New Adventure XP Changes

[Stop. Ninja Time]

I second this. I never had a character who ever ran out of adventure xp. Usually at high levels you'll have at least 100k of adventure xp and you'll never have a chance to use it all. And that's cautious estimate. It is normall to have 200k, 300k, 400k by level 30 which will just sit there unused.

If the idea was to encourage being in a tavern, rather than reducing the Adventure XP drain a better idea would be to increase xp drip while in the right location.

I.e. when character spends 100 adv xp to get 100xp normally, then instead of spending 50axp to get 100xp in the tavern, a much better idea would be to have a tick take, say, 200axp to grand 200xp. Meaning higher drip rate.

--edit--

Thinking about it, it could benefit low level commoners, but even in that case, a higher drip rate instead would be a better deal.

Gosh how do you have so much adventure xp? I've never made it past level 27 without running out entirely. With -adventure mode on my entire career. That's some impressive writ doing speed that you can get anywhere into those numbers.

So I suppose this change is for those of us that run out regularly! (Thank you <3)

[Void]

Gosh how do you have so much adventure xp?

That's some impressive writ doing speed that you can get anywhere into those numbers.

It's not impressive. There's probably a dude somewhere on the server with a million of it.

I play with adventure mode disabled, absolutely hate grinding and prefer goal-oriented gameplay. A writ adds a goal - a task to finish. Once you start trying to get anywhere and do anything, adventure xp always quickly snowball into ridiculous amount that will never run out. I never had a single character run out of adventure xp, even though most of them never reached max level.

The system the way it was a while ago, offered an incentive to explore the dungeons you missed for a small reward. This way you'd get a puzzle to solve, an area to look into, and a reward that would give you a feeling that you're getting somewhere. For example, as a weak character, you could try to tackle complex dungeons alone without being slaughtered. It was very entertaining, especially knowin that you'll get at least something for the trouble.

Now there's going to be less reason to do that kind of thing anymore.
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Basically, for me a quest reward is fun, because you get a lot at once, and to get the reward you have to actually do something. Finish the dungeon without dying, for example.

Adventure rewards do add over time after increased drip, but, uh... trying to level up via adventure xp, for example, means "drink beer for 3 hours in a bar and chat". That's not very entertaining, as you have no agency there, meaning you can't accelerate the process, and unless you get yourself killd, it doesn't matter much what you do.

Combat never felt like it mattered for character progression due to relatively low xp gained, although people definitely use it as xp source. It works more like a source of gold than xp.

In my experience, ones that are impacted are commoners, because that's the only xp source they have. There's an additional challenge, because "to advance, you have to craft and to be around, but to craft you'll need to find materials without running out of money". That one feels like a completely different game, to be honest, one that is not for everybody. But then again, rather than making adventure xp run out slower, would make more sense to get more normal xp instead if the idea was to encourage someone to go somewhere.

[Irongron]

As I said in the update thread, adventure XP has been somewhat out of control as the 'double for first time writ completion I mistakenly left active, even when writs were only available one time, and the XP reward was heavily raised. This meant that even minor writs were netting thousands of points, dwarfing every other source of adventure XP.

It may need to be toned down further, we'll see.

[Kaeldre]

for every level ABOVE the maximum recommended level 20% of the 'immediate' XP will instead be given as adventure XP.

A change that allows players less freedom to play the game at their own pace.

That said, I think the tweaks to adventure xp was more than justified.

[Dr. B]

How about a system that detects proximity to other PCs and frequency of chat and raises the XP yield based on that. I'm not suggesting it scale with the amount of PCs present or the amount of spoken dialogue. It simply ascertains that you are interacting with other players and then raises the XP yield by a fixed amount.

[Sincra]

How about a system that detects proximity to other PCs and frequency of chat and raises the XP yield based on that. I'm not suggesting it scale with the amount of PCs present or the amount of spoken dialogue. It simply ascertains that you are interacting with other players and then raises the XP yield by a fixed amount.

This only serves to add more overhead, and encourages people reading the works of Shakespeare line by line in a huddled closet instead of rping at their own pace without obligation to type x lines near x people every tick.

[Duchess Says]

I'm not saying what was proposed is the perfect solution but in this hypothetical scenario if someone is going to type in nonsense for hours and hours to get a slightly increased XP tick I say just shake your head sadly and let them. It's an incredible waste of their life for almost nothing. In the meantime let's have an easy system that rewards time out of combat and not worry about worst case scenarios.

[Void]

How about a system that detects proximity to other PCs and frequency of chat and raises the XP yield based on that. I'm not suggesting it scale with the amount of PCs present or the amount of spoken dialogue. It simply ascertains that you are interacting with other players and then raises the XP yield by a fixed amount.

Such system is implemented on bgtscc. It is not great.

In practice this can lead to people standing in circle and spamming "*sniffs flowers*" emote.

This sort of script would encourage people to TALK. It won't encourage them to talk well, or play their characters well. If someone is close and is talking, that does not mean that they're interacting.

Current system with passive xp drip, despite flaws, is better than a script trying to gauge quality of speech and giving xp for that. Not all characters talk much either.

[LovelyLightningWitch]

I prefer the system we just had. For a brief, shining moment, you could make satisfactory progress if you only had an hour or two to play a day.

You'll never stop the sprinters with lots of time on their hands. If anything, I think we should cater to the former group, which is where most people live. As noted above, this style of play never can extract the actual value in benefit from the pool of theoretical value (kinda like bitcoin!).

Meaningful one-time writs was and is where we should be.

Even if you can play only one hour a day...

Making the difference between sprinting vs spending 2-3 hours on a single dungeon small will help encourage the later.

There are people one would try and drag into slow-paced, high-detail/simulation RP but their natural sense of "efficiency" will make them on the edge and uncomfortable.

By making spending 2-3 hours in a single dungeon with detailed simulation as efficient as running around in orclands, we'll have fewer people feeling obliged to rush the orclands and actually enjoy the game.

Which will make it easier for me and my partner to find parties without getting frustrated at trying to keep our party members from sprinting ahead and deciding to just stick with one another for less headaches.

How about a system that detects proximity to other PCs and frequency of chat and raises the XP yield based on that. I'm not suggesting it scale with the amount of PCs present or the amount of spoken dialogue. It simply ascertains that you are interacting with other players and then raises the XP yield by a fixed amount.

Such system is implemented on bgtscc. It is not great.

In practice this can lead to people standing in circle and spamming "*sniffs flowers*" emote.

This sort of script would encourage people to TALK. It won't encourage them to talk well, or play their characters well. If someone is close and is talking, that does not mean that they're interacting.

Current system with passive xp drip, despite flaws, is better than a script trying to gauge quality of speech and giving xp for that. Not all characters talk much either.

It doesn't encourage talking. It encourages detail.

When you're standing around, do you stand like a statue? No. You make minor gestures with your face as someone talks. Your hands might make weird flappy movements or grab onto your coat/cloak.

More detail helps enhance the simulation. We need to encourage more detail.

[Void]

Making the difference between sprinting vs spending 2-3 hours on a single dungeon small will help encourage the later.

It is not about efficiency. It is about having fun.

With previous system in place (without xp penalties for being outside of the range), you could explore dungeons leisurly and get something reasonable for it. The actual speed was 2-3 writs per 2-3 hour session. It was pretty much perfect, and entertaining even without a party.

In comparison, while Grinding orc lands is more "efficient" it is not fun at all.

It doesn't encourage talking. It encourages detail.

Like I said, I played on bgtscc where something like that is implemented.

It encourages talking. In small sentences. As often as possible in hopes that roleplaying bonus will trigger.
It also encourages sitting aroudn a campfire during a thunderstorm, in winter, while meteorites fall from the sky and a vulcano erupts nearby, all in order to tell autobiographies to random strangers.

Detail is not a good thing. A good thing is detial that is on point. The point of emotes is to trigger imagination of other player, and provide just enough for that, so the character on their screen comes to life. Also, someone's effort shouldn't be judged by a script, as a script has no brain.

[Skibbles]

No-rest zones are a quality-of-life nightmare and XP gain has little to do with my total avoidance of these places.

I love adventure XP and anything to do with refining it, but no-rest zones are still awful places to be for anyone that ever uses magic or use/day items/feats/abilities/spells in their roleplay - which is most characters.

Please make taverns less annoying to be in in the first place.

[Kalopsia]

No-rest zones are a quality-of-life nightmare and XP gain has little to do with my total avoidance of these places.

I love adventure XP and anything to do with refining it, but no-rest zones are still awful places to be for anyone that ever uses magic or use/day items/feats/abilities/spells in their roleplay - which is most characters.

Please make taverns less annoying to be in in the first place.

Regardless of their rest percentage, every character can rest every 20 minutes or so based on a cooldown timer :)

[Skibbles]

No-rest zones are a quality-of-life nightmare and XP gain has little to do with my total avoidance of these places.

I love adventure XP and anything to do with refining it, but no-rest zones are still awful places to be for anyone that ever uses magic or use/day items/feats/abilities/spells in their roleplay - which is most characters.

Please make taverns less annoying to be in in the first place.

Regardless of their rest percentage, every character can rest every 20 minutes or so based on a cooldown timer

I shudder to think how many years have gone by without me ever having known this. Egg on my face!

[Void]

No-rest zones are a quality-of-life nightmare and XP gain has little to do with my total avoidance of these places.

I love adventure XP and anything to do with refining it, but no-rest zones are still awful places to be for anyone that ever uses magic or use/day items/feats/abilities/spells in their roleplay - which is most characters.

Please make taverns less annoying to be in in the first place.

Regardless of their rest percentage, every character can rest every 20 minutes or so based on a cooldown timer

I shudder to think how many years have gone by without me ever having known this. Egg on my face!

That's a recently added feature. It wasn't a thing, say, two years ago.

No-rest areas still exist. Some are in wilderness.

Magician's need to rest is one of the reasons why I prefer non-magical characters.
"The power of coffee compels me to keep going and going and going and going and going and never stop"

[LovelyLightningWitch]

Making the difference between sprinting vs spending 2-3 hours on a single dungeon small will help encourage the later.

It is not about efficiency. It is about having fun.

With previous system in place (without xp penalties for being outside of the range), you could explore dungeons leisurly and get something reasonable for it. The actual speed was 2-3 writs per 2-3 hour session. It was pretty much perfect, and entertaining even without a party.

In comparison, while Grinding orc lands is more "efficient" it is not fun at all.

It doesn't encourage talking. It encourages detail.

Like I said, I played on bgtscc where something like that is implemented.

It encourages talking. In small sentences. As often as possible in hopes that roleplaying bonus will trigger.
It also encourages sitting aroudn a campfire during a thunderstorm, in winter, while meteorites fall from the sky and a vulcano erupts nearby, all in order to tell autobiographies to random strangers.

Detail is not a good thing. A good thing is detial that is on point. The point of emotes is to trigger imagination of other player, and provide just enough for that, so the character on their screen comes to life. Also, someone's effort shouldn't be judged by a script, as a script has no brain.

I will argue that detail is always a good thing. It enhances simulation, it ensures everyone imagines the same sensations/images/sounds/smells.

It feels unnatural and awkward how often people on Arelith just stand in circles and only ever say or emote something if it "progresses the narrative" (or more frustratingly, it has to do with PvP). It feels... lifeless and game-like (or book-like) to me.

Perhaps changing people's mindsets to embrace detail and simulation over narrative should not require mechanical gamist rewards, but hey - earthlings thrive on chasing the carrot on a stick, so why not use said carrot to make things feel more alive.

On citing of BGTSCC, a decade ago there were red wizard players whose approach to typing I loved. Their emotes went out of their way to touch upon all five senses (or perhaps more, if one were attuned to magic sufficiently enough), and were sufficiently frequent as to remove any doubt and misinterpretation of tone and reaction.

Since then, the only roleplaying game I witnessed such simulation-enhancing detail was the BYOND game, Eternia. Alas, Eternia lacked sufficient character longevity for me to be able to enjoy it due to its systems concerning IC:Earth time and over-encouragement of character retirement. But the emotes at least were of sufficient detail to make one experience what happens, not just imagine.

[Void]

I will argue that detail is always a good thing.

I strongly disagree and lets leave it at that.

It enhances simulation, it ensures everyone imagines the same sensations/images/sounds/smells.

You cannot ensure something like that. People never imagine the same thing. Everyone's imagination will produce a different picture. And that's normal. What's more people react differently to the same things, and value different things differently. What might be insufficient detail for one, will make the world become real for another.

Like they say "you cannot guarantee that the other person sees the same color red as you"

It feels unnaturaly and awkward how often people on Arelith just stand in circles and only ever say or emote something if it "progresses the narrative" (or more frustratingly, it has to do with PvP). It feels... lifeless and game-like (or book-like) to me.

Visit Andunor hub when it is crowded and 20 people are talking at the same time.

The main issue is that this is not a book and not a turn-based game. It is a mostly realtime game, and as a result you cannot have all the details in the world, as there is a "bandwidth" or speed limit for both typing and reading. If someone runs by, it'll take at least a full second for people to react. And it is not possible to cram every detail in the world in that tiny moment even with quick typing speed.

Either way, I have nothing else to add.

[Dr. B]

How about a system that detects proximity to other PCs and frequency of chat and raises the XP yield based on that. I'm not suggesting it scale with the amount of PCs present or the amount of spoken dialogue. It simply ascertains that you are interacting with other players and then raises the XP yield by a fixed amount.

Such system is implemented on bgtscc. It is not great.

In practice this can lead to people standing in circle and spamming "*sniffs flowers*" emote.

This sort of script would encourage people to TALK. It won't encourage them to talk well, or play their characters well. If someone is close and is talking, that does not mean that they're interacting.

Current system with passive xp drip, despite flaws, is better than a script trying to gauge quality of speech and giving xp for that. Not all characters talk much either.

How about a system that detects proximity to other PCs and frequency of chat and raises the XP yield based on that. I'm not suggesting it scale with the amount of PCs present or the amount of spoken dialogue. It simply ascertains that you are interacting with other players and then raises the XP yield by a fixed amount.

This only serves to add more overhead, and encourages people reading the works of Shakespeare line by line in a huddled closet instead of rping at their own pace without obligation to type x lines near x people every tick.

This isn't a problem that the tavern system doesn't already have. Your RPR tick turns off if you're not doing anything, so people can just congregate in taverns and spam the chat with fluff.

Indeed, fundamentally this problem already exists with the RPR system. As long as you're moving or performing actions, you earn RPR. So you could just argue that the RPR system by its very nature encourages silently walking around or grinding without any roleplay.

Whatever the cause, that's something for the DMs to deal with.

[AstralUniverse]

If we add more factors like proximity to other PCs or frequency of chat I sense it would still feel as 'easy to game and semi-worthless' for most people but would punish the younger, or newer, or just a bit more quiet roleplayers.