Overleveled XP penalty

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Void
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Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Void » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:13 pm

I'm not a fan of this feature.

I've completed two epic level writs which had max level of about 25.

Results:

First one:
8000 axp,
3199 xp,
4800 axp (overleveled)

Second one:
6000 axp (base)
3600 xp
2400 axp (overleveled)

The character in question already has about 290k adventure xp, more than he'll ever be able to use.

I've completed both of those solo, they were high danger and took quite a bit of time, and in the end I'm penalized. Like someone said in another thread "feels like NPC mocking you".

I would love if the overleveled penalty was removed, to be honest. Completing quests with higher level already penalizes character, because the point of xp is to advance, and with higher level you need more. So the higher your level is, the smaller is the impact of the reward, even when you receive the same reward amount.
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malcolm_mountainslayer
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:28 pm

Just heads up, saying you have too much adv exp might just reduce adv xp you receive while changing nothing about immediate xp. I think your problem is mostly intention of design of server. We use to have no epic writs. Leveling 20 to 30 is suppose to be way more painful than 3 to 20

Void
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Void » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:35 pm

malcolm_mountainslayer wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:28 pm
Just heads up, saying you have too much adv exp might just reduce adv xp you receive while changing nothing about immediate xp. I think your problem is mostly intention of design of server. We use to have no epic writs. Leveling 20 to 30 is suppose to be way more painful than 3 to 20
I believe Irongorn mentioned that at some point there was a glitch that gave too much adventure xp on first completion of the quest. The character was affected by this, hence it got 300k instead of usual 100-200k I get when I hit epics. However, the problem is that those were fairly dangerous writs completed solo with a character that was not exactly powerful. So penalty feels unfair.

Regarding "intentional design"....
Previously if you took an overly difficult quest, you could stick with it (assuming you didn't want to throw out the writ paper), get stronger, and then finally clear it. That was the case when Malar Temple was placed at level 14 range. You'd be likely unable to finish it until you get a much higher level, and then youd' finally hand in the damn thing.

In comparison, current situaiton feels like double punishment.
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yoimtide
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by yoimtide » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:49 pm

+1 Writ change has been a rough experience for me, personally


It's hard for me to find someone who needs to do a writ during my play times, and since writs are a one time thing now I don't see many people doing the writs I want.

I also have to make sure I'm within the level range of the writ or it'll be a waste of effort since my adventure XP is already stacked out the wazoo. I get that the game isn't designed around my play times, but it's killed my mood to play a little when I look at a writ and I need to risk getting penalized, or I look at a level appropriate writ and know in my heart I can't solo it (but no one is around).

Did the cheese delivery writ from Bendir > Westcliff at level 25. Writ listed as 21 - 30. 100% of the XP was penalized.

Did a sibayad tomb writ ( 1 level higher than recommended writ ) somehow got penalized 40%.

It's making me nervous to do any writs I'm higher than because I could get nothing out of it, and making me nervous picking up any writs I'm -just- within range for because I might need the XP later if there are no other writs in range.

I'm not sure what I'm meant to do with my time - I could run around grinding, or try and find some RP but it's usually some very quiet hours when I'm on, and after work I used to like doing some writs and then relaxing.

Thanks for taking the time to read. I enjoy the server a lot, and wanted to share my feedback on this. :)
I usually play from 6pm - 9:30pm Australian Eastern Standard Time on surface characters. If your timezone is similar, feel free to hit me up for writs or RP. More varied play times on weekends.

charmcaster
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by charmcaster » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:55 pm

I don't know how the math works out or other considerations, but it definitely feels pretty meh to get even a 20% reduced reward for a high level writ. I haven't pursued anything that might be 2 levels or lower even with the inclusion of the new writs, and probably won't ever on this character.

AstralUniverse
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by AstralUniverse » Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:02 pm

Leveling was too fast, now it's slower, and these huge adventure exp rewards are meant to reward the heavier RPers who adventure less and run out of adventure exp more often.

So at the bottom line:
If you're one of those players who reach lvl 30 with six digits adventure exp because you do 3 writs every day and adventure and spend a lot of time in the wilderness, you are now simply getting to 30 a bit slower than before (and its intentional because before it was really insanely fast and it was unhealthy).
And if you're one of those players who reach lvl 30 with 0 adventure exp, after running out of adventure exp daily and having to do writs only to keep up with the ticks, then you should be leveling about as fast as before, which is still slower than the average adventurer.

I hope this helped with perspective.
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Hazard
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Hazard » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:59 am

It's still very quick to level to 30 by just grinding, without doing any writs.
Writs on top of that are just a huge bonus.

I wouldn't mind if writs gave no immediate XP at all, and only gave adventure XP and boosted 1-time gold payments.

Exordius
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Exordius » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:04 am

It really needs to go... did an epic writ that should give 6000-8000, and got 999. Did another epic writ i was within the level range and did not get even a single xp. I don't need adventure xp as it serves no purpose now that i literally have 5 billion of it, all of which is going to go to waste since i will hit 30 tomorrow. Maybe if there was some other benefit from adventure xp, like maybe converting some or all of it into gold after you hit 30 then it would be useful but as it stands now its worthless once you it 30.
Last edited by Exordius on Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Babylon System is the Vampire
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:23 am

I haven't played yet under the new tweaks, but it certainly was ridiculous for a minute there as to how fast one leveled. So unless its slower than it was before the first changes to writs (I doubt it) I'm sure it's fine. You will also be better off financially when you hit 30 -because- it takes longer to get there, and since I am sure 30 is still easy that's actually more important imo.

Void
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Void » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:33 am

Hazard wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:59 am
It's still very quick to level to 30 by just grinding, without doing any writs.
The system we had before the Overleveled XP penalty was just perfect for playing with limited time. As Red Giant said in other thread:
RedGiant wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:31 pm
I prefer the system we just had. For a brief, shining moment, you could make satisfactory progress if you only had an hour or two to play a day.

You'll never stop the sprinters with lots of time on their hands. If anything, I think we should cater to the former group, which is where most people live. As noted above, this style of play never can extract the actual value in benefit from the pool of theoretical value (kinda like bitcoin!).

Meaningful one-time writs was and is where we should be.
Grinding is not for me, as you essentially trade RL lifespan for XP. Combat xp on top of that is kinda very low and probably doesn't matter much if it exists at all.

The point is that at early levels there were tasks with very high reward and zero risk, and when at very high level you finish a task that takes a hour and nearly die (many times) in the process and waste a ton of consumables, and due to docked reward receive comparable amount, that doesn't feel right at all.
Hazard wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:59 am
I wouldn't mind if writs gave no immediate XP at all, and only gave adventure XP and boosted 1-time gold payments.
I wouldn't mind much if fighting gave no xp at all (maybe only axp), and you received immediate reward for task completion only.
Last edited by Void on Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hazard
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Hazard » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:43 am

Void wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:33 am

I wouldn't mind much if fighting gave no xp at all (maybe only axp), and you received immediate reward for task completion only.
Yeah, that sounds nice too. That way people with limited time can get the same big chunks of XP as someone who plays a lot, while the person who plays a lot can't speed ahead by grinding .. only through roleplay ticks.

Sounds fine to me.

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Irongron
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Irongron » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:49 am

I can see above that some players are reporting incorrect overlevelled XP rewards.

If so please use bug report channel, with the name of the writ, its level range, your level, and a screenshot of the reward.

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Aren
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Aren » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:19 pm

Something to add:

If you pick up a, say, 7-14 writ as level 14, and two other higher level writs and you then adventure out into the world and do these writs - when you come back to hand them in, the order in which the writs gets handed in, does not take into account the level requirement of the writ.
So if I hand them all in at once and the game decides to give me XP for the higher level ones first, making me level to 15, I will no longer get the full benefit from the 7-14 writ.

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Talvenlapsi
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Talvenlapsi » Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:42 pm

I'd have to complain about the change a little. Why? Because it really sucks. It makes really hard for sub-par builds or sub-par player (like myself) to push content, on timezones where player are more sparse and it's hard to find writ-buddies.
5 levels is.. Very punishing, because I found myself to be running out of writs I can confidently run at around level 16. After that it's been kind of struggling to hope-to-maybe-get-writ-I-can-complete alone, because I can't find a buddy.

10 levels, I would be okay with? Like if it starts declining AFTER 5 levels, and then declines to that Only-Adventure-XP at 10 level difference. That, I think, would be fine and dandy.
So to say; Writ maximum level ends at 15. You do it at level 20, you still get full xp. After 20, it starts to decrease, and at 25 you only get Adventure XP.

Give some love to us who can't solo and play on timezones where players are more sparse and it's impossible to find friends to play with. Please! :pray:
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LIAR LIAR
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by LIAR LIAR » Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:07 pm

For those asking why, because I don't want to circle grind as a consequence of the writ situation but I'm gonna.

Wrips
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Wrips » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:50 pm

I agree that the current overleveled xp penalty is too inflexible. There are lowbie writs listed as 0-3, which means that if you reach level 4 before delivering them you are already losing actual xp and it's not very fun to not get the full xp from your first set of writs. I've seen myself browsing the available writs more than once to check if there was some writ that had to be done quickly or I'd start losing even more xp. Probably changing the overleveled penalty to kick in after 3 or 5 levels above the recommended, as someone commented above, would be better than what it is currently.

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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by ZeroPointEnergy » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:03 pm

Another win for roleplayers. Sometimes gameplay must take a backseat to the server narrative and players need these things to make grinding not on the forefront but instead, role-play. We've been far too focused on mechanics when other servers had the courage to squash these kind of things early on.

AstralUniverse
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by AstralUniverse » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:57 pm

After playing a low level character for the last few days, I've noticed that with the current writ rewards (far lower than before) people are once again incentivized to do writs early and as many as possible, since if they RP and level from ticks it can hurt their future exp income from writs, so people who do 3 writs on the clock and dont RP much are rewarded by this state. Not sure if it's a problem since hourly ticks are much bigger and might off-set the overleveled exp penalty, but it does sort of makes me wonder what is that penalty there for anyway. I think the nerf to the writ rewards was good but this mechanic in particular is strange.
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Void
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Void » Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:36 pm

ZeroPointEnergy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:03 pm
Another win for roleplayers. Sometimes gameplay must take a backseat to the server narrative and players need these things to make grinding not on the forefront but instead, role-play. We've been far too focused on mechanics when other servers had the courage to squash these kind of things early on.
Not sure how that's a win for roleplayers, as doing writs is adventuring and opposite of grinding.
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Drowboy
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Drowboy » Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:41 pm

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions ... nd-fallacy

this always comes up and its always wrong

'grinding' is roleplay
pvp is roleplay
sitting in a tavern is roleplay
date auctions are, in spite of my best efforts, roleplay

You're inhabiting a character the things they do are in character. grinding isn't a training montage that didn't "really" happen, as much as we all sort of compress it and give our characters selective amnesia so they don't say "Yeah I killed elgnizrul ghosts for the seventeenth time today."
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charmcaster
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by charmcaster » Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:51 pm

Allowing people to get their experience when and how they want is only a good thing in the context of schedule and priorities. If maximising it requires that they do X or Y, then that is what they will do, perhaps negatively impacting other activities they might otherwise want or be incentivised to partake in. So yeah, nerfing the actual exp gain from writs below your level feels pretty meh for no discernible reason.

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Hazard
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Hazard » Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:00 am

Grinding can be IC.
Sometimes it is silent and all communication moves to discord/tells. When you see a small group just silently sprinting around and co-ordinating without speaking to one another, that's the kind of "not roleplaying" grinding I think of as a problem. But hey, it happens .. especially on your 100th+ character. Just be sure to hop back into IC if anyone comes into the scene, at least.

But grinding can be an IC immersive experience too with the right people, roleplaying the whole way. This is the kind of grinding that is not a problem at all, and in fact I've had some great moments with this kind of intense IC training with others.

I remember one time when my low level elf got smooshed.. and she grabbed her friends and they got to training, non-stop. Their other friends back in Myon wouldn't see them for a long time, because they'd train and train and train and when they needed to rest they'd do it where ever is closest to their training at the time so they can resume when they're done resting. When they returned to Myon they were swole, and then the enemy got smooshed. Good times. Classic arc.

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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Duchess Says » Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:13 am

AstralUniverse wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:57 pm
After playing a low level character for the last few days, I've noticed that with the current writ rewards (far lower than before) people are once again incentivized to do writs early and as many as possible, since if they RP and level from ticks it can hurt their future exp income from writs, so people who do 3 writs on the clock and dont RP much are rewarded by this state. Not sure if it's a problem since hourly ticks are much bigger and might off-set the overleveled exp penalty, but it does sort of makes me wonder what is that penalty there for anyway. I think the nerf to the writ rewards was good but this mechanic in particular is strange.
It feels to me like early leveling is slower now than before they started messing with writs. It's faster in high teens and epics but 1-12 or so is a real drag. All along the way you have to carefully plan when to take what if you don't want to deal with too much overlevel penalty now too, which feels kind of annoying frankly.

The game was more fun for me when leveling was faster. I understand that I'm supposed to get with the program and relish the low level content but I've just been around too long to enjoy that part of the game, sorry. Nothing these changes will do will stop me from getting to at least the low epics ASAP which is where I feel like a character is actually ready to get involved.

Void
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by Void » Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:19 am

Drowboy wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:41 pm
'grinding' is roleplay
pvp is roleplay
sitting in a tavern is roleplay
In all those cases whether roleplay is present or not depends entirely on the player. Pure mechanical process has no roleplay in it.

Regarding stormwind fallacy, then hyper optimization requires your character to have a great deal of foresight and knowledge about the world beforehand, as they know every right choice before hand, and that can rattle suspension of disbelief in some cases.

I honestly just do not see how sacking a reward is a win to anyone or for roleplayers.
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AskRyze
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Re: Overleveled XP penalty

Post by AskRyze » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:34 am

I get why this change was implimented. People were taking ~5-10k writs while level 28 and cakewalking through it to clear their three-a-day. This makes sense.

The problem is that if I'm level 12, take three writs that are level 14, and level to 13 halfway through the first writ, I know I'm going to lose XP. That is my only gripe with this system. It punishes you for playing the game the way it wants to be played. It punishes you for not spending all of your time running back to town to turn in your writs one by one, then taking a new writ one at a time. It punishes you for trying to minimize the amount of time you spend dungeoning when you have better things to do in the day than run between the hub and wherever else you were. And I think that's just silly.

My 2c? Just make the overleveled check happen when you take the writ. Solves the issue 100%.
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