New writ "system"

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ZeroPointEnergy
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by ZeroPointEnergy » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:58 pm

Irongron wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:18 pm
ZeroPointEnergy wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:52 pm
Arelith is probably the only server with easy leveling. It's a unique niche that keeps me coming back to this server over spending 2 years on one character over on prisoners of the mists. It's a bit unfortunate this sentiment isn't shared.
To be clear I'm not advocating slow levelling, but I do nevertheless feel it can be (and possibly is) too fast.

If nothing else rapid levelling would require a rebuild of the server, to shift alnost everything towards epic level content, and remove all but top tier craftables. 3-30 in a few weeks of casual play is just way too fast (though yes, 2 years would be far too slow)
That does make sense. I doubt anyone would want it that slow anyway or else they'd be playing that server.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Eyeliner » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:07 am

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:42 pm
The notion that slower leveling = better RP is completely false. Friends I know who play on a slow leveling server regularly send me screenshots of goofy meme RP people do, like rolling perform and emoting farting the national anthem.
If there is a reason why roleplay seems "worse" it's probably because the game is less niche and has a lot more players than it used to. Or, people have rose tinted goggles and are only remembering the fun parts and not the meme RP people did 10 years ago.


I level as fast as I feel my characters need to generally. For any character that is going to be stealth or disguise dependent, they absolutely have to be high level and equipped with some level of gear just to be able to compete against already established kitted out spotters. I feel this is missing from the conversation, the idea that some concepts need skill points and equipment to be able to perform what I envision the character doing.

Leveling is a dated mechanic. The only role I've seen it play in modern games is to A) artificially stretch out game content, or B) gate expansion content in MMOs where they can tweak the numbers enough to obsolete non-expansion characters. Or to be such a slog that people will PAY to skip it. Which is already starting on Arelith, by having a level 15 start. If skipping game content is preferable to doing it, is it actually content people want to do? There's a handful of people who would say yes, because they find it cozy. And that is fair. But it's equally fair for people to not want to do it, because they have a character concept in mind and want to explore it.

Ultima Online was extremely fun and didn't rely leveling mechanics. If the entire server was shifted to be level 30 on start, dungeons could be scaled up and people would still do daily writs for gold. Writs could even change daily, so people don't do the most efficient dungeons over and over. It wouldn't kill the dungeon scene. It might make things better even, because friends could decide to go do the daily writs together. It'd be more accessible and faster than most runic dungeons, but have less payout.

I'm not saying this because I believe the change would ever happen, but moreso to try and give an example of how game content isn't tied to level.

The only thing that I think level makes a huge impact on is DMing. It's significantly easier to DM for low levels, because they generally can't 1-shot a boss mob or find ways to break an event. It's not that low levels are more behaved than high levels, it's that the ones that try to red-dead everything end up dying. It's easier to herd low levels.
+1 to all of this. Slow leveling down a little if you must but I think it's rose colored glasses to think players won't do whatever it takes to advance quickly with whatever system is available. Most of have played here for quite a while and have done the same low to mid level content so many times we aren't inspired by it so much any more, that's just what happens with a game that's been around forever.

The PGCC is completely awesome but I think it also encourages fast leveling, as you get to try out your character at max power there and it's only human nature to not want to wait months to achieve that in the actual game.

A vibrant level 15 scene probably isn't going to happen on Arelith, not the way it once did, not with so many veteran players who know the server like the back of their hand and have the level 30 version of their characters in their head the moment they create them.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:59 am

Irongron wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:28 pm
Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:36 pm
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think the most egregious aspect of this all is that there is no cap on what level you can do writ x. Same thing I said on page one before trying it, and again after I spent a week playing. Sure, the end xp could be tweaked in general, it is rather high. But I will give a perfect example of what I mean. I was 23, and thinking damn I really want this 14k xp to get to level 24 so I can make some sailing gear (because sailing rules!) so I said hmm, Morghunn probably gives a lot of end xp. 40 minutes later, after an easy stroll with a mid level character, I was level 24. Next up, I did a few easy patrol writs which were primarily resource gathering for crafting missions on my characters part, and bam, I'm 25. I mean, this new way is great for people like me who hate grinding, but I really should be fighting on level stuff to get experience in said level this quickly.
You are spot on here, and this is my only real issue with where we are with these values right now. Writ rewards should obviously not be so high that epic characters can cruise though those they skipped in return for what is effectively free xp. That's just bad design. In the UD this is much less of a problem, but on the surface I suspect everyone is doing this.

Writ rewards should (roughly) require every level appropriate available dungeon to be completed once in order to pass that level, and if they are higher than that value then the reward for doing writs below one's level should be curtailed by an appropriate value.
Perhaps as a temporary fix, while you get this new order sorted, you have diminishing returns based on how much higher you are then the recommended level. Something like 15% less for each level, can't go less then 10%. This way a level 21 character would be getting 1000 xp for a writ that would give a level 15 10000. This would likely require the recommendations to be on the top end of the level range, and for them to be far more accurate then they are now, but that's pretty easy. For the surface/cordor at least I could easily do a run down by logging in with a character and running around checking all the levels to help out on that part of the server, but it would be made even easier with a pm'd list if you have one on hand. But I think this way would accomplish what you were going for without the silly aspect.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Talvenlapsi » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:34 am

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:42 pm
The notion that slower leveling = better RP is completely false. Friends I know who play on a slow leveling server regularly send me screenshots of goofy meme RP people do, like rolling perform and emoting farting the national anthem.
If there is a reason why roleplay seems "worse" it's probably because the game is less niche and has a lot more players than it used to. Or, people have rose tinted goggles and are only remembering the fun parts and not the meme RP people did 10 years ago.


I level as fast as I feel my characters need to generally. For any character that is going to be stealth or disguise dependent, they absolutely have to be high level and equipped with some level of gear just to be able to compete against already established kitted out spotters. I feel this is missing from the conversation, the idea that some concepts need skill points and equipment to be able to perform what I envision the character doing.

Leveling is a dated mechanic. The only role I've seen it play in modern games is to A) artificially stretch out game content, or B) gate expansion content in MMOs where they can tweak the numbers enough to obsolete non-expansion characters. Or to be such a slog that people will PAY to skip it. Which is already starting on Arelith, by having a level 15 start. If skipping game content is preferable to doing it, is it actually content people want to do? There's a handful of people who would say yes, because they find it cozy. And that is fair. But it's equally fair for people to not want to do it, because they have a character concept in mind and want to explore it.

Ultima Online was extremely fun and didn't rely leveling mechanics. If the entire server was shifted to be level 30 on start, dungeons could be scaled up and people would still do daily writs for gold. Writs could even change daily, so people don't do the most efficient dungeons over and over. It wouldn't kill the dungeon scene. It might make things better even, because friends could decide to go do the daily writs together. It'd be more accessible and faster than most runic dungeons, but have less payout.

I'm not saying this because I believe the change would ever happen, but moreso to try and give an example of how game content isn't tied to level.

The only thing that I think level makes a huge impact on is DMing. It's significantly easier to DM for low levels, because they generally can't 1-shot a boss mob or find ways to break an event. It's not that low levels are more behaved than high levels, it's that the ones that try to red-dead everything end up dying. It's easier to herd low levels.

This pretty much summarizes everything I have in my head for this conversation. Well put.
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Irongron » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:13 am

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:42 pm
The notion that slower leveling = better RP is completely false. Friends I know who play on a slow leveling server regularly send me screenshots of goofy meme RP people do, like rolling perform and emoting farting the national anthem.
If there is a reason why roleplay seems "worse" it's probably because the game is less niche and has a lot more players than it used to. Or, people have rose tinted goggles and are only remembering the fun parts and not the meme RP people did 10 years ago.


I level as fast as I feel my characters need to generally. For any character that is going to be stealth or disguise dependent, they absolutely have to be high level and equipped with some level of gear just to be able to compete against already established kitted out spotters. I feel this is missing from the conversation, the idea that some concepts need skill points and equipment to be able to perform what I envision the character doing.

Leveling is a dated mechanic. The only role I've seen it play in modern games is to A) artificially stretch out game content, or B) gate expansion content in MMOs where they can tweak the numbers enough to obsolete non-expansion characters. Or to be such a slog that people will PAY to skip it. Which is already starting on Arelith, by having a level 15 start. If skipping game content is preferable to doing it, is it actually content people want to do? There's a handful of people who would say yes, because they find it cozy. And that is fair. But it's equally fair for people to not want to do it, because they have a character concept in mind and want to explore it.

Ultima Online was extremely fun and didn't rely leveling mechanics. If the entire server was shifted to be level 30 on start, dungeons could be scaled up and people would still do daily writs for gold. Writs could even change daily, so people don't do the most efficient dungeons over and over. It wouldn't kill the dungeon scene. It might make things better even, because friends could decide to go do the daily writs together. It'd be more accessible and faster than most runic dungeons, but have less payout.

I'm not saying this because I believe the change would ever happen, but moreso to try and give an example of how game content isn't tied to level.

The only thing that I think level makes a huge impact on is DMing. It's significantly easier to DM for low levels, because they generally can't 1-shot a boss mob or find ways to break an event. It's not that low levels are more behaved than high levels, it's that the ones that try to red-dead everything end up dying. It's easier to herd low levels.

While I can see you have a lot of positive feedback on this post I do have to take issue with a whole chunk of it.

First off, this isn't Ultima, it's D&D, and levelling is a core part of that. You seem to making an argument here that a level 30 start server could still be a lot of fun, or even that Arelith could, at least partially, become one is rapid levelling is left in place.

This place has been 20 years in the making, retooling the entire thing to be a level 30 server and thus remaking D&D into a new game is obviously never going to happen, irrespective of whether it is a better system, and if we do leave a system in place that leaves large parts of content essentially redundant, not doing leaves its own problems; Arelith simply isn't designed for a '30 in a month' playstyle. (EDIT: I know it can be done, and was beforehand, I just don't want it as the norm. Right now getting to teens is really just a few days, even for a relatively casual player.)

The other point I want to counter is the quality of RP thing. Sure, I agree, there is no reason a decent roleplayer isn't going to do just as good a job at roleplaying an archmage as an apprentice, but it's what is being roleplayed that matters here, and I personally don't want to play on a server populated by two thousand superheroes.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by -XXX- » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:39 am

IMO max level start is not a good idea.
I have checked a few max lvl servers over the years and noticed that they had one thing in common - an apparent lack of character agency - toons just standing around idly all day, waiting for a fleeting distraction in the form of the odd mover-shaker.

I think that the most glaring flaw that Arelith currently has is the difficulty of the PvE content (or rather the lack of thereof). PvE has become so easy that I often see players struggling for excuses why to team up and not tackle PvE solo.
This concerns the writs and character progression in general, because when the entire leveling experience can be approached as a form of a single player game, it can get very old really fast (especially when doing it for the 10th time).

Players crave novelty - that's why IMO the sailing system was such a big success and that's also why there is a general desire for faster lvling. Personally, I don't get the "I can't wait to lvl up this new build I'm so hyped about!" urge while there's the PGCC. Maybe copy-pasting some Arelith live endgame dungeons onto the PGCC might alleviate this.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Archnon » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:00 pm

So having played a little more, I can recognize some of the concerns people are listing. It is really nice being able to level up quickly. However, it is a bit wonky moving your epic through the cordor sewers. That being said, here are a few thoughts.

1.) Don't change anything yet. Some of the epics in non-epic content is likely merely driven by this being a transition period. If you are sitting on a level 21 from before the change, odds are you did it grinding a handful of writs. The new system prevents this, which is great, but it also means there are a lot of early epic characters sitting on open writs. Once they move through, I think this will be less of a problem.

2.) I just leveled up on Skal and the experience there was, by the end, great. The early writs left a bit of a gap that forced you to seek some help to get ready for those mid-tier skal writs. You hit 5 and you are sitting on writs that are tough at 5. That being said, I think Skal might provide a model to solve some of these issues.

The problem is 1.) We want to level people quickly through the early phase to let them get into some of their builds capacity, but 2.) we don't want it to be level 30 in 2 weeks for casual players (it is not under the current system, this is an exaggeration, especially for new players). 3.) We want to encourage people to take on content that is fitting for their level.

I think one way to balance these three things is to take advantage of the existing starting system, ala Skal. the Skal writs by themselves, will easily take you to level 16 just off writs. However, on the main island, you could then bounce around and do all the other writs for 0-16 for good XP. On skal, you can't.

Perhaps a more direct writ system tied to starting location would be key:
1.) Provide early level high XP writs with enough work to get you to level 14 at all starting locations. However, make it so you can only take early writs at your starting location. If you start in Brog, you level up in Brog/Bendir. Same with Cordor. If you take the Guld start, you are barred from these early level writs.

2.) Provide access for all writs level 14+ to all players (UD and surface restrictions preserved).

What this does is 1.) Limits the XP you can get from 'easy' writs while also providing fast leveling to 14 2.) Encourages you to learn a starting area before exploring the island, fostering RP with other people you started with. Essentially, it makes your starting location an RP decision and not a power decision (some areas would need to be balanced as some have easier writs) 3.) Preserves leveling speed outside of the early writs but does so by compelling you to take level appropriate writs instead of cheesing the early writs across the server. 4.) Reduces the Guld start back to its old position as opposed to an easy way to really cheese writ XP.

Just an idea. Overall, please don't get rid of the quick leveling, especially up to level 16. That is a really good point to actually be into the character and have enough of the skills and stuff to give you some personality backing. However, respect for the problem of cheesing writs right now. It is a tough balance.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Valrean » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:56 pm

I absolutely fail to see the problem with faster leveling.

People are now actually willing to try builds that are less than optimal because you don't have to waste too much time with leveling. Dungeons (all of them) seem to now be populated or at least you can run into people there while previous to this change such a thing rarely happened because the people were doing the same dungeons over and over again.

If you want to be a Crafter that focuses less on fighting without going down the Commoner route you can now also do this just by doing two or three writs a day and then RP the rest of the time without slowing yourself down to an insane degree.

People are arguing that Arelith was always supposed to be a slower paced server but Arelith was also a HAKless server for the longest time. My point with that statement? Things change, Arelith changed and I really don't see how other people leveling faster negatively impacts you.

Put a cap on the Writs that prevents you from doing that if you are 5 or 6 level above them but more is not really needed in my eyes.

There is zero RP value in reducing the Writ XP and forcing people to return to Circle Grinding.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by White Haven » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:39 pm

Level 30 is the baseline of activity on Arelith. It always has been, and it always will be, no matter how many obstacles you try to put in the way, no matter how you try to slow it down. You always were able to get to 30 in a month, this just made it much more accessible to people that don't have the time to sink into dedicated circlegrinding or the builds suited to doing so, which can only be a good thing.

I'm just going to come out and say that Arelith is terrible for lower level characters, no matter how you try to romanticize it. Even from an RP perspective, there is a feeling of exclusion the friends you've made go off on an adventure someplace too dangerous for you, and everyone is keenly aware of the level imbalance in roleplay.

I, for one, have felt invigorated by the change. I have little time due to my little ones, but I can still progress my character at a decent pace while still having time for roleplay, and even make new ones! In the end, it's the roleplay that matters to me, not some arbitrary tax on time/effort spent doing (rpless or rp worth-less) xp gathering before a character can become relevant.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Ebonstar » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:30 pm

I have found one major drawback to the new system

lately Cordor has had issues with a trio of troll players who have used the new system to get to 30 in days and now have perfect murder toons.

they come in murder everyone they can see and flee, no rp just sneak in unseen warded to the hilt and if spotted its a fiasco. no npc respect, no dm oversight for attacking a settlement, no nothing. If they die they shrug it off and return every few days to cause more havok.

they abused the system and its now their playground.

This is one reason why speed leveling is awful. Most times before trolls gave up in a day once they found out they couldnt do their damage, and they would leave or the DMs would catch them. Now this example and few others who have done the same are about and avoiding facing consequences.
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Watchful Glare » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:50 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:30 pm
I have found one major drawback to the new system

lately Cordor has had issues with a trio of troll players who have used the new system to get to 30 in days and now have perfect murder toons.

they come in murder everyone they can see and flee, no rp just sneak in unseen warded to the hilt and if spotted its a fiasco. no npc respect, no dm oversight for attacking a settlement, no nothing. If they die they shrug it off and return every few days to cause more havok.

they abused the system and its now their playground.

This is one reason why speed leveling is awful. Most times before trolls gave up in a day once they found out they couldnt do their damage, and they would leave or the DMs would catch them. Now this example and few others who have done the same are about and avoiding facing consequences.
Rather than an issue about the writ system, this seems an issue with the players themselves. Something like this should be reported, as they are likely to try and exploit anything they should get their hands on with this type of behavior. I can see the DMs cracking down really hard on these sort of things.
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Ebonstar » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:51 pm

Watchful Glare wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:50 pm
Ebonstar wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:30 pm
I have found one major drawback to the new system

lately Cordor has had issues with a trio of troll players who have used the new system to get to 30 in days and now have perfect murder toons.

they come in murder everyone they can see and flee, no rp just sneak in unseen warded to the hilt and if spotted its a fiasco. no npc respect, no dm oversight for attacking a settlement, no nothing. If they die they shrug it off and return every few days to cause more havok.

they abused the system and its now their playground.

This is one reason why speed leveling is awful. Most times before trolls gave up in a day once they found out they couldnt do their damage, and they would leave or the DMs would catch them. Now this example and few others who have done the same are about and avoiding facing consequences.
Rather than an issue about the writ system, this seems an issue with the players themselves. Something like this should be reported, as they are likely to try and exploit anything they should get their hands on with this type of behavior. I can see the DMs cracking down really hard on these sort of things.
we have always had trolls like this, except that now they can be truly destructive in a matter of days rather than getting bored knowing they would need months to get to level 30 the way they play and leave on their own. these players dont come here to rp or to add to any storylines, they come simply to wreak havok
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by RUNGRIND » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:57 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:51 pm
Watchful Glare wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:50 pm
Ebonstar wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:30 pm
I have found one major drawback to the new system

lately Cordor has had issues with a trio of troll players who have used the new system to get to 30 in days and now have perfect murder toons.

they come in murder everyone they can see and flee, no rp just sneak in unseen warded to the hilt and if spotted its a fiasco. no npc respect, no dm oversight for attacking a settlement, no nothing. If they die they shrug it off and return every few days to cause more havok.

they abused the system and its now their playground.

This is one reason why speed leveling is awful. Most times before trolls gave up in a day once they found out they couldnt do their damage, and they would leave or the DMs would catch them. Now this example and few others who have done the same are about and avoiding facing consequences.
Rather than an issue about the writ system, this seems an issue with the players themselves. Something like this should be reported, as they are likely to try and exploit anything they should get their hands on with this type of behavior. I can see the DMs cracking down really hard on these sort of things.
we have always had trolls like this, except that now they can be truly destructive in a matter of days rather than getting bored knowing they would need months to get to level 30 the way they play and leave on their own. these players dont come here to rp or to add to any storylines, they come simply to wreak havok
I don't think you realize something. It took under 2 weeks before writs existed, to hit level 30 for people who knew what they were doing. Writs aren't the issue. They never have been.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Inordinate » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:06 pm

For this specific issue the writs aren't the problem. Don't shift the blame because it just happens to be less time consuming for them to troll. Report them to the DM team and they'll handle it.
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Duchess Says » Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:41 pm

Really don't believe anyone is getting to 30 in "days" with the new system. A week or two, OK but just doing your three writs a day isn't going to propel you to 30 in less than a week even with XP raised.

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by ltlukoziuz » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:25 pm

Duchess Says wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:41 pm
Really don't believe anyone is getting to 30 in "days" with the new system. A week or two, OK but just doing your three writs a day isn't going to propel you to 30 in less than a week even with XP raised.
It totally does. Just writs themselves are 2 levels, heck, even three if doing it in group so you can do hard content quickly a day. Then add your usual grinding and boosted adventure xp, and its definitely FAST. I have a shelved char who is lvl 21 in just 6 days of writting and 1 day of RP, and I didnt do a single extra dungeon.


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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Duchess Says » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:51 pm

Not sure what your "usual grind" is, I don't really grind at all but if you put in hours doing that after the writs that's not the writ system's fault. I'll grant that if you're getting help from from an epic and doing writs way beyond your level that could be a way to do it, I didn't consider that.

Doing three level appropriate writs a day solo or with a similarly leveled partner has certainly sped along advancement on my alt in a very welcome way (as in, I wouldn't have time to play them at all otherwise) but that alone would never get me to 30 in less than a week. If people are leveling too fast we should look at the big picture, like how much an epic benefactor can help (for example, not saying that's the problem or the only problem, of if there even is a problem frankly).

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Re: New writ "system"

Post by ltlukoziuz » Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:12 pm

Depends what you call level appropriate dungeons - but usually, it's 2-3 hours to clear the three writ dungeons, which then gives anywhere from ~6k to ~25-30k just in writ xp (then add adventure and combat xp you get - and you can leave '-adventure' off because of: a) Writ adv xp is too generous; b) Yellow names are plentiful). So in a day, that's two-three levels constantly. And after that, some folk just continue circlegrinding - heck, it always was a thing and there's no reason why it shouldn't stay on. And before circlegrinders could do it in roughly 10-15 days, depending on build/partner availability. Now it's probably yeah, 4-7 days (but they are spending most of the day in game).

But as other folk have said - this has happened before writs were thing, this will happen even if they get nerfed. Just report and move on, writ system is not what causes fault here. Such trolls would usually have perseverance to wait week-two anyway, truly "embracing" "RP starts at 30" mentality personally.


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Re: New writ "system"

Post by La Villa Strangiato » Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:33 am

Duchess Says wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:41 pm
Really don't believe anyone is getting to 30 in "days" with the new system. A week or two, OK but just doing your three writs a day isn't going to propel you to 30 in less than a week even with XP raised.
I knew someone who remade their character and levelled back to 30 in a matter of... three days, I think it was?

To be fair, this person had done all their RL stuff beforehand and set aside a bunch of time to grind all the way to 30 within three days, but it can happen. People could grind to 30 within a week before the writ change, as well. It'll always happen.
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98lbs of sad carryweight
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by 98lbs of sad carryweight » Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:52 am

The first time I made a proper char with a actually functional build it took me about 9 or 10 days of leveling to get to 30. This was mostly done by rushing 3 writs and then circle grinding content way below my level. If I'd do it now I likely would do it faster and with some builds it already happend.
The major difference now is that you get to 30 in a reasonable time while mostly having the free space to focus on RP.

The only tweak I could see that would be healthy is to lower the exp a little bit for the surface but not by much so you do more writs in total, although you likely still outpace it by running content twice to help out.
That's partially due to Surface having access to a lot of writ locations where you with relative ease will not ever complete every writ unless you nerf them into making mindless grind simply more effective again. At best I'd say you are about 15% or so faster than the writ progression and on occation skip a few by doing writless content, especially in epics where runic runs exist.

If there are trolls you should report that to the DM team but being mechanically easier to deal with doesn't discourage them either. They will be 30 in a week or 3 weeks and still cause the same issues.
They also could lay waste to lower level areas like Skal or the lower level population of the server anyway.

I do really love how writs are now, one time with good rewards makes you go around arelith and form different groups. It's amazing as an experience now IMO.

TL;DR Someone will always be 30 in 3 days, being level 10 or 20 will not make someone malicious unable to grief. Use report tools, otherwise it's probably not grief.

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Aren
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Aren » Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:53 am

This update has made circle grinding superfluous. This is a good thing.

".. the other number that isn't 18." - Jack Oat
".. but- someone is still pumping the brakes sometimes, right? ...right?" - Batcountry


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Electro Kiwi
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Electro Kiwi » Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:06 pm

I think the new writ system supports both play types.

If you want to grind to 30 in two weeks, go ahead.

If you want to RP much more along the way and take your time, go ahead. The system will still support you plenty.

Unless we are seeing a huge influx in 30s everywhere, I really like where the system is at right now. Doing a writ once for a big chunk of Exp and then not worrying about it again is far superior than doing the same writ over and over again for 750 exp instead.

In fact I think slower leveling is what encourages grinding more, since it's such a chore to get out of the way.

"No RP til 30" is an extremely vocal minority, I do not see that coming from most players. I find that most players will take their time and RP along the way with the writs in between. But if you really want to get it out of the way, you have that option. The speed of the new system encourages both sides, rather than groaning at the thought of a huge grind ahead the moment you start.

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Skarain
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Skarain » Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:05 am

I have enjoyed the new system on a surface character so far.

The fact that each writ can only be completed once removes the need to rush the "quick and easy" writs over and over, every day. The psychological pressure that you're being left behind if you don't "do your daily quest" is gone. I just do level-appropriate writs when I have the time from real life, going between different writ locations to find the easier ones in relation to my current level.

However, a player who does not know all the different writ locations may be at an disadvantage. They do not know to search between Cordor, Mayfield, Crow's Nest, Bendir, Brog, Sibayad, Minmir, Guldorand. They CAN of course ask other PC' for guidance. With the spirit of RP realms in mind, that may be a better option, than to have writ agents recommend other locations. The later removes any need for interaction with players, which is probably not something that should be encouraged.

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Aren
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by Aren » Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:39 pm

Aren wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:53 am
This update has made circle grinding superfluous. This is a good thing.
I would like to elaborate on this.

Personally, I absolutely adore the writ changes as they are right now.
My personal issue has been, and always will be I'm sure, that I get inspiration spurts, where I want to make a short lived character and do a minor story and then roll it once the arc has been done. Back before this update, that process was very taxing as it involved quite a bit of circle grinding - something I did not enjoy in it self, but endured to get to play my character. I would eventually burn out from doing this and stop playing altogether.
The way writs currently work, allow for people to roll characters more easily once their story is done - since the player won't have to endure countless hours of mindless circle grinds. I think that in itself is an overall healthy change to the server.
It also allows for people with less time on their hands, to achieve level 30 without having to resort to immersion-breaking circle-run-grinding.

With this update, I have seen more of the server in a few months than I have in the past 4 years of playing. I have done writs and and visited places I would never have 6 months ago.

Please keep it the way it is - and don't believe the hyperbole when people are saying someone achieved level 30 in 3 days. You are still limited to three writs per day.

".. the other number that isn't 18." - Jack Oat
".. but- someone is still pumping the brakes sometimes, right? ...right?" - Batcountry


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-XXX-
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Re: New writ "system"

Post by -XXX- » Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:39 pm

Aren wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:53 am
This update has made circle grinding superfluous. This is a good thing.
I wouldn't say that's the case.

Hyper fast leveling results in a paradigm shift towards the Fixed Level concept.
For those who don't know - before EE there used to be a server called Arelith Fixed Level. The setting was Arelith set in distant past and it had both a lvl cap of 10 and a mandatory PvP MoD. New characters got bumped to max lvl upon creation so there was this illusion of equality among characters, BUT this was fairly deceptive as it was possible to buy epic feats and hilariously powerful equipment with coin. This meant that the server essentially supplanted XP with GP - and if the player attention for this concept teaches us anything, it's that it didn't work as the server used to be empty most of the time.

Reaching lvl 30 is hardly the final destination for most characters - optimal builds still require optimized gear. That often requires expensive top tier crafting components like runic materials, adamantine, mithril dust, rare gems and stuff like that. Even enchanting items in the basin requires a lot of coin, so bumping characters to max lvl swiftly does supplant XP with GP here as well.

Fast leveling does not make circle grinding go away. Players do still circle grind - not for XP but for GP and crafting materials.
What might seem like the end of circle grinding at first glance is a mere relocation of the most notorious circle grinding venues from areas that offer easy XP to places with easily reachable top tier crafting resources.

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