Some warlock feedback

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Hinty
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Hinty » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:23 pm

Yup. All magic goes through one or the other of the weaves.

Mystra absolutely allows Demons and Devils to grant spells through her Weave. As I recall not long after the current Mystra came into power she removed access to the Weave from all evil practitioners. Ao very quickly explained to her that she would permit EVERYONE to use the Weave or he would find a NEW goddess of magic who would.

That said, Star Pact... I mean these are ancient and horrific powers that all the gods, demons, devils celestials and so on are hell bent upon keeping locked away beyond the edge of reality more or less. I would imagine that if Mystra could get away with cutting off access to anyone it would be them. Would make sense if they used a bizarre and baffling alternative that served to drive their followers even more insane.



On a mechanical note, I am curious about a few things. How does Feylock Wildshape work, does it scale with Warlock levels as if Druid for uses per day and Dire Critter forms? Also, given that beyond the first few levels the animal forms are not really viable combat forms it would be nice if there were a few more animals to choose from.

How does the Area Effect Eldritch Blast interact with Feylock Positive Energy healing? Does it do the full 1d4 healing to all party members in the area of effect, do no healing, or is it a "Target a party member to heal them and harm all enemies around them" thing?

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kinginyellow
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by kinginyellow » Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:47 am

The problem with Warlock lore is in part FR's setting being at fault here, and some of its 3.5 lore.

Current 5E FR fully embraces Planescape's cosmology and the cosmology of spheres. While 3.5 IIRC had world tree cosmology. The difference is that in Planescape magic is something that exists in every plane and requires understanding of that plane's "key" to be able to use. As a result, Planar Mages can use magic almost anywhere so long as they know that plane's key. This can be tricky in certain outer planes like Limbo, which not only does the key for it change regularly, but the entire plane is a wild magic zone.

The alternative to this is divine magic, which is both reliable and unreliable in planescape. Its reliable because you almost always have it, its unreliable because the further away from the source of your magic you are, the more restrictive your spell list becomes. A Cleric of Tyr in the Abyss can only cast spells of 2 levels below the max level they've been alloted by their deity.

This is where the Weave becomes tricky, and where the waters get muddied when you bring 5.0 concepts into a 3.5 setting. The weave only exists in FR. It doesn't exist anywhere else. And in planescape you could still adapt it to "the weave and Mystra's control of it" being the "key" you had to work with to use magic. You essentially had to work within the boundries of Mystra's rules, which are not just the rules that she imposes on spellcasters as a deity, but also the tradition of magic of the plane which fundamentally changes how the spell you're casting is drafted somatically .

Outsiders don't care about this. They give you magic the same way a god does. Eldritch Magic is just weird because its not ARCANE but it still has arcane spell failure. However, its origin is very similar to how divine magic works outside of FR.

Essentially, everywhere but FR, the Weave doesn't exist, and Warlock don't need to abide by it. In FR, it depends on the edition.

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Zavandar
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Zavandar » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:03 am

mechanics question

gate at lvl 30 has 39 ab and lasts 1.5 mins. 39 ab implies that it isn't scaling with epic cl. intended?

also, shadow conj summons don't appear to be scaling either.

also, with warlocks being able to cast things like shadow shield and true seeing, will they be able to read those scrolls too? or will that be in limbo like fs and shaman?
Intelligence is too important

Red_Wharf
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Red_Wharf » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:26 am

Can Eldritch Armor have its STR requirement dropped to 20? It would then be an option for Hideous Blow Warlocks, because otherwise I honestly fail to see what build would ever want to pick that feat or even use the Invoker's Cuirass.

Good Character
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Good Character » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:31 am

Red_Wharf wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:26 am
Can Eldritch Armor have its STR requirement dropped to 20? It would then be an option for Hideous Blow Warlocks, because otherwise I honestly fail to see what build would ever want to pick that feat or even use the Invoker's Cuirass.
I would be down to it being available after getting Greater Pact, but the Hideous Blow warlocks can already obtain it in its current state without issue beyond feat-starvation.

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kinginyellow
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by kinginyellow » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:38 am

Red_Wharf wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:26 am
Can Eldritch Armor have its STR requirement dropped to 20? It would then be an option for Hideous Blow Warlocks, because otherwise I honestly fail to see what build would ever want to pick that feat or even use the Invoker's Cuirass.
I mean personally I would go as far as to say that the strength requirements of Eldritch Armor makes it unappealing, especially when you actually look at the stats on the Invoker's Armor.

I mean, please, correct me if I'm wrong. Spell Clutch only restores spell slots up to 2nd level, right? This is a +3 Full Plate with +4 to two skills, spell clutch and 10 SR. Runic is mostly always going to be used for uni saves, if not, its just +1 to a stat.

Compare this with the Hexblade Armor (And Hexblade I feel is a good multiclass for a STR lock taking Hideous Blow so they don't need to have 24 charisma for Dark Blessing) which is medium armor, and since it already has arcane spellfailure reduction (which stacks w ith Warlock's and Hexblade's) makes for a much better endgame armor, especially when its only drawback, that you can't use divine shield, is already enforced on warlocks with an epic pact. It just gives you the most AC out of every other option, and +2 to Charisma.

Red_Wharf
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Red_Wharf » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:05 am

Good Character wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:31 am
Red_Wharf wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:26 am
Can Eldritch Armor have its STR requirement dropped to 20? It would then be an option for Hideous Blow Warlocks, because otherwise I honestly fail to see what build would ever want to pick that feat or even use the Invoker's Cuirass.
I would be down to it being available after getting Greater Pact, but the Hideous Blow warlocks can already obtain it in its current state without issue beyond feat-starvation.
Without issue? On a human, if you want to have Eldritch Armor and at least 18 CHA to cast all spell levels, your CON ends up at 12, which for a full level 30 warlock means 390 HP or 420 HP with Toughness. Even with full plate and tower shield, your AC remains on the low end, and Eldritch Armor requires an Epic Pact, so you can't even throw it on a div dip Warlock to reach a decent AC amount. Melee build with low HP and low AC? Yikes.

The other option is sacrificing your spellbook for more CON or spending epic ability feats. Sorry, for me this isn't a fair trade and you won't ever see me playing this.

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Tyrantos
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Tyrantos » Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:15 pm

Having really fun with Undying warlock! The only thing I wish is that it would be a lot more clear when your spells come off cool down. Can be a bit difficult to notice in the heat of battle from what I've seen. Also- Thank you for fixing the stream issue. Finally, I can summon something else than zombies!

a shrouded figure
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by a shrouded figure » Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:30 pm

Could we get some clarity surrounding the DI stacking? It appears to be a hot mess incoming from different sources.

Current state id warn people that it does /not/ function as described.

Warlock - 5%
Undying - 5%
Honor Guard - 5%
Curse of Life - 9%
Accursed - 5%

This /should/ offer 29% DI for example, but I’m seeing more to the tune of 14% so something clearly doesn’t play well together lol.

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Tyrantos
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Tyrantos » Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:30 pm

a shrouded figure wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:30 pm
Could we get some clarity surrounding the DI stacking? It appears to be a hot mess incoming from different sources.

Current state id warn people that it does /not/ function as described.

Warlock - 5%
Undying - 5%
Honor Guard - 5%
Curse of Life - 9%
Accursed - 5%

This /should/ offer 29% DI for example, but I’m seeing more to the tune of 14% so something clearly doesn’t play well together lol.
Did you make a bug report about this?

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kinginyellow
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by kinginyellow » Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:38 pm

So now that Star Pact no longer has Pacted Haste spells I rebuilt my character to have quicken spell so as to actually have damage output.

I have to say that the implementation of a "quickened" hideous blow is really janky, and doesn't feel great to use. Your first hideous blow is never "quickened", it'll take 6 seconds for your next one to come out. Then, once that one comes out, you essentially have 3 seconds to queue up another hideous blow, or you go back to using a full round action one. Since its a melee move, repositioning, especially on ranged targets, might just mean you miss the window and have to use a full round action instead. I've also had dodging animations delay the cast of Hideous Blow, and essentially forcing you to use a full round action.

I'm probably gonna just tough it out, but I really hope that the current implementation of the quicken spell's feat interaction with the feat cast of EB and its blast shapes isn't the final implementation.
Last edited by kinginyellow on Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Eyeliner
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Eyeliner » Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:51 pm

Red_Wharf wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:05 am
Good Character wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:31 am
Red_Wharf wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:26 am
Can Eldritch Armor have its STR requirement dropped to 20? It would then be an option for Hideous Blow Warlocks, because otherwise I honestly fail to see what build would ever want to pick that feat or even use the Invoker's Cuirass.
I would be down to it being available after getting Greater Pact, but the Hideous Blow warlocks can already obtain it in its current state without issue beyond feat-starvation.
Without issue? On a human, if you want to have Eldritch Armor and at least 18 CHA to cast all spell levels, your CON ends up at 12, which for a full level 30 warlock means 390 HP or 420 HP with Toughness. Even with full plate and tower shield, your AC remains on the low end, and Eldritch Armor requires an Epic Pact, so you can't even throw it on a div dip Warlock to reach a decent AC amount. Melee build with low HP and low AC? Yikes.

The other option is sacrificing your spellbook for more CON or spending epic ability feats. Sorry, for me this isn't a fair trade and you won't ever see me playing this.
Maybe it could drop to 22 STR? I'm even struggling to get it on a gold dwarf (admittedly with undying pact so 20 con). Actually can achieve the numbers with the epic strength feats, but have to take that epic feat at the same level as armor feat so I will end up with 24 strength but it doesn't open the feat... ugh...

Itikar
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Itikar » Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:29 pm

A little thing I just found through testing. Basic magic staff cannot currently be used by warlocks, it's not a huge deal but it should probably be extended to warlocks as well.

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Kaeldre
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Kaeldre » Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:23 pm

I will preface by saying that I think the new changes to warlock are very dynamic and engaging, clearly some serious thought has been put into this and praise should be given to the team for their dedication.

That said, the abyssal pact strikes me as strange. In my mind, it is supposed to represent reckless abandon and unbridled power. By tying it to wild magic I find it more whimsical than unrestrained.

In essence, I don't think the humorous side of wild magic suits abyssalists very well. I think this might be the reason some of the pre-existing warlocks are apprehensive about continuing their character concepts.

Other than that, I find the dark invocations, unique pact abilities and eldritch forms a blast to play with.
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xanrael
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by xanrael » Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:08 pm

Kaeldre wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:23 pm
I will preface by saying that I think the new changes to warlock are very dynamic and engaging, clearly some serious thought has been put into this and praise should be given to the team for their dedication.

That said, the abyssal pact strikes me as strange. In my mind, it is supposed to represent reckless abandon and unbridled power. By tying it to wild magic I find it more whimsical than unrestrained.

In essence, I don't think the humorous side of wild magic suits abyssalists very well. I think this might be the reason some of the pre-existing warlocks are apprehensive about continuing their character concepts.

Other than that, I find the dark invocations, unique pact abilities and eldritch forms a blast to play with.
Now I've got a picture in my head of Orcus in a schoolgirl outfit swinging his Wand of Orcus about with sparkles everywhere.

I like the idea of a warlock having access to Wild Magic Surges, but think it might be better off in another pact's list. On the other hand, I might not complain if some wild mages were put to the torch for being suspected demon worshipers.

a shrouded figure
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by a shrouded figure » Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:51 pm

Again- I’m an idiot, but I’m of the impression that a near infinite range touch attack at 57 AB ignoring concealment for 21d6 + whatever flavor of pact you chose twice a round could be considered a bit over tuned. I can’t actually come up with a build that could dodge the second attack. Maybe there’s some goofy interaction with deflect missile that I don’t know about?

We spend all this time making str builds less suck vs dex, and then in the blink of an eye they lose on average 20 AC lol. Dex builds lose 3 to 16 AC vs touch, STR loses 11 to a whopping 29 AC… wow. All this on a hasted chassis drowning in horrific DC spells (some infi cast) and utility out their ears.

So with some minor tweaks, we’re rocking 57 AC, 53AB touch attacks (57 is overkill), 55 disc (a bit low, omg we found a weakness), 430 HP (low for what I typically run, we can call that weakness two.. maybe?), full warlock spell book, pick an epic pact (sorry no undying I couldn’t cram 20 con into it)… like really the more I build with the new warlock the more I raise my eyebrow

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kinginyellow
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by kinginyellow » Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:27 am

a shrouded figure wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:51 pm
Again- I’m an idiot, but I’m of the impression that a near infinite range touch attack at 57 AB ignoring concealment for 21d6 + whatever flavor of pact you chose twice a round could be considered a bit over tuned. I can’t actually come up with a build that could dodge the second attack. Maybe there’s some goofy interaction with deflect missile that I don’t know about?
Yep. Welcome to 3.5 Dex Lock. This is how it is on the table top. Arelith actually balances it slightly by forcing you to take 5 feats to do it and making them have stat requirements and block out other invocations that are now feats. In the tabletop you take 1 feat called Eldritch Mastery at level 21 and you double your blast damage.

Some other notable differences:

Eldritch Spear doesn't ignore concealment

All of their spell levels in the tabletop refresh, not some related to a pact or based on spell level.

Dark Premonition is Wizard's Premonition but infinite uses per day.

Their dispel gives them temporary hitpoints per dispelled effect.

Dark One's Own Luck is a level 1 invocation that gives you charisma to saves for 24 hours, rather than an epic warlock feat that you take at level 28.

xanrael
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by xanrael » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:56 am

As far as Quicken blast goes, what about creating a conditional for the first round as it is applying the hack haste, have it work like Darkbolt where the warlock spends the whole round and then makes 2 touch attacks for full damage for each? If the haste effect is present (whether from the hack or the actual spell) then it works like normal.

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-XXX-
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by -XXX- » Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:54 am

a shrouded figure wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:51 pm
Again- I’m an idiot, but I’m of the impression that a near infinite range touch attack at 57 AB ignoring concealment for 21d6 + whatever flavor of pact you chose twice a round could be considered a bit over tuned. I can’t actually come up with a build that could dodge the second attack. Maybe there’s some goofy interaction with deflect missile that I don’t know about?
The median for 2x(21d6) is 2x73.5 = 147 dmg. A heal potion restores 120 dmg.
The max for 2x(21d6) is 2x126 = 252 dmg. That means even if you roll all sixes, you're not one-rounding most optimized builds out there.

Might be counter-intuitive, but sounds about right to me.
We'll see how it translates into PvE.

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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by godhand- » Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:39 am

AstralUniverse wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:56 am
you cannot.
interesting. haste works with extendo but not chain does not with empower. I assumed they both would have worked.
Cortex wrote: Addendum, the immediate above post by godhand is wrong in about every aspect, as were most of his other posts.

Archnon
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Archnon » Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:10 pm

Let me preface this with I haven't read this full feedback thread. I have been trying to explore the class a bit in PGCC instead so if I am doubling up, I apologize. Overall, I love this rework. The class has so many built in options and directions. Honestly, because of that I am worried that 1.) the server will now be filled with warlocks and 2.) we won't really know the overpowered combinations for a long time, which means an extended period of buffs and nerfs. However, a few things struck me as overpowered and a few as underpowered.

Overpowered:
Metamagic - Being able to infinicast metamagic spells is a bit insane. Especially with the suit of other benefits that these pacts get. You hit a point where everything you cast is either empowered or extended.

See the unseen - This is one of those where I am sure I missed some comments but this is a huge boon. Perma see invis is a bit wild. Perhaps a See invis ability that is rounds/level with a 10 minute cooldown. I'd even get rid of the infinicast see invis from the pacts. Give em an extra zoo buff instead.

Underpowered:
Hag's capstone sleep on eldritch - The sleep is nice. But in my testing the duration is always super short. Like, I don't have time to get a spell off on them while they are asleep. And I am hasted. I think it is set at 1 round. Perhaps 1 round + 1 per foci in enchantment and 1d4 on top..... so 1+2(foci)+1d4. Just to give you enough time to get a spell off or assess the situation

Weird:
I don't understand the undying pact. The need to hit 20 Con and 18 charisma means you end up really tanking your dex making your range touch attack a lot less reliable. Though perhaps I am not seeing something.

My plan is to roll up an Unseelie Hag soon and I am eager to see how it levels. These are just my humble opinions but overall this was an incredible rework. I look forward to people churning out complex broken builds over the next 6 months thanks to the effort that went into making a truly unique and diverse class.

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Hin_Justice
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Hin_Justice » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:06 pm

My overall impression of leveling new warlocks is:

The 3 - 5 grind hurts on non-Unseelie or Infernal/Abyssal pacts. So I think lowering the Lore cost on Summon Creature II scrolls would help a long way for Warlocks not wanting to multi-pact their build, but needs summon aid the first 5-10 levels of play.

I do feel not having Cantrips is a big miss. Light, Acid Splash, and the basic Heal spell, I think, would be nice infi-cast for all pacts and would alleviate some offensive spells missing from Level 1 and 2 spells from most pacts. I know these are more suggestions than feedback, but the pain is real in the 3-5 level gap.

QoL for this level range really should be given more thought. Cantrips, I feel, could give more to it (since we have a limited list of Learned Spells, as it is).

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a shrouded figure
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by a shrouded figure » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:21 pm

-XXX- wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:54 am
a shrouded figure wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:51 pm
Again- I’m an idiot, but I’m of the impression that a near infinite range touch attack at 57 AB ignoring concealment for 21d6 + whatever flavor of pact you chose twice a round could be considered a bit over tuned. I can’t actually come up with a build that could dodge the second attack. Maybe there’s some goofy interaction with deflect missile that I don’t know about?
The median for 2x(21d6) is 2x73.5 = 147 dmg. A heal potion restores 120 dmg.
The max for 2x(21d6) is 2x126 = 252 dmg. That means even if you roll all sixes, you're not one-rounding most optimized builds out there.

Might be counter-intuitive, but sounds about right to me.
We'll see how it translates into PvE.
While I agree with your math, I think my comment is more to the fact that a 2x 70+dmg Gonne that can’t miss and doesn’t take a weapon slot is a little bit ridiculous /when combined with the rest of the chassis/.

I understand based on one comment that 3.5 warlocks in tabletop are even better, I’ll comment that in 3.5 tabletop “pun-pun” is a buildable character… lol yes that is an extreme, but I just keep coming back to the fact that this iteration of warlock feels over the top for the current Arelith that we all play on.

I /love/ the amount of work and toys and lore that went into this class, it was clearly a passion for some folks. Frankly, I’m wildly jealous that /all/ the classes aren’t as ridiculously deep and complex as this. I’m just seeing a “one of these things is not like the other” situation. There’s just too many cookies for me to feel like this fits in our current mechanics. But again I’ve not played one on live or pvp’d against one as a non-warlock. I can comment that warlock vs warlock pvp is madness (definitely fun). I just don’t see the other citizens of arelith being able to keep up with them.

Itikar
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by Itikar » Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:19 pm

Archnon wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:10 pm
See the unseen - This is one of those where I am sure I missed some comments but this is a huge boon. Perma see invis is a bit wild. Perhaps a See invis ability that is rounds/level with a 10 minute cooldown. I'd even get rid of the infinicast see invis from the pacts. Give em an extra zoo buff instead.
Right now many casters can already, and do already, keep See Invisibility on 24/7, it's a turns/levels spell, so on a level 25+ spellcaster it comes rather natural. There is even a bardsong that provides it, and it's a very popular song for stationary bards. And then there is true seeing, that is also turns/levels and which is kept always on by many spellcasters again.

Overall I would never take See the Unseen as a feat already right now, because of this. Making it on cooldown or lasting rounds/level would frankly turn it into a joke of a feat.

On the other hand, there is merit in replacing See Invisibility with an animal buff for the pacts. It is not a spell that makes much sense to be infinitely cast, and it can be even redundant for the warlocks that take true seeing. But this would essentially be a buff to those pacts, especially to Star Pact which already gets two pacted zoo buffs.

In conclusion, the concern about see invisibility seems frankly out of proportion, in the greater context of the server.

It remains that consumables with See Invisibility last really too short, and I feel that their caster level should be increased, by quite a bit, to make mundanes more balanced with casters. But this is not really an issue related to warlocks.

In general, anyway, I don't see how invisibility can be currently seen in any shape or form as an ability that should allow to elude a watchful and prepared observer. Not even remotely close and not for how the spells that can pierce it are currently balanced. Warlocks or not.
Overpowered:
Metamagic - Being able to infinicast metamagic spells is a bit insane. Especially with the suit of other benefits that these pacts get. You hit a point where everything you cast is either empowered or extended.
This is true, even though for many spells it also does not make a difference, given the duration will be already much beyond needed already on the base spell. There are some bad offenders, such as Haste on the feylock that with extend can cheat the cooldown timer. I.e. extended haste lasts six minutes for a level 30 warlock, but the cooldown is three minutes. It would seem logical that these spells on cooldown should have an extended cooldown if used as extended.

Empower has also a similar problem, except bigger, because every empowered spell, except the few that really benefit from being extended, is effectively better than the base spell period.

On the other hand, it must be said that it is sensible that a feat provides a benefit, although on some spells it seems a very big benefit for very little cost, since warlocks do not really /use/ spell slots for their pact spells.
Weird:
I don't understand the undying pact. The need to hit 20 Con and 18 charisma means you end up really tanking your dex making your range touch attack a lot less reliable. Though perhaps I am not seeing something.
My understanding is that not all warlocks need a very high amount of dexterity, and some might prefer to even neglect it to focus on tankiness and hideous blow. I saw some of those builds on PGCC and they seem quite interesting and fresh. The thing that I like the most of this rework is that while some avenues are encouraged, such as having high charisma, they are by no means the only way to build a viable version of the class. I really wish some other classes, like monks or bards to name two, were designed with a similar mentality, instead of encouraging mainly one way to build them.

a shrouded figure
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Re: Some warlock feedback

Post by a shrouded figure » Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:45 pm

Just some more feedback as I dive deeper into the other pacts…

Seriously Star?

Let’s see… where do I begin.

Concentration +9… yah I would want that- I hate being interrupted.

Mmm damage shield when I blast, check.

Oh yah, black archers do kinda hurt, better take a permanent 50% concealment vs ranged, noice.

+5 lore and +5 spellcraft for free? Duh? I’m gonna need to WoF.

Ahh… I mean I can infi cast see invis but I’ll just take the feat for permanent see invis. QoL, you know.

Sheeeeyt… with all this badass stuff you /know/ I ain’t scarred of anything, fear immune is practically a given.

Ok so that’s looking good- but what about spells… I mean you /know/ I’m infi hasting… ah.. the villagers didn’t like that huh? Ok well fine, I’ll give up infinite haste for eye bite. Happy?

I mean, it’s not like this comes together ever…

No one would ever imagine lowering saves by 4 with hex… then crippling willpower with infinite casts of mind fog… and that /certainly/ wouldn’t open the door
for the incredible cheese that is inficasting dark bolts that just happen to stun on a failed will save that I’ve now nuked into the ground…

[Edited to cut back on sarcasm]

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