Arelith

Recently, I went on one char from 21 to 26 in two days with only writs, and started out new character a few days ago, and am lvl 8, bout to be 9 soon. Im honestly not seeing an issue - on cordor/surface, theres tons of writs, and I always find what to flow into. Day 1 - sewersx2 and courier to whidershin (to get em bark pots not far). Day 2 - xvarts, hobgoblins and kobolds. Day 3 - sewers again, bullywugs and probably another courier to relocate. If you instead choose to rp on your early levels and not be as intensive, thats cool, you just dont take above and start out with whats your level - theres always writs.

Maybe we shouldnt focus on overlevel xp, but on actual problem - UD and Skal not having enough writs?

The current system is a real problem for the UD.

Writs are none repeatable now.
Many of them are especially difficult compared to similar options on the surface. Particularly if you are playing something mundane melee orientated, they can be increadibly punishing.
They also appear to reward you less than surface options.

CNS wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:46 am

The current system is a real problem for the UD.

Writs are none repeatable now.
Many of them are especially difficult compared to similar options on the surface. Particularly if you are playing something mundane melee orientated, they can be increadibly punishing.
They also appear to reward you less than surface options.

Irongorn added a few high level writs recently, although the number of writs (and their rewards) is still smaller than on Surface.

Currently you should have barely enough of them to advance, but if your character is completely non-magical, a party is strongly recommended. It is also highly recommended to stock up on wands, scrolls or potions if you have no magic of your own. The overleveld penalty is definitely going to annoy you, though.

CNS wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:46 am

The current system is a real problem for the UD.

Writs are none repeatable now.
Many of them are especially difficult compared to similar options on the surface. Particularly if you are playing something mundane melee orientated, they can be increadibly punishing.
They also appear to reward you less than surface options.

I'd rather say that it's the surface that's too easy than the other way around.

The Underdark PvE content is much more up to date when compared to its surface counterpart. I feel like that is the difficulty that resembles more what it should be for the entire server. The overal difficulty of Guldorand's PvE content (i.e.: the most recent complex addition) further supports this.

So I started a new surfacer character a few days after this penalty went in. After about 14 days (with a couple days where I didn't play Arelith at all, and a few days where I did < 3 writs), the character's at low epics. I still have a number of 20+ Minmir, Guldorand, Sibayad, Shadowplane, and Kholingen quests to do, so I'm not worried about having enough content to putter around in until late epics or 30.

Personally speaking, I haven't really noticed the overlevel xp -> adventure xp conversion. The only time it came into play was when I intentionally took a courier writ over-leveled, because I was walking towards that city anyways. Leveling is still very, very fast compared to when writs were repeatable.

So, after levelling 2 characters to mid-to-late epics in rapid succession after the overlevel change..
It's.. Annoying. It's mostly annoying because it's so precise. Sometimes I take writ, go do all three I have; I might have levelled already once. And now i'm one level over the writ. I go turn in, and the first writ levels me again at worst, and then i lose more XP.

I really wish, this could be changed, that it only starts declining after 5 levels over, and then, 10 levels over it's converted to all adv. XP. This still blocks too much overleveled people doing low level writs for easy XP, but allows more diversity for sub-optimal builds, and less.. Annoyance at XP lost on turn in without meaning to.
Atleast; prior to levelling to 21. Perhaps writs between 3-21 have more leeway, because levelling is so fast, and allowing builds that aren't exactly optimal still reach the fun parts. After 20/21 they can stay as they currently are, imho.

I think we're in a good spot [EDIT] *on the surface at least*. Players who RP a lot in static neutral locations are rewarded by not having to do *every writ* on the list, where as people who only do 3 writs per day and complete them all by order will only rarely get diminished exp. Grinders are rewarded the least by this state because they will get diminished exp from writs and *also* reach lvl 30 with hundreds of thousands remaining adventure exp. Good job.

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:49 am

I think we're in a good spot. Players who RP a lot in static neutral locations are rewarded by not having to do *every writ* on the list, where as people who only do 3 writs per day and complete them all by order will only rarely get diminished exp. Grinders are rewarded the least by this state because they will get diminished exp from writs and *also* reach lvl 30 with hundreds of thousands remaining adventure exp. Good job.

+1, agreed =)

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:49 am

I think we're in a good spot. Players who RP a lot in static neutral locations are rewarded by not having to do *every writ* on the list, where as people who only do 3 writs per day and complete them all by order will only rarely get diminished exp. Grinders are rewarded the least by this state because they will get diminished exp from writs and *also* reach lvl 30 with hundreds of thousands remaining adventure exp. Good job.

You'll have to do almost every writ on the list if you're in Andunor, because there's fewer of those.

One pattern I noticed is that currently when you take first writs in andunor completing those three kicks you outside of suggested range, so on 3rd writ you already get docked xp. Although thankfully in this case it is about 200 xp, but, like previous poster said - irritating.

There's also more incentive to grind early on, as on occasional spots combat gives 20xp per kill and that can push you over the level barrier. I'm not really happy about that.

One other thing that I noticed is that apparently early on surface had more sources of gold than underdark. Though I do not quite recall what that source was. There were probably just more chests nearby in general.

Void wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:58 am

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:49 am

I think we're in a good spot. Players who RP a lot in static neutral locations are rewarded by not having to do *every writ* on the list, where as people who only do 3 writs per day and complete them all by order will only rarely get diminished exp. Grinders are rewarded the least by this state because they will get diminished exp from writs and *also* reach lvl 30 with hundreds of thousands remaining adventure exp. Good job.

You'll have to do almost every writ on the list if you're in Andunor, because there's fewer of those.

One pattern I noticed is that currently when you take first writs in andunor completing those three kicks you outside of suggested range, so on 3rd writ you already get docked xp. Although thankfully in this case it is about 200 xp, but, like previous poster said - irritating.

There's also more incentive to grind early on, as on occasional spots combat gives 20xp per kill and that can push you over the level barrier. I'm not really happy about that.

One other thing that I noticed is that apparently early on surface had more sources of gold than underdark. Though I do not quite recall what that source was. There were probably just more chests nearby in general.

I should have clarified my assessment doesnt include the UD as I havent played there for a while. I do think the overall number of writs in the content plays a big factor here so the UD may not have it as nice as the surface. I saw on IG's stream that he was working on UD content recently. I still remember his words "we have quite many long time dedicated UD players and they've been clearing the saaaaame content for yeaaaars" so I'd say soon(tm).

I do feel it is a little problem pre-20 for builds that arent optimal, and often rely on little lower level content to get by. Which said, I like playing not perfectly optimized builds in very casual manner, and often do writs lower than my level just. Because i'm not able to get to my level yet. And i know thrre are a LOT of sub-par builds who would appreciate it in the pre-20 era.

Perhaps removing the penalty for before level 10 would help.

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:03 am

I should have clarified my assessment doesnt include the UD as I havent played there for a while. I do think the overall number of writs in the content plays a big factor here so the UD may not have it as nice as the surface.

There are fewer writs in UD, and they're tougher. There's also only one writ agent.

Void wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:36 am

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:03 am

I should have clarified my assessment doesnt include the UD as I havent played there for a while. I do think the overall number of writs in the content plays a big factor here so the UD may not have it as nice as the surface.

There are fewer writs in UD, and they're tougher. There's also only one writ agent.

They also reward significantly less.

Take for instance the Giants of Minmir - a pretty tough writ on level, you have to go to the cave, beat many floors worth of giants and a tough boss. It pays 7,000XP.

Or, if you happen to be a UD character, you can get the exact same writ, same enemies, same location just different flavour text and instead called Giant Neighbours. 4,000XP.

CNS wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:00 pm

Void wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:36 am

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:03 am

I should have clarified my assessment doesnt include the UD as I havent played there for a while. I do think the overall number of writs in the content plays a big factor here so the UD may not have it as nice as the surface.

There are fewer writs in UD, and they're tougher. There's also only one writ agent.

They also reward significantly less.

Take for instance the Giants of Minmir - a pretty tough writ on level, you have to go to the cave, beat many floors worth of giants and a tough boss. It pays 7,000XP.

Or, if you happen to be a UD character, you can get the exact same writ, same enemies, same location just different flavour text and instead called Giant Neighbours. 4,000XP.

"Walking in Faith" on surface. Not sure if it has been nerfed or not.

I still think the old system was better. It made grinding an afterthought and helped balance RP and adventure time better. If the goal with these recent changes was to slow down the leveling process again, it doesn't meet that goal. It just means you need to grind more to get the same amounts, except now it punishes people for taking weaker writs if they can't manage the harder ones.

In Sorrow We Trust wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:42 pm

I still think the old system was better. It made grinding an afterthought and helped balance RP and adventure time better. If the goal with these recent changes was to slow down the leveling process again, it doesn't meet that goal. It just means you need to grind more to get the same amounts, except now it punishes people for taking weaker writs if they can't manage the harder ones.

I second that.

I'm not a big fan of experience penalties.

Under dark already has an issue with writs feeling like they are too clumped up in certain level catagories, I think my cleric is level 24 and has.. like, one writ left in the UD? The idea that her going back and doing easier writs to clear them out for XP could have netted her significantly less XP is a little worrisome if I plan on playing another character later. I leveled her during the initial rework before this was implimented.

Also the UD only having shadowvar writs (ew) after a certain point kinda sucks.

In Sorrow We Trust wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:42 pm

I still think the old system was better. It made grinding an afterthought and helped balance RP and adventure time better. If the goal with these recent changes was to slow down the leveling process again, it doesn't meet that goal. It just means you need to grind more to get the same amounts, except now it punishes people for taking weaker writs if they can't manage the harder ones.

I'm curious to hear more about your feedback, and how you reach this conclusion... because I feel the complete opposite as I explained in my post above.

AstralUniverse wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:39 am

In Sorrow We Trust wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:42 pm

I still think the old system was better. It made grinding an afterthought and helped balance RP and adventure time better. If the goal with these recent changes was to slow down the leveling process again, it doesn't meet that goal. It just means you need to grind more to get the same amounts, except now it punishes people for taking weaker writs if they can't manage the harder ones.

I'm curious to hear more about your feedback, and how you reach this conclusion... because I feel the complete opposite as I explained in my post above.

I believe it was already summarized here:
viewtopic.php?p=279014#p279014
And I even quoted it before.

I agree with "In Sorrow", and situation is exactly like that. With previous system you could do ANY writ at your level, regardless of how weak or strong you were. With current system you have to worry about OOC concern (your level), and will be penalized if you're too powerful. That in essence is double penalty, because with high level your experience contributes less to level progress.

So with "before overleveled penalty" you could just have fun and focus on doing tasks one at a time. Any task. Any level. Right now you have to worry about your level and penalty which kills most of the joy of the process. And you are encouraged to grind, again, as rewards are reduced on top of the penalty. While previously you could just go over the quests you missed, go into dungeons and interact with people there, perhaps helping them to do the same task.

So, yeah, previous system was superior, hands down.

You now have to take harder writs in order to get the best gains for your level. There are obvious choices that give more EXP than others because their level range is higher, but these writs are significantly more difficult. So it's better for someone who is level 9 to take a writ that caps at 14 then it is for them to take a writ that caps at 10 or 11. If they hit their level, they will be penalized. That's why I said this punishes the more casual writworkers and does not at all punish grinding, because grinding is still more EXP. With the old system, I felt more comfortable only doing writs and I felt more rewarded for my time.

Skal writs still haven't had their levels added to the writs with the exception of the subterranean pools.

The writs aren't really organised in level order, either. Without meta knowledge of Skal's writs, it is impossible to know if you're going to get 5k XP or a bag of gold and a pat on the back. Some of the writs don't really match in terms of level vs difficulty which amplifies the effect.

Just seems like a bit of an oversight that most or all other writs have recommend levels attached but Skal's don't. They used to have recommended levels, but whichever update removed them worldwide removed them, and when they were re-added, it looks like Skal was missed.

I saw on IG's stream that he was working on UD content recently. I still remember his words "we have quite many long time dedicated UD players and they've been clearing the saaaaame content for yeaaaars" so I'd say soon(tm).

Yes, I had hoped to get this all live a lot sooner. My streams and work on areas stopped for 6 weeks due a covid outbreak among my children, which resulted in a lengthy period of quarantine, requiring home schooling and my managing alone with them for a very long period. We're all well now, but obviously Christmas too is a busy time. I do hope to be back in the saddle before long.

I didn't express any of this at the time as am generally pretty guarded about my private life, but yep; new UD content definitely on horizon.

Holy hell dude. I am glad things are better. Sorry you had to go through that.