Pirate Citizinship

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Beauty is the Beast
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Pirate Citizinship

Post by Beauty is the Beast » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:23 pm

So it's abit weird to me that Banites can become citizens of settlements but Pirates cannot. I think this is a mistake, there's historical precent for this. An Example is Sir Henry Morgan of Jamaica, this is something that can create some real nice and spicy RP!

Imagine if the High Sheriff of Gulhorand was a pirate? I think that will make for some nice rp.

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Skibbles
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Re: Pirate Citizinship

Post by Skibbles » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:37 am

I'm not perfectly well versed on the lore but a Banite is typically going to be along the Lawful (Evil) part of the spectrum, as a believer in Tyranny, which is almost always going to be delivered in some form of governance. It seems perfectly natural to me that Banites would seek positions of authority and power in settlements to exert the influence of their beliefs.

Pirates, on the other hand, likely tending towards Chaotic influences such as Talos, Umberlee, etc, probably aren't even thinking about setting aside their love of freedom (and/or booty) on the seas to start doing paperwork and overseeing government.

I haven't spent huge amounts of time in Sencliff, lately, but it seems to be a good indicator of my thoughts; the place is a damn mess, and nobody appears to really be in charge or really much care. It felt perfect.

Guldorand, on the other hand, seems fairly tidy and has a set of rigid rules founded in the Guldorand Charter.

Everything seems fine to me the way it is.

To add a little - Sencliff reminds me of Nassau. I assume maybe this is kind of what you meant by historical precedence.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Pirates

So there is technically historical precedence, in real life, but I think it runs against what you seek. In the grand scheme Nassau barely lasted 12 years and, as far as I know, 'pirates' never really held a sort of 'government' anywhere else. Kind of like Sencliff.

Meanwhile, if we want examples of Tyranny, we can point to almost anywhere, at any time, throughout history.

Nassau appears mostly formed by a power vacuum rather than a kind of election we'd see take place in Arelith (or Guldorand in your example). It would be like putting the story of Nassau onto London or something. It just doesn't really make much sense.

TLDR: Apples and Oranges.

Edit: Sigh. I just realized you were talking about citizenship and not settlement government. Oops. Well I'll just leave this here as food for thought.
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Re: Pirate Citizinship

Post by Eyeliner » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:42 am

Real life examples aside there are just certain guideposts set up get us to play certain ways. Pirate and outcast status are a bit confining but it's because if they weren't too many players would want the best of all possible worlds (as they did when outcast tags were much more liberal). You can argue but the point isn't historical verisimilitude, it's to keep us in our lanes.

I would say you could potentially be a citizen of somewhere and try and run with the Sencliff pirates without the ink. Whether they accept you is up to them but AFAIK there is no rule saying you can't, you just wouldn't be able to access certain pirate amenities.

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Re: Pirate Citizinship

Post by AstralUniverse » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:00 am

One could argue that while Banites are scary, malicious, heartless and bull headed - they can blend in society and be a functional part of it way better than someone who inked themselves into piracy and marked themselves as the opposite of 'society lawfulness'. If I need to recruit guards for the City Guard, I take the Banite over the Pirate any day.
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Re: Pirate Citizinship

Post by Rasha » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:46 pm

It would be far easier to simply create a character that is not a pirate, if you wish to be involved in surface Governorship. There is nothing to stop pirates from attempting to influence/strong arm government officials.

Pirates already have Sencliff and the Guldorand Freeport to play out their desires to be free of all government control, in a state of anarchy. They are also free to attempt to take over Sencliff. Endeavor to be a “Pirate King” of Sencliff or a Gang Leader/Mob Boss of the Freeport. Only the strong survive.

One could also RP a redemption arc, and accept whatever consequences come with having their ink removed. Warning is given when characters are created, about what to expect as a pirate player.

Sencliff pirates are Arelith villains. Not “as bad” as an outcast, but bad enough that they are not welcome. Not mechanically speaking, but you could look at an Outcast as being permanently exiled, and look at Pirates as being permanent pariahs. Neither are folks that a law-abiding society would allow to rule, or even be citizens.
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Re: Pirate Citizinship

Post by -XXX- » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:16 pm

It's important to also look at this matter through the lens of the setting:

Cordor monarchy seeks to defend Amnian interests by trying to control the naval activities around the island. To this end, the number of legally approved ships around Arelith is kept low and under supervision.
Pirates are in direct opposition to this. They operate illegal ships not approved by the Crown and often disrupt Amnian trade routes.
That makes pirates outlaws in the eyes of the Crown.


Now for comparison:


The worship of Bane is not really evil. Yes, the sourcebooks might tell us that the FR god Bane is evil and his worship gives him power, which might lead us to a conclusion that whoever worships an evil god must be team evil. But that's strongly an OOC perspective.
Most people in FR worship multiple gods - they turn to benevolent deities like Lathander, Tymora, the Triad or Chauntea for prosperity and protection, but they also pray to less benevolent gods like Bane, Talos, Talona, Beshaba or Umberlee to appease them in order to avoid misfortune.
When we look at the setting and Cordor monarchy, we might realize that the worship of Bane is not only legal, but even encouraged as the Queen herself is a worshipper of Bane.


So I guess that might answer the question why Banites can become citizens while pirates cannot.

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