Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

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UilliamNebel
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Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by UilliamNebel » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:47 pm

Server is just overwhelmingly negative right now, and social aspects needed for mutual respect are frayed to the point of making interactions IC and OOC inherently feel risky and always going toward a negative. Its just not a very fun, or immersive place to invest time in at the moment.

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DM Janitor
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by DM Janitor » Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:39 pm

I think anything we do will be as negative as we want it to be.

I do not really think the server is overwhelmingly negative. I think sometimes, small groups of us, forget the whole of it and ruminate on bad things too much. We stop trusting each other and we stop giving ourselves benefit of the doubt.

I think people should just... talk when you feel like you can. Report things when you feel like you cannot.

...and most importantly (to me) if you've done both and things do not feel great take a break! It is okay. Arelith will be around probably when you feel better or you'll find something else to take your time.

Optimism and knowing your own limits are a better thing to consider in my opinion.
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by The Rambling Midget » Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:47 pm

Don't read the forums.

They're like the Mos Eisley Spaceport for complaints.

Everything seems nicer when you just enjoy the game.
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UilliamNebel
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by UilliamNebel » Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:58 pm

DM Janitor wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:39 pm
Optimism and knowing your own limits are a better thing to consider in my opinion.
Solid advice for anyone to follow.

However I think that in this case, there are some issues with management of expectations for what being civil to one another means, that are wearing thin, again, and again, on the server. From splits over how an IC action should have had consequences. To election results. To a good many things about settlement management, and player autonomy to direct their development.

Players managing their expectations, and relations with one another seems to be strained is the best way I can put it. And circumstances for how things are, in terms of the way things are directed with regard to the setting reacting (or not reacting) to their character's actions as they feel is warranted, seems to be adding to that strain to creating an unvirtuous feedback.

Definately Not A Mimic
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Definately Not A Mimic » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:05 pm

Sometimes when reading on here I really start to wonder who people are interacting with. I see pvp but its rare in the extreme I can't avoid it. I see people I know from first hand I don't want to interact with because we clash, nothing they did wrong just a differing of styles, so I don't interact with them. I hear things, as we all do, about others but I tend to not pay too much mind unless I experience it myself.

From my experience just because someone says person A is bad or did this or does that or is a meanie it is rarely true. Most times they had a bad interaction and blew everything out of proportion in their telling and retelling of the story. Mild embellishments that start to feel like facts or not having all the facts so not understanding the why of someone else.

Things go smoother if you take it one day at a time and enjoy who you enjoy and don't try and hang out with those that upset you. They also go smoother when you don't listen to what others opinions are about people and try to be open. Just my humble opinion.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Xarge VI » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Negativity can be straining and it is easy to expect this and that character has OOC motivations. If it's getting exhausting a break is good.

My advice is to just ignore the negative rumours and stubbornly give people a chance. Going about trying to rp with people and rping your character without OOC expectations is more rewarding than fearing the other guy might be up to no good.

At best you find characters who aren't driven by OOC motives and give you awesome rp in return, at worst you get some hatred from people who's opinions aren't really worth caring about anyway. (Getting angry over losing/being opposed IC, is not really very sensible in a setting like Arelith)

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Lexx » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:21 pm

What janitor said. But as a little extra. Don't take the reports of negative interactions as widespread indicative of the server. There's lots of people out there just waiting to be encountered and RPed with in a good-faith manner. There will always be the odd person who gets it wrong or is disingenuous. But the majority I feel are here for the right reason and why I keep playing. As I keep getting great interactions with players old and new. Familiar and new to me. Focus on having fun with your RP and ignore the ones that don't reciprocate. You can't please everyone all the time.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Dr. B » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:42 pm

It has always been that way. You're on a server with some people who spend twelve or more hours a day trying to force their will onto a fictional fantasy world. That's probably not the happiest subset of humanity.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Kuma » Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:05 pm

The Rambling Midget wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:47 pm
Don't read the forums.

They're like the Mos Eisley Spaceport for complaints.

Everything seems nicer when you just enjoy the game.
or discord

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UilliamNebel
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by UilliamNebel » Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:56 pm

Kuma wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:05 pm
or discord
Kind of agreeing with this a lot right now. Heard someone get cursed out in a voice channel a few hours ago, the belligerent party left angry, came back in to the voice channel, to further shout expletives at someone. And then the player on the receiving end of this was banned from that Discord, and me the one witness to it was never asked anything.

So would actually recommend staying away from Discords after that, just can lead to grief too easily. So that is likely the place where my perception of a negativity problem has been most developed lately.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Curve » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:30 am

I wrote this some time ago in this thread,
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3979&hilit=skype
grip wrote: Thanks, Kregor. Real shit there and it is appreciated. I too, was once part of a Skype group that was full of amazing RPers. They were (and still are, no doubt) some of the best folks I have met across internet land, but it screwed up the game for me at no fault of theirs. I had to check myself in a big way and so I destroyed Skype from my gaming experience on Arelith. I miss those guys a ton, but I'd far rather enjoy the game my way, than the group way. Many of the reasons were similar to Kregors'.
That was some years past, and since my gaming experiences have been more genuine to me, my characters are more true to themselves, and I am having far more fun on Arelith. YMMV, but that is mine.
Arelith is the only game I care to play so I protect my experience here.
-I don't skype, discord, or anything else when I am playing. Voice chat will ruin every aspect of the game that is good and pure.
-I don't do things that I don't want to do. I maintain an ethical code in arelith and do not deviate from it.
-I only engage in tells when it is absolutly needed.
-I don't kick it casually with city rpers, the cool kids, or the pvp squads. My experience is that these folks make me feel bad so I only engage with them in a conflictual way.
-If I am not having fun I log out and do not log back in until I really know that I can have fun doing it. If it's a day, or if it's a year.
-I concern myself with the fun of the people around me and make every attempt to be engaging and enjoyable.
-I drink the tears of haters and cry babies.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by AstralUniverse » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:33 am

This server is great. The playerbase here is great. The parts of the playerbase that I like less, are still excellent RPers when I look at other communities like ours. Proportions... there's nothing quite like ours and the "worst" RPers here are still pretty decent in general. Proportion, again. I think what we got here is pretty rare, and it's possible partially because the server is open for different playstyles. And when one player thinks more towards "light-core" RP and another player is like "I roll after 1 pvp death" then you have clashes of playstyles, you have unmet expectations, you have players judging other player's RP and you have rumors, trash talks, etc etc. A lot of conspiracy theories, and it's not unexpected in a growing community, growing staff and 15 years of legacy. It's inevitable. There will always be players who speak of the server, or of other players with bad faith, be it based on real grounds and negative experiences or not. I admit I dont like all players here and if I can avoid some of them I do so, but every once in a while you cant really avoid a certain player without breaking character, or escaping IC consequences for your actions, so its *important* to give players, especially the ones we like less, the benefit of the doubt. Another chance, even for the 10th time, to surprise us positively and change the impression we have on them.

For players who cannot grasp and spiritually comprehend the above, or dont want to even have to deal with that to begin with, just close all OOC communication platforms and log in on your character. Dont worry be happy.
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Hazard
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Hazard » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:52 am

Dr. B wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:42 pm
It has always been that way. You're on a server with some people who spend twelve or more hours a day trying to force their will onto a fictional fantasy world. That's probably not the happiest subset of humanity.
Nailed it.

Remember to take breaks from Arelith. It's really the only advice I can give, apart from echoing what others have said. Avoid discord/ooc chats. They ruin the game, not just for yourself but for others. It's selfish, and you will metagame whether you realise it or not.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Nitro » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:00 am

UilliamNebel wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:56 pm
So would actually recommend staying away from Discords after that, just can lead to grief too easily. So that is likely the place where my perception of a negativity problem has been most developed lately.
That's the truth of it. Avoid discord like the plague and you'll find your enjoyment of the game skyrockets. More immersive as you learn about events in-game, less negativity as no one is bitching about something they don't like or a PvP they lost.

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DM Monkey
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by DM Monkey » Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:55 am

Chiming in here for some tips about your monkey brain that will help you be happy on Arelith again!

- Do what makes you happy
- Don't focus on the negative
- Get out of the echo chambers
- Focus on your character and their part in the story (rather than worries OOC)
- Assume that if someone does something (no matter how bad), they're doing the above point only, it isn't personal

That last point is very important. If you start assuming that our other players have good intentions (as players), then you will see less negativity on the server. Sometimes it can be hard for people to distinguish good players from evil characters. Just remember, it's RP! It's never personal! And if things go too far, it's best to just report it and try to move on.

Try harder! Help set a good example of roleplay for the server culture.


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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:24 am

There's some excellent advice here! And I'm gonna be awful and basicaly copy what other people said.

*Assume the best of everyone. Don't believe the negatives until you've seen it with your own eyes
*Be wary of Discord/OOC communication too much. A little is fine, but limit it as much as possible as it can get very echo chambery/metagamy/irritating.
* Try and enjoy the BAD things that happen as well as the good. Make lemonaid out of your lemons. The best stories put their characters through the ringer- so when bad stuff happens to your pc tell yourself it's just an ongoing plot.
* Take breaks when you need them.
* Try to make other peoples game fun, but understand that you can lead to a player to fun, but you can't force them to engage. Their fun is in their own hands, ultimatly.
*Likewise so is yours. If something is continuously not fun, disengage from it.
* If a character is being mean to you, always presume it's the CHARACTER and not the player.
*Don't ever be afraid to bend your characterisation a bit, either for your fun or for another persons.
*If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. (Or perhaps more accuratly, at least try and say a lot more nice things about folks than bad things. You'll be suprised about how much more pleasent things become)
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:38 pm

I think sometimes people confuse opinions that go against the status quo for negativity, and then get their parrots to pile on with their own brand of negativity, which in turn puts the opinionated on the back foot and...you guessed it, negative. I think if everyone took the time to see where the person they disagree with was coming from things would feel a lot better in general. That doesn't mean you have to agree in the end, just realize that not everyone sees things the way you do and that's ok.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Archnon » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:47 pm

I always feel bad when I see these posts both because I am sure someone is not enjoying themselves and because I do not have those same experiences. There has been a lot of good advice thrown around and I think all of it is amazing. But one thing I have learned that has vastly improved my experience in the last six months or so is this:

Don't be afraid to play the side character!

If you are playing an ambitious character with lofty goals, odds are you are going to butt heads with people. It is inevitable as other people will have lofty goals that run counter to yours. However, the server is full of people who do not have grand ambitious goals. They are great RPers, they stay in character, they may even have a schtick, but that schtick is most definitely not the grand merchant, the largest faction, getting elected Thane, or the head of Cordor or Guld. They move about the island, make friends, cause little bits of trouble, help people, whatever strikes their fancy. They are the wanderers. They probably didn't come in with some big group to establish a faction. They may not operate on discord at all and their Tells may be turned off. Maybe they get drawn into a grand plot by a leader and if they see it through or not, they don't care. Or maybe they tend the bar in the Hawk's Nest and hear peoples stories and offer advice.

If you are burned out on grand political or economic intrigue or just butting heads with people hostile to your intentions, then I encourage you to start over, pick a new area to play, start a new character, explore more of the server, and take a break.


Ultimately, it is okay that your characters ambitions are limited to surviving and enjoying themselves. It is okay to be a side character. You don't have to be the hero or the villain. You can be invested in a character like this and you can have a lot of fun with it. As far as Arelith is concerned, Chris Farley was wrong. It is okay to be a guy just living in a van down by the river.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by LovelyLightningWitch » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:15 pm

Archnon wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:47 pm
I always feel bad when I see these posts both because I am sure someone is not enjoying themselves and because I do not have those same experiences. There has been a lot of good advice thrown around and I think all of it is amazing. But one thing I have learned that has vastly improved my experience in the last six months or so is this:

Don't be afraid to play the side character!

If you are playing an ambitious character with lofty goals, odds are you are going to butt heads with people. It is inevitable as other people will have lofty goals that run counter to yours. However, the server is full of people who do not have grand ambitious goals. They are great RPers, they stay in character, they may even have a schtick, but that schtick is most definitely not the grand merchant, the largest faction, getting elected Thane, or the head of Cordor or Guld. They move about the island, make friends, cause little bits of trouble, help people, whatever strikes their fancy. They are the wanderers. They probably didn't come in with some big group to establish a faction. They may not operate on discord at all and their Tells may be turned off. Maybe they get drawn into a grand plot by a leader and if they see it through or not, they don't care. Or maybe they tend the bar in the Hawk's Nest and hear peoples stories and offer advice.

If you are burned out on grand political or economic intrigue or just butting heads with people hostile to your intentions, then I encourage you to start over, pick a new area to play, start a new character, explore more of the server, and take a break.


Ultimately, it is okay that your characters ambitions are limited to surviving and enjoying themselves. It is okay to be a side character. You don't have to be the hero or the villain. You can be invested in a character like this and you can have a lot of fun with it. As far as Arelith is concerned, Chris Farley was wrong. It is okay to be a guy just living in a van down by the river.
I frequently see on the forums disparage those who play side characters, encouraging them to roll if they end up playing such a character (someone whose ambition is to live a comfortable life/wandering level 30). Over and over I see remarks that, "if you are not pushing a plot, you should roll your PC and make a new one."


I admit seeing such is one thing that makes me feel discouraged, as such characters are explicitly what I enjoy: media through which the setting and other characters' interactions can be experienced without goals to drive grand story, at best - experience and record what occurs. Such makes me wonder whenever I interact with some stranger or major player, "are they judging me for sticking to one character? For focusing on experience/sensation over narrative?".

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Cuchilla » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:27 pm

I played on this server since 2006, and when I feel like you, negative, I found out it's a very healthy symptom that you need to take a break - be it for an hour, for weeks, months. Not forever, because I think most return after a shorter or longer absence from the game.

Arelith is "just" a game (but what a game, my oh my!). Pixels on a screen. Yes, you can participate in it. But you can always turn it off, get away, and find better ways to enjoy your life.

The best thing is about this game is, that you can make it better, more positive, and you, yourself, can create fun, not just for yourself, but also for others!

Maybe you ran into negative players who didn't realize they needed a break. But again, nothing is easier than finding players who want to create good entertainment, have fun times. And believe me, they are there, if you go looking for them.

Hope you find them ....

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UilliamNebel
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by UilliamNebel » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:10 pm

Cuchilla wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:27 pm
I played on this server since 2006, and when I feel like you, negative, I found out it's a very healthy symptom that you need to take a break - be it for an hour, for weeks, months. Not forever, because I think most return after a shorter or longer absence from the game.

Arelith is "just" a game (but what a game, my oh my!). Pixels on a screen. Yes, you can participate in it. But you can always turn it off, get away, and find better ways to enjoy your life.

The best thing is about this game is, that you can make it better, more positive, and you, yourself, can create fun, not just for yourself, but also for others!

Maybe you ran into negative players who didn't realize they needed a break. But again, nothing is easier than finding players who want to create good entertainment, have fun times. And believe me, they are there, if you go looking for them.

Hope you find them ....
I actually agree with all this. And points on playing a side character as well up above in the thread.

That said, I've more or less always, always played a side character. No character of mine in the three years here has ever been involved in any DM plot of any sort beyond perhaps an hour or two, and which I can count on one hand. It is explicitly when attempting to get involved in the player to player aspects of Arelith that I have lately found a good deal of player to player negativity, cynicism, etc. Off on my own, get immense enjoyment from the server. Casual chit chatty IC RP dialogue, grand from Guldorand to Cordor. Go to get involved in anything remotely resembling a plot, just gonna say it in one word, meta, meta out the wahzoo! And not cognitively either I think, or meta as a pejorative implying cheating. But it is there, impacting motive IC, to a very noticeable degree when coupled with the OOC behaviors and attitudes I've been encountering. As previously put in the thread, that is what Discord brought with it. Which sort of shocks me, as I would have expected it, with people more so having interactions via voice to engage in greater empathy and fostering of cooperation, not become more partisan to the degree of it looking like Twitter during an election cycle. Discord based around settlements has likely done much to color my recent perspectives here so stepping away from that I hope will do a lot to bring back my enjoyment and immersive interactions.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Diegovog » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:05 pm

This might be just me but I feel the server used to be more toxic years ago. You can still get a sense of how it was in an OOC level if you search some character names in the old non official discord and read people's comments on them.
And I don't know about you guys, but it used to be impossible to play without getting OOC comments about DM favoritism or that some people were "untouchable" for being friends with the right people.

Haven't seen this in a while now.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by LIAR LIAR » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:18 pm

UilliamNebel wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:47 pm
Server is just overwhelmingly negative right now
Yes. 100%. I left the Surface to get away from it because people tend to be more relaxed OOCly about conflicts in the Underdark in my experience. Sort of makes sense, since choosing to play there is choosing to play in a conflict zone.

Edit: Also, Ive given up on discord servers. Somehow, someway, there's always some kind of nefarious element and it's really disturbing that's such a prevalent thing in our community.

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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Opustus » Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:18 pm

I think Janitor's point about being charitable with the benefit of the doubt is important. I think a solid and friendly OOC rapport especially ingame can ameliorate some situations where your actions as a player become blurred with those of your character. Nothing wrong about wishing well to the other player in a tell despite IC disagreements, it's just a common sense gesture of good will that does nothing to dilute immersion. And while some players seem to demand a crystal clear differentiation between player and character self or other, I think it's realistic and useful to acknowledge that sometimes we become personally invested (e.g. apparent in characters being very dear to us) and can't always differentiate perfectly. I think some degree of friendly OOC rapport also helps remind us of the person behind the character and how it pays off to be courteous and cooperative.
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Re: Server has become overwhelmingly negative it feels

Post by Waldo52 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:29 pm

I think covid, climate related panic and the general downfall of civilization have taken a toll on the player base. Neverwinter Nights came out in the early 2000's so it's a fairly antique game and the slightly older crowd that plays here has to deal with very adult problems. Nerves are frayed and the time spent in front of our computers trying to decompress with a beer and an old game has become very important to people. We're in a warm, consoling bubble when we log in and when that bubble is burst there's a serious problem.

I've had some extremely negative interactions with players lately. To some extent I could see why my behavior was seen as obnoxious: as DM Janitor explained to me, if you die in a certain place you should try to avoid that place for a while to make death feel real (I honored the 24 hour rule with players but didn't get it with regards to areas). However there have been some players in the last 2-3 weeks who literally exploded at me via tells when I gave them a choice between their gold or their lives. These were legitimate in character robberies.

There was one instance where a man refused to give me any gold and I "killed" him in subdual. Despite the extremely soft and almost repercussion free attack he screamed and complained at me via tells for minutes, saying he was low level (like I could tell when I threatened him? This isn't WoW) and that he was reporting me. There was another man who gave me a minute or so of refusal until a witness came and I had to make good on my threats and sent him to the wall. He sent me similar tells.

The majority of my interactions with the general player base are positive. People react to my shocking character IN CHARACTER and I enjoy my friends, my enemies and the disgusted onlookers. But there does seem to be an increasing undercurrent of negativity and bad sportsmanship lately. A good first impulse is to assume that other role players are genuine, even if they're a bit flawed and biased towards their own success. But people are hurting right now and for a certain subset of the player base a bad in game interaction is just too much to take.

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