The Mundane Money Grind

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Ork
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Ork » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:37 am

Okay? Whats wrong with that. If adamantine is ultra valuable then it is also ultra susceptible to dev depreciation which current gold is not. If it becomes an issue, someone just needs to increase the % spawn rate.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by MischeviousMeerkat » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:40 am

Ork wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:37 am
Okay? Whats wrong with that. If adamantine is ultra valuable then it is also ultra susceptible to dev depreciation which current gold is not. If it becomes an issue, someone just needs to increase the % spawn rate.
sweet. please do so i can start 5%ing easily some of the gear thats up for crafitng.

id like mithril dust in every chest too while we're at it

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Ork » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:44 am

Some of yall have too much time on your hands playing this game, and it worries me. But, id start getting on that 5% craft asap. I'd almost bet that's going away soon.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Flower Power » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:08 am

I don't think that making the game needlessly more difficult is a particularly healthy design choice, especially for an aging title whose popularity and growth is almost entirely from word of mouth or existing players inviting their friends to give it a try these days. Nor is "just get a sponsorship!" - this usually just ends up boiling down into having your friends give your new characters a leg up, which happens pretty commonly enough already.

Nor will making gold just harder to get in general solve anything: like Ork said, there are characters/groups around that will never roll or vanish completely that have accumulated vast quantities of wealth that will never meaningfully be used up or vanish. No real design choice beyond encouraging these sorts of groups to go the way of the dodo to make room for fresh ideas will have any real impact on the server beyond just making life hard for literally everyone who isn't a 6+ year old character kept alive long past their prime and relevancy.

The ideal solution has already been suggested: adding more chestloot in the vein of the Girdle of Fortitude, which alleviates a marginal amount of the stress a mundane experiences without completely removing it (you'll still want backup endurance for dealing with dispels, etc., etc.) - tying these sorts of things to chestloot makes it so that the big pain drain of consumable consumption isn't easily 100% removed, while also not necessarily needlessly impacting the overall economy/flow of gold for the rest of the server. It also makes it feel rewarding to do the thing that the server design is ostensibly set up for: going out, doing shit, and telling fun stories - rather than feeling like you need to endlessly solo/duo-grind just to avoid going bankrupt off nursing your potion addiction.

tl;dr

healthy design choices are ones that reward players for doing fun stuff, not ones that make it needlessly difficult for everyone to do anything
Last edited by Flower Power on Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
what would fred rogers do?

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Arienette » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:09 am

I’m not doubting that there are faction accounts with 10 million gold.

But I do wonder who the helm they are! Settlement factions and guard factions typically do not have this kind of bank account.

I hate the idea of capping accounts to 1 million. Having a few million is just enough to equip a dedicated new hire with some left over or to band together with another group to bid on a castle.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by -XXX- » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:19 am

I'm really curious about the argument for capping the bank accounts that way.
What issues would it supposedly address?

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by MissEvelyn » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:20 am

Instead of capping the gold, why not introduce a wealth tax that begins at 1 million, and increases incrementally as your wealth gets higher.

With such a wealth tax, staters would become popular among the 1 percent wealthy, and those who can't be bothered would be paying tax to whatever nation they're a citizen of. Or to the void, if they're citizenship-less.

Factions would also pay wealth tax, but with no nation to get the money. This would heavily encourage using your private account first, to support one's nation.


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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Emotionaloverload » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:35 am

-XXX- wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:19 am
I'm really curious about the argument for capping the bank accounts that way.
What issues would it supposedly address?
As am I. I'd love to hear the answer.

I've rarely been in a faction that doesn't use its faction account religiously for rp. 1 million cap is simply not enough capital unless you are a faction of two. A faction should OOC come up with things to spend gold on even if its nefarious or gaudy. There is no sense in hoarding it.

I don't know if others have experienced this but spending gold on things that aren't materials/products IG is annoyingly hard. I have a character (and their faction) right now that has been trying for the last 4 RL months to pay people to take interviews and they just won't. To hire a bodyguard, you have to really hunt for candidates. For an assistant, an apprentice, a just about anything. And we're not even shooting high. We even tried to hire people to gather samples and it took RL weeks to just get one person. The people that you do get to help don't want your gold; they are in it for the cause.

I do like Irongron's idea that if you're not designed to make gold that you won't come away with it in spades from just adventuring because it will encourage taking jobs or merchanting.

Please take jobs. Please.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Arienette » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:41 am

MissEvelyn wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:20 am
Instead of capping the gold, why not introduce a wealth tax that begins at 1 million, and increases incrementally as your wealth gets higher.

With such a wealth tax, staters would become popular among the 1 percent wealthy, and those who can't be bothered would be paying tax to whatever nation they're a citizen of. Or to the void, if they're citizenship-less.

Factions would also pay wealth tax, but with no nation to get the money. This would heavily encourage using your private account first, to support one's nation.
I’m just going to say it. Nobody knows what Staters are. It came up in a forum thread a few days ago and among several 2-5 year veteran players I have spoken to OOC, nobody has any clue what a Stater is.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Ork » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 am

-XXX- wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:19 am
I'm really curious about the argument for capping the bank accounts that way.
What issues would it supposedly address?
The ability to price manipulate in the upwards of those millions as noted in my example around adamantine ingots.

Certainly you could still do it by having gold on you instead of in the bank, but thats a risk. Risks are good.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Arienette » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:51 am

Adamantium is rare because of the way the sever spawns adamantium ore nodes. Make certain places spawn adamantium all the time and the issue of adamantium prices disappears.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by MissEvelyn » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:56 am

Arienette wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:41 am
MissEvelyn wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:20 am
Instead of capping the gold, why not introduce a wealth tax that begins at 1 million, and increases incrementally as your wealth gets higher.

With such a wealth tax, staters would become popular among the 1 percent wealthy, and those who can't be bothered would be paying tax to whatever nation they're a citizen of. Or to the void, if they're citizenship-less.

Factions would also pay wealth tax, but with no nation to get the money. This would heavily encourage using your private account first, to support one's nation.
I’m just going to say it. Nobody knows what Staters are. It came up in a forum thread a few days ago and among several 2-5 year veteran players I have spoken to OOC, nobody has any clue what a Stater is.
It's readily available on the Wiki.


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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Arienette » Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:00 am

Thank!

I’d still bet my richest characters bank account that the majority of players have no idea that staters exist lol

I have never see it referenced in game ever, and never saw it OOC until earlier this week.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by godhand- » Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:20 am

Irongron wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:21 am
But design wise? I don't want gold to be easy, at all, unless a character builds for it. If you play a character with zero search and appraise, and who doesn't bother crafting, and just maraudes through dungeons quaffing consumables, the game isn't broken because you're bleeding gold.
Irongron wrote: unless a character builds for it
Unfortunately alot of people seem to forget that you can build for more than just EPIC PvE and PvP POWAH in this game.

Examples?
Quarterbreaker - effectively useless at PvE and PvP - has its niche and certainly a niche that triggers alot of people. (see recent changes)

Merchant Wizard - I have a merchant wizard, every possible feat for appraise and search you can take. - Wit the right gear i'm selling a single flameberry for a thousand gold.... He was over a million gold before hitting level 30. (yeah ok wizards dont need to spend money but i also was able to fully gear up the mundane buddy i partnered up with)

Merchant bard - An intelligence bard with all the right feats could probably net around 1.2-1.3k a flameberry, using henchmen hitting 30 will be ezmode.

Merchant wand/potion maker - Wizard/cleric + Paladin or ranger - With the right gear (all available in the game), you can get access to pretty much every possible wand and potion possible, and all wizard and or cleric scrolls (depending which is your primary class)

I'd like to see -MORE- niche non "power" builds around as well being made, but none of these seem to be publicly listed as they don't fit the common goal of being big strong fantasy hero/villain....

additionally, I think theres also an issue in game where people over-inflate the value of certain things - and often have no idea how to price stuff. I've seen 2 stat drop items being sold in shops for 10,000 + - for a simple +1str/con etc.
This is perfect beginner gear, flog it in your shop in cordor for 2000 and it will fly off the shelves.
This is just an example, but, it comes down to people trying to extort each other for an inGAME profit.

Run a temp stall - I took my wizard (see above) running through duergars, and with 100 lore, i was pulling at least 10-15 books of some value (language, grimoir, stream) per run.
I'd go to cordor, and sell them all for 2000 each. They were pretty much guarantted to dissapear from the shop in under an hour. - making me 20-30k ON TOP of scrolls&jewellery and other generic chest loot i sold to vendors.
Total duergar run value, close to 100k.

Fun fact, i saw the same books, Chronovidian time distortion grimoires etc in playershops for 150,000..... And i sold it for 2000.

A fast sale is a good sale, and gets you instant money. Better to sell mithdust for 80k and see it dissappear in 2 days (making space available for something else) than to put it in your shop for 140,000 (ultra common) and you see it in the shop for months, never moving.
Cortex wrote: Addendum, the immediate above post by godhand is wrong in about every aspect, as were most of his other posts.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by -XXX- » Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:26 am

Ork wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:46 am
The ability to price manipulate in the upwards of those millions as noted in my example around adamantine ingots.

Certainly you could still do it by having gold on you instead of in the bank, but thats a risk. Risks are good.
I'd thought that price manipulation used to be a thing and a problem for a long time, but recently I honestly came to believe that prices crash and rise mostly as a result of both the fickleness of RNG and general player activity, rather than some global market buyout conspiracy.
For example, if we look at adamantine specifically, IMO the rise in its price might be a result of Gnit becoming more challenging and players growing a little tired of the RDI.

Furthermore, I don't believe that capping the bank accounts would have had the effect that you are hoping. Players who can generate cash rapidly would simply invest it in ~anything~ that's valuable to relieve their bank account cap and continue generating more cash. It's pretty much what they are doing right now (which only feeds the conspiracy confirmation bias). The only diffenece is that they do it for fun rather than out of necessity.


Also, allow me to present an admittedly rather subjective opinion here:
There's this infatuation with keeping things fresh. However, expecting players who roll their characters every two weeks to be the source of fresh RP ideas might be somewhat naive. Grind grind, roll for an award, rinse repeat is not fresh.

The frustration with not being able to topple established, filthy rich factions over the course of a fresh character's two week lifespan is probably as aggravating as the frustration of faction leaders who are getting tired with players joining, taking what they need and rolling soon after.
There's no wonder that they are looking for other ways to play with their gold coins as the arguably most rewarding feature of possessing IG wealth - investing in new faction members - has become a much riskier and a much less feasable proposition due to an excessive increase of overal character turnover.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by La Villa Strangiato » Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:59 am

Tee bee aytch I don't really see what's wrong with factions having a lot of $$$? It's not like there's a finite amount of money in the game world. My original post was more about how it's often very frustrating to get money as a mundane, moreso than it is a caster. Despite my reservations with certain large, long-standing factions, I've never met a leader who wasn't at least willing to give some free resources in exchange for a noob's time.
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by AnselHoenheim » Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:34 am

It's funny that no one is talking about the next reason why appraise will be nerfed. Sailing.

Now, with the sailing update, there has been runs where the gold has been extremely profitable, even for a full crew, I've seen profits of 200k gold just by sinking NPC ships, even if keeping the high tier ammunition, which is too huge profit considering a normal character is getting four times less for a run, just because every dungeon that is not sailing related it's not even close enough to the amount of items you can sell for max appraise.

Meanwhile this is not changed, the economy will explode eventually, or even worse, the gold will be kept for just a reduced amount of people who has the privilege of owning a ship.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Irongron » Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:20 am

Flower Power wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:08 am
I don't think that making the game needlessly more difficult is a particularly healthy design choice, especially for an aging title whose popularity and growth is almost entirely from word of mouth or existing players inviting their friends to give it a try these days. Nor is "just get a sponsorship!" - this usually just ends up boiling down into having your friends give your new characters a leg up, which happens pretty commonly enough already.

Nor will making gold just harder to get in general solve anything...
I can only really disagree here (except for the OOC leg up from friend, which is a problem.)Having a challenging world economy is, to my mind, an essential part of the enjoyment here if we wish Arelith to continue to thrive, and I so not feel that because of NwN's age everything should be sacrificed for convenience.

It's likely about 8 years since I took over Arelith, a time when the entire server rarely passed 50 players, even before EE was launched, and with the requirement of a off-game critical download to play, we got them back up to mid hundreds by identifying and solving many existing problems, one of the worst being what was effectively infinite gold.

It was routinely stated that gold just didn't matter, and it didn't. The next years represented a full blown overhaul of the economy - loot was increased 10 fold, crafting expanded, and we introduced many rare components so that not everyone would just automatically be able to obtain and afford end game gear.

To make gold matter less? It would negate so many features and skills. While those building for raw strength and the grind may be happy, appraise and search would become trash skills, settlement economy management meaningless and trade with others a waste of time. Whether it is dengeoneering, gearing, gaining a house or building up a faction the game should be challenging, and for many, that challenge is itself fun, bringing with it a sense of accomplishment.

Right now the armour my own character wants is about 200k. I'm lazy about making gold and at level 16 have about 80 so far
To afford it I now need to make choices, forgoing other gear purchases, limiting my use of consumables and getting involved with IC factions and settlements. This isn't broken, it's perfect, and mad as it may sound to hear I'm personally proud that it is the case on Arelith.

Of course though, there are issues, and I think many ways to improve the economy. I'd like to have NPCs occasionally purchase low-mid end items sold in player shops when meaningfully priced, rewarding those running a fair minded shop, encouraging production of less optimal items and keeping demand reasonable.

I'd also like to have a new special UI NPC Auction shop where players can leave items, specify a bidding period and immediate sale price and leave them to be sold, defaulting to base price, at a maximum of around 1k at the end of the duration.

And more consumables would of course be good, but at risk of going round in circles it's worth stating that carpentry did have the ultimate consumable in the form of ammunition, before this was jettisoned in the name of convenience.

And with spellcasters summons simply remain too strong, one main reason why these characters don't need gold is they don't need to do any work while adventuring.

At its core, this issue comes down to the same conflict we see with levelling and area design; we have players that see almost everything standing in the way of a quick grind to achieve their optimal build and gear as as a bad design choice, preferring small areas and fast levelling and egalitarian gearing options, while resenting complex crafting, 'dead time' walking between shops and merchants and barriers to the economy or housing. On the other side we have players who feel the game is getting progressively much easier (which it really has been), find dungeoneering rather dull and prefer interacting with the other systems.

The above is a simplification of course, but what is a flaw to one player or developer may still very well be a feature to another.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by AnselHoenheim » Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:55 am

Sombricimos wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:43 am
AnselHoenheim wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:34 am
It's funny that no one is talking about the next reason why appraise will be nerfed. Sailing.

bla bla bla

Meanwhile this is not changed, the economy will explode eventually, or even worse, the gold will be kept for just a reduced amount of people who has the privilege of owning a ship.
Ah, yes.

It has been a while since the last attempt at blaming sailing for all of the troubles in the world. Jk, last one was maybe two days ago at best

200K.. Let's be fair and go with 300K divided by 6 people (where's rarely under the 8 ppl threshold on the second sister) is about 50k per player. For a whole 2 to 3 RL hour trip. So that's around 17k/ RL hour.
Said trip includes :
- ship repairing
- ammunition consumption
- potential PvP with all the activities happening recently
- Gathering a full crew. We don't go out when we feel like it, we actually plan events once or twice per week. 50k twice a week isn't that bad, I recall you specifically mentionning you would do sibayad runs in an hour and get.. maybe 30K or more worth of flameberries. Stop your hypocrisy.
- Upgrades of sails and hulls that weren't exactly free

FURTHERMORE 3/4 of Arelith's population, isn't supposed to sink a NPC ship (except NPC pirate/longships/undead ships) such as Cordor/Amn/merchant, which are known to be the most profitable ones alongside T3/T4 Undead galleons maybe.
And good luck sinking a T4 undead.
The people owning their own ship, at least the current ones, aren't known to be on the side of "evil" and would likely not sink the ships I just quoted.
And the players owning a pirate ship require a 4 man crew but let's be honest you won't sink an amnian ship with 4 ppl unless all of them have 85+ sail. Which, contrary to popular belief, not every single pirate PC was built to be a sailing demigod.


Finally, the weapons drop rates have already been lowered, the time when you board 3 cargo vessels in a row and grab all the +1 weaps has been over for a long time

Why don't you and all the other cry babies on the forum leave argumenting about sailing to those who actually engage in sailing content?
Unfortunately for you, I have engaged in sailing content enough to understand that the profit is getting out of the scales, you are already mentioning T3/T4 ships that are the most profitable, yes, these ones are gated only for a full crew with sailing, which requires a long amount of resources to spend to actually be able to get one.

However, you are forgetting to mention those of the T1 ships that are around there which actually have a tremendous amount of profit for just shooting a couple ballista and engaging with a few sailors, which are the ones who are extremely profitable due to not spending too much resources in defeating them.

And you don't even need a full crew to engage in those, aren't you?

Also, the issue of crews being on the side or evil or not, you are in this case particularly wrong, there's the UD and Sencliff which would happily engage in these kind of ships, just because your crew is not "E V I L" doesn't mean that content is out of reach to everybody, besides, this tend to shift, as well as the potential PvP activities as you mention before (You can simply dodge them if you want to, even at the costs of further repairs later on, abandoning the ship is always an option).

Because it's the content we enjoy, that doesn't mean we are going to wear a blindfold and forget that the economy affects everyone, sailors, or non-sailors alike.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Sombricimos » Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:36 am

, which requires a long amount of resources to spend to actually be able to get one.
Exactly, and time is money, which is why these should be profitable. It requires a fully/nearly fully upgraded ship, same for crew gear
However, you are forgetting to mention those of the T1 ships that are around there which actually have a tremendous amount of profit for just shooting a couple ballista and engaging with a few sailors, which are the ones who are extremely profitable due to not spending too much resources in defeating them.
The only ones like that I can think of are Pirate ships with the steel weapons and Cordor/Amn ships. Both of the latter are slightly more difficult to take on. Cargos have been gone for a bit, merchant vessels do not have a below deck area
I don't know about prisoner ships
And you don't even need a full crew to engage in those, aren't you?
You don't need a crew to fight a T4 amnian if you keep on rolling 20's and they keep on rolling 1's. Sure. Go ahead with that sort of logic. Provide numbers now, you're pushing an argument, now show me numbers to back it up. How many under-manned ships have been taking on these T1 ships? What are the economical consequences? Legit question, because I fail to see these consequences
Also, the issue of crews being on the side or evil or not, you are in this case particularly wrong, there's the UD and Sencliff which would happily engage in these kind of ships,
That more or less what I said :v except there's drawbacks for both of these
Just because your crew is not "E V I L" doesn't mean that content is out of reach to everybody
I'm pretty sure neither Cordor nor Guld nor any of the overly good arelith PCs should take on Cordor/Amn/Merchant vessels. Again, the most profitable ones.
The rest? Sure, go ahead, it's there for a reason
You can simply dodge them
This alone shows you haven't fully engaged in sailing content

It's fight or die these days, people pick up their weapons in between shots to maintain speed, micro-manage raising/lowering sail.

You can't "SIMPLY" dodge a PvP encounter. See Guldorand board with three letters counting sinking of sencliff/Andunor ships in the last 2 days

EDIT : This isn't the place to discuss Sailing content or mechanics and I'm sorry for being partly responsible for that slight topic drift.

EDIT 2 : Apparently cargos are still a thing and should probably be tweaked because thry are indeed easy for the reward they bring

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by FallenDabus » Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:13 pm

I agree with Ansel. Just to expand on it, sailing does differs significantly between low and high tier content. So lumping those two into one is likely why folks here report vastly difference experiences.

The big reason I think sailing is profitable is playstyle. You basically combine campfire rp banter with dungeon crawling. It has this nice switch from sailing and bantering, to doing a quick mini dungeon, then returning to sailing and bantering. If the same group spent the same time doing dungeons runs as it spent time on sea, the dungeon runs would be more profitable. Even if they did them at a leisurely, roleplay centric pace.

Personally, I do a lot more PvE content because sailing allows me to combine rp and dungeoneering. I am not a big fan of rp hunting on arelith, because from my experience I feel like I make it less enjoyable for others by slowing down the pace for banter. Hardly want to be the wet blanket during those expeditions. But I think this is why sailing works so well for those who do enjoy a greater roleplay focus when they play, and why sailors get rich. They do a lot of PvE content.

A big design benefit in terms of sailing IMO is that it is really unsuitable for solo-grinding.


Low Tier Sailing
If you sail just to make gold the low tier content can be incredibly profitable. You do not use a lot of ammo for it (certainly get more than you use), do not eat a lot of resources for repairs (certainly get more than you use), and traditional PvE wise you breeze through the spawns on the deck very quick. In addition, every charter (except the penny rose) can do that content pretty easily, and with a smaller crew you have a smaller split.

2 hour trip, likely around 300-400k or so, with each person getting 75-100k in profits if you doing it well. If you got high appraise on one character.

Small crew and lower sailing DCs also means you can do it very regularly without any effort of getting folks together. When our faction was on a crew 4 ship, it was so easy getting folks quickly together for an imrompto trip.

I think balance wise in terms of gold yield, this is the one to look at when it comes to sailing. Just surprising to me it is considered an issue in comparison to other options.


High Tier Sailing
With our sailing faction we are pretty much focused on high tier sail content for the fun aspect to it. I still do solo runs every now and again in order to spare the faction some of the prep work and cost. Our usual haul at 2 hours is between 250-300k. That is usually 30-40k once split, with perhaps one mithril dust or star sapphire being found that a character gains on top of their share. That is with a high search character, high lore character, high leadership character, and high appraise character.

I make more gold on a 30 minute dungeon trip with my bard character (non-runic run) than on a 120 minute voyage doing high tier content. Nor do I need to do a 30minute timber harvesting run, or dish out a lot amount of gold to have craftsfolk create ammo for me for those trips. Nor do I need to put in a lot of effort running a large, sail capable faction and put an effort into getting everyone together for a voyage.

I make even more gold doing 120minute epic dungeon runs with a wizard or cleric who's epic conduit I buff with bard song, than from 2 hours at sea. Takes next to no prep at all either.


Landlubber vs. Salty Sailor Comparison
In terms of gold returns, my druid character still made a -lot- more gold from solo runs than either of those two sailing scenarios. A character that did not have lore (for scroll drops), search (for item drops), leadership (for better bounties), or appraise (for better prices). If you want to to worry about folks getting filthy rich, from my experience having played one that very easily got to 10 million quickly, caster builds with summons definitely take the cake.

If I'd build a new character for making gold, I'd make a monolith druid or cleric with epic conduit / mummy dust and then retire on a treasure hoard.


Edit: Ship Types
Privateer, Pirate, Luskan and Slaver vessels are very pretty profitable from my experience. Think the issue for non-piratey factions who feel restricted in the available ships to board is not the types available but that they cut their encounter frequency between boardable ships to a third or so.
Natasha Dryby ~ Songstress of the Sea!
Shaelin Durothil ~ Divine Seeker of Sehanine (retired)
Yowyn ~ Svirfneblin Druidess (retired)

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-XXX-
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by -XXX- » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:11 pm

I don't think that 4-5 people strong crew making 250-300K per sailing trip would be a problem. As FallenDabus hinted, one can make more coin by simply soloing - it's all a matter of luck.

I'd also like to point out that the conduit summons have been rebalanced quite recently. They are still very powerful, but they've been tweaked to become much less tanky and therefore do require buffs in order to operate in endgame PvE environment. Undead summons have been in that spot for quite some time already and ancient elementals are simply too pillow-fisted to represent a viable tool for efficient grinding.
So yeah, while a caster class might not be needing to use wands and potions on themselves, they still often do need to use them on their summons instead.

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Ebonstar
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Ebonstar » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:48 pm

Arienette wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:41 am
MissEvelyn wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:20 am
Instead of capping the gold, why not introduce a wealth tax that begins at 1 million, and increases incrementally as your wealth gets higher.

With such a wealth tax, staters would become popular among the 1 percent wealthy, and those who can't be bothered would be paying tax to whatever nation they're a citizen of. Or to the void, if they're citizenship-less.

Factions would also pay wealth tax, but with no nation to get the money. This would heavily encourage using your private account first, to support one's nation.
I’m just going to say it. Nobody knows what Staters are. It came up in a forum thread a few days ago and among several 2-5 year veteran players I have spoken to OOC, nobody has any clue what a Stater is.
Ive always used staters as either a backup of 10-20k that take up no room in a pouch or for large hand to hand transactions acting as bank notes.
Yes I can sign

Exordius
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Exordius » Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:32 pm

Ancient elementals can work if your patient, for speed grinding though they are not optimal.

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-XXX-
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by -XXX- » Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:15 pm

Exordius wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:32 pm
Ancient elementals can work if your patient, for speed grinding though they are not optimal.
But even those you can't just throw unwarded at endgame PvE content and expect them to do anything.

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