Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

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Kalthariam
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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Kalthariam » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:08 pm

McPunchins wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:15 pm
Kalthariam wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:41 am
I just kinda find kill-bashing to be pointless.

Especially seeing how most of the kill bashing I see done, is people dragging bodies around the underdark portal and bashing the corpses there to leave the remains there with the intention of shaming them.

Which is really kinda awkward when said person walks by their own corpse, because it's the hub and it's right next to the portal and that person revived anyways and continued on. (As you do no matter if your bashed or not)

I get it's just to stop people from raising the corpses. But it's also a bloody eye sore when people decide to bash a buncha corpses in a public place, and there's nothing you can do to make the corpses go away.

Not to mention ICly it's gross as hell to have 1-4 headless corpses just laying around a portal, and there's nothing you can do about it.

this could easily just be made to where you hit a body and the body just disappears completely. instead of leaving a broken remains perpetually stuck in place until the server resets.
This thread isn't about removing killbashing, read the posts. It is about providing an option for killbashed characters through applying actual sourcebook definition to the spell Resurrection and making it usable on bashed corpses. Also the suggestion of "trophy" items added to the coin purse interaction when you pick a corpse up the first time. Although I don't disagree that bashing a bunch of corpses right next to the Hub portal doesn't really make much sense in character a lot of the time and is just an inconvenient eyesore for most people. I think that could be resolved by giving corpses a "decay" timer but that is a different discussion really.
Hi, sorry.

I wasn't trying to advocate for the removal of corpse bashing. I just saw the conversation about it also popping up in the thread and also wanted to put some input in.

I'm perfectly okay with the idea of Resurrection bringing back a bashed corpse like it realistically should.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Biolab00 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:45 pm

Arienette wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:30 pm
I don’t understand the hard feelings about bashing a corpse IN GENERAL. I know it can be used as an uncalled for FU.

Sometimes in PvP I subdue, sometimes I kill, sometimes I kill bash. It depends on the context.

I’ve once or twice PvPed people in the middle of nowhere and KBed them due to the intensity/context of the encounter.

Then gotten a Tell from the player complaining about the bash. Like, what does it matter? You got killed in the middle of nowhere . The chances of some friendly person coming by, seeing your corpse, picking it up, assuming you are still online, dropping what they are doing, walking all the way back to a shrine to res you are… close to nil.
I really like your description, really do. It's very close to nil because I've seen too many times, corpse was more of, pickup to loot for gold and if there's no gold, put down on the ground. And IF there is gold, all the more reason not to res you...
That's the more realistic situation. The only way that you can get res, is more often that the player is suddenly way too generous ( take it as a 5% chance ) or OOC / IC(party member that are still alive) friend help. I can't think of any other.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Dreams » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:23 pm

Ork wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:34 pm
The only person within your control is yourself. If you are bashed, attributing OOC animosity for the act is entirely on you.
Can we please put “The only person within your control is yourself.” as a fundamental principle of Arelith please? I feel like the player base understanding the concept of things inside/outside of your control would entirely solve many issues.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by The GrumpyCat » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:26 pm

Biolab00 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:45 pm
Arienette wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:30 pm
I don’t understand the hard feelings about bashing a corpse IN GENERAL. I know it can be used as an uncalled for FU.

Sometimes in PvP I subdue, sometimes I kill, sometimes I kill bash. It depends on the context.

I’ve once or twice PvPed people in the middle of nowhere and KBed them due to the intensity/context of the encounter.

Then gotten a Tell from the player complaining about the bash. Like, what does it matter? You got killed in the middle of nowhere . The chances of some friendly person coming by, seeing your corpse, picking it up, assuming you are still online, dropping what they are doing, walking all the way back to a shrine to res you are… close to nil.
I really like your description, really do. It's very close to nil because I've seen too many times, corpse was more of, pickup to loot for gold and if there's no gold, put down on the ground. And IF there is gold, all the more reason not to res you...
That's the more realistic situation. The only way that you can get res, is more often that the player is suddenly way too generous ( take it as a 5% chance ) or OOC / IC(party member that are still alive) friend help. I can't think of any other.
Eh, to be fair this has happened to me a few times, and I know I've done it for other people. Honestly my first act when finding a corpse is to see if the player is still online and if they are I'll tend to raise them, unless I've very good reason not to.

The idea of raising from bashed remains is... interesting. I think my concern still stands though - as really that just encourages someone to take your corpse their home... or somewhere really remote, bash you there and you get the same issue right?

Still, it's an alright idea.
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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:40 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:26 pm
Biolab00 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:45 pm
Arienette wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:30 pm
I don’t understand the hard feelings about bashing a corpse IN GENERAL. I know it can be used as an uncalled for FU.

Sometimes in PvP I subdue, sometimes I kill, sometimes I kill bash. It depends on the context.

I’ve once or twice PvPed people in the middle of nowhere and KBed them due to the intensity/context of the encounter.

Then gotten a Tell from the player complaining about the bash. Like, what does it matter? You got killed in the middle of nowhere . The chances of some friendly person coming by, seeing your corpse, picking it up, assuming you are still online, dropping what they are doing, walking all the way back to a shrine to res you are… close to nil.
I really like your description, really do. It's very close to nil because I've seen too many times, corpse was more of, pickup to loot for gold and if there's no gold, put down on the ground. And IF there is gold, all the more reason not to res you...
That's the more realistic situation. The only way that you can get res, is more often that the player is suddenly way too generous ( take it as a 5% chance ) or OOC / IC(party member that are still alive) friend help. I can't think of any other.
Eh, to be fair this has happened to me a few times, and I know I've done it for other people. Honestly my first act when finding a corpse is to see if the player is still online and if they are I'll tend to raise them, unless I've very good reason not to.

The idea of raising from bashed remains is... interesting. I think my concern still stands though - as really that just encourages someone to take your corpse their home... or somewhere really remote, bash you there and you get the same issue right?

Still, it's an alright idea.
I agree with Arienette. Biolab's got some good points, too, although I don't automatically assume the worst and I lean into Grumpy's train of thought- personally, I lean into my character's alignment for these situations. If the player is still online, I'll usually attempt to take their corpse to a shrine if they're interested in RP, but the motivations vary- is the character a friend/ally or a random stranger/sucker to exploit (IC, not the player) in exchange for their life?

Am I good? I might sell gear to afford the raise, depending on the circumstances - or I might bury/burn the body and hold character-relevant last rites.

Am I neutral? Who, exactly, do I see dead on the side of the road, and what do they mean to me? Will this bankrupt me? Hard no. Am I overflowing with gold?

Am I evil? Looks like I just found a potential lackey -best used as distractions from the thing I'm going to be doing over there instead, in a way that will also be rewarding for them, because if it's not in their best interest why would they go along with it? Evil doesn't mean dumb. I'm definitely not selling anything to afford the raise, though.

Regarding resurrection being able to raise bashed corpses - I'm actually okay with this, if you put a ten minute activation OR delay on the spell taking place - if using it on someone that dies in PvP. This is ALSO how it works in PnP, regardless of how the person died - you were never meant to run around the battlefield in the middle of a fight and bring someone back from the dead at full health instantly.

It shouldn't be used in combat unless it's an extremely dramatic and drawn out combat - a 10 minute casting time is 100 rounds, just to cast the spell. Reviving someone who's already been slain mid-combat is its own dramatic mission in and of itself. If we really want to run down the table-top rabbit hole, one could argue that wizards can do it with Wish, but it also costs them 5K XP to duplicate the resurrection spell as a standard action - and they still have to pony up ten thousand gold worth of diamonds for the spell I'm wrong, the wish does cover a 10k component cost.

Even raise dead is supposed to take a full minute to cast- not quite unachievable, but not really a tactically sound decision in the middle of combat, either- unless the person you're reviving is about 20 levels higher than you. :-P

In fact, even if there's no change to how bashed corpses interact with resurrection, I'd still say that's a change that merits consideration. It follows the design logic of the spell's intention and removes the ugly minefield of what happens with the 24-hour rule if someone is revived in the middle of combat.
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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by dominantdrowess » Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:46 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:00 pm
Resurrection works on "bashed" corpses. This is actually more lore accurate to sourcebook materials than current Resurrection (double win)

Ear or Finger or "whatever" trinket when you take a purse off a corpse killed by a player the first time it is picked up. This will help reduce the need to killbash simply for bounties/trophies.
Reguarding giving corpses giving Ear/Finger - YES. YES. YES. I personally want this SO much. YES! It has been discussed and I really, really hope it happens. YES.

Wierdly enough though - I'm not so sure about your first point.

The reason I say this is the following:

Sometimes you absolutly positivly completely and utterly want a charcter /gone/. Finito. Over. This isn't neccesarly griefy, it can just really be the only line a character would take.

If I'm faced with say Grimbar Doomface, who has killed, tortured and mutilated myslelf and dozens of my friends/loved ones I won't be like 'oh let's leave his bashed corpse here so it can be resurrected.'

Instead my character will work to try and ensure that there is as little chance as possible he will be resurrected. Which means putting the corpse in a barrel, hiding it in the woods, carrying it with me - anything to make sure that Grimbar Doomface cannot return to this world on an iC level.

This creates problems for the player - or at least does in my opinion, as they're left waiting in limbo, to see if they'll be raised or not. I don't have a huge amount of time to play personally and honestly I'd much rather respawn and get on with some form of activity/rp, after five min. Then wait for ages with no knowledge of if there's any rp coming or not.

Of course, this can be done though tells... 'Hay mate, are you going to resurrect me?' - but often such things can go south quickly. especially if tempers are already hot. If you've had a pvp experience that is already poor, do you really want to engage your attackers in dialogue? Especially if they say 'No mate sorry, we've no reason to drop your corpse off somewhere to be raised.'

So whilst I'm absolutly in agreement that some other form of trophy would be great - sadly bashing does actually serve a purpose.
See, I don't like bashing personally. I suffer it more often than I do it ... although I admit to killing people in the course of my character's general activity.

In practice? It's usually:

- Character: "Hi, I don't like what you're doing, sneaking around close behind me -- I'd like to come to a non-violent compromise to get you to stop doing it. What do you need or want to accomplish that I can help with so you don't have to do this thing, and I don't have to fight you."
- Person Refuses To Compromise or talk about alternatives.
- Subdue Said Somebody and reiterate that this is serious and you want them to stop doing a specific thing.
- Person Refuses To Compromise or Talk about alternatives and argues that they have a right to do what they've been told not to do and starts threatening you or claiming you cannot do the thing you obviously just did.
- Execute The Person In Cold Blood.
- Trash Barrel if the person is of a significant faction you don't want to embarrass or anger further and just keep the disagreement between you and them so conflict doesn't spread or they don't feel they have to save face.
- Go explain what happened to the next of kin or allies and take full responsibility and explain your reasoning, what happened and why you did it.


The only time my character puts the body on display or takes ahead? Is when someone else needs to know what happened for tactical or community value -- usually thieves, people who don't belong like spies and enemies of the settlement from outside, and other people that it is tactically or monetarily significant for other people to know died -- or a bounty you're going to get paid for.

Typically, if it's an Andunorian of another (coherently labeled) faction? The body goes in the garbage so they aren't too mad or embarrassed long-term, to try to salvage some ability to negotiate once their blood cools and they realize violence and stone-wall resistance WILL NOT get them what they want. Often this results in people fading -- which isn't the intent; the intent is to stop the undesirable IC behavior without any OOC malice -- but when a person on the ground is still threatening you with violence ... typically they gotta die because they're acting like their death is irrelevant and nothing useful will come from showing mercy to a person who isn't being rational both before AND after the violence has swung one way or the other.

The above isn't UNIVERSALLY true, but it's true often enough that MOST players standing over a subdued player will follow something remotely similar to this... order of operations when a subdued person mouths off.

But that second reality check ... is always key to me, as part of my trying to follow the be-nice rule. I ***WANT*** to RP with people. But I also want that pickpocket, spy, thief, whatever to know:

My character is a large woman with a resting drow face who carries a two-handed sword ... and generally isn't amused by the shenanigans of most sneaky-sneak-types who like to sit in corners and write reports on locals.

If my character ends up on the ground, and can physically and verbally comply -- that works. Only time I've not been able is sometimes, if you're captured by a huge crowd (say after a surface raid gone bad) and the leader walks away? You have 8+ people trying to do their own individual interrogation and talking over eachother at a prisoner they want to grind it into and I'm literally unable to keep up with 5+ conversations in 4 different languages that are not acknowledging eachother and making independant demands for attention.. The moment you fall behind in one of the conversations or miss a couple of words in a row from the same person ... THAT person will typically take it upon themselves to execute you and bash you without ANYONE in the crowd having ANY sympathy whatsoever for that.

A dead drow is typically not enough to break any alliances. If you get tossed to a big mob like that, as a prisoner? You're usually dead. The prison cells are as much to protect your prisoner from random vendettas as to keep them from escaping - Game of Thrones Season 2.

( Nathaniel knows the crazy event I'm talking about, haha.. )

Being able to cast True Resurrection on the bashed body, or the head itself would be nice though.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Amateur Hour » Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:50 am

Maybe this is just me (and for what it's worth, I've played on Arelith more than a year and can count all my PvP experiences on one hand), but I'm struggling to see the toxicity aspect of corpse destruction. There's only three circumstances in which that could happen:
  1. You die in PvP and your enemy destroys your body. This puts post-death RP off the table, but as not everyone is into post-death RP (or may have other narrative reasons to avoid it), you're no worse off than if your body just lay there indefinitely.
  2. You die in PvE, someone else comes across your body, and they choose to destroy your corpse. That just means whoever killed you is (likely) either evil or and enemy and likely wouldn't have rescued you either.
  3. You die in PvP or PvE and an ally accidentally destroys your body with friendly fire. This is an accident; it's neither toxic nor nontoxic. It just is.
It sounds like a lot of the concern with point 1 is the humiliation aspect of it: "I killed so-and-so, see my proof; look how weak they are." But characters can claim that regardless, and if the humiliation is being felt on the player level, it's probably a good idea to remember that 1) characters are not their players, and 2) there are a million things--internet hiccups, slow computer, child screaming, etc.--that are completely outside of a player's control that can swing the outcome of PvP. You could win from dumb luck, or you could lose from dumb luck.

I will also say that corpse destruction isn't necessarily malicious or evil; one of my NG characters has come across bodies of people who appear to be offline and has opted to burn them because they're too heavy to carry, but leaving them unattended means they're lying around for any passing animal or animator.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Wethrinea » Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:01 am

I don't have strong opinions on kill-bashing itself, but I find the fact that bashed remains (and heads) persist after the character has respawned to be rather immersion breaking. Especially in those cases where you can see the character very much alive, next to not one, but two bashed remains of said character.

Or the whole "Haha, I got your head, look" silliness.

My proposal would be that remains disappear when a character re-spawns. Because why would they not? Same with heads, at least after some time (Two RL days? Three?), as I understand it is vital for some characters to parade around heads for a bit.
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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by dominantdrowess » Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:10 am

Wethrinea wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:01 am
I don't have strong opinions on kill-bashing itself, but I find the fact that bashed remains (and heads) persist after the character has respawned to be rather immersion breaking. Especially in those cases where you can see the character very much alive, next to not one, but two bashed remains of said character.

Or the whole "Haha, I got your head, look" silliness.

My proposal would be that remains disappear when a character re-spawns. Because why would they not? Same with heads, at least after some time (Two RL days? Three?), as I understand it is vital for some characters to parade around heads for a bit.
Maybe add charges to the head, and it disappears within 24 hours when the 24-hour rule is up?

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Wenchslayer » Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:26 am

The mechanic is not the problem and this post reads like someone trying to rationalize personal feelings after the fact. Just take a break and come back later. We've all been there.
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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by AstralUniverse » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:07 am

The GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:26 pm
The idea of raising from bashed remains is... interesting. I think my concern still stands though - as really that just encourages someone to take your corpse their home... or somewhere really remote, bash you there and you get the same issue right?

Still, it's an alright idea.
It's a pretty bad idea. It's going to look so dumb and cause the classic Arelithian paradox - when you respawn and see your own bashed corpse on the snow of Skaljard - it looks and feels dumb and you need to filter it and pretend it's not there. Lets not add more mechanics who cause situations like this.
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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Tabby » Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:27 am

You get killedbashed, shrug it off, dont feel bad about it.

Its all about how YOU handle it, to be honest..
When it happens to me, its.. indifferent, i lost.. fair and square.

Honestly.. you are the one feeling griefed.. if tells is made toward you in a very inapproriate language, report it, big time.
If the player killing you use some PvP involving "Not nice" rules.. report it.

But you should not be affected by it.

When my character dies in either PvP or PvE, i return from Limbo, then walk to a Tavern, logs off, and either plays another character or just logs for the day (that way you character Rests up his wounds) or RP with him or her in Town/Tavern until the Penalties are gone

But the main advice is: Do not get angered, sad and the such. Its just a game, and you lost one fight, it will happend and it will happend again. :)

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Archnon » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:20 pm

Honestly, what am I missing here? The server death penalty is so minor, MODs are optional. Why the need to get raised. And don't tell me that it makes RPing death easier. If anything,it might encourage abusing it more. Proper RP of death is about your if reaction to it, or, fear, need for rest, etc, and 6our approach to conflict. It has nothing to do with the potential to be raised.

If you die and get the penalty, go somewhere and RP, or log off and take a walk. The only thing I can think of is you want to jump back into combat action, in which case you might be playing the wrong game.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by TurningLeaf » Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:11 pm

Why is this such a source of drama when you can just respawn and the xp penalty is so negligible, so recoverable. I really really am not seeing it. You don't lose items on death. Res or no res does not affect marks. The reasons I would speculate that someone might be caught up on this could be construed as offensive so I would rather someone just tell me why it's such a big deal.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Arigard » Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:30 pm

Kill-bashing is absolutely not toxic by default. It's simply an ending to that encounter that is final.

The examples given in this thread are absolutely anecdotal. Some guy telling you a year ago he kill bashed you because "Someone else did it to me" is not proof of anything except that someone took the game way too seriously at one point or another. It's not a damning verdict on the ability to bash someones corpse.

If the issue is "toxic behavior", which let's be honest, is not the intention 95% of players go in with, you're not going to stop it with this suggestion. If a player seriously wants to go out of their way to stop you from resurrecting, they'll just grab your body the moment it drops and hold onto it, or hide it somewhere nobody can see it.

If the above feels like a better solution (someone simply hiding or holding your body until you re-spawn), then perhaps we should examine that this suggestion is born from an actual desire to not want people to have the ability to see you've been killed at all/left somewhere. That's an ego issue and has nothing to do with the actual mechanics, or 'toxicity' of kill-bashing.

Ultimately, If seeing the pixels of your head with your name floating above it, or body somewhere public just fills you with rage OOC, then as some others have said in this thread, a re-evaluation needs to be done of why you are playing and what impact it is actually having on your well being.

If you are playing Arelith and you don't have the emotionally maturity to deal with the concept that your character might die and the knowledge of their death may become public - then you really shouldn't be playing at all.
Last edited by Arigard on Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by -XXX- » Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:59 pm

From what I've seen bashing usually happens for two main reasons:

a) to get the PC head - this often serves as caliming the proof of the deed. It's important not to percieve this as a form of rubbing in the loss. On the contrary: It does actually have a rather flattering element to it, because it means that your character is important enough to some people that they even bother doing this.

b) to keep the encounter clean - especially during chaotic mass PvP encounters this can be a very good way for players to enforce the PvP rules. Someone might get carried away and start spamming ressurections left and right during an ongoing fight, completely forgetting that's an explicit violation of the PvP rules. Immediately bashing corpses after each kill prevents that from happening.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Drogo Gyslain » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:27 pm

There's really a simple solution to once and done killbashing.

Make the Corpse difficult mechanically to destroy.

Once a body has been dropped, give it a very high durability from attack, and make it immune to critical effects. Raise the durability of it to something very high, so that you can't just 1-hit the thing and make it destroyed.

Bodies take alot of time to destroy in reality. Cutting the head off may only take the swing of the sword but we also need to factor in the fact that killbashing is effectively destroying the body to the point it can be no longer resurrected. No matter how that is done, wether by fire, Acid, or straight up Dexter Morgan-ing the corpse with a knife.

Make it like a Phylacter, where the durability is suitable to where it can't be destroyed in one or two hits, and it must be a deliberate and sustained action requiring multiple attacks.

That does 2 things:

1) It forces characters to make an explicit action to destroy the corpse. No more accidental body killbashes, no more AOE explosions that wipe out half a dropped team. Destroying the body and making it un-raisable is something that needs to be alot harder than what it already is.

2) It gives the other team the opportunity to retrieve and recover bodies without worrying about Drop-and-killbashes. "Oh snap, we're getting chased! Quick, bash the bodies!" (Yes, I've witnessed this happening on multiple occasions.) Because there is time to be invested in the action of bashing the body not just for the head but for the corpse to be fully destroyed, it plays a bit better into the lore and scope of resurrecting the body as well. Raising someone from the dead into a new body as it is already feels... well... Video-gamey as it is and it lends itself to the joke that PCs never truly die. Even when we see the bodies and their heads, we are told to RP it as "Oh, treat it like it didn't happen". Characters (like Keph) famously have watched their former corpse being stuffed into trash bins and disposed of infront of themselves. Realistically, the way raising works, this should never be possible. Yet I bet you if I do the wrong thing I could easily find my own head for sale in a stall and have the opportunity to purchase my own skull (even though this is now against the rules, it's happened before.)

So, Make corpses an investment to destroy. Remove the quick and dirty, and make them an actual chore to break. Make them like Phylacters and the decision and effort required to destroy them significant to the point where multiple attacks are required to do so.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Hazard » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:42 am

I like kill-bashing but it would be great to be able to take a trophy or something without having to destroy the whole corpse.
Also, resurrection working on remains SOUNDS good, but this is Arelith, a very high magic server with demi-gods running around all over the place. Resurrection is not exactly rare, and allowing it to work on remains would essentially just make it so kill-bashing doesn't work anymore.

Maybe if there was a -trueres added for healer/undeath clerics that works on remains, in the same line as lifelink(or whatever it's called)? That way at least not anyone with a book of souls/scroll/bcleric etc can just by-pass a good bashing.

I really don't think bashing a corpse is toxic vindinctive behaviour though. It can be, but anything can be, so I'll have to disagree with that opinion.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Biolab00 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:50 am

Hazard wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:42 am
I really don't think bashing a corpse is toxic vindinctive behaviour though. It can be, but anything can be, so I'll have to disagree with that opinion.
I like this sentence very much. Anything can be. There's plenty of things that can be grieved about. If the current situation is generally accepted by the Masses, changes made are really not worth the effort.

If you're asking how to determine Masses, you should see the Sun domain spell trigger Sunlight effect on Drow during when the change was first made. You can see how many negatives are immediately posted. Mind you, Drow really stands for low population in the entire Arelith and the fact that it gets stomped with so much negativity within 2 days, said much about the attitude of the Masses. This is simply one of the example.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by ReverentBlade » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:32 am

Aniel wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:41 pm
This is one of the craziest threads I've read in awhile.

I'll echo Garrbear's sentiments. Go outside, touch some grass, consider therapy.
Implying that people are crazy and need therapy because they find a game mechanic distasteful and would like to talk about it is pretty rude and insensitive. And likewise insulting to people that suffer from problems that legitimately require therapy. You'd think we'd know better than to pull out these low-brow comments by now. If you don't personally find the issue important, there's no need to open your mouth/comment box. Its basically a coded way of saying "stop whining" and its an ableist form of bullying.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Lexx » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:33 am

ReverentBlade wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:32 am
Aniel wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:41 pm
This is one of the craziest threads I've read in awhile.

I'll echo Garrbear's sentiments. Go outside, touch some grass, consider therapy.
Implying that people are crazy and need therapy because they find a game mechanic distasteful and would like to talk about it is pretty rude and insensitive. And likewise insulting to people that suffer from problems that legitimately require therapy. You'd think we'd know better than to pull out these low-brow comments by now. If you don't personally find the issue important, there's no need to open your mouth/comment box. Its basically a coded way of saying "stop whining" and its an ableist form of bullying.
I'd have to +1 on this, Reverent Blade. You don't have to be having issues to want change to a mechanic that tends to not really contribute much positive to the server. That's a meh outlook.

Overall I would agree with you, McPunchins and wouldn't mind seeing at the very least the mechanics around it change in a way that doesn't feed back into OOC grudges that have been seen time and again shaping the way people behave in past.

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Re: Killbashing is toxic vindictive behavior - A Solution

Post by Lindos » Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:31 am

I'll be locking this thread as it's been
A: Mostly repeating what's been said
B: Latest few posts aren't contributing and getting more personal
C: Turning into a suggestion thread more than a feedback thread (and the suggestion box is still closed)

This also serves as a reminder that the Be Nice rule counts for the forums as well, not just the game.
Discord: Lindos#9637

Locked