Arelith

The city of Andunor...is drowning in them. And even on the Surface, their value has plummeted massively down to 50k gold from what used to be 100k. I think we could just use some more recipes with this in it! Beljuril gems on the other hand are considered far more difficult to acquire via shopping, and far more expensive, as well as more wanted for recipes. I could be wrong, but I had thought bejuril gems and rogue gems were of essentially the same value tier, so it would make sense to me to get them equally involved in recipes as bejuril gems are.

The entire time I've played here I've never seen rogue stones for 100k. They were 50k, and the price kept dropping. I don't even bother trying to sell them anymore. For a while I tried making sorcerer staves out of them to sell but it's a lot of crafting points I could be spending on other stuff instead.

I agree, it'd be nice to see more uses for them. When I find elk stones, the only one I don't want is the rogue stone one. Emeralds are worth more to me than a rogue stone.

PLEASE

Would be kind of nice to see more recipes, yes, but I think this is a part of a larger problem.

That being total saturation.

Not to go on too much of a tangent, but the markets are all totally oversaturated with hundreds of runes and random materials, rogue stones included, that never seem to sell while stockpiles continue to grow and grow.

Most the time I just have to end up vendoring anything but tier 3 runes because you can't even give this stuff away for free - it's often just inventory clutter.

There was a thread a while ago about introducing recipes to break this stuff down or combine them into better versions to cut down on the bloated market - maybe it's worth another consideration - although I'd be in greater favor of breaking stuff down into common items like regular gems rather than making Uber runes out of this enormous backlog.

So while a rogue stone, by and large, has little to no functional value out of their niche craftables - it would be nice if they could be cut down into something like 1 of each of the valuable normal gems or something vaguely useful and disposable like a consolation prize.

I'd like to see such a thing for all these materials. I hate carrying around a 6 pound chardalyn stone pretending it has value until I finally shed my delusions of hope and simply just vendor it for 350 gold to free up space/carry weight.

Party in the forest at midnight wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:32 pm

The entire time I've played here I've never seen rogue stones for 100k. They were 50k, and the price kept dropping. I don't even bother trying to sell them anymore. For a while I tried making sorcerer staves out of them to sell but it's a lot of crafting points I could be spending on other stuff instead.

I agree, it'd be nice to see more uses for them. When I find elk stones, the only one I don't want is the rogue stone one. Emeralds are worth more to me than a rogue stone.

Idk on the price I quoted, honestly. Ive been on the server a long time, but my memory is not exactly what I'd call stellar on certain details.

And yeah, honestly. I could do something with emeralds, and I need more than one of them. Rogue stones is like-Ive seen over two dozen in the shops across Andunor concurrently, and also...I'm carrying two of them in my gem pouch and I couldn't get rid of them if I wanted to. I tried.

Skibbles wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:01 am

Would be kind of nice to see more recipes, yes, but I think this is a part of a larger problem.

That being total saturation.

Not to go on too much of a tangent, but the markets are all totally oversaturated with hundreds of runes and random materials, rogue stones included, that never seem to sell while stockpiles continue to grow and grow.

Most the time I just have to end up vendoring anything but tier 3 runes because you can't even give this stuff away for free - it's often just inventory clutter.

There was a thread a while ago about introducing recipes to break this stuff down or combine them into better versions to cut down on the bloated market - maybe it's worth another consideration - although I'd be in greater favor of breaking stuff down into common items like regular gems rather than making Uber runes out of this enormous backlog.

So while a rogue stone, by and large, has little to no functional value out of their niche craftables - it would be nice if they could be cut down into something like 1 of each of the valuable normal gems or something vaguely useful and disposable like a consolation prize.

I'd like to see such a thing for all these materials. I hate carrying around a 6 pound chardalyn stone pretending it has value until I finally shed my delusions of hope and simply just vendor it for 350 gold to free up space/carry weight.

Ive also realized lately that money is infinite with leadership. So acquiring any of this is effectively within reach.

I'd dig the cutting them down to become other gems. Including rogue stones in alchemy somehow otherwise would also be interesting. Wouldn't hurt to turn a rogue stone into an explosive barrel...

It would be awesome to have a use for these kinds of stones outside of just crafting, too. Maybe special doors in the module that only open up with sacrifice?

Come to the surface and you'll get all the bejurils you want.

But who's selling gem bags? I wish people made gem bags/jewelry boxes still.

I've seen at least three shops for jewelry boxes. Gem bags are a bit rarer, but you can still find it.

ltlukoziuz wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:36 am

I've seen at least three shops for jewelry boxes. Gem bags are a bit rarer, but you can still find it.

[Continues to Take 20 on their search.]

Funnily enough, gem bags are like on point in Andunor. Cheap and easy to get, they're in both the Hub and Sharps District Building.

The oversaturation with crafting components results in a buyer's market.
Lower the prices to move the merch rather than complain about inventory clutter.

-XXX- wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:29 am

The oversaturation with crafting components results in a buyer's market.
Lower the prices to move the merch rather than complain about inventory clutter.

We had this exact same conversation months ago, where I was providing feedback on saturation of low tier runic components, and possibly upgrading to higher tiers to help shift them.
The so called demand doesn't seem to exist since it's still an issue despite dropping prices and increasing supply.
How about trying a different argument instead.

Edit since Watchful glare made a good point:
The value of desired items seems to be stable/increasing.
The value of rogue stones is down to 20-30k last I did my rounds.
Compared with star sapphire and beljuril of 80-100k. It's obviously recipe driven.

I've ceased buying many things unless I'm impatient because I think most of the prices are outrageous. You are also more likely to just have an acquaitance of your character have the specific thing you are looking for sell it to you at a more reasonable price, if not for free, in any case.

Farlius wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:44 pm

Edit since Watchful glare made a good point:
The value of desired items seems to be stable/increasing.
The value of rogue stones is down to 20-30k last I did my rounds.
Compared with star sapphire and beljuril of 80-100k. It's obviously recipe driven.

Yeah, I don't think there's really an argument to be made against this point. Beljurils and Star Sapphires are used in a massive spread of epic level clothing and armor, as well as in a variety of high demand weapons and magical staves. Almost every single character is going to need to purchase or find one (or else, will be buying gear made using one.)

Rogue stones, on the other hand, are not only the most common of the 3 rare gems, they're also used in like 1/2 of the crafts. Not only are they used in significantly fewer recipes, the recipes they're used in are things like halfling-only shortswords, or kobold-only picks, stuff very few people are going to use. Or meme weapons, like cavalier weapons. Because cavaliers are memes.

There's no demand for rogue stones because there's no widespread need for rogue stones ontop of them being common as dirt.

We've talked as a team and are using rogue stones for at least the next few crafting items going in. I've also promised to throw a gigantic fit if anyone tries to put mithril dust on something new for the foreseeable future.

garrbear758 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:46 am

We've talked as a team and are using rogue stones for at least the next few crafting items going in. I've also promised to throw a gigantic fit if anyone tries to put mithril dust on something new for the foreseeable future.

Thank you garrbear, saviour of the people form the tyranny of mithdust.

garrbear758 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:46 am

We've talked as a team and are using rogue stones for at least the next few crafting items going in. I've also promised to throw a gigantic fit if anyone tries to put mithril dust on something new for the foreseeable future.

https://tenor.com/view/bow-down-worthy- ... f-15043963

Farlius wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:44 pm

-XXX- wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:29 am

The oversaturation with crafting components results in a buyer's market.
Lower the prices to move the merch rather than complain about inventory clutter.

The so called demand doesn't seem to exist since it's still an issue despite dropping prices and increasing supply.
How about trying a different argument instead.

Edit since Watchful glare made a good point:
The value of desired items seems to be stable/increasing.
The value of rogue stones is down to 20-30k last I did my rounds.
Compared with star sapphire and beljuril of 80-100k. It's obviously recipe driven.

The issue is with shop owners who are keeping the pricetags high artificially while their merch is collecting dust, all while vigilantly watching all competitors only to swoop in like a hawk the moment one of them lowers the price so that they could buy out their entire stock and keep reselling it at their artificially bloated rates.

This is also one of the main reasons why players in general would increasingly rather go grind PvE until they find what they need than buy it from a PC-owned shop.

The market is being constantly saturated by ALL kinds of crafting materials all across the board. The prices should be going down for all of them, not just rogue stones. So no, the value of desired items is not stable, it's being artificially kept high by shop owners.

Rogue stones going down in price is a result of shop owners finally having lost interest in them because
a) their use is too niche and so the chance of somebody being desperate enough to overpay for them is smaller than with other crafting components.
b) they appear as fixed loot drops IG.

-XXX- wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:46 pm

The issue is with shop owners who are keeping the pricetags high artificially while their merch is collecting dust, all while vigilantly watching all competitors only to swoop in like a hawk the moment one of them lowers the price so that they could buy out their entire stock and keep reselling it at their artificially bloated rates.

I agree this is a problem with player behavior, but, in recent times, I haven't seen it successfully controlling prices. The market is simply too saturated for any one character, or even any single merchant group, to grab everything up. Runecrafting materials, especially, have been driven into the ground by market saturation. Where most used to average 20k for T1, 100+k for T2, and 500k-1mil for T3, those prices have mostly been halved, or more. (with the obvious exception of Zardazik) There's simply no profit in doing it with anything worth less than 100k, and that covers 99% of the products that most characters will need.

Also, is it me, or did they become more common? I remember feeling them being much rarer back 2-3 years ago than what they are now. Back then, I was happy to get one rare material while leveling. Now, I got six just on one character, all in writ levels. Is there any chance that they could become rarer too, considering all the saturation?

-XXX- wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:46 pm

The market is being constantly saturated by ALL kinds of crafting materials all across the board. The prices should be going down for all of them, not just rogue stones. So no, the value of desired items is not stable, it's being artificially kept high by shop owners.

Rogue stones going down in price is a result of shop owners finally having lost interest in them because
a) their use is too niche and so the chance of somebody being desperate enough to overpay for them is smaller than with other crafting components.
b) they appear as fixed loot drops IG.

Agreed. There isn't much downward pressure on the economy in general because unlike real life, it costs vendors very little/low risk to hold items indefinitely. That said I'd wager nobody comes to Arelith to play Economy Simulator so I doubt it will change anytime soon, but I do think it's partially why this problem pops up time to time.

So afaik no one ever said all 'rare' gems should have the similar values. I dont see a problem that one is worth 100k and another is worth 50k.

However, I read this...

Party in the forest at midnight wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:32 pm

Emeralds are worth more to me than a rogue stone.

This is a red flag that recipes need some review. And as Kenji said in the FS helmet thread, some of the high end items of the new classes will be reviewed so switching out some belijuril gems for rogue stones might just do the trick.

I finally figured out what to do with one of my two rogue stones.

I'd probably still trade the other one for a single emerald.

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:52 pm

So afaik no one ever said all 'rare' gems should have the similar values. I dont see a problem that one is worth 100k and another is worth 50k.

However, I read this...

Party in the forest at midnight wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:32 pm

Emeralds are worth more to me than a rogue stone.

This is a red flag that recipes need some review. And as Kenji said in the FS helmet thread, some of the high end items of the new classes will be reviewed so switching out some belijuril gems for rogue stones might just do the trick.

I agree with all of this, although while we're talking about the crafting system, from what I can recall the number of crafting points involved in making most items is dependent on the game-given value for that item, and within that final item's category, the crafting point cost scales upwards with the item value appropriately.

However, from the other part I recall, this does not look at the crafting point expenditures for the prerequisite materials, which still have to be spent somewhere along the path of creation, even if you buy the finished products, and they also don't necessarily take into account the rarity of some of the items involved underneath them- a great example is the recipe for a portal lens- which requires you to go out, collect raw diamonds, rubies, and emeralds, spend the crafting points necessary to make them into refined + dust, and then use more crafting points to make an item you can get for less than 2k. My character was literally scolded for wasting valuable resources and time on this when he did it, because the dusts can be used for other things that are considered much harder to come by.

I think a good solution to that dilemma is that crafted items should be able to be sold to NPC shops at a percentage of their full item value by the (final) crafter, uncapped by the normal shop caps, and that their final value should be determined as a composite of both the number of total crafting points involved in making the end product and the rarity of all ingredients included in the chain - and then I think prices for everything in shops should be increased across the board by a proportional amount to accommodate the gold influx in the economy.

These items, when sold, would ideally remain in the appropriate vendor's inventory until a reset or until someone pays full value + rarity charge for the item (thus incentivizing both sides to seek each other out rather than always dumping into or scouting out the npc vendors).

Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:00 pm

However, from the other part I recall, this does not look at the crafting point expenditures for the prerequisite materials, which still have to be spent somewhere along the path of creation, even if you buy the finished products, and they also don't necessarily take into account the rarity of some of the items involved underneath them- a great example is the recipe for a portal lens- which requires you to go out, collect raw diamonds, rubies, and emeralds, spend the crafting points necessary to make them into refined + dust, and then use more crafting points to make an item you can get for less than 2k. My character was literally scolded for wasting valuable resources and time on this when he did it, because the dusts can be used for other things that are considered much harder to come by.

You need 4 emeralds to make an essence that sells for 20K-ish, not even including other ingredients. You can use two raw emeralds to make 10 dust and 1 gem, so selling 10 portal lenses for about 20k seems entirely reasonable. You might be surprised about just how much gem dust gets piled up in gem pouches of faction storages and there's little else to do with it other than making consumables.