Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

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Parad0x
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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Parad0x » Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:08 am

So some feedback about the Defiler.

I have been playing one for a bit now and in PVE it's pretty great. I enjoy its survivability, especially with summons (Undead of course).

But I can't help but feel in PVP specifically, they telegraph far too easily and their counters are glaring. NEP and Shadowshield being both of them (Yes you can pierce one slightly with the entropic).

The problem doesn't lie with the refunds, though having your harms replenish a little more readily would be nice. But its about the fact you are dealing a single, easily resistable, damage type. Other caster classes fall into this category as well so its not a problem with the Defiler specifically. But NEP is easily obtainable. (Potions of warding drop very often while writ working and often times they can be easily stacked, scrolls, wands, etc...)

NEP is not easy to remove either, often times taking two mord scrolls (requiring a lore 80 commitment). But no other spell or item in the game, other than NEP and Shadowshield, makes a character immune to that damage type. (Yes there are combo's one can do with spellswords and their shields + spell combos to get nearly immune). But I feel that this fact alone specifically makes Defilers so easily countered to anyone with any sort of consumable game.

So in order for Defilers to deal damage to an opponent they must overcome the following. Touch AC > Spell Resistance > Spell Shield (Mantle, Shadowshield) > NEP , All of this to get one hit of (hypothetically speaking) 324 damage off. Insert that's a lot of damage gif.

Now this is great damage. I do not dispute that. But like most casters, it feels incredibly unreliable to pull off. The main mechanic of the class....Is completely unreliable....

I do have some suggestions, I'm sure there could be some tweaking with the AB that defilers can get to help circumvent some of the massive amounts of dodge stacking in the game (looking at you Divine shield). However, most of my suggestions revolve around adding more reliability and versatility to give the Defiler some options.

1: NEP changes - Give NEP a DR cap like every other resist elements spell. Pure immunity isn't around for elemental damage for a reason.

2: Shadowshield - Let Defilers pierce Shadowshield to SOME degree, this spell is far too common in scrolls and this is literally a hard counter giving, again, complete immunity to negative energy. Again, the immunity issue.

3: Defiler options - Right now the only two viable domains are Death and Suffering for their stacking effect. It's a cookie cutter issue. Give some domains some flavor so a Defiler could change their harms to poison, for pestilence domain, or Acid even. There is a lot of potential here.

4: Short Ranges to Inflict spells (not harm) - I think this would be a good change and allow for smaller shots to be done at range giving the Defiler some versatility on the battle field instead of having to run up to melee and get immediately KD'ed (Clerics don't get discipline so any viable meta requires a 3 dip in specialist or monk)

5: Make the spontaneous spells it gets refundable. There is no reason, other than code (and if this is the case, I concede to that) that these should not refund.

6: Perhaps give defilers a heal debuff on their spells cutting healing received by some percentage. I will let the devs figure out the number on this one as I have no basis.

Again, this is just a feedback from what I have been experiencing. I hope it is taken with a grain of salt from one player to the rest of the community.


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by WanderingPoet » Tue Sep 26, 2023 3:40 am

Parad0x wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:08 am

1: NEP changes - Give NEP a DR cap like every other resist elements spell. Pure immunity isn't around for elemental damage for a reason.

2: Shadowshield - Let Defilers pierce Shadowshield to SOME degree, this spell is far too common in scrolls and this is literally a hard counter giving, again, complete immunity to negative energy. Again, the immunity issue.

3: Defiler options - Right now the only two viable domains are Death and Suffering for their stacking effect. It's a cookie cutter issue. Give some domains some flavor so a Defiler could change their harms to poison, for pestilence domain, or Acid even. There is a lot of potential here.

4: Short Ranges to Inflict spells (not harm) - I think this would be a good change and allow for smaller shots to be done at range giving the Defiler some versatility on the battle field instead of having to run up to melee and get immediately KD'ed (Clerics don't get discipline so any viable meta requires a 3 dip in specialist or monk)

5: Make the spontaneous spells it gets refundable. There is no reason, other than code (and if this is the case, I concede to that) that these should not refund.

6: Perhaps give defilers a heal debuff on their spells cutting healing received by some percentage. I will let the devs figure out the number on this one as I have no basis.

Again, this is just a feedback from what I have been experiencing. I hope it is taken with a grain of salt from one player to the rest of the community.

Defiler is probably tied with Warpriest as top PVP cleric. There is little reason for one to ever lose a fight unless their opponent is very skilled.

NEP and Shadowshield are both easily breachable, especially the latter which 5th in the breach list, so two greater breaches would remove it worst case. The entropy damage means that even if you are struggling to remove it against a skilled opponent, you're still doing massive amounts of damage.

Example:
A level 27 Defiler w/ Death & Suffering Domains casts Harm
324 * (5 + 27)% = 103 Entropy Damage (rounded down)
324 - 103 = 221 Negative Damage
Life Steal: 103 + (221/2) = 213 Life Steal

Assuming that you land it, at level 30, you'll get 103 life back and deal 103 damage - or 5 less if they have an essence. This is a touch attack, so very easy to land, which means except against dexers you can skimp on your AB and still land it. Being able to deal 206 damage and heal the same each round is very powerful, and that's without even debuffing the enemy - and something you can keep up for quite a while due to refunds.

Harm isn't super spammable with only a 50% refund, but when you run out you still have Inflict Critical as a level 3 spell with a 80% refund that deals 126 damage, with 40 of that being entropy, which you can pump out (and heal) 80 hp/round. If you do breach their NEP/Shadow shield, which is easy to do, then you do 252 damage/round and heal 160hp.

If NEP/Shadow shield didn't protect from negative energy 100% then defiler would need a serious nerf, especially Harm. Keep in mind that defilers have far more than just harming as their go to possibilities. They can word of faith for example to blind, animate/summon creatures, dispel, and so on.

#5 is definitely a good idea though, Cloistered clerics especially suffer from this. They can spont cast all their domain spells and ONLY refund domain spells, which sort of makes spontaneously casting them useless unless you happen to fail to refund and need it at a crucial moment.

#3 would also be nice. Death and Suffering are basically required to play a decent defiler. Though I suppose you could


If you're having trouble landing your touch attacks, look at ways to mitigate that. Dodge is always lost if the target is flat footed for example - which happens when they're blinded, knocked down, stunned, etc. There are a lot more tools in the defiler arsenal than just

Path_of_Play wrote:Fear, intimidation, anger - All these, the tyrant's tools.
Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
These tools reveal,
More is learned,
From another in an hour of play,
Than in a year of contention.

Parad0x
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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Parad0x » Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:34 pm

I appreciate the feedback on this. I have been talking to others on this post as it stirred up a lot of ranting in private. I think my approach has just been a bit poor I suppose. It's hard to tell what lands for me and what doesn't. So I have no idea if an enemy is blinded or not. Stuns as well. Being full wisdom my DC's are okayish but with save stacking most of them feel pretty useless.

I still think the defiler could benefit from more domain choice synergy that would alter how the class plays but that would require a bit of an overhaul. It would just be a good QoL for the path to nix the stagnancy of it.

Guess I just need to practice more though. Figure out what works and what doesn't.


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by WanderingPoet » Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:51 pm

Parad0x wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:34 pm

I appreciate the feedback on this. I have been talking to others on this post as it stirred up a lot of ranting in private. I think my approach has just been a bit poor I suppose. It's hard to tell what lands for me and what doesn't. So I have no idea if an enemy is blinded or not. Stuns as well. Being full wisdom my DC's are okayish but with save stacking most of them feel pretty useless.

I still think the defiler could benefit from more domain choice synergy that would alter how the class plays but that would require a bit of an overhaul. It would just be a good QoL for the path to nix the stagnancy of it.

Guess I just need to practice more though. Figure out what works and what doesn't.

I definitely agree that the domains are an issue - death/suffering are basically mandatory, which is a shame when it comes to build diversity. I like your ideas.

Word of Faith always 100% blinds for 9 seconds minimum, if it beats their spell resistance. Unfortunately even with max wisdom as you said, it's not easy to break through all the really high saving throws. You'll also want to get enough lore for a greater spell breach at least (or mords if you can get the lore), and it might benefit you to focus more on defence. With vamp healing if you can avoid taking too much damage per round, you can outheal any damage you take.

But yes, practice is important! Defiler is far from weak but it's a bit higher on the skill floor so it requires more practice. Good luck :)

Path_of_Play wrote:Fear, intimidation, anger - All these, the tyrant's tools.
Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
These tools reveal,
More is learned,
From another in an hour of play,
Than in a year of contention.

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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Kenji » Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:30 am

Parad0x wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2023 1:08 am

3: Defiler options - Right now the only two viable domains are Death and Suffering for their stacking effect. It's a cookie cutter issue. Give some domains some flavor so a Defiler could change their harms to poison, for pestilence domain, or Acid even. There is a lot of potential here.

This idea is fantastic. Death and Suffering domains for Defilers served as a good reference in terms of numbers and design. We can likely expand Defiler interaction with certain thematic domains specific to Defilers with that in mind. (Ooze, Vermin, Destruction, Evil?, and Darkness come to mind)

The question is then how would they not step on Cloistered Path's toes? Would the cut in healing efficacy suffice in separating the two?

Also looking for ideas on the Pestilence domain. Does anyone have a thought?


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by WanderingPoet » Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:04 pm

I think Cloistered in general needs some improvement. It similarly suffers from domain limitations but doesn't really get much to show for it. When I played a cloistered cleric, because I didn't have the right domains I never even had a use for divine favor/divine power.

It can be pretty nice when combined with the more offensive domains, but maybe Cloistered can just get new cookies?

Ideas:

  • An extra domain - this fits in nicely with their theme of casting based off their domains
  • An extra offensive spell per domain - many of the domains have nothing useful for cloistered to refund, as they're simply turns/level or hours/level buffs, and inconsistent chances of being able to buff isn't useful
  • Increased refund chance
  • Refunding spontaneous spells

As it stands, Cloistered doesn't really do anything that you can't do just as well with most other paths.


Pestilence Domain:
1 - Poison
2 - Cloud of Bewilderment
3 - Hemorrhage
4 - Dehydrate
5 - Poison
6 - Drown
7 - Creeping Doom
8 - Curse Storm
9 - Horrid Wilting

Unique power: A poison nova would be very thematic, inflicting the poison spell on all nearby enemies.

Path_of_Play wrote:Fear, intimidation, anger - All these, the tyrant's tools.
Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
These tools reveal,
More is learned,
From another in an hour of play,
Than in a year of contention.

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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Kenji » Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:08 am

  • Domain Changes:
    1. Healing Domain
      i. No longer auto-empowers all healing spells
      ii. Increases heal amount of all healing spells by 10% + (Full Divine Caster levels - 3) * 2 up to a maximum of 50% (including items, healer path not subject to the 50% cap)
      Note: Full Divine Caster classes are considered to be Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid, and Shaman
    2. Pestilence Domain (New Domain!)
      1 - Poison
      2 - Contagion
      3 - Infestation of Maggots
      4 - Dehydrate
      5 - Hemorrhage
      6 - Evil Blight
      7 - Creeping Doom
      8 - Avascular Mass
      9 - Horrid Wilting
    3. Law Domain
      Domain power is also a smite button (much like Good/Evil domain)

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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by AstralUniverse » Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:19 pm

Kenji wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 11:08 am

Healing Domain
i. No longer auto-empowers all healing spells
ii. Increases heal amount of all healing spells by 10% + (Full Divine Caster levels - 3) * 2 up to a maximum of 50% (including items, healer path not subject to the 50% cap)

In regards to cleric dips, this is even better than I expected. I thought we're nuking healing domain for cleric dip builds but this nerf is actually more reasonable than what I suggested and leaves the domain still optimal for those builds. It boosts heal pot from 155 to 186 and critical wounds from 66 to 79. These are meaningful but just that. Meaningful. I like it.

I still feel like as a deep cleric that is not limited to death+suffering like defiler is, I wouldnt ever consider not taking healing domain. +50% to all healing spells is ridiculously good. To my understanding, healing domain was never meant to boost Heal spell and that it was a bug that was just never fixed. It would be far more reasonable if it didnt apply to Heal, and it would still be a domain worth taking.

Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Exordius » Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:47 pm

Got some feedback and ideas for the fire domain. Main issue i see is that almost all the spells in fire are short range and some basically do the same thing only with better or worse mechanics. I would suggest removing flame lash as scorching ray does the same thing and is a better choice, and replace it with flame arrow. And as you did with some of the other domains, replace burning hands with cantrip, specifically flare. Flame arrow and flare give fire some long range options and even though flare wont act as a cantrip does normally it will when divine favor and divine power are running and that is just as good.


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Kenji » Thu Nov 02, 2023 2:12 am

Exordius wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2023 7:47 pm

Got some feedback and ideas for the fire domain. Main issue i see is that almost all the spells in fire are short range and some basically do the same thing only with better or worse mechanics. I would suggest removing flame lash as scorching ray does the same thing and is a better choice, and replace it with flame arrow. And as you did with some of the other domains, replace burning hands with cantrip, specifically flare. Flame arrow and flare give fire some long range options and even though flare wont act as a cantrip does normally it will when divine favor and divine power are running and that is just as good.

I decided against Flame Arrow back then as that is a staple Wizard/Sorcerer spell (though Ooze domain does get the Melf's Acid Arrow). Flame Lash was more of a thematic choice over a mechanical one for Fire Domain. I'd argue that instead of swapping them out, Flame Lash should be buffed and granted additional function beyond damage dealing. Maybe disarm vs save or discipline?


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Exordius » Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:01 am

Any kind of buff is welcome, maybe increase its range some if possible, the adding of a secondary effect sounds good too.


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Kenji » Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:48 am

There are currently a lot of new domains that I consider "mechanical" and "chad" - like forge, pestilence, darkness, law, chaos, mind, suffering, etc. I sure love me some Dark Souls vibes, but it's also time for some reprieve from that design direction.

I'm looking for suggestions and feedback on what other "softer" or "domestic" domains we can introduce - like Music, Lust, Hedonism, or Feast - keep them all Rated T or PG13, whatever Arelith is, of course.

It'd be great if there were any source book references, first and foremost, but that doesn't have to be the only limiter.

Since we might not have as much of a collection of non-mechanical RP spells, their emphasis should be on the domain power and what those powers could do for players.


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Cowbot » Fri Nov 17, 2023 8:03 pm

I'm not really a strong mechanical person, so I can't suggest concrete things without coming across as ridiculous. I will suggest some design space that seems a bit under utilized, and maybe someone can run with it.

Right now turning is not really played with a lot. It'd be interesting to allow clerics to customize who/how they turn, somehow, either through feats, domains only for turning, or whatnot. Currently, there are two feats: one for power and one for outsiders (and planar turning is really bad). Then we take the domains for who our turns apply to. That's it.

How about one of the cleric paths can add their total divine casting level to turning? Then they could crossclass paladin, loremaster, or blackguard and not suck at turning.

I'd also like a way to get empowered turning outside of the sun domain. Shouldn't the undead domain get a similar boost? They're literally about controlling undead.

Or maybe a feat could empower "turn" turns into "control" turns, or something?

Right now I play a pacifistic cleric, and the only way she can travel is by using turn undead to dominate the animals on the road and then dismiss them from her party, or by chain-casting sanctuary. Even with that, she basically can't go anywhere because of the bloodshed required to just walk around.

A domain focusing on peace, allowing a pacifistic play style and RP utility would be really fun. It'd make Eldath clerics more viable, at least.

Another thing we could look at is how cleric interacts with the ritual mechanics. I absolutely adore ritual magic, it's super cool, really inclusive, and can drive RP. Why not give some clerics the ability to specialize in that, somehow? Get a bonus to rituals, allow more people to participate in rituals, have sacrifices not consumed or needed, that sort of thing.

Just some ideas to spark discussion.

Edit: plus I'll just toss in a tiny wish: why not let cloistered clerics rent rooms in Soulhaven? Cloistered clerics seem to be based on real world monks, why not lean into it and let them join the debates in Soulhaven? It'd help keep that place not deserted 24/7 like it is now.


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Quidix » Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:15 am

I've long wished to make an dragon disciple cleric, but it's not viable, given CLs.

I wonder if Dragon Disciple could be included for the War Priest list of martial classes that offer synergy?

There some lore justification from "Kobolds of Golarion" (which I recognise is not 3.5e), where the "Scaled Discipline" feat offer divine progression.


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Sincra » Fri Dec 08, 2023 1:46 pm

Quidix wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:15 am

I've long wished to make an dragon disciple cleric, but it's not viable, given CLs.

I wonder if Dragon Disciple could be included for the War Priest list of martial classes that offer synergy?

There some lore justification from "Kobolds of Golarion" (which I recognise is not 3.5e), where the "Scaled Discipline" feat offer divine progression.

Sounds problematic given RDD gives:
Strength
Charisma
Constitution
Intelligence

Of which Cleric benefits from:
Strength
Charisma
Constitution

And offsets the negatives of being a battle cleric even more so.

And from a lore perspective it's best we stick to what we are, a 3e/3.5e server.

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Peace Domain

Post by hugolino » Fri Dec 08, 2023 5:54 pm

Kenji wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:48 am

I'm looking for suggestions and feedback on what other "softer" or "domestic" domains we can introduce - like Music, Lust, Hedonism, or Feast - keep them all Rated T or PG13, whatever Arelith is, of course.

It'd be great if there were any source book references, first and foremost, but that doesn't have to be the only limiter.

Since we might not have as much of a collection of non-mechanical RP spells, their emphasis should be on the domain power and what those powers could do for players.

Prepare yourself for several domain posts from me today. (I hope separate posts will make replies easier.) Here is the first one.

PEACE DOMAIN

A Cleric of the Peace Domain supports healthy communities, friendly nations, and the kind hearted by working to draw people together, helping them shoulder each other’s burdens, and arbitrating disputes.

D&D 5th Edition: "The balm of peace thrives at the heart of healthy communities, between friendly nations, and in the souls of the kindhearted. The gods of peace inspire people of all sorts to resolve conflict and to stand up against those forces that try to prevent peace from flourishing..."

"Clerics of the Peace Domain preside over the signing of treaties, and they are often asked to arbitrate in disputes. These clerics' blessings draw people together and help them shoulder one another's burdens, and the clerics' magic aids those who are driven to fight for the way of peace."

"Implement of Peace"
You gain a +3 skill bonus in Leadership and Perform.

"Balm of Peace"
Domain Power: Sanctuary 1/min. - Bonus to Spell DC of divine class level/4 (or x/3)
(EDIT: Or Sanctuary 1/15 min. - Bonus to Spell DC of divine class level/4; By the way, Sanctuary is a 5th edition domain spell for Peace domain)

1 - Aid (5th edition domain spell)
2 - Prayer
3 - Slow
4 - Invisibility Sphere
5 - Greater Sanctuary or Wraith Stride
6 - Greater Restoration (5th edition domain spell) or Hold Monster
7 - Greater Eagle’s Splendor
8 - Aura of Vitality
9 - New spell: Deep Slumber (empowered Sleep *)
(EDIT: Or replace with Mass Hold Monster, regular Sleep, or something else non-violent)

* Note: Deep Slumber is an actual D&D 3.5 edition spell (level 3 arcane). It functions the same as the Sleep spell but affects a higher hit dice of creatures.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Peace_domain

Last edited by hugolino on Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:29 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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Re: Peace Domain

Post by Diegovog » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:09 pm

hugolino wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 5:54 pm
Kenji wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:48 am

I'm looking for suggestions and feedback on what other "softer" or "domestic" domains we can introduce - like Music, Lust, Hedonism, or Feast - keep them all Rated T or PG13, whatever Arelith is, of course.

It'd be great if there were any source book references, first and foremost, but that doesn't have to be the only limiter.

Since we might not have as much of a collection of non-mechanical RP spells, their emphasis should be on the domain power and what those powers could do for players.

Prepare yourself for several domain posts from me today. (I hope separate posts will make replies easier.) Here is the first one.

PEACE DOMAIN

D&D 5th Edition: "The balm of peace thrives at the heart of healthy communities, between friendly nations, and in the souls of the kindhearted. The gods of peace inspire people of all sorts to resolve conflict and to stand up against those forces that try to prevent peace from flourishing..."

"Clerics of the Peace Domain preside over the signing of treaties, and they are often asked to arbitrate in disputes. These clerics' blessings draw people together and help them shoulder one another's burdens, and the clerics' magic aids those who are driven to fight for the way of peace."

"Implement of Peace"
You gain a +3 skill bonus in Leadership and Performance.

"Balm of Peace"
Domain Power: Sanctuary 1/min. - Bonus to Spell DC of divine class level/4 (or x/3)

1 - Aid (5th edition domain spell)
2 - Prayer
3 - Slow
4 - Invisibility Sphere
5 - Greater Sanctuary
6 - Greater Restoration (5th edition domain spell)
7 - Greater Eagle’s Splendor
8 - Aura of Vitality
9 - New spell: Deep Slumber (empowered Sleep *)

* Note: Deep Slumber is an actual D&D 3.5 edition spell (level 3 arcane). It functions the same as the Sleep spell but affects a higher hit dice of creatures.

A few personal observations
I'd guess we are moving away from high DC sanctuary + greater sanc combos that make the cleric invulnerable after healer path got the nerf for these invulnerabilities.
Reason why greater resto is 7th circle is because it's too strong and requires a high lore DC to cast from scrolls, giving it free as domain spell is quite strong, but even more lowering to 6th circle. Not even Healing Domain has it as bonus spells.
9th circle high DC sleep that has a will save is too dangerous for the server's balance. Might be way too op unless it doesn't affect 30HD and higher.


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Desire Domain

Post by hugolino » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 pm

Kenji wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:48 am

I'm looking for suggestions and feedback on what other "softer" or "domestic" domains we can introduce - like Music, Lust, Hedonism, or Feast - keep them all Rated T or PG13 ... It'd be great if there were any source book references... their emphasis should be on the domain power and what those powers could do for players.

DESIRE DOMAIN
(EDIT: Domain renamed from the original "Lust" due to feedback.)

A Cleric of the Desire Domain understands the passionate wish some have for sensuality, power, influence, or status.

Eager to Please
(EDIT: Alternate heading - Aesthetician)
You gain a +3 skill bonus to Appraise and Bluff

Anything to Please
(EDIT: Alternate heading - Crowd Control)
Able to Turn Humans and Elves as if they were Undead.

Pretty Please
Domain Power: Charm Person 1/min. - Bonus to Spell DC of divine class level/4

1 - Eagle’s Splendor
2 - Serene Visage
3 - Invisibility (D&D domain spell)
4 - Clairaudience/Clairvoyance (D&D domain spell)
5 - Planar Ally (D&D domain spell)
6 - Crushing Despair
7 - Daltim’s Fiery Tentacles
8 - Dominate Person
9 - Feeblemind

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Lust_domain

Forgotten Realms wiki: “The Lust domain was a suite of spells and powers for divine spellcasters like clerics that were granted by deities whose portfolios were concerned with passionate desire for sensuality, power, influence, or status.”

Last edited by hugolino on Sat Dec 09, 2023 4:31 pm, edited 20 times in total.

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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Windows95 CD-ROM » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:16 pm

Which sourcebook is this from, may I ask?


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Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by great balls of fire » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:23 pm

Did someone say sourcebook?

Image

Lust domain, from the 3.5 Spell Compendium sourcebook.

The inclusion of tentacle spells and mind domination/mindfog for the suggested list is extremely non-consensual leaning and very gross. For the spells unavailable in the Spell Compendium list, I recommend serene visage, and spells that allow bonuses to leadership/persuasion/appraise checks to reflect getting what you want from NPCs. Or, just not at all. Inclusion of Lust as a domain just seems asking for a lot of not PG-13 themes, especially when tentacle and mind domination spells are how that domain is being expressed.

The Spell Compendium of 3.5 includes lots of wonderful ideas. Personally, I like the Sleep Domain, from page 280.

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If you would like a copy of the 3.5 Spell compendium, I can send you the file :)


hugolino
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 12:57 am

Re: Peace Domain

Post by hugolino » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:30 pm

Diegovog wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:09 pm

I'd guess we are moving away from high DC sanctuary + greater sanc combos that make the cleric invulnerable after healer path got the nerf for these invulnerabilities.

Perhaps make the domain power only usable once every 15 minutes then? Or a longer interval?

Diegovog wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:09 pm

Reason why greater resto is 7th circle is because it's too strong and requires a high lore DC to cast from scrolls, giving it free as domain spell is quite strong, but even more lowering to 6th circle. Not even Healing Domain has it as bonus spells.

It is a 7th circle Cleric spell already, so the only difference is the earlier access -- not obtaining access. But perhaps a different spell can be substituted.

Diegovog wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:09 pm

9th circle high DC sleep that has a will save is too dangerous for the server's balance. Might be way too op unless it doesn't affect 30HD and higher.

The Sleep spell caps at the caster's level (so 30 HD). So perhaps my suggestion of Deep Slumber was unnecessary.


stoneheart-
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:07 pm

Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by stoneheart- » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:32 pm

Why is the lust domain thought of, but not the chastity domain? inquiring minds would like to know. ;)


hugolino
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat May 12, 2018 12:57 am

Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by hugolino » Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:37 pm

great Pufferfish of fire wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:23 pm

Or, just not at all. Inclusion of Lust as a domain just seems asking for a lot of not PG-13 themes...

I would agree with that prediction and agree that would not be ideal. I will at least rename my above domain proposal to "desire domain" and may suggest other tweaks.


great balls of fire
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2023 10:30 pm

Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by great balls of fire » Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:26 pm

Here's some snippets from the spell compendium I really like:

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Page 277

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Page 274

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Page 272

I really like the Family one. Could be reflected as being able to provide a Well Fed effect once a day as a spell effect for the party. The maximum could be access to Epic Abjuration warding.

Craft is nice because it could apply to mundane craftsmen and magical, including inventor/artificer types who make golems. Maybe it gives access to golem crafting or GSF transmutation + extra crafting points? Or the ability to successfully start any crafting project regardless of restrictions or if that craft has been trained?

I'd divert from what Noble suggests in the source material to give bonuses to leadership, maybe the ability to add your leadership to [AC? Damage?] OR something like a bard-song that operates off leadership as a once a day ability.


Eyeliner
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed May 12, 2021 12:27 am

Re: Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

Post by Eyeliner » Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:40 pm

I suggest when considering offensive DC-based spells for a domain they're not from too many different spell schools. Clerics won't usually have the luxury of three epic spell focuses yet there are domains where you'll want three or even four to use the range of spells (and that's just one of their two domains.)


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