New writ "system"

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Making a code change is objectively more effort on a dev's time than you just not taking the writ, turning on -adventure, and pretending like you took it when you go out.

"Making a change to code is more effort than not making a change to code"

Man why didn't I think of that

I mean, it sounds like you are asking the devs to do lots of extra work to appease you and maybe 10 or 20 other players (out of what, two thousand?) who don't like faster leveling, instead of just taking the other options laid out before you. But that can't be right, can it? No one is -that- self absorbed, its just impossible.

[ElvenEdibles]

maybe 10 or 20 other players

source? assumption?

asking the devs to do lots of extra work

I think I'll wait for a Developer familiar with the system to comment (or not) about the amount of work actually involved since I sincerely doubt anyone who has commented about how much work it would be, actually knows for sure how much work it would be.

No one is -that- self absorbed,

Says the guy going out of their way to poop on a suggestion that would in no way harm their enjoyment, claiming without evidence it would be too much work. lol

[Irongron]

I don't think this is a topic where we really need to be rude or dismissive with each other.

For what it is worth I am definitely not a fan of fast levelling, and am a bit uncomfortable to read so many players implying that levelling is a chore that they need to complete in order to roleplay. The ovewhelming majority of the server is built for players LESS than level 30, with the majority there for levels 1-15. Fast levelling makes that redundant, as well as a lot of our craftable content.

Personally I find fast levelling takes the challenge out of the game, and while it may be popular for a time, will ultimately lead to a drop in player numbers. If I'm correct this will be borne out, very soon, by the data, where we will see the server populated by level 30 characters, with very few below that number.

I may be in a minority in my love of low level adventuring, and not wishing to roleplay a level 30 superhero, but I am nevertheless reviewing this issue. I won't go too far the other way, but I also do not want 75% of the server becoming pointless after a week of play.

[Shadowy Reality]

It is honestly way too fast.

I ran a warlock with Guldorand start. Roughly within two weeks of solely doing writs (maybe not even that) I was level 28. This was around 2 hours per day and I missed some days. I felt dirty.

I know it was always possible to go from 3 to 30 in two weeks (hello mod goblins) but never this casual. I don't think this is healthy either.

[Ebonstar]

maybe 10 or 20 other players

source? assumption?

asking the devs to do lots of extra work

I think I'll wait for a Developer familiar with the system to comment (or not) about the amount of work actually involved since I sincerely doubt anyone who has commented about how much work it would be, actually knows for sure how much work it would be.

No one is -that- self absorbed,

Says the guy going out of their way to poop on a suggestion that would in no way harm their enjoyment, claiming without evidence it would be too much work. lol

considering that all our devs are volunteers and not paid to simply be at Areliths beck and call daily, its too much work.

Right now ive seen people come into the Nomad for example without a coin to their name at level 3 and the end of the week they are level 30 because the new writs have turned the server into Warcraft races to get to level whatever you read about for everytime they release an expansion.

Arelith has never been about who can hit 30 fastest. Those players who love this week to max level are missing the entire point.

So you play for 7 days and you are now level 30, but you have zero connections, zero history beyond your race through writs, zero actual server knowledge that didnt have to do with a writ. So basically an empty toon, but hey you are level 30.

Ive seen since this update level 30s who are still newbies that cant find a piece of hardwood, or even know what an election is. But hey you are level 30.

imo if you are level 30 and still havent learned the basic systems of the server beyond writs, you are doing yourself as a player a great disservice.
ive played here for well over a decade and never raced for level 30 even before writs, because i consider myself old school and that means grinding isnt the importance. Without a history on the server being level 30 is worthless.

You say you want the devs to make a special code to help you slow down, its simple without a code even being needed. Go through a day and dont do a single writ, or a week, or a month, or a year. Learn who your character can be beyond its stats.

Dont forget you are asking for code changes for yourself and maybe a few others, when if you learned the history of the server, you could simply find the way that you dont need a special code to answer your issue. Which the biggest one is learning what Arelith is without rushing about doing writs.

[Curve]

For what it is worth I am definitely not a fan of fast levelling

Seeing as you don’t like fast leveling (this change makes leveling race car fast), think it will bring player numbers down (from past interest in making arelith as console friendly as possible I kind of assumed player count was important to you) and the bit about making so much of arelith’s content obsolete can I ask why you would allow this change to happen?

[Irongron]

For what it is worth I am definitely not a fan of fast levelling

Seeing as you don’t like fast leveling (this change makes leveling race car fast), think it will bring player numbers down (from past interest in making arelith as console friendly as possible I kind of assumed player count was important to you) and the bit about making so much of arelith’s content obsolete can I ask why you would allow this change to happen?

Two questions here really, they're both valid, so I'll answer them both.

The first relates to console/Android support, and not actually to this thread, but I'll answer it first. It seemed to me like a no brainer that Arelith should be available alongside NWNEE on every platform where the game itself is available, not only for player numbers, but for longevity, however when I was approached by Beamdog about doing this, I was NOT informed that that they wouldn't be updating these platforms, thus leaving many of our players in limbo, where so many of our players there experience technical problems beyond our control. Had I known that? I likely would not have agreed, as it makes far too much work for our volunteer staff. Having committed though, I know feel we have an obligation to those players.

In regards to the writ change, it was always my intention that writs would eventually be one-shot, with no level requirement, it is really just the values of the XP which are the issue, and one on which the current Arelith team is far from united; just like in the larger players base there are those on this side who much prefer rapid levelling.

I guess what I find most depressing about the issue is how many players seeming hate levelling - presumably seeing it as a necessary evil by which to achieve their level 30 planned build, whereas from my perspective, level 3-29 is where the actual game happens. For me, in an ideal world, we should have enough dungeons that characters need only do them once, whereas I think the current situation leaves a lot of the level 3-15 leapfrogged due to high XP gain, thus allowing it to be farmed for rapid XP at higher levels. Further feedback from players on this point would be highly appreciated.

[Arienette]

I don't think this is a topic where we really need to be rude or dismissive with each other.

For what it is worth I am definitely not a fan of fast levelling, and am a bit uncomfortable to read so many players implying that levelling is a chore that they need to complete in order to roleplay. The ovewhelming majority of the server is built for players LESS than level 30, with the majority there for levels 1-15. Fast levelling makes that redundant, as well as a lot of our craftable content.

Personally I find fast levelling takes the challenge out of the game, and while it may be popular for a time, will ultimately lead to a drop in player numbers. If I'm correct this will be borne out, very soon, by the data, where we will see the server populated by level 30 characters, with very few below that number.

I may be in a minority in my love of low level adventuring, and not wishing to roleplay a level 30 superhero, but I am nevertheless reviewing this issue. I won't go too far the other way, but I also do not want 75% of the server becoming pointless after a week of play.

I am quite sure you have way more insight about what makes players tick, so I wont try to claim you are wrong here.

But for me, faster leveling means a few things:

1. I am much less likely to stick to old established characters. Historically one of the things that made me leery of trying a new character concept is "the grind". Like, I have always wanted to play a deep Rogue but the idea of leveling one, especially through early levels, shut me down. With this new system, I am planning a new Rogue character out.

2. I am more likely to start a character, play through mid levels, and then possibly make a decision to scrap it and start a fresh one. Theres less of a "but it took so much work to get this far!" factor. This could lead to more low and mid level PCs on the server, on a rotating basis.

3. I am more likely to put hold myself into positions that lead to more RP. Previously, I might be hanging out in a hub area looking for folks to talk to. Say it was a slow time and not many were around. I'd very likely dip out and go knock out a few writs. With the new system, I am more likely to stick around the hub area because I know the writs will be there tomorrow, and there is less pressure to spend all my time doing 3 a day when the process overall is much faster than it was. It no longer feels like your "losing out" on something waiting around in the town square rather than chasing XP.

[Ebonstar]

For what it is worth I am definitely not a fan of fast levelling

Seeing as you don’t like fast leveling (this change makes leveling race car fast), think it will bring player numbers down (from past interest in making arelith as console friendly as possible I kind of assumed player count was important to you) and the bit about making so much of arelith’s content obsolete can I ask why you would allow this change to happen?

Two questions here really, they're both valid, so I'll answer them both.

The first relates to console/Android support, and not actually to this thread, but I'll answer it first. It seemed to me like a no brainer that Arelith should be available alongside NWNEE on every platform where the game itself is available, not only for player numbers, but for longevity, however when I was approached by Beamdog about doing this, I was NOT informed that that they wouldn't be updating these platforms, thus leaving many of our players in limbo, where so many of our players there experience technical problems beyond our control. Had I known that? I likely would not have agreed, as it makes far too much work for our volunteer staff. Having committed though, I know feel we have an obligation to those players.

In regards to the writ change, it was always my intention that writs would eventually be one-shot, with no level requirement, it is really just the values of the XP which are the issue, and one on which the current Arelith team is far from united; just like in the larger players base there are those on this side who much prefer rapid levelling.

I guess what I find most depressing about the issue is how many players seeming hate levelling - presumably seeing it as a necessary evil by which to achieve their level 30 planned build, whereas from my perspective, level 3-29 is where the actual game happens. For me, in an ideal world, we should have enough dungeons that characters need only do them once, whereas I think the current situation leaves a lot of the level 3-15 leapfrogged due to high XP gain, thus allowing it to be farmed for rapid XP at higher levels. Further feedback from players on this point would be highly appreciated.

personally i see too much being given to the small number of players who want nascar leveling speed. Before we always told players that RP doesnt start at level 30 it starts at level 3 and we didnt cater to those style players. Lately we have catered to the Nascar style of get to level 30 fast and then watch them wander about knowing literally nothing about the server beyond how easy it was to hit level 30. They use emojis, they talk in leet, they use modern issues that do not fit the game world. Why, because they havent had time at low levels to learn how Arelith operates.

[Emotionaloverload]

I don't think this is a topic where we really need to be rude or dismissive with each other.

For what it is worth I am definitely not a fan of fast levelling, and am a bit uncomfortable to read so many players implying that levelling is a chore that they need to complete in order to roleplay. The ovewhelming majority of the server is built for players LESS than level 30, with the majority there for levels 1-15. Fast levelling makes that redundant, as well as a lot of our craftable content.

Personally I find fast levelling takes the challenge out of the game, and while it may be popular for a time, will ultimately lead to a drop in player numbers. If I'm correct this will be borne out, very soon, by the data, where we will see the server populated by level 30 characters, with very few below that number.

I may be in a minority in my love of low level adventuring, and not wishing to roleplay a level 30 superhero, but I am nevertheless reviewing this issue. I won't go too far the other way, but I also do not want 75% of the server becoming pointless after a week of play.

I do love grinding and seeing all the server content so I tried this new system out this week and its too fast, in my opinion. Its great fun to watch the numbers zoom by but I don't know how helpful that is for community health. On Tuesday night my shelved alt was 16 and yesterday they turned 23. I did no additional killing aside from the writs (and tried to avoid mobs on the return trip) and often didn't finish all three per a day. I tried to shorten my travel time as much as possible to reduce the impact ticks had on the effort and logged out whenever writs were not available.

This was essentially no effort, accomplished solo. That said, it is terribly fun.

Cons:
-What's the point? The journey to the levels (stats, skills and feats which inform rp) is diminished.

-I can see this method being used to generate more special races on the server rather quickly. (Whether or not this is an issue really depends on the staff)

Pros:
-This might prompt older characters to be rolled because players will feel that they can get an 'established character' faster and without all the 'hassle'.

-This could prompt more rp when people don't feel the need to grind. I know this one might seem sad but people have many different playstyles and interests.

-The writs being one-shots really does provoke characters to see more of the server. Its lovely.


I'm sure its very hard to decide where the exp should be at to try to cover the playerbase and their different playstyles. I appreciate all the effort and I look forward to seeing what changes happen to it in the future.


-S

[Xerah]

I certainly think EXP is far too high (and this is as someone who very much benefits from it with limited time at the moment). While I think it's great as a player to get up to level very quickly, I don't think it's great in general for the server. The Guldorand reward is there for people who don't like doing early content (though there should be limits on which writs you can do if you take this reward)

EXP writ reward should be decreased significantly (even with a once per character) to 25% of what they give now. I'd even go so far as to say it shouldn't reward any EXP on completion. The gold and adventure EXP is probably fine as is.

Writs shouldn't be able to be completed after level 21 as the system was initially. There's really no need to rush people through epics any quicker.

[Sincra]

I will always stand by a few things when it comes to levelling in general:
Levels 1-6 on full bab classes sucks.
Levels 1-8 on 3/4 bab classes sucks. These classes usually get other things in return that are often made less impactful due to being sub 8.
Missing on 1 apr is just painfully dull.
Being dispelled on a mage at low levels sucks given resting is limited.
Duration of most turn/level spells at low levels sucks.

Thusly, contrary to some beliefs, I find the level 1-10 experience to be far less enjoyable than 11-30 where not only do you have:
More apr
Higher CL

You also have:
More abilities
More spells to cast and learn
More features to play with in general

I believe experience gain should jump you to 8 as fast as possible to avoid apr issues on apr oriented classes and provide some resilience and duration to casters.

After that, I think people will adopt their own playstyles whereby writ xp, if too low, encourages some to grind, too high and you get a lack of depth to rp as described in the thread. Both of these are similar outcomes and with that in mind finding a middle ground is crucial.

[Mattamue]

It took me 2 years to get to 30. The Guld reward didn't make it easier on the next character. Please don't take away easier leveling.

[Griefmaker]

I don't think this is a topic where we really need to be rude or dismissive with each other.

For what it is worth I am definitely not a fan of fast levelling, and am a bit uncomfortable to read so many players implying that levelling is a chore that they need to complete in order to roleplay. The ovewhelming majority of the server is built for players LESS than level 30, with the majority there for levels 1-15. Fast levelling makes that redundant, as well as a lot of our craftable content.

Personally I find fast levelling takes the challenge out of the game, and while it may be popular for a time, will ultimately lead to a drop in player numbers. If I'm correct this will be borne out, very soon, by the data, where we will see the server populated by level 30 characters, with very few below that number.

I may be in a minority in my love of low level adventuring, and not wishing to roleplay a level 30 superhero, but I am nevertheless reviewing this issue. I won't go too far the other way, but I also do not want 75% of the server becoming pointless after a week of play.

I am quite sure you have way more insight about what makes players tick, so I wont try to claim you are wrong here.

But for me, faster leveling means a few things:

1. I am much less likely to stick to old established characters. Historically one of the things that made me leery of trying a new character concept is "the grind". Like, I have always wanted to play a deep Rogue but the idea of leveling one, especially through early levels, shut me down. With this new system, I am planning a new Rogue character out.

2. I am more likely to start a character, play through mid levels, and then possibly make a decision to scrap it and start a fresh one. Theres less of a "but it took so much work to get this far!" factor. This could lead to more low and mid level PCs on the server, on a rotating basis.

3. I am more likely to put hold myself into positions that lead to more RP. Previously, I might be hanging out in a hub area looking for folks to talk to. Say it was a slow time and not many were around. I'd very likely dip out and go knock out a few writs. With the new system, I am more likely to stick around the hub area because I know the writs will be there tomorrow, and there is less pressure to spend all my time doing 3 a day when the process overall is much faster than it was. It no longer feels like your "losing out" on something waiting around in the town square rather than chasing XP.

I'll preface this with saying that I am old school and have been on the server since early 2007 (is it a badge of honor? Sure, let's go with that... ).

With that being said, I can appreciate both what Irongron and Arienette posted for the reasons they mentioned.

For a while, I was very dismayed by the writs and the speed at which leveling had increased. Heck, I still remember the days of circle grinding the Spires for 6xp per kill and no adventure xp and nothing additional unless you wanted to play MoD and thinking that 6xp per kill was good xp. I am still in that mindset and think anything over 10xp per kill is "very nice!".

I am also still lamenting the fact that with the increase of leveling speed, it is hard to find other characters who you can become an "adventuring party" with for the long term and end up with growing with both mechanically and RP-wise over the RL weeks and months. Then again, I do not miss in the slightest having to grind and grind and grind in order to get a level. Especially when it is one of those "Dead Levels" where all you gain in a bit of HP. A couple of skill points. Maybe another BAB or save, if you are lucky.

One of the best changes to writs though, in my mind, was removing the level caps. This way, you CAN party with anyone you want and not have to feel like you are ruining another's job because you are just barely over that level threshold for a writ. Sure, a higher level character might make the writ very easy, but on the downside, there goes the mob xp, which is significant despite the nice chunk of writ xp reward at the end. Still, anytime there is a worry about levels in the game is terrible, which is unfortunately a common occurrence with the faster leveling. So removing that issue for writs is pure gold!

I will not repeat what Arienette said, but the three points are spot on and I feel exactly the same.

One additional benefit is that I have strongly considered rolling a character simply because they encountered someone, GREAT RP leading to PvP occurred, and my character lost. In the end, my character was resurrected and so continued on, but it was a potential avenue that would give the encounter more weight without truly feeling like a punishment to me.

Yes, rolling means that anything the character had done is gone and they will never have a chance to see what else might happen in their story, but...with the faster leveling, I know it will not be a drag to create something new! This is something I have heard happen more often with other players too. And I think that is FANTASTIC! It allows actions and consequences to matter more, but the players are not really punished now if they choose to roll.

So now I am on the fence in regards to how things are and how things were and how things could be.

I do miss the days of slower leveling, since my opinion is that I felt like the slower pace resulted in superior characters with better stories and better overall groups. I fully believe that RP begins at level 3 and characters should not come to the isle new and be superman days later before they have even had a chance to meet 5 other characters (sorry, this is sort of hyperbole, but there is a grain of truth to it). I also fully believe that the journey to level 30 is by far more important to the RP and story of a character than what happens at level 30.

But I do not miss the grind, I believe that slower leveling encourages retention of old and powerful characters beyond their inspirational prime (meaning beyond the point where the player is still jazzed about the character from an RP sense and keeps them simply because they represent a lot of work and effort and do not want to lose that, despite not really having much motivation for the character) because of the completely understandable reason that a player does not want to devote themselves to the same grind again and again. That almost feels like a punishment, unless you are really into that.

Also as a player who is older now and has a ton of time commitments, being able to go out and do something and see mechanical gains so that you can move to different locations and experience new things instead of hopping on and grinding the same dungeon during your 1-2 hour playtime for 15 days straight really is a great thing. I absolutely love how the new writ system has made it so that you do not have to visit a dungeon more than once. The idea of no longer having the "oh yeah, we have to kill that orc lich...again. Yeah, I know, we have killed him 20 times, but the darn thing someone comes back!" issue is a great one too.

One thing I will strongly support too is the boost to xp gain per server tick. I think that rewards people choosing to RP instead of grind a lot.

I will leave it up to Irongron and those in the know how to balance things best, but in my opinion, I would do the following:

-Keep the current scheme of a character can only do a writ once and there is no level requirements.
-Lower direct xp gains from writs /significantly/, whilst boosting the adventure xp gains or keeping them the same. We do get a LOT of adventure xp now.
-Lower the general xp from monster kills (I can hear the knives sharpening already...). Not to the point that it feels like punishment to kill things, but due to the next suggestion.
-Boost the xp gain from server ticks just a hair more. This will make it so a character does not feel like they are being punished for RPing and if they choose to kill things, they will still get the additional boost as well.

In my mind, the adventure xp bank is one of the best ideas to come to Arelith and I always try to imagine more ways to make it even more useful. Making it so that writs help bolster it whilst decreasing direct xp gain per kill and writ means that leveling will likely slow down a little bit (yes, if a player has less time, their leveling will slow due to not being logged in as much, but that is okay! And is how it should be in all reality. Yes, I know that suggestion would affect me negatively too during times when I cannot play much), while at the same time not punishing those who choose to RP instead of grind monsters which results in more direct xp (note: I am not saying that grinding is bad. I love it myself. But that is because I find adventuring fun).

The writs would still play a huge part, since they would be the source of the majority of adventure xp for our character's banks. And if someone wants to boost it more, -adventure mode is always an option!

[toftdal]

I like the one-time writ-thing and having higher rewards for that one time. In my mind it encourages partying for those nasty writs noone took before - having queues at Malar temple and Stone Orchard, I have never witnessed before now.

Ironically, I think the UD with their lesser writ count is close to the sweet spot - you can get to ~25-27 from just doing the Andorian writs + shadow writs - some of which are terribly hard and really needs a good party, so I often find myself only doing 1 or 2 for an evening. With the greater number of Surface writs, they can likely be tuned down a tad - somewhere between 50-75% of what they are now - and as new writs are added to the UD - a similar toning down could happen there.

As for the RP aspects - two points. I like to RP while doing the writs - this is where I meet interesting characters and having a common goal is great. I get overwhelmed standing in the Hub with 2-5 convos going on at one time, so prefer smaller groups. Second, the old 'grind-till-you-drop' is mind-boggling dull to me.

Having played entirely too many characters, I have pretty much seen the 3-20th level areas. I love finally being able to do things like the Lowerdark, the dragon isle and so on. Places where no matter how high level you are, they are challenging. Trying them out with different combos, characters is a lot of fun to me.

Finally - the latest character, I've leveled fully under the new system has ~400k adventure xp from solely doing RP and writs - and is now level 28th. Likely could tune that part down, some .

EDIT: Griefmaker solved both my issues in one go, above - lowering upfront xp and heightening the tick-gain from adventureXP is imo a great idea!

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think the most egregious aspect of this all is that there is no cap on what level you can do writ x. Same thing I said on page one before trying it, and again after I spent a week playing. Sure, the end xp could be tweaked in general, it is rather high. But I will give a perfect example of what I mean. I was 23, and thinking damn I really want this 14k xp to get to level 24 so I can make some sailing gear (because sailing rules!) so I said hmm, Morghunn probably gives a lot of end xp. 40 minutes later, after an easy stroll with a mid level character, I was level 24. Next up, I did a few easy patrol writs which were primarily resource gathering for crafting missions on my characters part, and bam, I'm 25. I mean, this new way is great for people like me who hate grinding, but I really should be fighting on level stuff to get experience in said level this quickly.

said some stuff.

I think you missed my point. If there was no other option for you to slow down your xp gain in the current system, then sure i can see saying this is too crazy and I am not having fun with it. But after several suggestions that did not involve you demanding the volunteer staff do your bidding were made, you still continued to insist that it be done exactly how you want. Sometimes its hard to see yourself how you sound when you are certain something is right, so I was trying to help you along here. My bad if I went too far with it.

[Hexgoblin]

I've played on and off since 2008, and experienced just about every shift in Arelith's exp dynamic during that time.

I was there for the 6 exp frost giant circle grind, which is what leveling in the epics was once upon a time.

I was there for Mithreas' short-lived exp overhaul.

I was there for the installment of just about every new dungeon, many of which had their exp per kill re-tuned numerous times since implementation.

I was there for the introduction of writs, and all of their iterations since.

Personally? I think the current setup is great. I've no rose tinted viewpoint of THE GRIND being a good thing. If anything, it's only ever served to create a rift between players with the mindset to set apart a few hours a day to hammer mobs, and those who'd rather spend that time roleplaying throughout their journey. Right now, those two camps, for the first time that I've ever seen throughout my time on Arelith -- are united. With writs giving as much exp as they do right now, people have stopped grinding. They do a couple of dungeons, once, and call it a day. Leveling is no longer a stress factor. Everyone knows they'll get there. As a result, I've seen people play together who ordinarily never would. Nor have I ever seen so many traditionally mechanically-minded players wind down and take it easy around RP hubs before, knowing they'll get X amount of exp the next day without having to lock down a dungeon for hours for it.

It's also become much easier to play with people who've less time than you do, with there being no level cap on the writs you can mutually take. The uncapping of writs worried me at first. After playing around with it, and realizing how many doors it's opened in who I can take with me adventuring, I love it.

Not to mention that the bulk of the exp reward currently residing in writs, has led me to explore dungeons that I haven't gone to in 10 years for said writs' completion. Since the implementation of this change, I've seen more of the server than on any character I've leveled in the last decade, and feel actually rewarded for it. My last UD character explored every inch of the Underdark and Shadowplane. My last surfacer went to dungeons like Morghuun's, Minmir Manor, the Malarites and the Skull Crags vampire dungeon, which are places that I haven't had cause to visit in ages. Doing those things and seeing my character actually progress as a result feels great. Whereas prior to this change, I'd spend my 3-30 journey circling 4 dungeons. There's an incentive to explore again, and people have stopped fussing over the exp per kill being far lower in certain dungeons than others.

If this change is reverted, I think the exp per kill in dungeons not traditionally gone to seriously needs to be reviewed. It could be argued that stored exp for the adventure pool to be trickled down across RPR ticks is reward enough, but I disagree. Something inherently time-gated is not a reward for someone with limited time.

[Valrean]

Personally I think this was the best change ever made.

People are barely grinding the same spots over and over again because they don't have to anymore and I'd rather take people leveling quicker than people visiting the same dungeons multiple times for the same end goal.

If you remove the XP entirely or even reduce it heavily then you will just return the Circle Grind in the same dungeons which is more immersion breaking than the alternative.

[ElvenEdibles]

For what it is worth I am definitely not a fan of fast levelling, and am a bit uncomfortable to read so many players implying that levelling is a chore that they need to complete in order to roleplay. The ovewhelming majority of the server is built for players LESS than level 30, with the majority there for levels 1-15. Fast levelling makes that redundant, as well as a lot of our craftable content.

I 100% believe that the speed at which writs currently make leveling is very unhealthy for the server. It's completely trivial. There's no investment, there's no history, there's no struggle. Zero challenge. I haven't ran into someone in a dungeon in ages. There are some good things about this change but I honestly do not think they outweigh the bad.

I think you missed my point. If there was no other option for you to slow down your xp gain in the current system, then sure i can see saying this is too crazy and I am not having fun with it. But after several suggestions that did not involve you demanding the volunteer staff do your bidding were made, you still continued to insist that it be done exactly how you want. Sometimes its hard to see yourself how you sound when you are certain something is right, so I was trying to help you along here. My bad if I went too far with it.

I didn't demand anything. Just stop.

considering that all our devs are volunteers and not paid to simply be at Areliths beck and call daily, its too much work.

By this standard, everything they do is too much work, and every suggestion that gets made from this point forward should be shot down because it is all too much work.

I guess what I find most depressing about the issue is how many players seeming hate levelling - presumably seeing it as a necessary evil by which to achieve their level 30 planned build, whereas from my perspective, level 3-29 is where the actual game happens.

I was once in the former camp. I moved into the latter camp after realizing that behaving as the former was responsible for a lot my "what now?" lack of motivation to play after hitting 30.

As a side note, a side effect of this current system is the devaluing of Major Awards.

[Memes at its finest]

I'm here to have fun; not work a 9-5 and get one level and get into pvp eight times a day since there's only three "good" grind spots between 21-30 on the server. The writs make it less stressful and less time consuming.

[ZeroPointEnergy]

Arelith is probably the only server with easy leveling. It's a unique niche that keeps me coming back to this server over spending 2 years on one character over on prisoners of the mists. It's a bit unfortunate this sentiment isn't shared.

[Irongron]

Arelith is probably the only server with easy leveling. It's a unique niche that keeps me coming back to this server over spending 2 years on one character over on prisoners of the mists. It's a bit unfortunate this sentiment isn't shared.

To be clear I'm not advocating slow levelling, but I do nevertheless feel it can be (and possibly is) too fast.

If nothing else rapid levelling would require a rebuild of the server, to shift alnost everything towards epic level content, and remove all but top tier craftables. 3-30 in a few weeks of casual play is just way too fast (though yes, 2 years would be far too slow)

[Ebonstar]

I will always stand by a few things when it comes to levelling in general:
Levels 1-6 on full bab classes sucks.
Levels 1-8 on 3/4 bab classes sucks. These classes usually get other things in return that are often made less impactful due to being sub 8.
Missing on 1 apr is just painfully dull.
Being dispelled on a mage at low levels sucks given resting is limited.
Duration of most turn/level spells at low levels sucks.

Thusly, contrary to some beliefs, I find the level 1-10 experience to be far less enjoyable than 11-30 where not only do you have:
More apr
Higher CL

You also have:
More abilities
More spells to cast and learn
More features to play with in general

I believe experience gain should jump you to 8 as fast as possible to avoid apr issues on apr oriented classes and provide some resilience and duration to casters.

After that, I think people will adopt their own playstyles whereby writ xp, if too low, encourages some to grind, too high and you get a lack of depth to rp as described in the thread. Both of these are similar outcomes and with that in mind finding a middle ground is crucial.

um you start at 3 and can be ten in two hours

[Irongron]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think the most egregious aspect of this all is that there is no cap on what level you can do writ x. Same thing I said on page one before trying it, and again after I spent a week playing. Sure, the end xp could be tweaked in general, it is rather high. But I will give a perfect example of what I mean. I was 23, and thinking damn I really want this 14k xp to get to level 24 so I can make some sailing gear (because sailing rules!) so I said hmm, Morghunn probably gives a lot of end xp. 40 minutes later, after an easy stroll with a mid level character, I was level 24. Next up, I did a few easy patrol writs which were primarily resource gathering for crafting missions on my characters part, and bam, I'm 25. I mean, this new way is great for people like me who hate grinding, but I really should be fighting on level stuff to get experience in said level this quickly.

You are spot on here, and this is my only real issue with where we are with these values right now. Writ rewards should obviously not be so high that epic characters can cruise though those they skipped in return for what is effectively free xp. That's just bad design. In the UD this is much less of a problem, but on the surface I suspect everyone is doing this.

Writ rewards should (roughly) require every level appropriate available dungeon to be completed once in order to pass that level, and if they are higher than that value then the reward for doing writs below one's level should be curtailed by an appropriate value.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

The notion that slower leveling = better RP is completely false. Friends I know who play on a slow leveling server regularly send me screenshots of goofy meme RP people do, like rolling perform and emoting farting the national anthem.
If there is a reason why roleplay seems "worse" it's probably because the game is less niche and has a lot more players than it used to. Or, people have rose tinted goggles and are only remembering the fun parts and not the meme RP people did 10 years ago.


I level as fast as I feel my characters need to generally. For any character that is going to be stealth or disguise dependent, they absolutely have to be high level and equipped with some level of gear just to be able to compete against already established kitted out spotters. I feel this is missing from the conversation, the idea that some concepts need skill points and equipment to be able to perform what I envision the character doing.

Leveling is a dated mechanic. The only role I've seen it play in modern games is to A) artificially stretch out game content, or B) gate expansion content in MMOs where they can tweak the numbers enough to obsolete non-expansion characters. Or to be such a slog that people will PAY to skip it. Which is already starting on Arelith, by having a level 15 start. If skipping game content is preferable to doing it, is it actually content people want to do? There's a handful of people who would say yes, because they find it cozy. And that is fair. But it's equally fair for people to not want to do it, because they have a character concept in mind and want to explore it.

Ultima Online was extremely fun and didn't rely leveling mechanics. If the entire server was shifted to be level 30 on start, dungeons could be scaled up and people would still do daily writs for gold. Writs could even change daily, so people don't do the most efficient dungeons over and over. It wouldn't kill the dungeon scene. It might make things better even, because friends could decide to go do the daily writs together. It'd be more accessible and faster than most runic dungeons, but have less payout.

I'm not saying this because I believe the change would ever happen, but moreso to try and give an example of how game content isn't tied to level.

The only thing that I think level makes a huge impact on is DMing. It's significantly easier to DM for low levels, because they generally can't 1-shot a boss mob or find ways to break an event. It's not that low levels are more behaved than high levels, it's that the ones that try to red-dead everything end up dying. It's easier to herd low levels.