Arelith

Ive never heard the name and I'm sure as a whole we can come up with something far more suitable and without the word "suicide" in it. If the creator behind this takes offense, I'm sorry, but no. No making light of suicide.

LIAR LIAR wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:44 pm

No making light of suicide.

I get that it's a trigger word for some, but this isn't making light of it. It's discouraging the practice, and that really is the most appropriate word for it.

I also would support an alternative name. Ironically though, maybe intentionally, " suicides" is a term certain kind of sprinting cardio exercise.

So this is the phenomenon the post was explaining:

-You are an assassin
-You attack a well-defended target, probably in a public space, with the intent of bursting him down very fast and using the dagger on his corpse.
-The money goes to your account now, instead of your inventory.
-You die to everyone else there in what you knew all along was an unwinnable fight, but you know you'll respawn and still have the gold.

That is actually a suicide mission. It's not making light of it or turning it into a joke. That is just, by definition, what it is. To me it sounds like they're saying that behavior will be punished and wanted to give an advanced warning to take it seriously.

Can the people who do take issue with it come up with an alternative name that conveys this message as readily?

Or just make it so you have to report into the guild before dieing to collect the money.

Archnon wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:42 pm

Or just make it so you have to report into the guild before dieing to collect the money.

That is actually an incredibly cool idea.

DeepWebAssassin wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:38 pm

Can the people who do take issue with it come up with an alternative name that conveys this message as readily?

"Respawn exploiting"? I feel like it lacks the same implication of severity, but it explains the problem in a roundabout way.

DeepWebAssassin wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:42 pm

Archnon wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:42 pm

Or just make it so you have to report into the guild before dieing to collect the money.

That is actually an incredibly cool idea.

This seems like a great solution to a problem I hadn't thought existed before today.


As for the main topic, and I say this with all the empathy in the world for people suffering with mental illness especially these days, if simply seeing the word suicide triggers someone they need more help than they can get from a video game forum. I feel like this is a solution looking for a problem and creating even bigger problems while actually never addressing a very real issue. So while it would be easy to say "sure, lets change the name to something more pc" that's a never ending slippery slope that eventually leads to backlash against an issue that everyone should agree on. Or as the red fish faced admiral would say, "It's a trap!".

DeepWebAssassin wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:38 pm

So this is the phenomenon the post was explaining:

-You are an assassin
-You attack a well-defended target, probably in a public space, with the intent of bursting him down very fast and using the dagger on his corpse.
-The money goes to your account now, instead of your inventory.
-You die to everyone else there in what you knew all along was an unwinnable fight, but you know you'll respawn and still have the gold.

That is actually a suicide mission. It's not making light of it or turning it into a joke. That is just, by definition, what it is. To me it sounds like they're saying that behavior will be punished and wanted to give an advanced warning to take it seriously.

Can the people who do take issue with it come up with an alternative name that conveys this message as readily?

Thank you for context. I just saw the discord announcement and thought it referring to 0 RP speed runners.

I was honestly also confused, but now it all makes sense thanks to DeepWebAssassin.

DeepWebAssassin wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:38 pm

So this is the phenomenon the post was explaining:

-You are an assassin
-You attack a well-defended target, probably in a public space, with the intent of bursting him down very fast and using the dagger on his corpse.
-The money goes to your account now, instead of your inventory.
-You die to everyone else there in what you knew all along was an unwinnable fight, but you know you'll respawn and still have the gold.

That is actually a suicide mission. It's not making light of it or turning it into a joke. That is just, by definition, what it is. To me it sounds like they're saying that behavior will be punished and wanted to give an advanced warning to take it seriously.

Can the people who do take issue with it come up with an alternative name that conveys this message as readily?

Thanks for clarifying that out. I'm pretty sure, beside me are many players who never tried to play Assassin and looked at the update thread like ???

The name should stay. And honestly, maybe the gold should go to the Assassin's pocket? Why does it go to their bank account? What is this change supposed to accomplish except promoting suicide assassinations? There should be an additional step on the way to having this gold. Surviving with the gold in your pocket seems like the most reasonable step to add.

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:02 pm

As for the main topic, and I say this with all the empathy in the world for people suffering with mental illness especially these days, if simply seeing the word suicide triggers someone they need more help than they can get from a video game forum. I feel like this is a solution looking for a problem and creating even bigger problems while actually never addressing a very real issue. So while it would be easy to say "sure, lets change the name to something more pc" that's a never ending slippery slope that eventually leads to backlash against an issue that everyone should agree on. Or as the red fish faced admiral would say, "It's a trap!".

I really agree with this. I can easily see this going further with words like: Death, Slavery, Torture, Murder, Heresy etc etc etc, and that's, honestly, absurd.
All of Arelith is still a game, and should be understood as a game.

I think it’s just because some contracts end up getting really pricy, and it’s awkward to claim a kill and suddenly have 500k+ in your pockets that wasn’t there 2 seconds ago. And then if you DO somehow make a miscalculation and die right after, why does your killer (who may have just been some uninvolved witness) suddenly get all that blood money? I like the flavor of it being deposited into your account after the deed is done because that feels more assassin-y to me. Like some shadowy guild is always watching and making moves in the background while the action is happening.

I personally think that successful assassinations through the guild system are infrequent enough that if someone is engaging with the system in a poor or disruptive way, it’s going to be noticed pretty quickly. And if a player feels like someone just carelessly launched themselves at them to claim a bounty and die, it should be easy for the team to make a judgement on after talking to both parties and getting insight into the situation.

I'd kind of expect people that are so well and experienced roleplayers that they got through the DM approval for the class to behave better than to do "suicide runs".

DeepWebAssassin wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:32 am

I think it’s just because some contracts end up getting really pricy, and it’s awkward to claim a kill and suddenly have 500k+ in your pockets that wasn’t there 2 seconds ago. And then if you DO somehow make a miscalculation and die right after, why does your killer (who may have just been some uninvolved witness) suddenly get all that blood money? I like the flavor of it being deposited into your account after the deed is done because that feels more assassin-y to me. Like some shadowy guild is always watching and making moves in the background while the action is happening.

I havent thought about that. Again, because I never played an assassin. It's a good point. Where have 500k coins suddenly appear from. It would open a 'griefy' opportunity to go "this PC just claimed a bounty! they must have a bucketload of coin on them GET THEM!". So yeah, I agree with you. Maybe not directly to the assassin's pocket.

DeepWebAssassin wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:32 am

I personally think that successful assassinations through the guild system are infrequent enough that if someone is engaging with the system in a poor or disruptive way, it’s going to be noticed pretty quickly.

I dont think so. It may be noticed quickly by someone who played an assassin before, but I think the majority of players would just think "what a bizarre way to go. Maybe they wanted to roll really badly and make a dramatic exit" or something else that is not "this person just exploited the assassination system". But I speak mostly for myself in this one, I guess.

Let us please not go down this dark road of sanitizing the language of a pretend elf game to make it feel "safer", "more inclusive" and assuring that folks are not "triggered".

Edit: Last time I checked this is not even a PG13 server. sexy elven fun times is a an instantly bannable offense. Gore and torture roleplay is not allowed. Going into virtually any detail about how your half orc was probably conceived is a no no. Just how squeaky clean and inoffensive can it get? I mean there ARE My Little Pony video games...

DeepWebAssassin has the right of it.

As for the term, it has uses that when read in context are not meant to be derisive to mental health.

I worded it the way I did as a jest toward poor sportsmanship often seen in free looting games.
You down a tough/rare enemy amidst a crowd, a player runs up and takes the loot, runs off.
The prior version was technically the worse version of this scenario, where you get the item and they kill you for it from your now lootable body.

If you didn't get it, you probably wouldn't be the sort to do it. That was the humor I took from it when asked by no less than 5 separate people immediately.

Read it as you want, at the end of the day. We can't have a safe space from everything, then we would never grow as people.

Waldo52 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:41 pm

Let us please not go down this dark road of sanitizing the language of a pretend elf game to make it feel "safer", "more inclusive" and assuring that folks are not "triggered".

Edit: Last time I checked this is not even a PG13 server. sexy elven fun times is a an instantly bannable offense. Gore and torture roleplay is not allowed. Going into virtually any detail about how your half orc was probably conceived is a no no. Just how squeaky clean and inoffensive can it get? I mean there ARE My Little Pony video games...

+1

On the other hand though the name is a bit funky.

I super strongly agree we do not need to purge our vocabulary. If the word suicide is liable to send you into an episode then you need different help.

I am saying this as someone who has had family members who have been suicidal I even had a classmate who passed due to that. And? You gotta personally have the mental intelligence to acknowledge that the word exists and separate it from different situations.

This subject sorta gets to me because I am in college now and like writing and the creative process is so inhibited by trying to make everything like super mellow and to tackle subjects that are compelling while trying to also use a vocabulary that is so mundane and purposely restricted. I think it is an immense mistake to purposely strive to sensor everything with an inclination of bad or unpleasant thought.

We gotta live and learn to embrace those things and get over and past them. Not sensor ourselves into non-existance

Personally i think the fact that players have done this, to the degree that the DM's need to make an announcement about it, is a sign that the existing token application system needs work; If the system allows would-be assasins to game the system in a way like this, the process for approving/allowing quite possibly is not vetting players and tokens based on the right criteria.

upon re-reading the comment above, There is a good chance my comment will be perceived as player who is upset at getting a token denied taking a pot-shot at the DM team. It is not intended as such, but rather just feedback on the application system itself if these things are happening with -approved- assassins.
I'll freely admit that maybe my comment is biased because i've had 3 different assassin token requests knocked back over the years. But i can say with certainty i wouldn't do that gimmicky shit on an assassin - had i been approved for one.

Read it as you want? How about, use a word other than suicide?

This is not some nuanced freedom issue as people seem to think they're fighting for. It's not allowed to be roleplayed even. Arelith is, by the rules already, an environment where you do not bring suicide into the conversation.

Furthermore, people saying that if tossing around the word "suicide" is uncomfortable to people, they should seek help and not be interacting with a community of people is such a grand display of nonexistent empathy it does make me uncomfortable to be here. The depth to which this can be explained as wrong could fill pages.

Referring to someone seeking the staff to maintain their consistency on the topic of suicide as "sanitizing" is absolutely unreal.

If the name was made as a jest, it's time to change it. That's pretty distinctly where the problem begins when suicide is playing into comedy, then server rules that clash with the standard of Arelith on the matter.

godhand- wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:20 pm

Personally i think the fact that players have done this, to the degree that the DM's need to make an announcement about it, is a sign that the existing token application system needs work; If the system allows would-be assasins to game the system in a way like this, the process for approving/allowing quite possibly is not vetting players and tokens based on the right criteria.

upon re-reading the comment above, There is a good chance my comment will be perceived as player who is upset at getting a token denied taking a pot-shot at the DM team. It is not intended as such, but rather just feedback on the application system itself if these things are happening with -approved- assassins.
I'll freely admit that maybe my comment is biased because i've had 3 different assassin token requests knocked back over the years. But i can say with certainty i wouldn't do that gimmicky shit on an assassin - had i been approved for one.

That's the thing, though. Nobody has done this, ever. Until the update we're all talking about, the coins just appeared in your pocket. As far as I know there have been 0 assassin contracts filled in the 1 day or so since the update. It's not even possible for someone to have done this yet.

It looks to me like the team made a change, and someone saw that it opened the door for a potential abuse (even though the overall concept is a step up from the old one), and they wanted to get out ahead of it and fairly warn everyone that doing it would get them in trouble. That way, hopefully, the number of times this ever happens is encouraged to remain at 0.

I think this thread is just a little bit to PC for RP.

DeepWebAssassin wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:42 pm

Archnon wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:42 pm

Or just make it so you have to report into the guild before dieing to collect the money.

That is actually an incredibly cool idea.

I thought they sent the gold directly into the assassin's backpack, to encourage people to kill him, no?

LIAR LIAR wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:20 am

Read it as you want? How about, use a word other than suicide?

This is not some nuanced freedom issue as people seem to think they're fighting for. It's not allowed to be roleplayed even. Arelith is, by the rules already, an environment where you do not bring suicide into the conversation.

Furthermore, people saying that if tossing around the word "suicide" is uncomfortable to people, they should seek help and not be interacting with a community of people is such a grand display of nonexistent empathy it does make me uncomfortable to be here. The depth to which this can be explained as wrong could fill pages.

Referring to someone seeking the staff to maintain their consistency on the topic of suicide as "sanitizing" is absolutely unreal.

If the name was made as a jest, it's time to change it. That's pretty distinctly where the problem begins when suicide is playing into comedy, then server rules that clash with the standard of Arelith on the matter.

Torture is also not allowed to be roleplayed yet we can say the word, and allude to the act just fine.

As far as things to be outraged over goes, this is pretty close to the bottom. Which is about par for the course when it comes to internet outrage culture.