Avariel

[stoneheart-]

Stats and everything are fine. This isn't a "balance" complaint. I see the Avariel as being a good balance between having something different (wings) and having stats that are thematic to what they are in lore without being too overpowered.

After having played one for some months now, my only complaint is.. the wings. Seems to fly in the face of what I just said (haha) but hear me out.

Yes, you have wings, but you can't do anything with them. I'm not suggesting true flight or anything of the sort, but it would be nice to have a 1/rest (or cooldown) -teleport like ability to open-air, outdoor areas (or other designated landing zones) that plays the "fly" animation instead of the mage armor vfx. Heck, it would even be nice if they played the "fly" animation when performing a climb check. Something, anything, to acknowledge that they have functioning wings in a visual sense.

This probably sounds like a whine, but it's not. I'm quite happy with the race and my character, it just would be nice to have a small cookie that (hopefully) would cause minimal issue.

[Hazard]

I'd love seeing the fly animation used for flappy winged characters in some, any capacity. Even if it offers absolutely no advantage, like just a different climb animation. Sounds cool!

[a shrouded figure]

I really like the idea of a “fly” teleport for avariel (for which I do not play or intend to), similarly I’m kinda questionable regarding the whole no lawful- I know it was to limit monk issues but honestly monks have been neutered anyway.

[AstralUniverse]

The no-lawful should *absolutely* stay and monks are still obnoxiously good if not overpowered.

I do think tho we should consider the Fly thing seriously. Like... gsf transmutation is a very common investment for many builds. Portal lenses are kinda cheap to make or buy. So why not allow just about any PC in this game with wings to have a -teleport ability that is independent from the portals leylines but can only carry you for 2-3 screens 1/day or something. Seems cool.

[Sombricimos]

I'm more of the opinion of a 1/rest unique race feat that completly ignores the DC of a climb.

It's less absurd than "I take flight and instantly am at the other end of Arelith"

As mentionned by someone, a simple lens or a GSF transmutation already does the trick, and absolutely everybody has either one of the two, and I don't think teleporation mechanics should be expanded to wings anyways.

[Void]

I'd love seeing the fly animation used for flappy winged characters in some, any capacity. Even if it offers absolutely no advantage, like just a different climb animation. Sounds cool!

It's a pity that NWN does not support 3d movement like flight. Because in PNP avariel are totally capable of flight.

Personally I'd be in favor of adding flying abilities to all winged players. Those could be:
1. Short range "teleport flight" within area (currently used by monsters)
2. Long range "flight to another region"

In this scenario Short range could have a cooldown of one turn, and long range could have cooldown of one day.

It is also possible to add some sort of "hover" ability that would make you play flying animation, make you harder to hit, but also add penalties to attack and forbid spellcasting, for example.

[-XXX-]

IMO all avariel characters should be confined to the elven quarter faction hall - viewtopic.php?f=12&p=281356#p281356

[Skarain]

Devs and/or IG have said there are no plans for flight as seen by NPC who can teleport-fly, ranging from bats to dragons. The feature to fly to otherwise inaccessible terrain would be too good. Be an archer in where melee chars can't reach you? Sucks for everyone else.

Flying chars in general get a bonus on climb related activities, last I remember. Flying races includes Pixie, Imp, Avariel and Red Dragon Disciple. Maybe also Aasimar and Tieflings if they can select wings as visual. Unsure of the later 2.

And while flying like animation following a GSF: Trans Teleport would be cool, it is extra work as you also got to account that not all portals can be flown to. Treadstone Locks and Shadovar Tradepost are technically underground or another plane - while mechanically on Surface server.

A secondary flying system side-by-side with portal system would also be a lot of work, to the benefit of a relatively small group of races. It would also incentivize all players to just make flying chars for they have unique travel cookies in such instance. Kobold RDD would suddenly become very popular.

Ultimately, the best place to play a flying character is on Tabletop D&D or other such medium, where DM can permit such and there are no mechanical limits - only the limits of your imagination.

----

As an afterthought, it may very well be that Avariels do know how to fly, but the characters could have a fear of dragons. Flying makes you a big target, and you do not wsh to get eaten.

Unique wing flap when climbing would be cool, but the suggestion box still has a dozen of other projects that demand love and care. Projects that benefit a wider spectrum of players than one Major award subrace.

[Sincra]

Honestly,

Heck, it would even be nice if they played the "fly" animation when performing a climb check. Something, anything, to acknowledge that they have functioning wings in a visual sense.

This is highly possible.

I'm not sure we'd get a teleport/jump feature but a simple visual change? I'll need to take a look, but if it's doable, i'll raise it to the team.

[Dreams]

That would be very cool! I've been a mix of frothing over the idea of playing an Avariel and also not wanting to play one due to being landbound. Hints of flight, or flight capability would be awesome.

[stoneheart-]

Devs and/or IG have said there are no plans for flight as seen by NPC who can teleport-fly, ranging from bats to dragons. The feature to fly to otherwise inaccessible terrain would be too good. Be an archer in where melee chars can't reach you? Sucks for everyone else.

I never asked for this in my post.

Flying chars in general get a bonus on climb related activities, last I remember. Flying races includes Pixie, Imp, Avariel and Red Dragon Disciple. Maybe also Aasimar and Tieflings if they can select wings as visual. Unsure of the later 2.

Yes, I am aware of this. It has nothing to do with my post, however.

And while flying like animation following a GSF: Trans Teleport would be cool, it is extra work as you also got to account that not all portals can be flown to. Treadstone Locks and Shadovar Tradepost are technically underground or another plane - while mechanically on Surface server.

A secondary flying system side-by-side with portal system would also be a lot of work, to the benefit of a relatively small group of races. It would also incentivize all players to just make flying chars for they have unique travel cookies in such instance. Kobold RDD would suddenly become very popular.

Thanks for the concern, but it's up to our volunteer staff to determine what is and isn't worth their time. I have already specified that this hypothetical "flight teleport" could be to open air, outdoor areas in my original post. The feedback forum is for feedback on recent additions, which Avariel is, so I posted my experience playing one alongside with things I thought would improve the aesthetics and experience of the race.

[Void]

Be an archer in where melee chars can't reach you? Sucks for everyone else.

NPCs do this sort of thing all the time - they frequently spawn in locations that can't be reached by a melee character.

Flight teleport can be implemented like a lasso. You waste a round to prepare, then teleport, then waste a round more to recover.

While I don't play avariels, I'd pretty much love to see this sort of mechanic for winged critters.

[Waldo52]

Be an archer in where melee chars can't reach you? Sucks for everyone else.

NPCs do this sort of thing all the time - they frequently spawn in locations that can't be reached by a melee character.

Flight teleport can be implemented like a lasso. You waste a round to prepare, then teleport, then waste a round more to recover.

While I don't play avariels, I'd pretty much love to see this sort of mechanic for winged critters.

I really want to see this implemented too. There's clearly a flight/teleport mechanic built into the game that that can be exploited by PCs with the right coding. But the problems with allowing this seem really difficult to overcome.

The balance issue is really formidable. The lasso solution isn't a bad one and I've had a similar idea but depending on the terrain, against many opponents in PVP it's still basically a button you can push that amounts to "I win or it's a draw or you retreat". Then there are the PVE issues. I've designed a few adventures myself (albeit in pen and paper games) and with that experience in mind I'd imagine there are probably more than a few writs/dungeons that could be trivialized by this flight/teleport ability.

Mechanics aside, there's the problem of sheer uniqueness. Call him a Garry Sue or a unique snowflake or whatever you'd like, but a guy who can literally fly is just playing a different game from everyone else. Tieflings are cool, ogres are cool, there are even some who think dragon disciples are cool. But if you throw literal flying ability into the five percent bin I guarantee you it'll become the default option for people who retire characters and get lucky. This would be the shiniest of the shiny things. The awe one faces when confronted with a rare giant or sentient undead creature would be replaced with "Oh look, another flying schmuck. I get it, he's cooler than me." The temptation to play a character with such an exotic ability would just be too great for too many peoole, and the game would become a race to level and retire your twenty or so characters until you have wings and flight.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea but keeping this kind of thing from being too powerful or too universally sought after would be a real challenge. I'd like the dev team to say yes or at least maybe to this idea, but implementing it properly would be an incredible balancing act.

[Void]

The balance issue is really formidable. The lasso solution isn't a bad one and I've had a similar idea but depending on the terrain, against many opponents in PVP it's still basically a button you can push that amounts to "I win or it's a draw or you retreat".

You can restrict the movement to the line of sight. And slap more penalties after the flight.

Mechanics aside, there's the problem of sheer uniqueness. Call him a Garry Sue or a unique snowflake or whatever you'd like, but a guy who can literally fly is just playing a different game from everyone else.

There are races/classes like that. We have vampires, then there are classes with fairly unique playing mechanics.

A trueflame, for example, or a mass summoner is playing a very different game from a barbarian or a rogue.

The thing is, if the situation really goes out of hand like you describe, then avariel will be simply made application only.

[-XXX-]

Why not make flight mechanically identical to riding?

Fly mode toggle :
Fly mode = mounted
On foot = dismounted

[Void]

Why not make flight mechanically identical to riding?

Fly mode toggle :
Fly mode = mounted
On foot = dismounted

Because that one may be harder to implement. As far as I know, riding, pretty much, polymorphs your character into a horse, then uses appearance of the character to configure the rider. There will also be no difference between flying and not flying, since nwn1 does not support flight.

"whoosh jump" being used by the enemies is something that should be easier to do because it can be done as an ability.

[Ebonstar]

there is a way to fly up and over things, just not sure how its implemented, but i played a druid and when he shifted into his bird form he could fly up and over just like dragons wyverns and such do.

you cant just go flying around though, you had to like have a wall or a high ridgeline to land on or you just went up and over

[Bunnysmack]

If this does get implemented, it should also apply to RDDs and the rare unicorn that is the Dragon PCs (yes, there is more than one, most just shelve hibernate a lot).

Please and thanks

[Party in the forest at midnight]

Dragon characters don't have wings unless they transform though. Are you saying that dragon characters would love to turn into dragons just for a limited teleport or slight climb bonus?

[Bunnysmack]

Love to turn into what is their "true" form and use the flight that is canon for every dragon in the setting to be able to use?

Yes. But, only when in their real form, obviously. Wings=flight.

[Cabarcos]

One thing that I think maybe will not be too hard to make, is that the winged races can fly to cross the spaces in which you use a rope. If you have wings, when you detect the area in which you can use a lasso, be able to click on the point in which you will fix the lasso and instead of that you fly to the other side.

[Sincra]

I did some quick tests a few days back, it's entirely possible to just make flying races fly on climb spots ala https://nwnlexicon.com/index.php?title= ... pearAppear

[The GrumpyCat]

I'm 99% sure that flying races - like Avariel, already get a big bonus to climb.

[Sincra]

I'm 99% sure that flying races - like Avariel, already get a big bonus to climb.

They do, yes. It's actually a very large bonus.

[stoneheart-]

I'm 99% sure that flying races - like Avariel, already get a big bonus to climb.

Hello, yes I'm aware of this, however my post is about the aesthetics of succeeding a climb check (playing the "flying" animation when you succeed)