Arelith

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:28 am**

For the update notes, refer to this post

Statements pertaining to the update to keep in mind. There may or may not be a Spring Balance Adjustment and these may or may not be included in said adjustment patch.

Kenji wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:06 am
Following the ranged nerf, we might make it slow the archer only when targetting a Player Character much like a Cavalier's Spirited Charge. Though it'll also mean the archer can kite a Player's summons. Ranged damage overall will also be buffed via top-end Bundles/Quivers ending at 4 or 5 damage. This will be looked at closely pending more player feedback.

Kenji wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:43 am
..., eventually, mounts will be accessible to both UD and surface characters as well as indoor areas and caves, albeit not with all the movement speed bonus one would enjoy in open space.

The team will be making further adjustments on both damage and AB now that we have distinct ranged styles: on-foot 1h/shield, on-foot 2h launchers, mounted 1h/shield, and mounted 2h launchers.

Kenji wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:26 am
Healers still have access to Lifeline, Respite, and the spontaneous casting of Mass Heal, Healing Circle, and Heal. If they want overheal, they will have to take healing or suffering domains.

There are more changes pertaining to the domains and healing in general. Suffering domains will get to leech or vampirize from their harm spells.

For more in-depth reasons, one can read this post here:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35420&p=278504#p278504

Kenji wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:59 pm
Nothing is set in stone yet, but clerics will likely get the treatment similar to Paladin, Warlock, and now Spellsword, where they can select a particular path (we'll find a better word for it) to specialize in.

So far a few are planned, but these can and will change depending on the team's vision and further discussion:
Cloistered Cleric - specializes in casting spells, div power modified to do something else, light armor and simple weapon proficiency

War Priest - specializes in battle, free combat casting feat, certain weapon proficiency feature possibly shared with Favored Souls

Healer - specializes in healing and protective divine magics, healing domain required, no armor or weapon proficiency whatsoever.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:39 am**

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Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:41 am**

I really like:

-Punishing kiting.
-Punishing heal pot spam.
-Nerfing WoF spam.
-The change to Animal Empathy.
-The neutering of the orogs.
-The neutering of the scythe.

Some things I seek clarification on:

-Do dex modifiers affect ride bonuses to AC in any way?
-Can rangers still take ITWF to get the +1 bonus? And will it stack with dual wield mastery?
-Why was the name changed to "True Frost"? New players might read this and get the idea that the class is cold themed in some way. "Fire" or "Flame" doesn't have the converse effect because those terms are more broad.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:46 am**

+ Ranged
Characters with ranged weapons equipped will have their movement speed slowed by 75% for 1.5s upon issuing an order to attack a target. Mounted characters with ranged weapon and Mounted Archery feat will not be subjected to this movement speed penalty. If a character stands still and continues to attack, it will not receive movement speed penalty in the subsequent ranged attacks for as long as it's not moving and reissuing attack orders.

This will cripple ranged characters in pve. Mobility is crucial, especially at lower levels, when playing a ranged character.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:46 am**

Would love some clarification on the true frost thing, seems kind of wild unless you've got some kind of spell fire channeler or something coming down the pipe

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:51 am**

The ranged snare is awful.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:53 am**

Will any of these be grandfathered?

Also, I'd like to know the thought process behind changing Invisible Blade.

Oh and changed requisites means for many of us that we need to relevel. Will those be available? I have a level 7 character that was just a few hundred exp from Invisible Blade. I do hope a remake is available to those of us in that situation.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:34 am**

As someone who loves playing ranged characters, I hate that I like the slowing change and think it's a good step in the right direction. I think it's going to make playing ranged characters a lot more miserable in PVE, though, but I'll try it out and see if it feels as bad as I imagine it feels.

The hexblade nerf is probably necessary even if I begrudge it, too, but it does just edge my hexblade out of something I'd be comfortable playing. (They were a weird dex build, so this isn't surprising.)

The shaman changes are hot and I think it puts Shaman in a really good place right now. But maybe FS deserves another look some time. It's been awhile since I've played one, but they lag pretty far behind battle clerics as far as AC goes, making them a lot harder to run as battle FSes. And while I'm going to praise the WoF Change because perma-blindness sucks, it does definitely nerf FS quite a bit considering that was a bread-and-butter cheesy tactic. Giving them easy access to Divine Shield, obviously, is not an option, since a +15 AC steroid is a little absurd, but I do think they deserve another look over.

That being said, if FSes are just not supposed to be as viable for a battle build, that's fine too. They're perfectly adept divine casters and spontaneous casting has a -lot- of benefits.

One final note is that I really like the IB change. Ironically, having LESS class levels made it harder to fit in certain builds. Considering it's full BAB, you'll be able to use it to bump a 3/4ths class up to 4 APR pre-epics now, which is cool. I think this'll open up more options and make it a more interesting prestige class to fool around with. All in all, I really like the changes, even the ones that penalize me, which is saying something.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:00 am**

Paint wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:34 am
The shaman changes are hot and I think it puts Shaman in a really good place right now. But maybe FS deserves another look some time. It's been awhile since I've played one, but they lag pretty far behind battle clerics as far as AC goes, making them a lot harder to run as battle FSes. And while I'm going to praise the WoF Change because perma-blindness sucks, it does definitely nerf FS quite a bit considering that was a bread-and-butter cheesy tactic. Giving them easy access to Divine Shield, obviously, is not an option, since a +15 AC steroid is a little absurd, but I do think they deserve another look over.

A battle FS can sit comfortably at 55-56 AC out of expertise. That's pretty good for a class that can spontaneously cast cleric spells.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:01 am**

Aren wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:00 am
A battle FS can sit comfortably at 55-56 AC out of expertise. That's pretty good for a class that can cast spontaneous cleric spells.

Wait, can it? Dang, maybe I just suck at building FSes. I was hitting 52 max. Disregard those FS statements, then.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:06 am**

Dr. B wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:41 am
-Do dex modifiers affect ride bonuses to AC in any way? No, only hard ride ranks and cav levels are counted
-Can rangers still take ITWF to get the +1 bonus? And will it stack with dual wield mastery? The bonuses don't stack

fading wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:46 am
This will cripple ranged characters in pve. Mobility is crucial, especially at lower levels, when playing a ranged character.
Following the ranged nerf, we might make it slow the archer only when targetting a Player Character much like a Cavalier's Spirited Charge. Though it'll also mean the archer can kite a Player's summons. Ranged damage overall will also be buffed via top-end Bundles/Quivers ending at 4 or 5 damage. This will be looked at closely pending more player feedback.

MissEvelyn wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:53 am
Will any of these be grandfathered?
If something is going to be grandfathered, it'll say it is to be grandfathered. If it doesn't mention the word, it's not going to be grandfathered.

Also, I'd like to know the thought process behind changing Invisible Blade.
I'm busy. Maybe others can fill in the holes with their feedback.

Oh and changed requisites means for many of us that we need to relevel. Will those be available? I have a level 7 character that was just a few hundred exp from Invisible Blade. I do hope a remake is available to those of us in that situation.
If you're asking for a relevel, it should still be available for everyone. If you're asking for a rebuild, please send me and the administration team a ticket detailing the numbers as well as the reasons why the changes made your build inviable. Maybe there are ways to build your character again without going through the hassle of rebuilding. Overall, the Invisible Blade buffs shouldn't invalidate any existing builds, if anything, it opened up more possibilities.

Unless you're a ranger who took TWF at level 1 with the intention of putting levels in Invisible Blade in pre-epic instead of epic levels before the IB levels are expanded. I hope nobody built it that way.

Paint wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:34 am
The shaman changes are hot and I think it puts Shaman in a really good place right now. But maybe FS deserves another look some time. It's been awhile since I've played one, but they lag pretty far behind battle clerics as far as AC goes, making them a lot harder to run as battle FSes. And while I'm going to praise the WoF Change because perma-blindness sucks, it does definitely nerf FS quite a bit considering that was a bread-and-butter cheesy tactic. Giving them easy access to Divine Shield, obviously, is not an option, since a +15 AC steroid is a little absurd, but I do think they deserve another look over.

That being said, if FSes are just not supposed to be as viable for a battle build, that's fine too. They're perfectly adept divine casters and spontaneous casting has a -lot- of benefits.

FS shares the same dilemma as that of a full spontaneous caster - spontaneous casting is powerful, and while I agree that the recent changes may merit thematic add-ons to FS rather than anything mechanical, any changes we make to FS will need more careful consideration. The team has something in mind but it will take time to realize and it is not something to be shared with the public yet.

Paint wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:01 am

Aren wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:00 am
A battle FS can sit comfortably at 55-56 AC out of expertise. That's pretty good for a class that can cast spontaneous cleric spells.
Wait, can it? Dang, maybe I just suck at building FSes. I was hitting 52 max. Disregard those FS statements, then.
Too late.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:08 am**

Glad to see an end to indefinite heal potion spam.

Many of these changes will be interesting to see in game. Kiting also needed a change like this, I think.

Thanks for all the efforts thus far!!

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:12 am**

Is healer path still competitive now. Overheal was its main class feature for me. Imho, would have been nice if healer path would give at least another +1 or +2 overheal per level that stacks with the domain overheals. It would still be less than the old +5.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:26 am**

ClockworkRed wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:12 am
Is healer path still competitive now. Overheal was its main class feature for me. Imho, would have been nice if healer path would give at least another +1 or +2 overheal per level that stacks with the domain overheals. It would still be less than the old +5.

Healers still have access to Lifeline, Respite, and the spontaneous casting of Mass Heal, Healing Circle, and Heal. If they want overheal, they will have to take healing or suffering domains.

There are more changes pertaining to the domains and healing in general. Suffering domains will get to leech or vampirize from their harm spells.

For more in-depth reasons, one can read this post here:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35420&p=278504#p278504

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:57 am**

Divine Shield:
I love that the nerf to div shield + e-dodge was reverted. Really good call there, and I'm not biased AT. ALLLLL. lol <3

MissEvelyn wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:53 am
Also, I'd like to know the thought process behind changing Invisible Blade.

Invisible blade:
It was unpopular and was basically a niche pick for some Ranger builds. Now it's 5 levels and has discipline which makes it a solid (if not the best) choice for a discipline and BaB 4 lvl dip on many or even most rogue builds and 5th late for discipline. It, also, lowers the relative power creep of the problematic builds who caused divine shield e-dodge synergy to get nerfed in first place (speaking about div assassins and paragon/enforcer SDs).

Two-weapon fighting:
I am about confused. about this one.
If I understand correctly, rangers who do not manually pick imp two-weapon fighting do not get that 1 ab it gives, they get 1 ab instead from dual wield mastery, so now everyone have the same ab as rangers when dual wielding and everyone need to invest a feat for that 1 extra ab. I dont know about this one because on one hand, I dont think ranger needed a nerf(???) but on the other hand I did think dual-wielding being exclusively a ranger thing (because everyone else being just objectively much worse at it) is weird so I am glad to see ~A change of some sort.

Orog:
Orog is a very strong race that has one of the most wonderful stat allocations for builders to toy around with. Two things that always really bothered me is the +1 ac and the 5% physical DI. I personally think that removing the DI instead of changing the base stats would be a better approach and also not screw up builds which causes grandfathering and jealousy all over the UD, but that's my personal opinion, and I'm glad the AC is removed either way.

Warlock:

I've been playing the undying dex based blaster build with the tier 6 vamps and I'm the first to say it really had to go. I'm not sad about this nerf AT ALL. But lets break this down.

Undying will now be a very unpopular path because the 20lock/10pm combination is simply not worth the multiclassing. Warlocks can now do this with EDR 3, crit immunity, tier 6 vamps but their blast damage will be bad, and their DC spells are not that good on this pact imo. Their good stuff isnt so dependent on DCs (which is also a part of the reason I went full dexer). I think as 24 cha 19 con warlock set up, epic undying is one of the worse way to go right now and I suggest buffing the pact's spellbook a bit.

For dex focused blaster builds, I think undying is in the realms of history. There's no reason to pick this pact for that anymore and it's most certainly better to grab greater hag or fey + bg dip and divine shield, 20 dex 24 cha set up, being a much better at staying alive (with your 66 ac) and DC mage than Unying pact once again.

So while the nerf is good, maybe some counter-balancing buffs are required here with the undying pact.

Healer:
So basically picking this path now only gives -respite at 28 and that's it?

WoF:
I'm not a wof spammer so my FS wont likely notice the nerf unless I party with other wof casters. I think it's a good nerf.

Ranged nerf:
Its a brutal nerf to archery in pvp and pve, but it was only required because of pvp. Archery will be buffed to compensate. I'm getting Monk Summer vibes here.

Heal Potion:
I mean... a small sobriety spirits-like drop is really not a lot. Most characters have 26 con at average. This mostly just stops the really rich people from smacking everyone with their bank account. It's not really going to be felt outside of frantic heal pot spams. I like it over all. It's a small change but hits the mark.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:39 pm**

These changes all seems pretty spot on. Good do. The heal pot change is particularly elegant.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:06 pm**

The only thing I question here is the drow change. Drow are spell resistant naturally and from what I'm being told the sun penalty ignores that fact even if they fully resist a "sun spell". If this isn't the case then fine, but if it does still effect them even when they completely resist the spell that seems excessive.

This effectively would mean that not even the underdark is "safe" for drow where before the idea was to keep drow from just endlessly wandering the surface without penalty from what it seemed. This just punishes drow for existing basically and makes anyone with the lore to cast any sun spell able to make them completely worthless in any fight that they don't spam darkness scrolls/pots in making themselves sneak attackable.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:12 pm**

If the sun effect hits you regardless of you resisting the spell, that seems bad. Partly for obvious reasons (It's not like a failed banishment harms outsider pcs), partly for, you know

every drow caster becoming a sun-o-mancer overnight for drow on drow violence, thematically

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:13 pm**

That is my worry with the situation mostly, that it could be very easily abused if it just bypasses their SR.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:14 pm**

Rogue / IB / SD is back baby

Get it while it's hot. Spicy update.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:30 pm**

One of the few times I'm going to say I'm not a fan of a change. Seriously not a fan.

I forsee the drow subrace becoming largely invalidated like the old vampires were against turn undead.

At least turn wasn't able to be turned into a scroll and had to be used by a specific class.

I'm not sure what the thought process was behind removing the ability to spam a saveless blind (WoF) and then in the exact same breath introducing another one with far worse penalties.

For those who don't know the debuff is:

Blind
70% miss chance (because being blind isn't bad enough).
50% spell failure,
Lose 10 (20?) Spell resist.

And now it can be used endlessly on my character. Nice.

Dark clouds take 1-2 rounds to kick in, are clumsy to use, open up to sneak attacks, and you -still keep the spell failure last I checked-.

Also, I'm going to have to see

"This is a reminder that drow are not a surface supported race'" in pvp now as if this mechanic was ever originally intended as anything but a ooc server enforcement policy.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:35 pm**

Is there a way to possibly convince the dev team that Drow should have access to Bladesong style as well, being technically an elf, and the description itself does not necessarily dictate that Drow elves do not have the same sort of training? Or is it just elves/half-elves permanently?

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:16 pm**

Kenji wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:28 am
+ Ranged
Characters with ranged weapons equipped will have their movement speed slowed by 75% for 1.5s upon issuing an order to attack a target. Mounted characters with ranged weapon and Mounted Archery feat will not be subjected to this movement speed penalty. If a character stands still and continues to attack, it will not receive movement speed penalty in the subsequent ranged attacks for as long as it's not moving and reissuing attack orders.

I believe this was a royally bad idea.
Ranged attackers were already taking backseat compared to melee ones and mages.
I would prefer to see more quests, more areas, more prcs, more monsters, rather than this.

Kenji wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:28 am
+ Path of True Fire
OOC Path of "True Flame" or "True Fire" now renamed to "True Frost" (no mechanical changes, just the OOC name change in path selection)

It was common to play true flame as a follower of Kossuth.
Yet here we go. If it is an "OOC change" that "Means nothing", then what was its point?

---

At this point I'd prefer if there were no more "balance changes", ever. As it is slowly turns into a running joke that any character I try gets screwed over by some mechanical change out of the blue, and it is getting tiresome. The first ever character I played was a Kensai, that swiftly got spot bonus removed and then got removed from the server altogether. This sort of things keeps happening all the time for the past few years.

A RP server should provide incentive for long term play, and constant flux mechanics flux encourages short term throwaway characters instead, as no class is safe from being turned upside down.

There are many other ways to create interesting content rather than overhauling everything all the time.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:28 pm**

Void wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:16 pm
I believe this was a royally bad idea and I don't understand who the heck would want to do that.

Because of an exploit that lets you hold down the W key and spam click on an enemy that makes your character shoot arrows from their butt without stopping or slowing down, a roundabout way to fix a bug in the engine.

Also, the TF name change is literally just cosmetic on an OOC level, you can still play them as a true flame follower of kossuth, it's not like the names we see on the class list are IC information.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:31 pm**

When I logged in with my orog I had not known of this update, now it is sitting at level 1 in the arelith entry area.

Will it be save an this state or do I have to bring to level 2 ?

Arelith

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