Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

An area to facilitate free-form feedback on systems (in-game or out) related to Arelith.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Active DMs, Contributors

98lbs of sad carryweight
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:08 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by 98lbs of sad carryweight » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:50 pm

Been in Cordor for a long time now, the amount of times the NPC guards were needed is tiny.
In good conduct you'd respect the fact that NPCs exist and maybe not start the biggest evil ritual in the middle of the square at 5am when most people that could stop you are asleep so a brave level 5 tries to stop you only to get one-rounded.

Shadovar has kill scripts and it's honestly lame. I do get why, since its cross-"faction" hub for writs too and it be pretty lame to get bashed there trying to level and all but it's so weird to see everyone just drink tea with what is essentially mass murderers because its a safe space.
I'd quote Dis too but sometimes people fight there, despite offending the concourse is ICly a hilariously stupid idea. People got deleted right on the spot for being an idiot there before.

I don't think a script will fix the gameyness of the issue, it would just make it even more gamey.

Archnon
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:05 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Archnon » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:37 pm

The hub recently implemented a system where fighting in it got you portal/shop banned. It seemed to work.

As far as kill scripts, it can provide a safe space for meetings and such. But shadowvar has big issues too. Like when someone enchants a dragon, drags it in there, then releases it. Then if you respond to it attacking you by fighting back you get killscripted by the npcs. It is a 2eirr system to game. Hostile someone and then when the guards are on you both, stealth or just log. Etc. Too many issues. Report infractions of ignoring NPCs to dms or deal with it in character. That may not mean attacking it outright like the hero. Know your limits and go find friends, unless you are running a 4 wis 4 int character.

User avatar
Irongron
Server Owner/Creative Lead
Server Owner/Creative Lead
Posts: 4666
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:13 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Irongron » Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:43 pm

This is part of a broader module design debate, namely, how to deal with repeated instances of poor player behaviour (I'm going to presume, for the sake of giving explanation that this is indeed objectively poor behaviour, which is by no means the case with a lot of PvP complaints).

Broadly speaking, we have 3 methods of dealing with it.

The first is to restrict access, something that is generally a lot easier on smaller servers, where it is much easier to identify players, whereas on Arelith, with around 2000 active players it is a much bigger ask. Many NwN servers out there have a very clear idea of how they wish players to conduct themselves, and will quickly show them the door if these expectations are not met. We do ban on Arelith, but often this is a last resort, and done when one of our actual rules are broken, and not because they have earned the animosity of influential players.

The second option is to impose coded restrictions, as we saw most recently with quarter purchase changes, but also seen a number of times elsewhere, such as the infamous grind scripts, restrictions on elections, portals or merchants...and of course kill scripts. Such measures are often draconian, unpopular and strangle otherwise legitimate RP. Needless to say I'm no fan, but even though I removed kill scripts soon after taking over, I still resort to this approach, often when option 3 is not a realistic option, such as when the behaviour is taking place out of game.

The third option then, and the one I would always prefer to see, is to rely on DMs. I'd much prefer to see players taken aside, and talked to (and listened to) by a human being than suffering at the hands of an indiscriminate, faceless mechanic. Sure, people get offended, perhaps because they resent being told how to behave by a perceived authority figure, or possibly because they feel their reports aren't taken seriously enough.

But kill scripts across every settlement? Absolutely not. Possibly, just possibly we might one day go from 2000 to 5000+ players, where a personal touch is no longer possible, but I find it unlikely.

Also, where is this carnage ridden PvP fest Cordor? I'm often wandering around the city and haven't been caught up in any PvP there for over a decade. If I'd been wading through blood every time I'd walked to the Nomad and back I'd remember.

Please do report PvP if you feel it was poorly executed or broke standing rules. I know that every single such report is discussed and actioned by the team.

ScalesofEquilibrium
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:48 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by ScalesofEquilibrium » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:44 pm

Irongron wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:43 pm
Also, where is this carnage ridden PvP fest Cordor? I'm often wandering around the city and haven't been caught up in any PvP there for over a decade. If I'd been wading through blood every time I'd walked to the Nomad and back I'd remember.

Please do report PvP if you feel it was poorly executed or broke standing rules. I know that every single such report is discussed and actioned by the team.
I am happy that you have not witnessed such yourself or been forced into as much. That being said - that does not preclude it from happening at all from a lack of witnessing it. A lot of players on here can point back to a few leaderships ago in Cordor, when in succession the following events occured -

- Cordor Guard attacked in the Square.
- State Magi being hunted by various factions, some local.
- Open threats from certain factions toward the Government. Institutions of a rumor campaign encouraging others to seek violence. Some did.
-Threatening messages and home invasions of Cordor Government Officials.
- Cordor Guard attacked in their own barracks by another local faction.
- State Magi attacked in their own meeting then in the Culture District.
- Instances of posturing, warding, and incitement in the square.
- Propped up Charges leading to Court Cases seeking to harm Officials.


This culminated in a request for a community meeting, lead by GC, on the main Arelith Discord. It happened - due in part to the number of complaints. The actions and behavior were all but validated - as perpetrators attacked those who felt targeted, including stating that using OOC restrictions to criticize IC was fine; that PvP used to drive someone away was fine; and that their style of PvP and Conflict was 'enhancing' our stories and that we had to deal with it or leave. Multiple times, GC and other DMs had to ask people to pipe down. Simple requests to simply stop the behaviors or withdraw for a time were met with absolute criticism.

Since that chat, the same behaviors have been carried out against the alts of those who were targeted in the first place - often by alts (or sometimes original) characters of the perps who cultivated the above. Some have attacked the same character on multiple alts. Generally, these attacks involve little to no RP - save the one or two lines required - and no efforts are made to include the victims into any story progression at all.

Just as rumors and chats that didn't involve any of the players/characters in Cordor resulted in things growing hostile and violent - yet again, these same tactics are being used in place of any true 'conflict' RP. People wait outside of doors, stealthed. When a target logs in, suddenly several attackers do. Attacks against Guldorand Officials in the open Square of Guldorand were nearly a daily occurrence. These were often predicated on rumors that more or less sounded like excuses for the behavior - no real substance - no discovery of roleplay behind it. All of this has been reported, by multiple people, often of the same incidents. The answers afforded by staff range from silence, to general responses, to criticisms of the reports themselves - or the admittance that while the behavior is not in the 'spirit' of the rules, it is within the rules, so nothing can be done.

To summarize - the behavior...

- follows characters across alts... specifically victims.
- Involves little to no Roleplaying and absolutely zero consideration for victims.
- Involves easily verifiable false information being used as rumors and justification for violence.
- Involves nasty notices and threats being pinned all over the quarters and storefronts of the victims of these behaviors.
- Involves gank squads waiting and hunting out these PCs within the very limits of the rules. Nearly daily.
- Never involves the victims in any sort of meaningful conflict or progression.

All of these have been reported. All of these have resulted in a response of no or nothing can be done. To continue to spam the words 'report it' mean nothing if this kind of repeated behavior is permitted - exactly what, if at all, crosses the line?

It would be really nice if at least in populated town squares there was some incentive to not gank somebody cause you feel like it or 24 hours have passed.

User avatar
Zavandar
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:12 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Zavandar » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:09 pm

ScalesofEquilibrium wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:44 pm

- Cordor Guard attacked in the Square.
- State Magi being hunted by various factions, some local.
- Open threats from certain factions toward the Government. Institutions of a rumor campaign encouraging others to seek violence. Some did.
-Threatening messages and home invasions of Cordor Government Officials.
- Cordor Guard attacked in their own barracks by another local faction.
- State Magi attacked in their own meeting then in the Culture District.
- Instances of posturing, warding, and incitement in the square.
- Propped up Charges leading to Court Cases seeking to harm Officials.
I don't see what's wrong with any of this
Intelligence is too important

User avatar
ReverentBlade
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by ReverentBlade » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:16 pm

Because it makes a mockery of the idea of civilized areas. I have a hard time suspending my disbelief that a functioning monarchy wouldn't provide some reasonable protection to its citizens against overt violence. The raw anarchy and winner-take-all popularity contest might make sense in the underdark, but only the most depraved and dysfunctional surface cities would have the level of apathy that's currently presented.

The onus should not be entirely on PC guards to provide the verisimilitude that Arelith and Guldorand aren't pure anarchy hellholes. They don't necessarily have the tools to do the job and get burned out by the same griefing and bullshit we're describing here.

The problem is greatly exacerbated by settlement and election mechanics that are wildly unrealistic and promote toxic dynamics.

User avatar
Zavandar
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:12 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Zavandar » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:31 pm

I don't really see what's being made a mockery of here. Sounds like a lot was going on. That's better than the alternative; nothing going on.

Calling cordor and guldorand anarchic hellholes is a little hyperbolic. I'm not really going to address thst point if that's what you really feel.

Not everyone just wants more date auctions and language lessons and tavern rp. It's okay if you do. Accept that drama in the streets, contentious court cases, and intrigue are also fun for some people.

I also think it should definitely be on the PC guards. I've done a decent share of leading settlements and if you incentivize guard rp and find a way to make it interesting, it'll come. Just also make sure you're aware you're not going to win every fight, and don't dog on people ooc for losing. Stories can be made out of both victories and losses. I'd even say my losses were more memorable.

I also wouldn't say the election system "promotes" being toxic. There is the (punishable) ability to be toxic, but that is on the players and not the system. A system isn't toxic on its own. I suggest looking at the players and cliques this toxicity is permeating through instead of shifting blame to the system.
Intelligence is too important

Duchess Says
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:52 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Duchess Says » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:41 pm

In my ideal situation citizens would be protected by guards and non-citizens would be on their own so it's tougher to attack a citizen on their own turf. But perhaps you could bribe a guard a substantial amount to look the other way for an hour..

User avatar
The GrumpyCat
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Posts: 6565
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:58 pm

Not everyone just wants more date auctions and language lessons and tavern rp. It's okay if you do. Accept that drama in the streets, contentious court cases, and intrigue are also fun for some people.

I also think it should definitely be on the PC guards. I've done a decent share of leading settlements and if you incentivize guard rp and find a way to make it interesting, it'll come. Just also make sure you're aware you're not going to win every fight, and don't dog on people ooc for losing. Stories can be made out of both victories and losses. I'd even say my losses were more memorable..
I have to say - I actually agree with this. Not everyone has the same style of rp. There's nothing wrong with either style of course! But it's important to understand that both have to work to coexist.

Also - to be fair it's not always 'just on the guard.' There is the exile script too. To be used carefully and judiciously on exactly those sorts of people.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

User avatar
Blood on my Lips
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 7:03 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Blood on my Lips » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:53 am

Zavandar wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:31 pm

Not everyone just wants more date auctions and language lessons and tavern rp. It's okay if you do. Accept that drama in the streets, contentious court cases, and intrigue are also fun for some people.
I understand not everyone wants these things, and and you can opt out of these situations if it's not your cup of tea. No one walks up to you and physically drags you into a date auction whereas you can be forced into the other situations.

User avatar
Zavandar
Posts: 785
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:12 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Zavandar » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:56 am

the potential to be dragged to and affected by all of the above is consented to when you log onto arelith.
Intelligence is too important

User avatar
Kuma
Arelith Supporter
Arelith Supporter
Posts: 2188
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:05 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Kuma » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:26 am

Zavandar wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:09 pm
ScalesofEquilibrium wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:44 pm

- Cordor Guard attacked in the Square.
- State Magi being hunted by various factions, some local.
- Open threats from certain factions toward the Government. Institutions of a rumor campaign encouraging others to seek violence. Some did.
-Threatening messages and home invasions of Cordor Government Officials.
- Cordor Guard attacked in their own barracks by another local faction.
- State Magi attacked in their own meeting then in the Culture District.
- Instances of posturing, warding, and incitement in the square.
- Propped up Charges leading to Court Cases seeking to harm Officials.
I don't see what's wrong with any of this
me neither

House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology

Irongron wrote:

4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)


UilliamNebel
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:12 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by UilliamNebel » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:56 am

Zavandar wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:56 am
the potential to be dragged to and affected by all of the above is consented to when you log onto arelith.
So it is a roll play, over role play server. Which is fine. Arelith is mostly a PvP experience, and should be approached that way from character builds, to in game actions.

DM Praxis
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:42 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by DM Praxis » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:31 am

Honestly, folks...

EDIT: Unlocked again.

Definately Not A Mimic
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:29 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Definately Not A Mimic » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:27 pm

This isn't going to be a liked statement but.... PVP is part of role play. Do I like pvp? No, not so much. But it is part of the story telling. Your character, especially if you are making some form of guard or a character that is involved in things that others will for some reason be against, will end up in fights. You can't expect a guard to never have to fight and you (that being a general you not someone specific) chose to become a guard. Or you chose to become a plot stirrer or you chose.. etc etc. There have to be consequences to the actions and decisions that are made.

LovelyLightningWitch
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:34 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by LovelyLightningWitch » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:34 pm

Definately Not A Mimic wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:27 pm
This isn't going to be a liked statement but.... PVP is part of role play. Do I like pvp? No, not so much. But it is part of the story telling. Your character, especially if you are making some form of guard or a character that is involved in things that others will for some reason be against, will end up in fights. You can't expect a guard to never have to fight and you (that being a general you not someone specific) chose to become a guard. Or you chose to become a plot stirrer or you chose.. etc etc. There have to be consequences to the actions and decisions that are made.
So, if all I want to do is religious roleplay around a familiar community doing rituals, ceremonies and services...

I should just not even play since people are in their full rights to walk up and stab me even in the middle of a friendly/home settlement by going "I hate your god, give up on them or die"?

Definately Not A Mimic
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:29 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Definately Not A Mimic » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:51 pm

Thats a strange spin to take on this. Of course you should play, but yes they have a right to be hostile to what you're doing. You're preaching a religion, they could take offense or what have you, and yes they possibly could go hostile. But I've rarely seen a religious group, who keep things in their temple and don't go about the streets chanting like a cult or whatever, get pvped for their religious rp.

Having no faith in who you are role playing with, assuming they are going to give you only a 'stop or die' choice, is only going to lead to you having a miserable time. If you're choosing an evil god and are open about it though, you kind of should expect some push back. If you're not taking an evil god then I don't get why you think you'd be jumped in the streets.

User avatar
Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 1095
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:11 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:54 pm

LovelyLightningWitch wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:34 pm
Definately Not A Mimic wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:27 pm
This isn't going to be a liked statement but.... PVP is part of role play. Do I like pvp? No, not so much. But it is part of the story telling. Your character, especially if you are making some form of guard or a character that is involved in things that others will for some reason be against, will end up in fights. You can't expect a guard to never have to fight and you (that being a general you not someone specific) chose to become a guard. Or you chose to become a plot stirrer or you chose.. etc etc. There have to be consequences to the actions and decisions that are made.
So, if all I want to do is religious roleplay around a familiar community doing rituals, ceremonies and services...

I should just not even play since people are in their full rights to walk up and stab me even in the middle of a friendly/home settlement by going "I hate your god, give up on them or die"?
Rewrite your straw man argument about PvP and try again. As someone who likes both social RP and antagonism, and puts a lot of damn effort into making their antagonism be fun and a hell of a lot more engaging than "kneel and die," it's pretty uncool to hear your blanket characterization.

So yeah. Please try again, w/o absurd straw man.

Done.


Seven Sons of Sin
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:40 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:58 pm

I think a part of the problem is that a lot of server culture inherently biases guards/good roleplay to "preventing the ruining of the status quo / returning things to status quo."

A lot of players see the distinct and direct correlation between "nothing happening" meaning "successfully being a good guy" because you have created the virtuous peace.

I think the severity of hostility in places like Cordor should encourage "guards" and whoever to actually challenge this notion. This isn't about status quo.

This is brutality. This is militarization. This is reciprocal aggression.

I think a part of what evils/villains/antagonists always really love to see is when their actions actually have psychological impacts on those on the otherside.

Like, how messed up would a young guard recruit be if they saw a balor kill their friends? How freaking vengeful would they get?

A lot of the times good guys aren't encouraged to be really creative and "reimagine good." Settlements face severe and harsh criticism (IC/OOC) when they try shift any sort of needle on this kind of roleplay.

DMs/players/communities should encourage and commend roleplay that meets villainry where it's at. We shouldn't throw around "textbook interpretations of good alignments" but let typically "heroic" roleplay rise to the challenge.

Also, you need to kill King Edward already. This is a part of the problem. The whole "keep Cordor noobie friendly and stable" went out the door with Skaljard. Evil-aligned factions do not have to pay homage to an overlord. Nor does any other settlement outside of Cordor.

I never want to play any meaningful Cordorian because I don't want some DM coming down and telling me what I can/cannot roleplay because of some silly intrusively-designed monarchy. Like screw Amn. All that stuff needs to go away. I really don't know how Xerah did it with the magocracy, but I commend them more and more for it with every passing day. I couldn't ever feel confident in that.
Previous:
Oskarr of Procampur, Ro Irokon, Nahal Azyen, Nelehein Afsana (of Impiltur), Vencenti Medici, Nizram ali Balazdam, (Roznik) Naethandreil

User avatar
The GrumpyCat
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Posts: 6565
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:03 pm

Another way of thinking about the sitaution is this:

The main and best logical reason to prevent pvp in settlments (other than some players just wanting to feel 'safe') is that it's unrealistic and immersion breaking for certain events to occur within a settlment. And it should be said that this isn't an entirely unfair statement.

Now - there's been a lot of counter points towards that, and how exactly to deal with it. But perhaps one of the big things to think about is this.

If we tighten up on this idea - either mechanically or even via DM intervention - we will be restricting a bunch of player autonomy.

Historicaly the player base hasn't really liked that.

Are you sure you want it now?
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

User avatar
Party in the forest at midnight
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:55 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:09 pm

People are blowing Arelith PvP out of proportion. I generally play characters with high conflict lifestyles and have only been PKed once the entire time I've been here. I have no idea how Corinne didn't end up in any PvP, she was a mouthy jerk who talked more trash than I, as a player, am capable of backing up with combat. I also have an open Cyricist, an Akadian wizard who is basically Zathlan lite, an infernalist, and a slew of other half-baked concepts that I should go back to at some point.

As a disclaimer, this isn't to say that there aren't bad apples. There certainly are, and I really dislike PvP in settlements. But more frequently, I see a few trends:

1 - People who play characters that talk a LOT of trash, and then get smacked for it.
This by far is the biggest offender for people getting PKed, they escalate things unnecessarily. I've watched someone get stopped and hood checked by the Cordor Guard once, and they HAD TO get the last word in and mouth off at the guards and threaten them. The guards kept their cool, but why risk it? That sort of thing is why you get PKed. You don't need to get the last word in.

Other people go out of their way to antagonize people, and get upset when they're attacked for it. Related to that are people who think they're being clever by being antagonistic off screen from the target, and never saying a word to the target so the speak before PvP requirement is technically never fulfilled. This is a jerk move and isn't going to save you from PvP.



2 - People who don't RP with other players. This isn't a single player game, you're not the hero of the story. It's a shared narrative.
Some people say things like "but my character won't ever back down," which leaves PvP as the only solution if you aren't willing to work out a solution with an aggressor.

One of my alts was mugged by Valks once, it was a great experience. I was level 12 and ran across him in the forest, I had barely anything on me and gave him a few hundred coins. I was still trying to figure out how to be a shifty character and feel like I RPed embarrassingly bad at trying to convey that, but Valks was great. He took the coin and let me be.
When players do banditry RP, it's not to make gold. They're making nothing from it, if it was about gold they'd be in a dungeon grinding rather than trying to get a few hundred off of travelers. Not everyone is good at being a bandit, but it's worth trying to RP with them and see what happens.



3 - People who put themselves in danger.
This compounds the issues above. If you're going shopping in Andunor and get stopped, that's a bad time to be mouthy, or to have a character that never backs down.

There are some aspects of the server that are very conflict heavy. Traveling at night is dangerous now that night is longer, especially in the regions surrounding the Nexus portal. Using a ship runs the risk of encountering pirates. Fortunately, there's a lot of portals across the server that are fairly safe. If you stick to safe routes you shouldn't have problems. With that said, the one and only time I've been PKed was at a festival I was holding in Cordor when 2 Banites showed up, so it's not a hard and fast rule that you're going to be safe in town. Generally though? It's pretty safe.



Here are some tips for avoiding PvP:
- Try and work things out with other players. Go with the flow with the story. Often other people are ok with not killing you if you RP with them respectfully.
- Don't be a jerk. If you talk a lot of trash and threaten other people, you're going to get smacked for it sometime.
- Recognize danger and have an escape plan. If you are being hunted by a group, avoid places they hang out. If you're going to be in a place where they hang out, be ready to escape.


Final thoughts:
Katernin's Cordor was a lot more intense than anything the State Magi ever did, but it didn't devolve into PvP because Katernin set up a canvas for people to RP with. People could interact with her evil schemes in a meaningful way. It was one of the best evil groups in a settlement I've seen, and I think people should look at it and aspire to approach evil RP like she did.

I think people should take the time to examine their own RP more. If you feel like you have problems with too much PvP, take a step back and look at the things your character says and does. If your character is aggressively going after other characters and those characters are retaliating, if your character stops going after them you'll probably discover all of your PvP issues will disappear. Most people have their own stuff going on and don't want to deal with you.

Shadowy Reality
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 1237
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:56 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Shadowy Reality » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:39 pm

Kuma wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:26 am
Zavandar wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:09 pm
ScalesofEquilibrium wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:44 pm

- Cordor Guard attacked in the Square.
I don't see what's wrong with any of this
me neither
How do you justify this? How do you justify all the Elites and non-elite Guard NPCs standing there doing nothing, whenever someone is being murdered in front of them, even worse if it's another guard.

User avatar
The GrumpyCat
Dungeon Master
Dungeon Master
Posts: 6565
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:47 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by The GrumpyCat » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:48 pm

Shadowy Reality wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:39 pm
Kuma wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:26 am
Zavandar wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:09 pm


I don't see what's wrong with any of this
me neither
How do you justify this? How do you justify all the Elites and non-elite Guard NPCs standing there doing nothing, whenever someone is being murdered in front of them, even worse if it's another guard.
'Mate. You want me to jump into a scrap between two guys, one of which can summon a literal /dragon/ and another of which can implode me with a few words? Hell no I ain't being paid enough for that!'
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

LovelyLightningWitch
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:34 pm

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by LovelyLightningWitch » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:04 pm

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:09 pm
People are blowing Arelith PvP out of proportion. I generally play characters with high conflict lifestyles and have only been PKed once the entire time I've been here. I have no idea how Corinne didn't end up in any PvP, she was a mouthy jerk who talked more trash than I, as a player, am capable of backing up with combat. I also have an open Cyricist, an Akadian wizard who is basically Zathlan lite, an infernalist, and a slew of other half-baked concepts that I should go back to at some point.

As a disclaimer, this isn't to say that there aren't bad apples. There certainly are, and I really dislike PvP in settlements. But more frequently, I see a few trends:

1 - People who play characters that talk a LOT of trash, and then get smacked for it.
This by far is the biggest offender for people getting PKed, they escalate things unnecessarily. I've watched someone get stopped and hood checked by the Cordor Guard once, and they HAD TO get the last word in and mouth off at the guards and threaten them. The guards kept their cool, but why risk it? That sort of thing is why you get PKed. You don't need to get the last word in.

Other people go out of their way to antagonize people, and get upset when they're attacked for it. Related to that are people who think they're being clever by being antagonistic off screen from the target, and never saying a word to the target so the speak before PvP requirement is technically never fulfilled. This is a jerk move and isn't going to save you from PvP.



2 - People who don't RP with other players. This isn't a single player game, you're not the hero of the story. It's a shared narrative.
Some people say things like "but my character won't ever back down," which leaves PvP as the only solution if you aren't willing to work out a solution with an aggressor.

One of my alts was mugged by Valks once, it was a great experience. I was level 12 and ran across him in the forest, I had barely anything on me and gave him a few hundred coins. I was still trying to figure out how to be a shifty character and feel like I RPed embarrassingly bad at trying to convey that, but Valks was great. He took the coin and let me be.
When players do banditry RP, it's not to make gold. They're making nothing from it, if it was about gold they'd be in a dungeon grinding rather than trying to get a few hundred off of travelers. Not everyone is good at being a bandit, but it's worth trying to RP with them and see what happens.



3 - People who put themselves in danger.
This compounds the issues above. If you're going shopping in Andunor and get stopped, that's a bad time to be mouthy, or to have a character that never backs down.

There are some aspects of the server that are very conflict heavy. Traveling at night is dangerous now that night is longer, especially in the regions surrounding the Nexus portal. Using a ship runs the risk of encountering pirates. Fortunately, there's a lot of portals across the server that are fairly safe. If you stick to safe routes you shouldn't have problems. With that said, the one and only time I've been PKed was at a festival I was holding in Cordor when 2 Banites showed up, so it's not a hard and fast rule that you're going to be safe in town. Generally though? It's pretty safe.



Here are some tips for avoiding PvP:
- Try and work things out with other players. Go with the flow with the story. Often other people are ok with not killing you if you RP with them respectfully.
- Don't be a jerk. If you talk a lot of trash and threaten other people, you're going to get smacked for it sometime.
- Recognize danger and have an escape plan. If you are being hunted by a group, avoid places they hang out. If you're going to be in a place where they hang out, be ready to escape.


Final thoughts:
Katernin's Cordor was a lot more intense than anything the State Magi ever did, but it didn't devolve into PvP because Katernin set up a canvas for people to RP with. People could interact with her evil schemes in a meaningful way. It was one of the best evil groups in a settlement I've seen, and I think people should look at it and aspire to approach evil RP like she did.

I think people should take the time to examine their own RP more. If you feel like you have problems with too much PvP, take a step back and look at the things your character says and does. If your character is aggressively going after other characters and those characters are retaliating, if your character stops going after them you'll probably discover all of your PvP issues will disappear. Most people have their own stuff going on and don't want to deal with you.


Thing is: How do you avoid slaver raids? I've recently visited a friendly settlement where I ran into an old friend, and he warned me against staying inside my own settlement as nothing really protects against such attacks (the magic that I thought I could rely on apparently was removed).

And, reading the forums - you don't even need DM approval for such if you keep it at 3 raiders or less.

I have not ran into PvP yet, but I also play during dead hours. Usually behaviour is either interacting (or trying) to interact with settlement's community on the religious side of RP, or when there's nobody around or my partner is playing, hunt undead as is my character's faith obligation.

Both areas I know of for undead (Skull Crags, Minmir) are located near portals underdarkers use for raids, so it's a matter of time before I have a run in with "Good roleplayers accept the slave collar. You don't want to be gossiped about as a bad roleplayer, do you?" type of people (if for some reason the two of us cannot portal lens out before the encounter).

But let's say I only travel during IG day (which is a challenge with limited playtime, especially when trying to always play in a pair), and avoid night time slaver patrols and stay in settlements during the night focusing on immersion-focused/enhancing roleplay. I could still be doing everything "correct" (unless someone considers the killing of undead antagonistic and requiring punishment) and end up on the receiving end of someone gleefully describing how they mutilate my PC or try to enslave them as a group of 3 or less people decide to "take prisoners" or something.


And I feel I am not being unnecessarily fearful, as trawling the forums had shown me many people using exactly the above in their argumentation (if you're beaten and a good RPer, you accept being enslaved), (Consent and player comfort has no place on Arelith, we're a darwinistic setting), (Story trumps immersion/simulation), (Only poor RPers use -unrelent) and other things I consider worrying. Primarily the one that spoke of social darwinism as a good thing.

Haroshia
Arelith Gold Supporter
Arelith Gold Supporter
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:15 am

Re: Need kill scripts back on NPC guards.

Post by Haroshia » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:08 pm

LovelyLightningWitch wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:04 pm


Both areas I know of for undead (Skull Crags, Minmir) are located near portals underdarkers use for raids, so it's a matter of time before I have a run in with "Good roleplayers accept the slave collar. You don't want to be gossiped about as a bad roleplayer, do you?" type of people (if for some reason the two of us cannot portal lens out before the encounter).

Just want to remark on this bit to say it's best to ignore the people who gossip about you as a bad RPer for not taking a slave collar. You are not obligated to engage in slave RP if you don't want to. You also need to consent to torture RP and honestly can just -giveup if you are subdued and don't want to deal with people. Some folks will call you a bad RPer for it but unless they are DMs their opinion doesn't matter.
Tove Auburnridge

Locked