Sail Skill

[Lewtzy]

There has been some talking in circles yes.

Let me state this as a pirate. I more often then not sail with a score below 60 since I love to just go out and show new ppl the ropes.

Icly some of the ppl here know that my character, if you met him, offered to show other characters the ropes or to take them out sailing.

You are absolutely fine with a crew average sailscore of around 50 for the first two circles around arelith. Sure you need to pick which ships to engage and need to repair some damage on board but that goes for all content on Arelith. Sometimes you need to buff more or spam healkits etc. For comparison.

That's that for PvE.


When it comes to PvP however we turn into a whole other line of content. Where the high sailscore will matter more. And I think this is where people believe things to be unfair.

But yes, let me be frank here ignoring the sailscore slightly for a moment. Even I as a well trained pirate (+2 sail on all my MAIN gear, esf sail, 36 wis cleric loremaster), will need to run when I see other ship on the horizon.

I know I'm going out on dangerous waters if the average skill is not high enough. Or if I cannot find enough crew members to join. And it's a risk I take.

There are several factions that can sink me and my less skilled crew with ease.


I personally believe, as has been stated above, that there is a risk factor in this all. Yes there need to be some tweaks but there is already talk about diminishing returns on skill difference. Which is awesome.

But imagine yourself going into RDI with a small group of players. Sure you might be strong but you're prepared for PvE.
If a hunting group of PvP ppl scried you and comes in prepared. You won't stand a chance.

The seas are the same.

[Nevrus]

If that small group of players came to RDI they'd be compelled by the rules of the server to give you an out if you weren't about that to run away with your tail between your legs, and they'd have to at least talk to you first.

With the sail system, it's perfectly possible to be attacked by a ship one square away that you CANNOT SEE, and CANNOT EVADE because their speed is higher than yours due to ship stats, and CANNOT SURVIVE because they can kill you before you can even escape the quadrant.

All with a menu on their part.

It's optional for them to even grapple and board in the first place. The winning move is to just sink the ship and pat yourself on the back for being so good at putting together a gear set and investing in a skill.

There's no mechanical skill expression involved in this exchange. There's bad luck and an auto-win. If you're outclassed the winning move is to just lens away- something cheaper than the expected piracy fees. Or free if you have an epic transmuter.

Before the change, I used the sailing system extensively on multiple characters- both on the pirate and tourist sailor sides. It was fun and relaxing to be on the water for extended periods of time, and boardings were usually story moments that were tense and interesting.

Now I hear about ships getting exploded without any capacity to interact and it's actually way less interesting to get involved in. I need a crew of characters heavily invested in a specific skill in order to even spot ships on the horizon to evade in the first place. If I get spotted there's a chance that there isn't even going to be a boarding- just a quick trip to the respawn screen because some people had higher numbers and want to feel like they're a super awesome murder pirate by... Clicking on a menu a bunch without actually meaningfully interacting.

Even with the changes to the engagement rules, this system enables degenerate, uninteresting ganking behavior equivalent to being attacked from stealth and killed in one round without any meaningful interaction, except the person remains in stealth the entire time.

Spotting and Skullduggery need to significantly change, end of story, and the entire ship sinking system needs to be re-thought for this to enforce actual meaningful roleplay and not enable death-by-menu. The stakes of sailing have been raised up so much higher that it's become the equivalent of trying to raid an enemy settlement, except it's all the time. This has honestly worsened the experience, hence the contention existing that should be acknowledged.

I spent two months on a zen exploration mission on a monk and even let my character be enslaved just to hang out in Sencliff and go sailing more. The idea that all of that can just be cut short by skill-invested people not even bothering to board if they don't want to kind of kills my interest. It's become an activity that's no longer something you Can Do if you feel like it, but rather something you have to Plan To Do From Character Creation, or otherwise hoping there's an active crew in your time zone that will take you along. If there isn't, get wrecked casul. Warning shot, flag change, Fire, reload, fire, win.

*deep breath*

Forcing surrender flags to be honored as a pvp rule would fix all this and I'd get all my chill back so I can have catty conversations with my attackers and pay them off to be on my way if I wanted to sail on a non-sail character without being killed by a menu.

[Lewtzy]

Forcing surrender flags to be honored as a pvp rule would fix all this and I'd get all my chill back so I can have catty conversations with my attackers and pay them off to be on my way if I wanted to sail on a non-sail character without being killed by a menu.

I agree to the fullest. White flag should perhaps even disable shooting.
The only downside is abuse (white flag, run, repair, come back to sink) But that goes for all mechanical systems I'm afraid.

[Rei_Jin]

Forcing surrender flags to be honored as a pvp rule would fix all this and I'd get all my chill back so I can have catty conversations with my attackers and pay them off to be on my way if I wanted to sail on a non-sail character without being killed by a menu.

I agree to the fullest. White flag should perhaps even disable shooting.
The only downside is abuse (white flag, run, repair, come back to sink) But that goes for all mechanical systems I'm afraid.

Realistically, once ship PvP begins, it could/should (does?) follow the same 24 hour rule that normal PvP does. Once you've been engaged in PvP (or engaged someone else in PvP) and there's a result, even if that result is that someone ran away (and gets away), there's a 24 hour cool-off for both sides.

Running the white flag is a surrender, a capitulation. Once the engagement ends, either because you run away or the victor lets you go, both sides should not be chasing the other, or getting their friends to, or engaging through other forms (message boards, wisps, etc.) for 24 hours.

I'm personally unclear on whether this is the rule, as it's not something I've had to deal with.

Sure, someone could run the white flag, then try to turn to combat when/if the victor boards them. But there's ways around that IG, and there's always the possibility that a mechanical solution for such things will be implemented.

Can someone go back home after being sunk and say "The XXX sank us, those dastardly dogs!"? Sure they can.

Should their buddies be going out to attack the XXX? Whether it be Sencliff crews going after mainlanders, or the other way around, both sides have plenty of ships potentially at their disposal to do so. But it may be that once there's been ship-based PvP that both sides need to honour a 24 hour ceasefire between themselves, and their allies.

But if Sencliff and the mainland are on a 24 hour ceasefire and the UD turns up in a ship, that doesn't mean the ceasefire need apply to them, and ship PvP may be on again; just between different parties.

If this isn't currently the situation, then perhaps it should be.

And this is why flags become important, and alliances need to be clearly spelled out, at least to the DMs and faction leaders, if not publicly.

[-stick-]

Forcing surrender flags to be honored as a pvp rule would fix all this and I'd get all my chill back so I can have catty conversations with my attackers and pay them off to be on my way if I wanted to sail on a non-sail character without being killed by a menu.

I agree to the fullest. White flag should perhaps even disable shooting.
The only downside is abuse (white flag, run, repair, come back to sink) But that goes for all mechanical systems I'm afraid.

Maybe if the skill would take Total crew value for defense like with stealth then Average sailors could have a chance to escape such pvp encounters with a lens and not die in one round ?

[Lewtzy]

Perhaps even simpler.

Setting white flag douses your sails and enables boarding by other vessels for 10 minutes.
It also disables your own weapons to fire on PC ships and prevents any PC ship from firing on your ship.

(I specifically state PC ship because it can happen that you're already fighting an NPC ship at the same time. Don't want that to be sinking you on a white flag)

[-XXX-]

"The XXX sank us, those dastardly dogs!"

I resent these baseless accusations!

[Arienette]

The way ship-ship artillery PvP works now is honestly very strangely out of line with how other PvP works on my opinion.

I don’t understand why it’s even possible to skink another player ship, rather than just disable it for boarding.

[Lewtzy]

I disagree with that. You can die in PvP rather than being subdued. Very easily I might add.

The biggest difference is the lead up to pvp and the end to pvp. There are several different plans in discussion about it to streamline it to make it fair and fun for all. Even for those who dont like to lose. (hopefully)

[-XXX-]

The ship sinking isn't actually such a big deal. There's usually enough time to evacuate and even if the character doesn't make it in time, they die only if they fail a constitution save. The biggest drawback of losing a naval battle is the ship becoming inoperable until the next reset, so the stakes really aren't that high and I wouldn't sweat over winning/losing.

I just wish that the encouters would've become less one-sided and more interesting.

[Distant Relation]

Aimed at noone in particular:

It's a continued wonder how much of all that's being complained here is either a misunderstanding of the mechanics of sailing, pure hearsay, or simply rehashing points that have been mentioned are already being discussed and addressed as feedback.

There's no master plan here. There's no secret cabal Illuminati of people wanting to dominate the seas and shut you out of them. There's no reason to! Instead sea pvp encounters have overwhelmingly been drivers of roleplay, on sea and on land. There's been so much tension and conversation, so many deals going back and forth between the various nations of the surface and Sencliff. Certain recent FOIG events were likely the first time in a long time so many surfacer characters from so many different settlements all sailed together to try and drive pirates out.

The RP is happening. Saying there's no RP is a lie.

The *problem* is that for some reason, some folks have decided RP isn't real unless it happens in sword swinging range.


Look, all we want is for such a thing as a sailing build to exist. Just like there's other specialized builds for other things. If everyone's a sailor, -noone is-. Would it kill you to hire on one or two dedicated sail characters to bump your sail average into the 90s? Seriously, that's all it takes. It doesn't even have to be -your- character. You could be one of the sad barbarians in my scenario above.


You did read the part about how sail average works, right?

Instead we have an ever increasing kaleidoscope of made-up scenarios, anything that might stick to the wall, including completely imaginary disaster scenarios of how pvp is conducted at sea to try and strike that emotional 'this is anti-rp' chord that we see whenever arguments get difficult in these forums. Funny how none of the clarifications about some misunderstood sea mechanics, like sail average, seem to move the needle much on the opinion.

It's not anti-rp for your character to not be good at literally everything.
It's not anti-rp for you to surrender and lose face before a better prepared enemy fighting in their element.

It's definitely good RP to prepare better for next time, including hiring on specialists who ARE good at that element. You might even talk to other people when you do it! And imagine how happy they will be when their investment (actual investment, not "I had spare skill points") gets rewarded by them being recognized in-game as a *sailor*. A specialist in their niche, needed for something that others can't quite match.

Imagine that.

It might be a new experience for some of the folks who are dipping into sea pvp for the first time, thinking they can just rush to board and "RP" their enemies with their swords, then being shocked that it does not work quite like that, but that's no reason to then completely change the rules of the game to twist reality and make your character an instant Blackbeard, just add sail gear.

[pewpewx]

So what is the problem with making the highest sailing score available to characters not built for such purpose:

You are discounting hundreds of hours dedicated sailing crews (Pirates, Navy etc) spent to get there, gimping their characters to do a single purpose, to be successful sailors, to dominate the sea after struggling with suboptimal performance caused by taking Gift of Sailing, Skill Focus: Sail, Epic Skill Focus: Sail, Loremaster levels and such.

If you do not want to get into the competitive part of the sea you are able to travel through the inner waters of Arelith without a single chance of being attacked. It is your personal choice to get a higher reward with higher risk if you leave inner waters. If you wish to put a successful competition against dedicated characters in a competitive area, you have to be dedicated yourself, that's how it works no matter in real life or in fantasy. If you believe you can put less effort and face foes who basically built their characters around sailing, you are, again, want to devalue their effort of achieving high sail score. People who spend their time crafting, invest feats and crafting are better in crafting. Same goes with sailing. It is how it works. Want to compete? Make a dedicated sailor character. Invest, struggle, achieve.

If you struggle with defeating optimal, competitive epic crew in the sea. There are IC options:

1) Hire a navy to fight pirates (there is a very high sailing skill navy on Arelith) and challenge pirate crews.
2) Hire pirates crews to fight Navy.
3) Offer them payment once you are approached, talk to them making some agreement, giving them a reason why they would let YOU pass without being sinked or boarded.
4) Run an operation against sailors on the land where they are basically gimped because of their decision to maximize their sailing skill.

There is a lot of In Character options to deal with the problem, but people stick to the option of dealing with the problem in OOC way.

I believe that is very unhealthy approach that cripples the roleplay quality on the server. It is always easier to tone down competition, always easier to make people roll their dedicated character than dealing with the issue in IC way.

[The Rambling Midget]

So what is the problem with making the highest sailing score available to characters not built for such purpose.

No one is suggesting that. Stop.


What's been suggested is that the benefits from higher Sail averages be tempered after a certain threshold. In land based PvP, most decently built characters come out around a pretty narrow band of AB and AC values, and then have to make large sacrifices in order to squeeze out the last few points. This ensures that no one has too large an advantage, and everyone has a chance to participate meaningfully, if not necessarily win. That's a good thing, as it encourages engagement.

Sail benefit scaling is flat. The bonuses from having scores that are only achievable by sail focused characters are so massive that they make participation impossible for anyone who didn't plan to be a dedicated sailor at character creation. That's bad, as it discourages engagement.

Imagine if there was a racial choice that offered +3 AC and +3 AB, for example. Many would consider it the only option, and the rest would revolt and flame the forums. Smaller margins at the upper limits of combat power make for more interesting play, while still respecting the advantage of greater investments and sacrifices.

[pewpewx]

So what is the problem with making the highest sailing score available to characters not built for such purpose.

No one is suggesting that. Stop.


What's been suggested is that the benefits from higher Sail averages be tempered after a certain threshold. In land based PvP, most decently built characters come out around a pretty narrow band of AB and AC values, and then have to make large sacrifices in order to squeeze out the last few points. This ensures that no one has too large an advantage, and everyone has a chance to participate meaningfully, if not necessarily win. That's a good thing, as it encourages engagement.

So as for land pvp, there are groups of ambushers with high AB/stealth high numbers, 5% gear they spent their weeks/months into building. With stacks of scrolls, potions, IC connections and other features. There are character that you will be hunted for attacking for the rest of your playtime. Want to be competitive against those? Invest your time into working towards that.

Why I don't go to forums each time I get bested by a player with a better build, better UMD/Lore item setup. Why I dont' go to forums each time someone has a higher dweomer skill and can make much more gold than I do? Because these people have invested. And there ARE IC ways to deal with that. Like paying gathering your own group to battle them, or hiring a crafter to make you your armor.

Should be character who's only purpose to be a master sailor, who has built, geared and leveled his suboptimal build be on the same competitive level with a guy who doesn't take such disadvantages? No, absolutely no. It is very basic logic in my humble opinion. You shouldn't be able to compete with your multipurpose character against people who are built for a single purpose. That is same as asking to have same DCs as a Shadow Mage while being generalist.

And again you can always surrender, talk it out, offering something else instead of brute force, create more of RP opportunities etc.

[Distant Relation]

So what is the problem with making the highest sailing score available to characters not built for such purpose.

No one is suggesting that. Stop.


What's been suggested is that the benefits from higher Sail averages be tempered after a certain threshold. In land based PvP, most decently built characters come out around a pretty narrow band of AB and AC values, and then have to make large sacrifices in order to squeeze out the last few points. This ensures that no one has too large an advantage, and everyone has a chance to participate meaningfully, if not necessarily win. That's a good thing, as it encourages engagement.

Sail benefit scaling is flat. The bonuses from having scores that are only achievable by sail focused characters are so massive that they make participation impossible for anyone who didn't plan to be a dedicated sailor at character creation. That's bad, as it discourages engagement.

Imagine if there was a racial choice that offered +3 AC and +3 AB, for example. Many would consider it the only option, and the rest would revolt and flame the forums. Smaller margins at the upper limits of combat power make for more interesting play, while still respecting the advantage of greater investments and sacrifices.

It could be worse, friend.

Someone with maxed sail could cast scrolls of Ship Timestop. Imagine how unbalanced that would be.

[Rasha]

So what is the problem with making the highest sailing score available to characters not built for such purpose.

Sail benefit scaling is flat. The bonuses from having scores that are only achievable by sail focused characters are so massive that they make participation impossible for anyone who didn't plan to be a dedicated sailor at character creation. That's bad, as it discourages engagement.

Imagine if there was a racial choice that offered +3 AC and +3 AB, for example. Many would consider it the only option, and the rest would revolt and flame the forums. Smaller margins at the upper limits of combat power make for more interesting play, while still respecting the advantage of greater investments and sacrifices.

There are players that have characters that they don't want to roll or give up because their character has some grandfathered item or stat that is no longer available or in the loot matrix for new characters to acquire.

Imagine those older players with such characters being upset that newer characters get things they cannot have.

[pewpewx]

Someone with maxed sail could cast scrolls of Ship Timestop. Imagine how unbalanced that would be.

Could be even worse, every sailor could take Blackguard/Paladin levels for Divine Hull Shield or Divine Cannon Might.

[Tikin]

I find the question about should sail skill locked behind wisdom an interesting one, I wish players weren’t so radical about such a question. I have no absolute answer personally, but I can say for sure that the matter is worth thinking, and it goes beyond the only sail skill imho (but that’s for a different topic I guess ).
A lot of people way more knowledgeable than me already expressed very sensible things, so I will avoid going into the details of mechanics, but just add a few ideas that came to mind, hoping it helps to feed the genius brains of our beloved developers.

_ a class for sailing (navigator ?) that would better fit settlements environment than warlocks …

_ a writ system similar to the one of the Pirates for the settlements Navies. I imagine it would incentivize sail invested chars in settlements, and would then offer more opportunities to non-sailors to get on board with the dedicated crews and enjoy sea content with them.

_ Maybe to try to find better balance Loot/Crafting concerning ammunitions … I’ll speak only of Javelins, as I know way less about the rest, even if I suspect it is similar … Right now, the best you can have is Loot only … By far : Craft based : +3 top, Looted based : +4 & +5. And the +3 that a crafter can provide are found in such an abundant proportion with looting that I almost never experienced trading around the ammunitions recently. Of course taking things to the point where hard crafters would be mandatory to have a chance at PVP is not something players would enjoy. I think the right spot to look for is a point where crafted ammunitions won’t be necessary but will mean having a very slight advantage on long trips. Meaning in the present setting, the loot matrix concerning ammunitions should be lowered of one step : No +5, +4 shall have the actual +5 drop, +3 shall have the actual +4 drop rate and so on. OR, just make +4 craftable at high investment cost, maybe +5 too, at very high investment (because yes, if these ammunitions exist, it means someone crafted them, unless they were god-send, Idk xD … Btw, could be fun to have it so that a few dedicated chars only could turn +4 to +5, whether from their class –maybe commoner ?, or from their relation with a deity –I guess Umberlee, or other fitted ones … Just ideas …).

_ An option to "subdue" a boat in order to board it, as it has been suggested before, could be very nice I guess .

Thanks a lot for the time and work you invest in making Arelith a fantastic place!

[Zaphiel]

Sail benefit scaling is flat. The bonuses from having scores that are only achievable by sail focused characters are so massive that they make participation impossible for anyone who didn't plan to be a dedicated sailor at character creation. That's bad, as it discourages engagement.

How is this different than being a land character? If I need to compete in the land, I need to have high AC to not get stomped by two-hander STR builds that crits for 100+ in one swing. To prevent this to happen, I need to deeply invest into class
or just dip to a class which offers me a way to get high AC. I need to take Weapon Focus, Expertise, Blind Fight, Armor Skin, Epic Skill Focus: Discipline and many more. How this is different than what you just said: "The bonuses from having scores that are only achievable by sail focused characters are so massive that they make participation impossible for anyone who didn't plan to be a dedicated sailor at character creation." Without I am investing to these, I cannot compete with them. Then why we are not nerfing these characters as I can't compete with them with minimal investment?

[Distant Relation]

Hi there Good post!

Let me answer where I can.

_ a class for sailing (navigator ?) that would better fit settlements environment than warlocks …

I don't entirely disagree with this - Swashbucklers already make a really good sailor, both mechanically and thematically. Swash 26 / LM 4 is probably the best sailor around short of a hypermaxed caster cleric.

Also Commoners are sailors that can repair really well.

_ a writ system similar to the one of the Pirates for the settlements Navies. I imagine it would incentivize sail invested chars in settlements, and would then offer more opportunities to non-sailors to get on board with the dedicated crews and enjoy sea content with them.

We've been advocating for this as well. Sailing writs are a really good idea. The new Merchant Writs that Settlement Leaders can issue are a step forward, but I think there should be sailing writs that involve characters right from level 5ish, with content in local arelith waters.

I've actually written up a design doc about this that I was going to submit to AR, but I'm trying not to flood the man with more requests right now I can go at length in some other place. (suggestions forum when?)

_ Maybe to try to find better balance Loot/Crafting concerning ammunitions … I’ll speak only of Javelins, as I know way less about the rest, even if I suspect it is similar … Right now, the best you can have is Loot only … By far : Craft based : +3 top, Looted based : +4 & +5. And the +3 that a crafter can provide are found in such an abundant proportion with looting that I almost never experienced trading around the ammunitions recently. Of course taking things to the point where hard crafters would be mandatory to have a chance at PVP is not something players would enjoy. I think the right spot to look for is a point where crafted ammunitions won’t be necessary but will mean having a very slight advantage on long trips. Meaning in the present setting, the loot matrix concerning ammunitions should be lowered of one step : No +5, +4 shall have the actual +5 drop, +3 shall have the actual +4 drop rate and so on. OR, just make +4 craftable at high investment cost, maybe +5 too, at very high investment (because yes, if these ammunitions exist, it means someone crafted them, unless they were god-send, Idk xD … Btw, could be fun to have it so that a few dedicated chars only could turn +4 to +5, whether from their class –maybe commoner ?, or from their relation with a deity –I guess Umberlee, or other fitted ones … Just ideas …).

You're not wrong. +5 ammo is exceedingly powerful and is a problem. It used to be fairly common loot, but AR has nerfed the drop chance on it *massively*, and rightfully so.

+3 ammo is the gold standard that all organized navies and crews are using right now. +4s and +5s are being jealously held to their chests while stocks last, but they won't last for much longer.

Making +4 craftable is a good idea, but it would only shift the 'window' to +4 being the gold standard I think. This would have the side effect of making ship pvp shorter/deadlier on average, which would go contrary to a lot of the sentiment expressed here.

I probably would rather see +5 ammo be gone entirely and leave +4 to be the rare thing preciously held.

I'm fine either way though, good suggestion.

_ An option to "subdue" a boat in order to board it, as it has been suggested before, could be very nice I guess .

This is already how things work. By default. It's not even an option.

If you are engaged in pvp with another ship, and you strike a killing blow, you don't actually sink them right away, you put them in a disabled state.

While in the disabled state you can board freely.

To actually sink them you then need to fire again to confirm.

So yes, ship pvp works by Subdual as a default, with a coup de grace required to actually sink your opponent.

[FallenDabus]

_ An option to "subdue" a boat in order to board it, as it has been suggested before, could be very nice I guess .

This is already in. If you damage a player ship and drop it to 0 HP, it resets at 1 HP and any grapple attempt is an auto success. Only if you choose to fire upon it again do you sink it.

[FallenDabus]

I want to note that Distant Relation's posts have been incredibly spot on and are really worth reading and considering.

So what is the problem with making the highest sailing score available to characters not built for such purpose.

No one is suggesting that. Stop.


What's been suggested is that the benefits from higher Sail averages be tempered after a certain threshold. In land based PvP, most decently built characters come out around a pretty narrow band of AB and AC values, and then have to make large sacrifices in order to squeeze out the last few points. This ensures that no one has too large an advantage, and everyone has a chance to participate meaningfully, if not necessarily win. That's a good thing, as it encourages engagement.

(...)

Should be character who's only purpose to be a master sailor, who has built, geared and leveled his suboptimal build be on the same competitive level with a guy who doesn't take such disadvantages? No, absolutely no. It is very basic logic in my humble opinion. You shouldn't be able to compete with your multipurpose character against people who are built for a single purpose. (...)

There are two types of options for diminishing returns.

Option 1: Specific Sail Skill Treshhold

• +1AC +1AC per 5 sail average (up until 50 sail average)

• +1AC +0AB per 10 sail average (up until 100 sail average)

Example: Ship A (50) vs. Ship B (85)
Ship A gains +1AC +1AB up until 50 (every 5 sail)
Ship B gains +1AC +1AB up until 50 (every 5 sail)
Ship B gains +1AC +0AB up after 50 until 85 (every 10 sail)


Option 2: Comparative Sail Skill Treshhold

• A ship gains +1AC +1AB per 5 crew sail average.

• A ship gains +1AC +0AB per 10 crew sail average for anything above 20 sail score difference with another ship.

Example: Ship A (50) vs Ship B (85)
Ship A gains +1AC +1AB up until 50 (every 5 sail)
Ship B gains +1AC +1AB up until 70 (every 5 sail)
Ship B gains +1AC +0AB up after 70 until 85 (every 10 sail)


Personally, I would be strongly opposed to Option 1 while strongly in favour of Option 2.

Option 2 is inclusive and throws low sail crews a much-needed lifeline - while leaving sail intact for high sail crews competing with one another. It preserves high sail crews being able to compete on smaller ships with high sail crews on larger ships.

Option 1 feels like a heavy-handed attempt to reshape sailing and discourage high sail investment, but more importantly, weighs sailing heavily in favour of larger ships. This is where I strongly agree with pewpewx and others, and I feel like the suggestion is to reduce sailing to a highly accessible mini-game for those who want to remain fully optimized land-pvp-builds.

[The Rambling Midget]

Those are similar to what I'd envisioned, although I'd originally only imagined going from X/5 to X/10 after 60ish ranks. Very simplistic, just as a general idea.

Option 1 feels like a heavy-handed attempt to reshape sailing and discourage high sail investment, but more importantly, weighs sailing heavily in favour of larger ships.

I don't think either of your options would discourage high sail investment. In fact, it would encourage that investment in a different way, for sail focused characters, since anyone not totally invested would likely stop at the threshold of diminishing returns, leaving that upper space as a comfortable advantage for pure pirates/sailors. As we've seen in land based PvP, players will still go to extraordinary lengths to secure that one last point of AB, because it really does make a difference.

I do agree that the advantages of maneuverability and small size should be expressed in the system, so that smaller vessels can have their own niche, even if they make poor battleships.

[FallenDabus]

Maneuverability is expressed via ship traits. You can pull those up with the -ship command.

Smaller ships for instance tend to have the "Agile" trait, which gives them an additional +2ac -1ab when at full sails. They also tend to have the "Shallow Draft" trait which gives them +6 to hide if they are in a quadrant with land.

Smaller ships like the Penny Rose (forgot the trait name) also have a 50% damage reduction from bombard shots.

As for discouraging high sail? Given the reactions I have seen from players with high sail characters who run them so their crews do not get slapped around by the flagships day in and day out, yeah, I think it is pretty real.

[-XXX-]

High stealth stat too.