Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

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UilliamNebel
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Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by UilliamNebel » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:24 am

The exit teleport ruined the adventure of the Malar Temple.

Just spawned you in a death trap due to walk mesh limitation. Should spawn you behind the temple to have some sort of chance, not be auto blocked into a mob meat grinder.

AstralUniverse
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by AstralUniverse » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:40 am

Just to add some clarity,

When you exit through the green portal after the boss your destination is just outside the temple on top of a malarite cleric boss when you're in the center of a screen that spawns archers with long sight from far away and then you're blocked by a spawn of mobs and cannot hide behind terrain - for sure the hardest battle you've fought that adventure - after clearing the entire temple. It's been like this for ages and for the most part the players just got used to it but it is indeed a death trap and veteran players know they have to go through that portal as if storming into a boss room.

I agree the destination should be placed elsewhere. Perhaps the portal destination in the same screen or the other portal destination in the forest would be more suitable exits from that temple.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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preggy
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by preggy » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:51 am

Oh my god this.

Malar temple in general is an extremely hard challenge for the level bracket its intended for. There are a tonne of things throughout which are "You always take damage from this" - which have just really really high AB's, or have True Sight.

Having you Portal out back into a boss in another dangerous area at the end is just mean.

Maybe replace the exit portal with a portal source?

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DangerDolphin
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by DangerDolphin » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:21 pm

If you know it's coming it's actually fine to deal with. The problem I've seen is people thinking it's just a portal to safety and wandering in unbuffed and injured, with the mage going first.

It's an instance of "veteran players will be okay here, god help you if you're new to the server" AKA Last King's Tomb syndrome

Curve
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by Curve » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:41 pm

I think the argument for changing this and other similar spots on the server are reasonable. I still prefer they are not changed. I like dangerous things on the server that can kill your character. I hear people saying that this part of the FoD is a bummer, but that was not my experience when I first came out of that portal. My experience was coming out injured without concealment and having a crazy fun, on the edge of death, blasting though consumables fight. I still experience that every time a new character goes through that portal for the first time. From then on they use the appropriate consumables to make it easy.

I think that the writ system and the current power level of characters and their ability to get better gear at lower levels has given us the idea that we should be able to level without hiccup or death. I don't like that idea. And while I will admit that dying can be a real let down, I think that without that risk then leveling and reaching higher and higher levels loses meaning. Achievement without risk lowers investment.

LovelyLightningWitch
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by LovelyLightningWitch » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:07 pm

Curve wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:41 pm
I think the argument for changing this and other similar spots on the server are reasonable. I still prefer they are not changed. I like dangerous things on the server that can kill your character. I hear people saying that this part of the FoD is a bummer, but that was not my experience when I first came out of that portal. My experience was coming out injured without concealment and having a crazy fun, on the edge of death, blasting though consumables fight. I still experience that every time a new character goes through that portal for the first time. From then on they use the appropriate consumables to make it easy.

I think that the writ system and the current power level of characters and their ability to get better gear at lower levels has given us the idea that we should be able to level without hiccup or death. I don't like that idea. And while I will admit that dying can be a real let down, I think that without that risk then leveling and reaching higher and higher levels loses meaning. Achievement without risk lowers investment.
One issue with such is loading times.

I do not believe it is a fair choice to place combat encounters across transition points, as loading times can split a party due to OOC mechanics or potentially leave someone loaded but with their screen frozen.

Definately Not A Mimic
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by Definately Not A Mimic » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:27 pm

Not saying old players should have it easier since they know what is coming vs new players who have no idea, but..

Any character should be fairly wary about stepping into an unknown portal. You have no idea where it is taking you.

AstralUniverse
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by AstralUniverse » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:50 pm

I do agree to some degree with the counter points but I still think it makes 0 sense that the hardest battle in your adventure is right /after/ you just killed the final boss. It's feels a bit like the game is trolling you.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:52 pm

I'm fine with portals, especially in places like a Malarite temple, that apparently lead to safety, actually being a trap that leads to the hardest fight yet on a run. Especially in an area like the Malarite temple- it's thematic. Why would they let you escape after wreaking havoc in their (unholy) domain, after all? It certainly makes sense that if you kill a fanatic group's high priest in front of them they'd do everything in their power to mob you down on the way out.

On the other hand, I have to echo a sentiment in this thread; such a portal should never deposit you into combat so quickly that there's a chance that the loading screen dominates your first few rounds of combat. That's not fun, immersive, or even remotely interactive. Even the quiet wink of FOIG doesn't really make this okay, because in a moment where you have an extra two seconds of lag, you possibly died even if you were mentally prepared to click as soon as your loading screen is gone.

It's not challenging game design, it's taking the rule that players aren't supposed to exploit bad AI and ignoring it in reverse - a player would absolutely be judged (and possibly punished, if the observer is a DM) for utilizing transitions to exploit enemy AI behavior and kill them safely- so no fight against the player by NPC's should ever have the same advantage.


My recommendation for any such portal is that the fight on the other side be tuned up to be harder, but engineered in such a way that it never starts while you're in the portal. As to how to go about that? I have a couple of suggestions, but I'm not sure which of them would be elegant or easy to apply.

1: On any teleport out of any dungeon, apply a brief greater sanctuary effect to the person who goes through it. ALSO apply a temporary "can't act" status. The duration of both should probably be based on how big the area loaded into via portal is; areas with longer loading times should receive slightly more duration on this. The idea is that you will spawn, have time to see the enemies, but also not be able to use your greater sanctuary effect to cast or prepare in any extra way that you didn't before the portal.

2: When players go through a portal, it should activate a spawn trigger in all directions around said portal at half a screen of distance. This gives every player time to load in and group together, and still get ambushed.

These fights were meant to be a kind of "gotcha" challenging ambush. If my suggestions are used, they should be dialed up in difficulty- to replace with actual, interactive challenge the current ooc handicap they enable by allowing players to get attacked while still in the loading screen.

Is it work? Yes. Is it more immersive, and more consistent with the server philosophy that OOC circumstances shouldn't be exploited for mechanical advantage? Also, yes. You can't seriously wag your fingers at players abusing transitions or lame AI tricks against NPC's when those NPC's start the fight off taking the same kind of lame advantages with no atmospheric benefit.
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AstralUniverse
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by AstralUniverse » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:59 am

No one:

Absolutely no one:

Malarite priest boss: I AM THE REAL SLIM SHADY OF THIS DUNGEON!

New Player: Okay, at least I died after have finished all writ objectives. Well~ time to afk for bathroom and coffee.
Svrtr wrote:

I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too


Beard Master Flex
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by Beard Master Flex » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:56 am

It is undoubtedly one of the most challenging (level appropriate) subversions of the exit portal, something that is usually a sight for sore eyes that spirits you away to safety. I can totally see how that would be not fun and completely obliterate the unprepared.

I dont have strong feelings either way.

My own anecdote from my first time through that portal as a Ranger new to the server (among a party of other rangers) was one of the most rewarding and intense experiences I've ever had on Arelith. We all stepped through into a hail of arrows and werewolves and malarites and it was pure chaos where we just had to intuitively look out for each other since there was no time to type or communicate.

We managed to barely scrape by with pretty much everyone at badly wounded or near death. And that was a very satisfying campfire story for the remainder of that characters time with them. It actually became a ritual that went on for years.

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MissEvelyn
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by MissEvelyn » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:14 pm

Definately Not A Mimic wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:27 pm
Not saying old players should have it easier since they know what is coming vs new players who have no idea, but..

Any character should be fairly wary about stepping into an unknown portal. You have no idea where it is taking you.
Absolutely this. It really dampens the enjoyment and immersion when in-game PCs act and talk like this is a video game.


Ordo.Lupus
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by Ordo.Lupus » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:11 pm

One thing is being portaled out into a possible ambush which can be done in several different ways. But seriously placing players at the top of this building is just making people frustrated. You're cramped into a corner and surrounded by archers, priests, hunters, beast and more. I've done the writs with barbs, rangers, spellswords and more, and no matter what then it still really disappoint me how this "ends". It doesn't matter if you ward up or not because as soon as you step outside you're getting dispelled followed by a shower of sneak attack and arrows.

Could we at least be placed at the backside of the temple to give us at least some chance of making it out alive? Most people go there for writ but it's getting to the point where it's not really worth it. Just like Broke tooth which is ridiculously hard.
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Ork
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by Ork » Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:30 am

This dungeon is ancient. I learned to avoid that place since olden times when Dante Lyons, an epic level cleric, got churned into ribbons on exit.

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Dr. B
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by Dr. B » Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:25 am

I think we should take it a step further and make the portal kill your party on click. Magic is prone to fluctuations and you never know when the ley lines will rip you asunder. Planar travel *should* be dangerous.

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Apothys
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by Apothys » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:19 am

Honestly,

I really like that dungeon, its big, good experience and a good challenge, don't mind the portal exit either. It is a shock the first time you do it, but it sure gets the blood pumping as the Malarites ambush you for desecrating there holy temple. :)

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In Sorrow We Trust
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Re: Malar temple exit teleport is death trap.

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:26 am

This was due to be remedied when I finish Forest of Despair, so don't worry.

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