Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

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Exordius
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Exordius » Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:54 pm

Here is an idea for the cold domain... make it turn all the cold domain spells to apply the frozen condition on hit if a save is failed.

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Skeletor
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Skeletor » Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:36 pm

I was reading over Ooze's Spell list and noticed you're thinking of adding "Vitriolic Sphere" at circle six.
Now, I'm all for new spells obviously, they're superkool additions but I can't stop thinking, wouldn't it be better to just add cloudkill in there and call it a day? It's such a perfect spell to round up the domain and it's acid on top of that.

Exordius
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Exordius » Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:14 pm

I was reading over Ooze's Spell list and noticed you're thinking of adding "Vitriolic Sphere" at circle six.
Now, I'm all for new spells obviously, they're superkool additions but I can't stop thinking, wouldn't it be better to just add cloudkill in there and call it a day? It's such a perfect spell to round up the domain and it's acid on top of that.
Or, how about both. Swap out acid fog at lv 7 for cloudkill.

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Stop. Ninja Time
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Stop. Ninja Time » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:14 pm

Polymorph Self for animal domain is a bit weird:

Your five forms are:
Troll (giant)
Umberhulk (aberration)
Giant Spider (vermin)
Zombie (undead)
Pixie (fey)

Three of the five are things which animal domain lets you turn, and troll/pixie are not animals.

It's a little bizarre for animal domain to get this as is; could we get some animal shapes added to it or some existing shapes changed to animals? A new polymorph spell for shapechanging into an animal?

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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by fading » Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:58 am

Stop. Ninja Time wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:14 pm
Polymorph Self for animal domain is a bit weird:

Your five forms are:
Troll (giant)
Umberhulk (aberration)
Giant Spider (vermin)
Zombie (undead)
Pixie (fey)

Three of the five are things which animal domain lets you turn, and troll/pixie are not animals.

It's a little bizarre for animal domain to get this as is; could we get some animal shapes added to it or some existing shapes changed to animals? A new polymorph spell for shapechanging into an animal?
It's a bit off topic I suppose, but I strongly agree with this. More shapes for polymorph self would be neat, right now the spell is mostly useless. Mechanically the shapes are quite weak, and can't really be used in combat. They don't really have many uses in RP either, besides memes, as far as I've seen. There is a single animal (spider), which has a very specific archetype (especially in DnD). I'd argue the spell lacks identity right now, and would be a lot better with a wider selection of creature shapes. It's both a ranger and animal cleric spell, but it doesn't feel like it should be at the moment.

That's neither here nor there, just something to look into at some point.

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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Kenji » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:38 pm

The Domain Overhaul has introduced a lot of changes to the cleric’s spell list and, with it, exposure to these non-meta spells that everyone has provided insightful feedback in regards to.

I encourage everyone who has concerns or feedback about these spells to join the discussion to a new thread that I will make to gather all of the feedbacks for existing spells, so this thread may stay true to its intended discussions.

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Stop. Ninja Time
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Stop. Ninja Time » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:27 pm

I will happily repost my earlier feedback on Polymorph Self once that thread exists. In the meantime:

Given that polymorph self is anti-animal, I think Animal Domain would benefit from losing Polymorph Self and getting Shapechange instead. While Shapechange doesn't have any animals either, at least it doesn't have a list full of things animal domain would Turn.

I don't think it would be very unbalanced either, as animal's best spell is aura of vitality (which is great) but other than an earlier true seeing the rest of the spells are very situational and build specific. Given Shapechange is itself quite situational and rather weak, I think that losing a summon or a Storm of Vengeance in exchange for it would be a fair and flavourful exchange.

Maybe also drop camouflage since that doesn't make a ton of sense for Animal as well, if it needs more balancing.

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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Duchess Says » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:36 pm

Camouflage +does+ make sense for animal domain. It's particularly good for cleric/ranger dip archers with a nature theme, as is One With The Land which they also receive. But certain animals are stealthy hunters, are they not?

Polymorph is odd and even just giving them wild shape too (like Feylocks get, just the first shapes) for RPs sake would be nice. As would allowing animal domain clerics of a certain level to take the ranger totem skins if they want more animal summon options.

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Stop. Ninja Time
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Stop. Ninja Time » Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:31 am

Duchess Says wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:36 pm
Camouflage +does+ make sense for animal domain. It's particularly good for cleric/ranger dip archers with a nature theme, as is One With The Land which they also receive. But certain animals are stealthy hunters, are they not?

Polymorph is odd and even just giving them wild shape too (like Feylocks get, just the first shapes) for RPs sake would be nice. As would allowing animal domain clerics of a certain level to take the ranger totem skins if they want more animal summon options.
I would argue that camouflage isn't a mark of being a stealthy hunter; it's an active use of the environment to hide. So it makes more sense for earth (and of course trickery) since you're using plants and dirt to conceal yourself, but very few animals have any sort of active camouflage (octopus, chameleon, etc). Sure some animals have natural camouflage but that's like saying you can camouflage in snow if you wear white clothing and so Cold Domain should get it.

I'm happy to keep it in Animal, but I'd be happy to sacrifice it since it's marginally related if it got something more fitting at another level if it had to be nixed for balance.

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Skarain
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Skarain » Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:47 am

I like Camoflage for Animal personally. Many animals do have camoflage. Humanoids don't, so the wise gods invented spells to even the odds.

However, the suggestion that animal would get ranger totem skins for their summons, I would sell a leg and a hand for that! Might need to give same to Vermin totem then, though maybe restrict vermin skins for vermin domain and animal for animal domain.

Though, that won't happen. Totem sacrifices a lot of stats to get that cookie. Every other class sans ranger have to sacrifice 4-5 levels to attain animal skins. While it makes sense, if given to Animal Clerics, Shamans will complain that they were left out, and druids will complain that their uniqueness is being taken away.

In terms of balance however, animal/vermin do get the increased summon tier, or if they have conjuration already. A spell focus bonus for each feat. I think that may be +2 or +3 AB and AC to name a few. That on itself is far from a minor boon.

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Skane
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Skane » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:47 pm

An idea might be to give earth domain a increased yield for gem deposits, maybe have them 'tend' the deposit similar to how druids tend plants.
Gods can we just remove magic already?

Exordius
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Exordius » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:24 am

Another idea for the ooze domain, swap out poison at lv 3 for stinking cloud.

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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Edens_Fall » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:45 am

Ok! So I spent some time on the test server with a friend who made a cleric build PC to test against my Vampire build PC. After several attempts without wards and with, then followed up by realizing there is no counter to Turn Undead via gear/wards . . . I would like to see if "Turn Resistance" can be added to PC vampires.

I fear this being used as a no-counter, one-button win, by any reasonable cleric build against a PC Undead as the debuffs are pretty heavy.

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Stop. Ninja Time
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Stop. Ninja Time » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:24 pm

Edens_Fall wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:45 am
Ok! So I spent some time on the test server with a friend who made a cleric build PC to test against my Vampire build PC. After several attempts without wards and with, then followed up by realizing there is no counter to Turn Undead via gear/wards . . . I would like to see if "Turn Resistance" can be added to PC vampires.

I fear this being used as a no-counter, one-button win, by any reasonable cleric build against a PC Undead as the debuffs are pretty heavy.
While I agree, funny enough I'm pretty sure that Turn Undead didn't actually get any stronger versus elemental druids and vampires. Other than not needing Sun Domain since there is now a feat for it.

One problem I have with the "Command" domains is that it is really inconsistent. It appears that you can only command enemies that are half your level or less, and I only ever see Neutralize when I have commanded up to my limit. I think it'd be nice if fear/rebuke were less common on creatures that you can command, and neutralize/command were easier to achieve.

Maybe if you could neutralize up to your level for anything that you can command? Perhaps something toggleable for those times that you really want to beat up enemies?

Exordius
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Fire Domain

Post by Exordius » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:52 am

Im loving the fire domain but i think it could use a few different spells then what it has now. Instead of flame lash and inferno why not give it fireball and daltrams fiery tentacles. Fireball does not really need an explanation, its THE iconic fire spell so you would think it would go naturally with the fire domain. As for fiery tentacles, you can already get evards tentacles, and the necro tentacles from other domains so i think it would be nice if you could gain the third one and the spell offers some good battlefield control that clerics usually lack. Thoughts?

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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Kenji » Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:31 pm

With the recent domain updates, please share your thoughts pertaining to domains here.

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Kenji
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Re: Fire Domain

Post by Kenji » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:36 pm

Exordius wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:52 am
Im loving the fire domain but i think it could use a few different spells then what it has now. Instead of flame lash and inferno why not give it fireball and daltrams fiery tentacles. Fireball does not really need an explanation, its THE iconic fire spell so you would think it would go naturally with the fire domain. As for fiery tentacles, you can already get evards tentacles, and the necro tentacles from other domains so i think it would be nice if you could gain the third one and the spell offers some good battlefield control that clerics usually lack. Thoughts?
Personal interpretation of the fire domain and fireball spell varies, but I find flame lash to be thematically more fitting than fireballs since fireball is too iconic a spell for arcane casters in D&D in general. Unless other devs have input on this, it’s a no from me.

Fiery tentacles on the other hand probably has a place in fire domain, we will just have to make space. Inferno is a decent spell, too, as well as it being a thematic one. Red Ropes and I will go over the spell list for fire domain when we can.
Last edited by Kenji on Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by MissEvelyn » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:55 pm

It would be great if monsters that were rebuked (dismissed) by Turn Undead would give us experience points.


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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Kenji » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:39 pm

MissEvelyn wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:55 pm
It would be great if monsters that were rebuked (dismissed) by Turn Undead would give us experience points.
As a technical note to self, we need to take the following into account for xp calculation:
  • turned creature CR
  • turner level
  • turner ECL
  • degree of which the creature is turned (if applicable? Maybe something that was meant to be commanded but henchmen slot is full so it defaults to the next course of action depending on alignment opposition)
And then once implemented, it'll require a lot of user feedback to see if anything is gaining too much or too little xp.

Exordius
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Exordius » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:03 am

Another idea... add Law and Chaos domains.

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Red Ropes
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Red Ropes » Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:08 am

Exordius wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:03 am
Another idea... add Law and Chaos domains.
We've got a few "cutting room floor" domains that we want(ed) to add that are just sort of waiting on sorting out what we have (a nice amount) and being able to give them a fair "this seems different" layout.

The ones we had were Law, Chaos, and Luck.
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Wethrinea » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:23 am

Being a Shaundakul fanboi, I would love to see the Portal domain introduced, especially since portals are such a big part of the Arelith experience. I have not played enough clerics to say very smart things about what such a domain should give, but something connected to summoning and banishing of outsiders come to mind. Gate at level 8 perhaps?
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Skarain
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Skarain » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:17 am

Trickery Domain feedback

The improvements are by large great and positive. The spell list is appropriately themed and Rogues' Cunning a nice addition to the skillset. Opens up avenues for other multiclassing than Rogue, such as Specialist or Loremaster, if you aim to be a Thieving Cleric. The recent, small +2 bonus to Thievery skills is welcome. Helps at both low levels and high levels. Locks and Traps are plentiful in dungeons, no matter the level.

However, all of those bonuses are focused on the Cleric itself. There are no means to help your allies.

If Domain Powers are ever going to be phased back in, could Divine Trickery be considered to function like Bard's Pilfering Poem? To give skill boost to Thievery skills to those around them? Would feel thematically appropriate, when a Cleric of Mask (or other god of trickery) could bless quiet-ness and thievery skills of those around them.

Trickery's Sleep Spell
A question about this. "Sleep: Works against any creatures with hit dice less than or equal to the caster's class level, and affects (caster level + 1d4) hit dice worth of creatures. Empower Spell increases affected hit dice by 50%. " (from Wiki)

So.... does that mean that a level 26-27 Cleric/Multiclass 3-4 something has a 0% chance to affect a level 30 player character? That does really discourage multiclassing. I suppose it will find a PvE use, if it works like that...

Strength Domain
Aura of Vitality is set as a 9th level spell (on the Wiki). This makes it impossible to be Extended. Even with ESF: Trans, the spell only lasts 1 turn/level. It would be a better quality of life it if could be extended.
Last edited by Skarain on Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Red Ropes
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Re: Cleric Domain Overhaul

Post by Red Ropes » Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:01 pm

As someone who sort of designed some of the spell load outs-

Trickery Domain's spells are meant to be a mixture of Enchantment and Illusion. It also has a few unique spells in enchantment other domains do not have. It's meant to work out to be useful for people who may not want to take illusion, or for work with other domains - a good companion to it being the Mind Domain.

Sleep as a spell, unless we change it, is just a lower level spell. I put it further along so its DC is larger.

The whole domain theme is basically to aid and provide cover to... Tricksy folk, thieves, and the like! You can use it to attack willsaves, make yourself invisible, displaced (which requires no spell focuses to be useful), and it even has the ability to boost rogue-like abilities.

---

As to Strength Domain. Strength domain provides bonuses to empowering people's strength. It is part Evocation and Transmutation. It is intentional that Aura of Vitality is at level 9 because its other bonuses are very strong but we did not want to put any of the Bigby's line at 9.

It is meant to be a way, alongside Animal and War to get access to that spell and might work out for someone who wants to focus on say buffing, offensive magic, and other things as well.

For instance a cleric who takes Strength Domain, and Fire - could readily go Transmutation, Abjuration, and Evocation and be able to do quite a few things - buff a party, CC with the Bigby's Line, and even kill people with strong evocation magic inherent to cleric and their domains.
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Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Kenji » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:34 pm

Refer to this Announcement Post for more mechanical details.

I'm interested in any concerns and feedback in regards to the new mechanics introduced by Cleric Paths. More adjustments will come and I encourage everyone to try it out on PGCC thoroughly once it goes live.

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