After the Warlock Fad Fades...

[Hin_Justice]

So this is more suggestion than feedback but they are very much related.

At the moment, it's fun seeing a lot of people play Warlock. There's RP galore on Surface for warlocks and there's a lot a lot of open-use of EBs in Skal going on.

Once all those toons arrive on the main island, then it'll be more of a challenge, I think, because those open about being a warlock will find conflict galore. The Arcane Tower especially will hunt them down. And with so many warlocks being played right now, that is exciting.

But what about... 6 months or a year from now? Strength in numbers may not be as prevalent as it is now. Nor am I saying it'll be as it was before this last Warlock release. But I feel with this new update, we should continue to grow RP and culture with Warlocks. UD and Surface.

I had been, for a few months, mulling over suggesting an overhaul of Wharftown but I don't think we need a settlement that large. What I think would be cool, however, is maybe using Wharftown as a portal-point guarded by an NPC (like the Hag) to a secret place only Warlocks of 6+ levels can reach. Similar to how you access that secret spot for rangers and druids in one of the forests (FOIG) to take totem stuff.

Maybe call this Warlock place something like: The Conclave of Covens.

I see this place serving as a small hub of open Warlock RP (which yes, if you've outed yourself, you're gonna likely get scryed at some point). So a meeting hall, maybe an atrium of 6-8 character shops, 2-3 vendors (jewelry, clothing, arcane shop), and banker. Also a Speedy Hin/Goblin service, and maybe also a place that offers rooms for warlocks.

I do want to preface that I don't think this will negate IC consequences of Warlocks walking around openly. If anything, it'll be greater risk, because those open who get scried will accidentally let the island know about a secret conclave of covens. But not everyone wants to be a Sencliff pirate or slaver with an automatic Paladins-Must-Kill-Me tag in their description, thus not the best place to put such location.

So having a place somewhere secret to open Warlock RP, trade, and seek class crafting services among the Surface (and possibly UD) Warlocks would be good.

[Eyeliner]

Sencliff could be pirates n' warlocks and the locks could take over the Bhaalspire?

[garrbear758]

Sencliff could be pirates n' warlocks and the locks could take over the Bhaalspire?

Speaking as a player here not a dev, but I'd rather not see sencliff forced into cultists. I think a seperate warlock only area would be cool, but we do already kind of have a lot of "warlocky" areas with Balor Maw / Iron Citadel, Dis, Andunor being totally okay with them, etc.

[Archnon]

I have actually been thinking about this as well, not so much as in a "o' lord where we gonna hide from the smitadins" but more in a 'how can we leverage existing spaces to make warlock RP more interesting". Some things I came up with.

1.) There is at least 1 Hag NPC on the server that you can interact with.
2.) Dis functions essentially as a city in Hell.
3.) The Cloaker's spire has a very "star pact" feel
4.) Finally, i know there are npc's for undead stuff as well, especially related to certain streams.

Honestly, someone who knows the server way better could give a much longer list of opportunity.

All this is to say that it would be nice to see some sort of NPC Rp opportunities for warlocks at these locations. Either specialized quarters, unique questgivers, or shops that catered to locks the way the arcane tower does to mages and the grove to druids. Just something to encourage people to RP as a warlock and not just skunk it as 'I have special magic'

[Flower Power]

Outside of a few niche cases (haglocks-feylocks, feylocks-fathomless locks, etc.), I really can't see very much reason why warlocks from different pacts would especially want to work together: more often than not, they should be at odds with one another, since they serve very different masters with very different (and often mutually conflicting) goals and desires.

An area for 'all warlocks' to convene together would just be weird and contrived.

[fading]

Outside of a few niche cases (haglocks-feylocks, feylocks-fathomless locks, etc.), I really can't see very much reason why warlocks from different pacts would especially want to work together: more often than not, they should be at odds with one another, since they serve very different masters with very different (and often mutually conflicting) goals and desires.

An area for 'all warlocks' to convene together would just be weird and contrived.

Completely disagree. Their conflicting goals and desires are irrelevant in this case, warlocks band together out of need and desperation, for the sake of survival, first and foremost. It makes 100% sense, regardless of how different the motivations of their patrons are, that a group of warlocks would work together, purely for their own safety. Since the entirety of the surface world despises them.

I also think that their differences and animosity towards each other would create a much richer and diverse environment for RP. Homogenous RP groups can get quite stale in my opinion.

[Archnon]

Outside of a few niche cases (haglocks-feylocks, feylocks-fathomless locks, etc.), I really can't see very much reason why warlocks from different pacts would especially want to work together: more often than not, they should be at odds with one another, since they serve very different masters with very different (and often mutually conflicting) goals and desires.

An area for 'all warlocks' to convene together would just be weird and contrived.

I actually agree but would love to see multiple areas. A fathomless area on Sencliff, a Haglock area at the Hag... and, I'd put some big house with two wings in Dis with half being Abyssal and half being Infernal because, ya know, we all want to see them fight

[Party in the forest at midnight]

A correction: Warlocks aren't banned from the Arcane Tower. There's new rules there. I've tried getting some warlocks in after the rules changed, but nobody was willing to be an open surface warlock.

If you want to do studious magic research RP, come to the Tower.

[Skibbles]

There's a ton of areas where this can be done with just a little fixture work and an out of the way nook somewhere - of which there are a great many.

I don't see why an exclusion zone needs to be made to facilitate it, and I also can't see many reasons warlocks of all sorts of different ideologies are going to work together - just like cramming a bunch of clerics together and thinking they'll all be friends because they're 'clerics'.

If an all-warlock conclave hasn't happened naturally then I don't think it needs to happen mechanically.

Plus, once the big rush settles down, there may not be a huge population of long term warlocks to justify exclusivity anyway.

[Killer on the drive home]

I'd also note that historically, being a warlock is a great in with Underdarkers.

[DM Monkey]

Keep in mind that it absolutely makes sense for different pacted warlocks to work together. Just because the entities they are pacted to may not, doesn't mean that they are restricted in how they use these powers. They could be, also, if you want to make that a part of your own pact! In general, your characters is given these powers and can continue to make their own decisions regarding them (which is usually a key driving force in the path towards evil).

[Skibbles]

Ya I wasn't saying warlocks wouldn't have reason to work together, but the question to me is: are they working together because they picked the same class or because they're evil and have villainous plans.

I'm aware both can be the case, but I feel like it would most often be the latter because as far as I know a 'warlock' is just a path or practice of power and not a central ideology compared to another class like druid which may have different methods but share a general philosophy which made them a druid in the first place.

Unless I'm wrong about the above then I just...can't get into it when there are plenty of alternatives like a guildhouse or spooky meetings in a dark corner of the Shadow Plane.

Plus you just know there's gonna be those instances where people start doing 'purity checks' by seeing if you can pass through the warlock gateway before being accepted into the fold like have been done with altar consecration, etc.

[Duchess Says]

There's a ton of areas where this can be done with just a little fixture work and an out of the way nook somewhere - of which there are a great many.

I don't see why an exclusion zone needs to be made to facilitate it, and I also can't see many reasons warlocks of all sorts of different ideologies are going to work together - just like cramming a bunch of clerics together and thinking they'll all be friends because they're 'clerics'.

If an all-warlock conclave hasn't happened naturally then I don't think it needs to happen mechanically.

Plus, once the big rush settles down, there may not be a huge population of long term warlocks to justify exclusivity anyway.

I do see your point and it's a good one, but at the same time things like that don't happen naturally on a big scale (or last when they do, unless devs build something permanent to support the RP)

I don't see warlocks of the surface networking well enough to say "let's meet at Applebees on Tuesday nights" and the word will get out to all of them. It's a solitary or persecuted existence after all. It works better if it's nudged along by a little OOC knowledge and a place to meet that's a permanent part of the module. Might be something New Guildorand could use? I hate to bring up Warcraft but the warlock room under a tavern in Stormwind is kind of cool (and I guess there are a few equivalents on Arelith with NPCs).

Maybe deep under a bookstore in the city there could be an unsavory occult alternative to Radiant Heart that some evil clerics, tieflings, warlocks and hexblades could access...

[kinginyellow]

I agree that any RP groups that end up forming from this shouldn't really come from the introduction of new areas, but this comes from a belief that Arelith as is already has too many hubs that split the playerbase. I can actually use Dis as an example for this one. I do like the design of Dis, and I know there are Infernalists that gather there often, but at least in the past anytime I went to Dis it was empty.

This is because outside of housing, a message board, and player shops, Dis, unlike Andunor or Sibayad, has no traffic going through it. People will only go there when it is convenient to go there, I have not seen communities just stay there for long periods of time as even Infernalists will come to Andunor often as there's just more traffic there. The odds of running into people aren't always great since the only reason to go there outside of living there is to check the player shops.

Maybe if more Guildhouses were added to the server, a group of warlocks could actually try to hold onto one that isn't in an area where they'll get sieged for it. Dis could maybe have one, I don't think it does (correct me if I'm wrong). Filling the current areas with setting appropriate content might be a better move than further adding areas that may just end up going unused, or barely used.

Edit: Clarifying, since it seems I'm saying I'm not for adding new areas, but asking for new areas (Guildhouses).

Don't add super specific themed new areas in the corners of the server that won't be used unless that niche is being actively played, instead fill existing wilderness areas with guildhouses that could fit more than one specific character concept.

[Duchess Says]

Yes but traffic is only one part of the equation. You can say nobody uses the Cordor theater or Brogdenstein is dead or the Groves above or below are empty because much of the time nobody's there waiting for someone to come along to RP with, yet I've seen them all filled to the brim when a play is put on or event or moot is arranged. Same would probably be the case for a warlock-friendly meeting place, it's not going to be bustling 24-7 but it could end up being something useful. I'd certainly try and hang out there if it was like a weird old salon filled with eccentric culty types.

[Tyrantos]

Warlocks tend to not be complete slave to the one they are pacted to- Usually its more of a buisness arrangement from my understanding. (But I guess there is exceptions). Why would a warlock not work with another pacted one? At the least they can relate to each other and trade tips!

[Skibbles]

I don't think the conversation is about why warlocks wouldn't work with each other, but about why they should work with each other so much that they need a class-specific shelter with shops and quarters that cater exclusively to their class in order to support the undefined goal of Warlocking.

Their being somewhat independent of their benefactors feels like it should be a prime argument against special treatment. Precisely because of their free agency nothing really ties them together other than the fact they both made a pact with something strong.

I believe warlocks can and should be working together when the RP calls for it, and I'd bet there's tons of circumstances where it will to glorious effect, but 'Warlock' itself isn't a central defining agenda - it is what they use 'Warlock' for that matters, and I believe there's plenty of spaces for this in the module already.

I don't feel a special bond with other Honda owners that financed through Bank of America - but I may become friends with one based on who they are and what they do. This is the important distinction of warlock agency IMO.

[-XXX-]

ATM all warlocks are being indiscriminately persecuted by all of Arelith's surface. That's as good of a reason for teaming up as any IMO.

[ltlukoziuz]

ATM all warlocks are being indiscriminately persecuted by all of Arelith's surface. That's as good of a reason for teaming up as any IMO.

It's not all. There's one welcoming place mentioned even in this thread

[Skibbles]

It sounds like some of them may need to go...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

...underground.

I'm so sorry I couldn't help it.

I don't think persecution on the surface is class specific to Warlock, the only proposed beneficiary, but we may be venturing a little too close to the locked 'Surface Evil' thread from earlier if this is the underlying current.

'ware all ye who tread there.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=32285&p=254328&hilit=Evil#p254328

[Duchess Says]

Well, look. I just think it would be really cool to have some occulty hangout place in a city like deep under a book and curios store or something where warlocks and similar are welcome to meet and greet and hold occasional moots. Doesn't need to be a whole guildhouse with merchants and all that, but it's something the surface could probably use and might bring some like to Guld. If a dev doesn't run with it they don't, maybe a player initiative can get part of the way there (just doesn't seem like it would last long or have the reach if it's just one warlock and their circle in a quarter).

I don't really get arguing against someone saying "this might be cool". That doesn't mean it's going to happen and devs are going to drop everything else to make it so. Most of the time it doesn't happen at all. So I don't see why the need to be negative about every idea you don't like on the forum, most aren't going to be reality and it's all just rando opinion anyway.

[Farlius]

If you want a place for warlocks maybe someone with a non-settlement based location can take initiatives and produce rp there, using it as a hub for warlocks.

I get the sentiment of wanting a location to call home but this is an rp driven server and changes do occur off of that, admittedly not all the time, but it does.

We also don't need safe spaces. I'm wary of the idea for anything being locked off without a method around it, even Myon has been opened up through Guldorand side, and the portal in the forest still has methods(TM). Same goes for the Grotto, though this does require a bit of effort.

[kinginyellow]

I don't really get arguing against someone saying "this might be cool". That doesn't mean it's going to happen and devs are going to drop everything else to make it so. Most of the time it doesn't happen at all. So I don't see why the need to be negative about every idea you don't like on the forum, most aren't going to be reality and it's all just rando opinion anyway.

It's not that we're being negative, its that we think the idea could be better implemented.

A guildhouse with no particular set theme, can be outfited to be used by more than one character type. And if its located in a wilderness area, would actually allow for, in this case, warlock play. But lets say that the warlocks stop playing on the surface, like often happens, or just get burnt out and go play other characters, or just decide to join the existing warlock factions. Instead of just having these areas remain that are unused, my suggestion allows for other character types to also be able to fulfil their niche by using guildhouses like this.

And even in settlement areas, I'd be all for guildhouses located in the sewers (for example) that don't follow the same eviction rules so that crime sindicates (or warlock covens) could actually exist there.

[Red_Wharf]

I like guildhouses like the Banite castle.

[Xarge VI]

I don't think it's a far stretch to have warlocks of different pacts work together. If I recall right there's even a demonologist and an infernalist drinking buddies in Dis.

Fathomless, night hag, star, fey- I don't think these powers are in active war with one another. And beyond that warlocks aren't their masters. While their minds and bodies are diluted by the eldritch usually a warlock's original goal is generally something very human. Power, greed, curiosity- Whatever. Unless their arrangements directly obligate them to attack every mortal agent of X power on sight, I don't think there's much reason not to work together in tenuous alliance. Working together allows a chance to glimpse at the other power's secrets- That can be traded for bigger lasers.