Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

[Llopast]

My guess is, that It has something to do with an upcoming monk rework.

Could you share a link to the topic, please? Cannot find it for some reason.
Thank you!

[Aren]

My guess is, that It has something to do with an upcoming monk rework.

Could you share a link to the topic, please? Cannot find it for some reason.
Thank you!

There isn't any topic.

[AstralUniverse]

You guys have 55 UBAB using a dip monk class while deep monks have 48 UBAB. That does not seem fair

Deep monks have 49 ab.

Also, they have epic dodge and about 10_ish higher damage.

I think it kind'a evens out?

[Aren]

You guys have 55 UBAB using a dip monk class while deep monks have 48 UBAB. That does not seem fair

Deep monks have 49 ab.

Also, they have epic dodge and about 10_ish higher damage.

I think it kind'a evens out?

And monks can chug True Strike.

[Helsing]

You guys have 55 UBAB using a dip monk class while deep monks have 48 UBAB. That does not seem fair

Deep monks have 49 ab.

Also, they have epic dodge and about 10_ish higher damage.

I think it kind'a evens out?

Normal human monk has 48 ab, elf monk has 49, halfling monk has 50 ab but small size low discipline. So in standard they do just have 48 ab.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I'm sorry to hear that people's characters are getting borked, I know from personal experience that shit sucks, but I for one am glad for this change. Monk was clearly the best dip for a path that thematically made more sense for rangers and rogues, and it wasn't even close.

As for the difference between a monk war priest and a monk seeker, I would say it comes down to the sneak attacks seekers get. You essentially have good monk abilities, qol since you are casting your own buffs (not to mention your slows and stuff will be functional in pve at least without the -3 to dcs), and burst power out of corner sneaking thanks to sneak attack. Toss in some domain power spells like premonition or other equally powerful self only buffs you can't get in wands, and yeah...you got quite the resilient and flexible character.

[Ork]

I can see the argument that ranger and rogue aren't as attractive on a seeker. In the situation for rogue and ranger, the issue isn't that monk is better but more than rogue and ranger suck as a dip for the seeker. Clerics do not need an AB increase to be functional, but they do need AC, CL, and APR or damage. Unfortunately, rogue and ranger provide some of these while monk provides all of these. Changing the damage monk seeker receives changes none of this and also doesn't improve rogue nor ranger in these recent re-adjustments.

The biggest issue for any dip on a full-caster is CL. Dips that allow you to gain while maintaining your CL are preferrable to dips that cause you to lose CL. If I could change anything here to encourage seeker/ranger or seeker/rogue, I'd first look at increasing their AC and APR/damage. Give ranger dips the opportunity to pick up Bane of Enemies while maintaining full CL, and give rogues a better sneak-attack progression. We didn't need to nerf seeker/monk damage to encourage alternatives.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

Could seeker gain access to summon creature 9? I would swap to the path in a heartbeat, it supports everything that I do with my character, I'm playing a rogue utility cleric. Except I'm playing a caster and not melee. I don't care about gate or conduit, as long as I have summon creature I can get by just fine in basic pve.

[Hignus Greenleaf]

I agree with Ork. Seekers are already semi-weak compared to many other sneakers.. Sure they can cast spell and shit, but in all honesty... Arelith is very UMD heavy, everyone can cast WoF from scroll, and yes sure it takes a full round.. But any skilled player who knows how to time shit (especially from stealth or something like that) can pull off nearly the same.

I dont mind if you remove the Ki strike... But atleast give divine favour back its +5 damage that seekers does not get.
But yes, in general seekers needs a small buff. There are far more powerful classes out there. Hell seekers does not even get crippling or Edodge, or... yeah you get my point.

[jomonog]

Im not playing a seeker so this change hasnt impacted any of the characters. I do question the logic for removing the synergy though because the rationale for nerfing stuff now is that its because people were playing it too much instead of using other dips, not that the thing itself was too overtuned. That seems a bit problematic to me, set up a deliberate synergy which people will obviously want to play, then pull the rug from under them when they start playing it because now you want them to play something else instead?

[Power Word, Haste]

I agree with Jomonog. I would prefer the less attractive multiclasses made better instead of just nerfing the prevalent one. It's not as if Seeker/Monk was a top build, it's just that Monk was the best multiclass for Seeker so it is what you saw in the overwhelming majority of cases. This doesn't mean it was too good, or in need of a nerf.

[Scraps]

Doing it suddenly on shaman is a bit of a surprise, but i think with touch attack harms using dex there may have been cause for high dex shaman monks that had high ab for both fist fighting and for spontaneous harms?

Melee Touch attacks are strength based

Give ranger dips the opportunity to pick up Bane of Enemies while maintaining full CL.

Wouldn't do anything, Ranger dip doesn't offer Favored Enemies and Bane only effects FE targets. They could get FE scaling, but that opens up a whole other can of worms.

[Svrtr]

Doing it suddenly on shaman is a bit of a surprise, but i think with touch attack harms using dex there may have been cause for high dex shaman monks that had high ab for both fist fighting and for spontaneous harms?

Melee Touch attacks are strength based

Give ranger dips the opportunity to pick up Bane of Enemies while maintaining full CL.

Wouldn't do anything, Ranger dip doesn't offer Favored Enemies and Bane only effects FE targets. They could get FE scaling, but that opens up a whole other can of worms.

There was an update about a month ago such that if someone has weapon finesse then touch attacks can use dex too

[Kenji]

Quite the reaction to losing some damage while still getting 2 epic feats back, I'd say.

With this nerf, seekers can be buffed overall again. Here are the coming changes Soon™

• Increased skill point gain by 2 per seeker level
• Divine Favor reverted to increasing damage again
• Maybe more, maybe that's all.

I'll be merging this thread with the Cleric Path/Domain feedback thread soon.

[Skibbles]

I was going to suggest divine favor return to glory but the few extra things on top of that seems like a damn decent deal to me. Especially with the CL adjustment to Ranger/rogue which had my initial interest in the class. I definitely want to play this one day.

[Ork]

Quite the reaction to losing some damage while still getting 2 epic feats back, I'd say.

I think I've laid out my claims well enough, Kenji. 5 damage is significant for this build, and there was 0 indication there would be any resolve to the lost damage.

I'm glad to hear seekers will regain their damage through divine favor. Why was this not implemented as a whole?

[Biolab00]

Quite the reaction to losing some damage while still getting 2 epic feats back, I'd say.

Why was this not implemented as a whole?

I can sense annoyance and maybe slight anger in raising this question but i think that there's really no need to drag on a problem that's already solved or going to be solved yep.
Good that everything turns out well.

[Ork]

I can sense annoyance and maybe slight anger in raising this question but i think that there's really no need to drag on a problem that's already solved or going to be solved yep.

I am annoyed. In the case of this recent batch of nerfs, we're left without understanding where the design is headed until now. Specifically with this nerf, seeker/monk lost 5 damage which again if you read my post is a significant number to an already low-damage class. My assumptions for why the fix wasn't implemented with the nerf is that there wasn't an intention to provide a fix until there was feedback, which is frustrating.

I echo jomonog where these nerfs to design-directed dips are only done because the other, less enticing dips aren't as popular. There's nothing about seeker/monk that is overpowered nor problematic within the current meta. I'll be content to know that the fix is coming, but I also think there's value in discussing how these nerfs effect players, their interests in their characters, and the enjoyment of this server.

[AstralUniverse]

You guys have 55 UBAB using a dip monk class while deep monks have 48 UBAB. That does not seem fair

I think you've already had this argument addressed by two people in this thread but I will elaborate further.

AB alone in vacuum doesnt mean a whole lot.
When you consider that:
The build's damage per hit is very low
the ab is mostly soft and you cannot buff it further with items/potions at all
you actually need to cast spells, spend precious time in battle, to get this 55 ab, and you can get interrupted.

Unarmed monk has much higher damage, doesnt need to wind up a lot, and is getting it without a risk of spell interruptions, and has epic dodge btw, as already mentioned.

I dont really understand this update overall since if we add +5 damage to divine favor it just results in a... buff. Maybe it should just be reverted instead to be honest. giving +5 damage to div favor right now just means the build's stats remain more or less same as before (but need a bit more windup to get the previous ab) but at least 1 epic feat in ki+4 is now open for something else. (I dont really comment on the Shaman part on the update because shaman is a whole other case with all these cl synergies it gets).

[Paint]

I'm curious about something so I figure I might as well ask it here;

Is there anyone at all on the server right now that is taking advantage of the Warpriest Barbarian synergy? Despite it thematically fitting a lot of different gods, with the first coming to mind being Garagos, I've never actually seen the synergy used ever, generally because the synergy just isn't strong enough.

Does it need to be a great option? Probably not. But I do think it'd add some more flavor for clerics of barbarous gods if it had enough teeth to make it an option worth considering.

[Wrips]

After playing a warpriest for some time, I must say it feels very dysfunctional.

I'll mostly speak of the CHA variant because the traditional 27/3 one is basically unplayable, in my opnion, as there's no reason to simply not go the pathless route and grab summons with it.

After playing both paladins and spellswords, I feel it's hard to justify a class that doesn't summon but also struggles to maintain it's full AB during long dungeons. The damage without Divine Favor and Divine Might is pathetic and even with extra level 2 spell slots from dweomering and Improved Turning, they still fall short on keeping a steady source of damage continually. Divine Might is understandable for balance reasons, of course but I feel like Divine Favor could have a longer duration, similar to Divine Power. Like I said before, I don't think a class that doesn't have the ability to summon should struggle to keep it's AB on a functional level all the time. This could've been excused before as a quirk of a conscious choice to play a melee cleric but now that there's an official path for that style of play, I don't think it should suffer this kind of limitation. They are also far more vulnerable to dispels than the other two classes listed.

Compared to a summoner healer, defiler or favored soul, warpriest lacks the ability to take advantage of the action economy issue provided by summons, Word of Faith, breach and Harm; while they can achieve illustrious numbers at full power, high dps builds like barbarians or weapon masters can scare them away by drinking a true strike potion. I don't think it's necessarily a problem, more like an observation on how healer, defiler or favored soul summoners can abuse the action economy to keep someone on the backfoot for a very long time, something Warpriests and Seekers can't do. They are also much better support builds as they aren't as hard pressed to slot every combat buff available for them as a warpriest is.

tl;dr: Defiler and Healer are best at war than warpriest is, pls show some luv
In general, I really like the path options, I just think they need some fine tuning to be on the right spot.

Also to Paint, yeah, the barbarian sinergy is actively detrimental as you either lose CL or AC/cha mod to gain 3 damage for a few rounds and now you have dex to gear too!

[hugolino]

What is this about Rogue allegedly adding caster levels to Cleric seeker path? I don't recall hearing about this until now.

[xanrael]

What is this about Rogue allegedly adding caster levels to Cleric seeker path? I don't recall hearing about this until now.

Recent change, from the update thread:

"Cleric Seeker Gains 3/4 CL from Rogue multiclass"

viewtopic.php?f=23&p=318373#p317987

[Quidix]

Here are the coming changes Soon™

• Increased skill point gain by 2 per seeker level
• Divine Favor reverted to increasing damage again

These are really nice changes - looking forward to them in due course.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

Could seeker gain access to summon creature 9? I would swap to the path in a heartbeat, it supports everything that I do with my character, I'm playing a rogue utility cleric. Except I'm playing a caster and not melee. I don't care about gate or conduit, as long as I have summon creature I can get by just fine in basic pve.

Bumping this. For the sake of build diversity could Seeker gain access to summon creature 9? This shouldn't be overpowered. Summon creature is irrelevant in end-game content and pvp, even with conjuration focus. And that's a 3 feat tax on a feat starved class, any melee character has something better to take than conjuration feats that only buffs summon creature.

I'm playing a caster cleric with rogue levels, I hope you will consider this.