la Wail of the Banshee, etc.)

[Exordius]

I already posted it as a suggestion but i think a nice way to boost cloistered defensively would be to allow them to wear light armor with ki-barrier.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

Cloistered cleric feels a bit weak for a few reasons:

• The cleric spell list doesn't get a whole lot of damaging spells. Especially at lower spell levels. Most offensive spells are necromancy. This is the biggest thing I've found when trying to play one as an offensive caster.

• The mechanic behind it is tied to domains, but a lot of domains don't necessarily work with a caster character.

I don't think domain spells should be changed up. I think they're fairly decent at providing flavour for what they represent, and providing something no matter what path a cleric takes.

Would it be possible to have it so being a cloistered cleric adds more spells to the spellbook, and having a domain could extend the refund mechanic to any spell tagged with a relevant tag? For example, let's say combust was added to the cloistered spellbook. A cleric of Kossuth who has the fire domain (which does not provide combust as a spell) would still have a chance at getting a spell refund on combust because it's marked as a fire spell.

Overall though I think a lack of offensive spells is the bigger thing, I would love having more offensive spells to work with. Especially a variety of damage types since so many spells focus on negative or divine energy. This would help cloistered clerics no matter what domains they pick.

[Eyeliner]

Cloistered can be pretty good but it's heavily dependent on domains. I played a travel/illusion cleric who had nearly unlimited hastes and slows, phantasmal killers and invisibility spells. Not anything to write home about for PVP but amazing quality of life otherwise and being able throw around a bunch of Weirds with +1 DC wasn't bad either. Again, depends on choice of domains because you need one with good and spammable low level spells... 70% chance of refund for a level 4 spell puts you in warlock territory.

I didn't bother with auto-silent spell as it seemed like a real niche ability to invest in but for all I know it's a useful tactic. Someone else has to clue me in on that.

One aspect that seems useless is raising intelligence with divine power. I can't see any use for it mechanically and it's a little weird to RP around so I just disregarded it. Couldn't it just raise wisdom or constitution instead?

[Kenji]

Further spellbook expansion on Cloistered via domain is unlikely due to technical issues. Not impossible but current implementation (that I have in mind and discussed with a few other devs) may prove detrimental to server performance. Maybe another dev can come up with better solutions in time, but not feasible for now.

I’m thinking about further increasing refund chance or change how refund works for Cloistered and Cloistered only. Can any dedicated cloistered players provide feedback on what you think the strengths and weaknesses of cloistered are?

So far what I have in mind:
Cloistered refund chance are tiered:

• Level 1 to 3 spells have 80% refund chance
• Level 4 to 6 spells have 50% refund chance
• Level 7 spells have 20% refund chance
• Level 8 spells have 10% refund chance
• Level 9 spells have 5% refund chance
• Epic spells have 5% refund chance (Div Fav doesn’t apply bonus refund to epic spells)

These chances are before Div Favor bonus chance (5% + 5% chance every 10th cleric levels)

[Eyeliner]

Just asking, not a well considered suggestion or anything but.. Since they seem to have an intelligence theme going (which as I said above feels like the most mechanically useless aspect of the path) what if cloistered had some wizard synergy?

Like if you dip wizard a fraction of your cleric levels would count towards raising spell slots, though that should max out before 9th circle so you don’t have clerics casting mords and time stop.