Snake Totem Feedback

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Waldo52
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Snake Totem Feedback

Post by Waldo52 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:50 pm

Let me preface my feedback by saying I love the totem animal system for rangers. It's a real common sense reform that breathes new life into the same old ranger character sheets I've been rolling for almost two decades of neverwinter. I respect all the time and effort, the unpaid or underpaid coding work that goes into this game.

With that said, the snake is a bit of a let down. There are very few non-mammal options and the token reptile is just so tiny and nondescript. I've noticed snakes in the hex adjacent to the Sencliff graveyard (they were labelled as "eels" but I know a snake when I see it) that were larger and exponentially cooler looking. It would be one thing if we were stuck with the only model the game provided us but there's a superior option slithering around the game.

fading
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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by fading » Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:47 am

Totem druid/ranger are both pretty old systems that could use a bit of polish. Totem druid is so incredibly not worth it, immense drawback for an RP skin (the polymorph is terrible because it has no penetration, unless that was changed) and a few small goodies. People will still take it because they want to RP a certain kind of druid, I know I did, sewer rat druid is cool!

Some of the models are a bit rusty, at the top of my head, wolf, panther, snake, are the most egregious offenders. And wolf has a better model too! Not sure why the white one was chosen, I suppose it looks more mystical. The panther just looks so off that it makes me sad, I believe the leopard model is better looking though. I thought the rat model was nice.

So, although a whole overhaul of the system wouldn't be unwarranted, imo, it'd be enough to just brush up on the models, and maybe adding more aesthetic choices. More lizards for sure. People already make terribly unoptimal druids for the RP, so at least having more options for RP on that devil's bargain would be good.

Oh, while I'm at it, I know it's a stretch buuut.. A swarm of insects (probably mosquitoes, I think it's already an enemy in the jungle if I'm not mistaken) would be really cool! For both totem ranger and druid *nod nod*

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Dreams
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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by Dreams » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:03 am

Totems are stupidly strong when you know what you're doing. Honestly, I think they should just have all extra abilities removed and be entirely the fluff of having an optional skinchange. No negatives, no bonuses, just the RP choice of an animal you want to focus on (along with that list of animals being expanded to as many reasonable options as possible).

fading
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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by fading » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:18 am

Dreams wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:03 am
Totems are stupidly strong when you know what you're doing. Honestly, I think they should just have all extra abilities removed and be entirely the fluff of having an optional skinchange. No negatives, no bonuses, just the RP choice of an animal you want to focus on (along with that list of animals being expanded to as many reasonable options as possible).
Genuine question, in what way are they strong? I played a totem druid up to level 16, and the polymorph shape was worthless. Immunity to disease and +4 int are nice, but I don't see that as being stupidly strong. Standard druid is just better, no? EDR ~

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Waldo52
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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by Waldo52 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 pm

fading wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:47 am

So, although a whole overhaul of the system wouldn't be unwarranted, imo, it'd be enough to just brush up on the models, and maybe adding more aesthetic choices. More lizards for sure. People already make terribly unoptimal druids for the RP, so at least having more options for RP on that devil's bargain would be good.

Oh, while I'm at it, I know it's a stretch buuut.. A swarm of insects (probably mosquitoes, I think it's already an enemy in the jungle if I'm not mistaken) would be really cool! For both totem ranger and druid *nod nod*
I was trying to hold my tongue because this is a feedback thread and not a suggestions thread, but I agree entirely with the need for more skins.

Please forgive me for using WoW as an example of competent game design but the way they handled pets was really cool. Hunters got a LOT of options and if you wanted to be the crab guy or the beetle guy you could.

Allowing for more skins really lets these old classes breathe a bit and opens up new character concepts: The dwarven mountain man with his giant mammothy looking thing, the jungle druid with his lizard, the nefarious swamp ranger with his weevil or stirge or whatever.

Again, the totem system is a big upgrade over stock neverwinter but it's a bit of a bummer that the options are so mammal-centric and that there are cases of arbitrarily weird looking or tiny models being used when better versions of the same animal exist in the game.

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Waldo52
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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by Waldo52 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:22 pm

Waldo52 wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:21 pm
fading wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:47 am

So, although a whole overhaul of the system wouldn't be unwarranted, imo, it'd be enough to just brush up on the models, and maybe adding more aesthetic choices. More lizards for sure. People already make terribly unoptimal druids for the RP, so at least having more options for RP on that devil's bargain would be good.

Oh, while I'm at it, I know it's a stretch buuut.. A swarm of insects (probably mosquitoes, I think it's already an enemy in the jungle if I'm not mistaken) would be really cool! For both totem ranger and druid *nod nod*
I agree entirely with the need for more skins.

Please forgive me for using WoW as an example of competent game design but the way they handled pets was really cool. Hunters got a LOT of options and if you wanted to be the crab guy or the beetle guy you could.

Allowing for more skins really lets these old classes breathe a bit and opens up new character concepts: The dwarven mountain man with his giant mammothy looking thing, the jungle druid with his lizard, the nefarious swamp ranger with his weevil or stirge or whatever.

Again, the totem system is a big upgrade over stock neverwinter but it's a bit of a bummer that the options are so mammal-centric and that there are cases of arbitrarily weird looking or tiny models being used when better versions of the same animal exist in the game.

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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by Glowing Mushroom » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:39 pm

I would love to see more skins for currently available totems.

The wolf is the first one that comes to mind.

Being able to choose the classic grey wolf skin instead of the white wolf would be really fun.

Or using the same mechanics for already existing totems, like panther, and offering different skins such as jaguar or lion.

Adding new mechanics for totems doesn't have to happen right away to alleviate the work load, but more skin varieties would be swell.
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MRFTW
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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by MRFTW » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:53 pm

Since the totem path for ranger is literally just reskinning pets, adding more skins would be suuuuper cool.

more totem forms for druids would also be great but since they come with mechanics and stuff I guess that's more work.

Regardless, I too think totem stuff is totally awesome, and that totem druids are both strong and unique (and also capable of getting EDR) :D

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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by Echohawk » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:57 pm

Considering they skins they did for familiar *hopeful squeak*
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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by Ork » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:45 pm

PLEASE more ranger skins! And let ranger totems change their skins!

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Jagel
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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by Jagel » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:59 am

Totem shape is situationally useful because it is very tanky. Other than that it’s pretty useles especially when compared to greater and monolith elemental shape.

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Re: Snake Totem Feedback

Post by magistrasa » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:42 pm

I agree that totems could use some polish. This is true for the skins, but I feel like it's especially true for the themes of the class.
Wolf (predator): +2 str, +2 dex, +2 spot, +2 hide, +2 move silently
Panther (sneak): +4 dex, +4 hide, +4 move silently
Spider (cunning): +2 int, immunity: poison, immunity: paralysis
Parrot (beauty): +4 cha, +8 perform
Eagle (nobility): +2 cha, +12 spot
Bear (brawn): +4 str, +4 con
Raven (lore): +2 int, +8 listen, +10 lore (character creation menu says +4 wis in-game but that is not correct)
Bat (mystery): +12 listen, Amplify 5 uses/day (character creation menu says true seeing in-game but that is not correct)
Rat (creativity): +4 int, immunity: disease
Snake (grace): +2 dex, +2 cha, immunity: disease, immunity: poison
This is going to sound weird, but the descriptive text in parentheses has always bothered me. It doesn't really follow any pattern and looks like we just played a word association game to decide what's what. And even then, the words associated are kinda weird. Rats are associated with "creativity?" I mean, sure, you're not wrong, rats are smarter than you think, but I can't help but feel like we could find a better word here. Likewise, who in the world associates snakes with "grace?" That one just feels like they worked backwards and chose a word that might justify the strange choice of stats.

I'm not really going to get into the stats myself, but it's kinda strange to me how they're just all over the place. Some options are so clearly better than others, and some are so bad that they're just straight-up a trap. I hope we at least got the bat totem's in-game description changed. I'm not saying we should go "full standardization with no deviation at all" because I do think the variety is kinda neat, but... maybe add some more skills in there other than spot, listen, and lore? Y'know, skills that are thematic and fun, like maybe rats can get search and panthers can get climb.

Also, it's amazing to me that we don't have an elk or boar totem. Magical mountain men be transforming into white stags and wild pigs allllll the time in mythology.

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