The Mundane Money Grind

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Flower Power
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Flower Power » Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:27 am

MissEvelyn wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:53 am
Leadership being unnecessarily nerfed, I agree. There is actually no point to gearing up on it. If the devs were too concerned on how easy it was to enchant +2 Leadership, then get rid of it like with the Heal treatment. Let the special items that can be crafted or found keep their Leadership bonuses, but remove it from the basin.

But capping bounty gold is hurting those who invested a lot of points in Leadership tremendously. You can now have a Charisma of 4 (-3) and max out your leadership, and you will earn just as much as the Paladin with +12 in Charisma, maxed out Leadership, even geared for Leadership. For the purposes of bounties, Leadership is not an attractive choice anymore.

I think the saddest part about the nerf was really the cap. Nerfing the numbers, I'm sure there was good reason for it. But straight up capping it means it only requires the minimal investment of 1 skill point per level up, and in turn it punishes those who have taken any foci, gear, or those who have a high Charisma.

Leadership still works well outside of bounties, but if the devs are too concerned with one skill doing too much (*cough* Lore *cough*), decouple bounties from Leadership and give us a skill exclusively for that. Call "Bounty Hunting" or what have you, and it can have its own uses and boons. I know for a fact that I'd rather pick that over Leadership on 90% of my characters who have maxed out their Leadership skill.

Put simply, Leadership (Bounty Hunting) is a quality of life investment. Now that quality of life has been nerfed severely. Or as I famously like to put it, "nerfed to the ground" 😉
Just for clarity, the bonus money you got from bounty heads off Leadership has always only scaled off Hard Ranks - soft bonuses from gear, feats or Charisma mod has never had any impact on it, nor were the other benefits of Leadership changed in any way. You still get 100% of the benefit from having high CHA, from putting Leadership on gear or from taking skill foci that you did pre-nerf.
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by a shrouded figure » Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:38 pm

Heads were a bit out of control with leadership. They really needed to come down a bit. I will say that if you can take appraise, it’s worth it. Get your merchant rings, your gloves, and one of the new crowns. Obviously if you have a faction friend bard that helps too- but sticking to the basics can make you an incredible amount of in game wealth.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by MissEvelyn » Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:58 pm

Flower Power wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:27 am
MissEvelyn wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:53 am
Leadership being unnecessarily nerfed, I agree. There is actually no point to gearing up on it. If the devs were too concerned on how easy it was to enchant +2 Leadership, then get rid of it like with the Heal treatment. Let the special items that can be crafted or found keep their Leadership bonuses, but remove it from the basin.

But capping bounty gold is hurting those who invested a lot of points in Leadership tremendously. You can now have a Charisma of 4 (-3) and max out your leadership, and you will earn just as much as the Paladin with +12 in Charisma, maxed out Leadership, even geared for Leadership. For the purposes of bounties, Leadership is not an attractive choice anymore.

I think the saddest part about the nerf was really the cap. Nerfing the numbers, I'm sure there was good reason for it. But straight up capping it means it only requires the minimal investment of 1 skill point per level up, and in turn it punishes those who have taken any foci, gear, or those who have a high Charisma.

Leadership still works well outside of bounties, but if the devs are too concerned with one skill doing too much (*cough* Lore *cough*), decouple bounties from Leadership and give us a skill exclusively for that. Call "Bounty Hunting" or what have you, and it can have its own uses and boons. I know for a fact that I'd rather pick that over Leadership on 90% of my characters who have maxed out their Leadership skill.

Put simply, Leadership (Bounty Hunting) is a quality of life investment. Now that quality of life has been nerfed severely. Or as I famously like to put it, "nerfed to the ground" 😉
Just for clarity, the bonus money you got from bounty heads off Leadership has always only scaled off Hard Ranks - soft bonuses from gear, feats or Charisma mod has never had any impact on it, nor were the other benefits of Leadership changed in any way. You still get 100% of the benefit from having high CHA, from putting Leadership on gear or from taking skill foci that you did pre-nerf.
Fair enough. The change notes made it seem as though soft Leadership used to affect bounties.


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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Arienette » Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:46 pm

I’m not going to quote a bunch of things, but I agree with a lot of points here.

1. Casters save a lot of gold because they don’t have to buy things. However, making and selling wands is almost a community service rather than a money making enterprise. Magically created potions are even more so.

2. Turnover is absolutely ridiculous at the moment. I assume this has to be do with leveling speed as well as the massive mechanical balance changes. This has the effects pointed out by others in this thread. It should be NORMAL to play to 30 and then still have to actively adventure for IRL weeks/months to gather enough gold and resources to outfit your character properly.

These days I keep things on a “hey how are you” level of RP until a couple of weeks go by. If I still see the character semi-regularly, then I may go indict deeper RP.

Frequently though, I never see them again.

3. This also effects how factions assist mundanes in acquiring gear. I am playing a faction leader who is more than happy to enchant things at my own expense in the basin or provide wands free of charge. But I am currently only doing that for one or 2 characters because I strongly believe a large proportion of new recruits will be gone forever by the end of each month.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Slapstick » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:17 pm

I think the core problem can be summed up as thus: The casters can buff, the mundanes can't. The mundane can't reliably team up with them, so he buys their services via consumables. The casters have no need of mundanes, and little need of consumables as they can self-buff. And even if they did need a mundane, there would be no way for the mundane to deliver said services in the form of a flask/wand/whatever.

Is there any solution to this? Aside from "team up adventureres, it's D&D", not really. If one toned down summons enough that it wasn't a reliable meatshield, and allowed mundanes (or everyone really) to craft "hire me" potions that spawned an NPC henchmen with their exact stats and gear in -guard mode if they were not online, or created a -yoink command if they were online, then mundanes could reliably offer necessary services for good money.

That won't happen, but currently "paying for services rendered" only flows one way: caster -> mundane. Access to money from gathering and crafting is equally available to everyone.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by -XXX- » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:38 pm

Strongly agree with providing wands, scrolls and potions being more of a community service than actual source of income.
They're very easy and convenient to make, so the market pushed the markup prices on them very low. Players of mundane characters should be kissing the hands of anyone who's still doing that rather than complain about it.

Let's take haste potions for example. Creating 10 of them costs 4500gp. The current market price moves around 500gp per potion.
So anyone selling a stack of 100 ties 45K of their cash into assets that might be sitting in their shop and taking up space for RL weeks... and once they all sell, the merchant is at 5000gp income (minus tax ofc) - that's glorified lunch money.


Real money is still in runic components and rare crafting materials. While it's true that mundane characters require more maintenance in consumables than caster types, it's also true that mundane characters can grind much faster (and mine more adamantine per instance for example).

Also, some of the (especially newer) PvE content is so large and rich that it's virtually unfeasable for a vancian spellcaster to walk through it without the help of a mundane character - just so that we're clear on the "who doesn't need who" argument. It's little more than a "grass is greener on the other side" fallacy.
Last edited by -XXX- on Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Edens_Fall » Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:47 pm

Sense we are talking about the economy, I would like to touch on the sheer volume of shops Arelith has now. Compared to when I started it is super easy to get a shop if anyone is looking.

However, before owning a shop would make income a certainty. Now that is not the case as it seems most shops are stock with random clutter or the same thing as the one next to them.

If you own a shop take the time to review at least your local market to see what the prices are and what market niche isn't covered. Please don't just toss whatever into it. Customers will remember what shops stock well and return again. They will also remember what shop don’t and avoid them.

If your unable to properly stock a shop then release it. Thier is no need to horde shop ownership anymore. Those days are long past thanks to the many awesome updates and bid system we use now.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:06 pm

Edens_Fall wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:47 pm
Sense we are talking about the economy, I would like to touch on the sheer volume of shops Arelith has now. Compared to when I started it is super easy to get a shop if anyone is looking.

However, before owning a shop would make income a certainty. Now that is not the case as it seems most shops are stock with random clutter or the same thing as the one next to them.

If you own a shop take the time to review at least your local market to see what the prices are and what market niche isn't covered. Please don't just toss whatever into it. Customers will remember what shops stock well and return again. They will also remember what shop don’t and avoid them.

If your unable to properly stock a shop then release it. Thier is no need to horde shop ownership anymore. Those days are long past thanks to the many awesome updates and bid system we use now.
I most often buy from random junk shops to avoid 2 stat enchanting my own equipment while leveling up lol.

But yeah shops could be better used overall and I am not sure what advicw to give other than encouraging people to work with others if they cant stock it half decently beyond my random 1l2 stat jewelry buy

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by -XXX- » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:20 pm

One very big factor to also consider is the STR attribute.

A STR-based character can afford to collect and peddle off ALL the loot from the dungeon crawl.
A STR 8 wizard will inevitably end up leaving a lot of money on the table during adventuring.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by garrbear758 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:01 pm

I think this mostly comes down to a gearing and a summon issue more than anything. Casters can run around naked and be fine just with their summons and spells.

I'm currently leveling a brycerish build and got him to 28 so far. To be able to solo or even tank for a small group reliably, I need to use:
Always on: Barkskin wand, PfA wand (x2), about 8 casts of zoos for str, con, cats, and cha, shadow conj mage armor, imp invis, shield pots/scrolls
Situational: Death ward, freedom, nep, haste, clarity,
protection from elements / stoneskin / ghostly (for any dungeon with breaches and a need for nep or freedom)

With the cost of wands and varying charges, this puts me several thousand gold in the hole just for starting a dungeon. This is without mentioning any healing supplies, resto, etc.

I can do a dungeon with a group of 3-5 people as a mundane and lose money.

Speaking solely as a player here, and not in any way saying we are doing this, I think the best solution to fix this without affecting balance would be adding more craftable items like ioun stones with casts per day for common buffs rather than forcing mundanes to be reliant on the caster economy.
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Arienette » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:06 pm

Edens_Fall wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:47 pm
Sense we are talking about the economy, I would like to touch on the sheer volume of shops Arelith has now. Compared to when I started it is super easy to get a shop if anyone is looking.

However, before owning a shop would make income a certainty. Now that is not the case as it seems most shops are stock with random clutter or the same thing as the one next to them.

If you own a shop take the time to review at least your local market to see what the prices are and what market niche isn't covered. Please don't just toss whatever into it. Customers will remember what shops stock well and return again. They will also remember what shop don’t and avoid them.

If your unable to properly stock a shop then release it. Thier is no need to horde shop ownership anymore. Those days are long past thanks to the many awesome updates and bid system we use now.
The number of shops has certainly increased which is great. But a lot of the newer shops are in poor locations that make them very difficult to make money with.

I have run plenty of shops over the years and also partnered with shop owners. I know how to stock a shop and make money.

I currently play a character who owns a shop in Bad Location and has a deal with a shop owner in a Good Location. I stock a handful of key items in the Good Shop and I stock the whole array or useful crafted goods in my Bad Shop. That handful of goods routinely sells out in a week at the Good shop.

Meanwhile, in my Bad Shop, I sell the same goods plus a lot more items at prices 10-20 percent LOWER than what is in the Good Shop. My shop is full of 30 coherent and reliably available items. Even with the lower prices, I’m lucky to sell one single item per IRL week. This has been the case for 2 months. This is the case even with passive and active advertising (Hey did you know i have a shop? Let me take you there and show you).

Aside from just slamming all the shops into key marketplaces, I dont see any way around this.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Aradin » Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:38 pm

Arienette wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:06 pm
Aside from just slamming all the shops into key marketplaces, I don't see any way around this.
This is a notion I strongly agree with. To use Andunor as an example, if I want to visit every shop in the city I have to go to:
1) The Hub (downstairs)
2) The Hub (upstairs)
3) The Hub (private shop accessible via the West Wheel)
4) The Hub (Boreal Keep)
5) Spider's Web Bar
6) Devil's Table Market
7) Devil's Table Colosseum
8) Sharps Market
9) Sharps District House
10) Shipyard
11) Treadstone
12) Greyport Ferry Area
13) Greyport Market & outside Red Tower
14) Greyport District House
15) Greyport Shop Building 1
16) Greyport Shop Building 2
17) Spore Farms
18) Silver Mines

18 areas in one city! That's bananas. And that's not mentioning the Zurkhwood Grove, Saltspar, or the Underdark Trade Post. For the surface it's even worse because you have reasonable access to the shops of most surface settlements, so if you want to go on a true shop hunt you're spending hours just walking through transitions. It's a boring thing to do, but if you're playing a cash-strapped character who needs to find the best deals on consumables and gear for their next dungeon run, it can be necessary.

On the one hand I think it's thematic and dynamic that there are so many different shops in varying locations of traffic. I think having some shops in better areas and some shops in worse areas is a good thing; some shops should be more valuable based on their locations. But the degree to which this is taken is an absolute inconvenience as a shopper. I think the mundane money grind would be made easier and Arelith's player economy would improve if we had some centralization of the markets.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Nintendo Entertainment System » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:15 pm

A few thoughts on the economy:

Gold is tight for new characters, especially those characters that can't buff themselves or rely on summons. Currently, it's an odd situation where adventuring costs money for a lot of characters, leading to necessary busywork like collecting berries and doing head-hunting routes.
  • I suggest adjusting gold drops upward (which would also make hiring a henchman more impactful, possibly allowing for stronger henchman) and increasing Writ gold payouts.
The rune economy favors useful lesser runes that can be made without an abeyant template, and masterwork runes that are always in demand for end-game gear. If you look at shops, there are stacks and stacks of greater rune materials that go unused because euklian clay is precious.
  • I suggest: 1) Euklian Clay produces 2 Abeyant Templates and 2) Greater Runes require 1 Template while Masterwork Runes require 2 Templates. This would make mid-tier runecrafting more affordable for everyone.
Lengthen the duration of commonly relied-upon buffs. The concealment part of improved invisibility was mentioned, and it'd be nice if Displacement lasted more than a few rounds. One possibility are more herbalism / alchemy potions that have higher CL and therefore longer duration buffs. (reasonable recipes - no giant bone collection, please). You can also shower some consumable love on Forging and Carpentry by giving them stuff like metal polishes and wood varnishes that offer more affordable GMWs and other weapon buffs.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by MissEvelyn » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:26 pm

Would it help if we got more / better henchman to hire with Leadership? I know it's a hot topic skill being discussed at the moment (guilty 😇), but imagine if a good number of the henchman were casters and they were *actually* useful. Like maybe they could provide buffs?


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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Edens_Fall » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:47 pm

Aradin wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:38 pm
Arienette wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:06 pm
Aside from just slamming all the shops into key marketplaces, I don't see any way around this.
This is a notion I strongly agree with. To use Andunor as an example, if I want to visit every shop in the city I have to go to:
1) The Hub (downstairs)
2) The Hub (upstairs)
3) The Hub (private shop accessible via the West Wheel)
4) The Hub (Boreal Keep)
5) Spider's Web Bar
6) Devil's Table Market
7) Devil's Table Colosseum
8) Sharps Market
9) Sharps District House
10) Shipyard
11) Treadstone
12) Greyport Ferry Area
13) Greyport Market & outside Red Tower
14) Greyport District House
15) Greyport Shop Building 1
16) Greyport Shop Building 2
17) Spore Farms
18) Silver Mines

18 areas in one city! That's bananas. And that's not mentioning the Zurkhwood Grove, Saltspar, or the Underdark Trade Post. For the surface it's even worse because you have reasonable access to the shops of most surface settlements, so if you want to go on a true shop hunt you're spending hours just walking through transitions. It's a boring thing to do, but if you're playing a cash-strapped character who needs to find the best deals on consumables and gear for their next dungeon run, it can be necessary.

On the one hand I think it's thematic and dynamic that there are so many different shops in varying locations of traffic. I think having some shops in better areas and some shops in worse areas is a good thing; some shops should be more valuable based on their locations. But the degree to which this is taken is an absolute inconvenience as a shopper. I think the mundane money grind would be made easier and Arelith's player economy would improve if we had some centralization of the markets.

How cool would it be to have an Arelith version of Waukeen's Promenade.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Eyeliner » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:18 pm

Area transitions just seem to be getting longer and longer, up to 30 sec to a full minute some times. That really kills my enthusiasm for hitting every shop especially when you have a district like Greyport where most are single shops inside quarters.

Making centralized outdoor markets the norm would be fantastic and a lot more social.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Flower Power » Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:12 pm

Eyeliner wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:18 pm
Area transitions just seem to be getting longer and longer, up to 30 sec to a full minute some times. That really kills my enthusiasm for hitting every shop especially when you have a district like Greyport where most are single shops inside quarters.
The transition cooldown timer doesn't help at all, either.

Take the 7 shops in Cordor's outskirts, for example - 4 of them are locked up inside of quarter-shops in their own separate area. I almost never visit the four big fancy shops-with-a-house-attached-to-them anymore and only ever glance at the 3 external ones, because I'm stuck waiting for a transition cooldown to pop so I can enter the next shop to look at it.

Is it just a small waiting period? Sure. But it's still an inconvenience that's very overtly rubbed in my face, and I've got other things to do, so they get skipped.

A lot of shops are suffering because they're put in really shit locations, or are now gated behind design choices (long loading times due to the shift towards MASSIVE areas, transition cooldown, etc.) that make them less convenient to visit.

Meanwhile, conversely, I got a shop in a good location at level 4 on my latest character and have moved over 300,000 gold in product before I've even hit mid-teens. Location matters.
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by AstralUniverse » Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:56 pm

garrbear758 wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:01 pm
I think this mostly comes down to a gearing and a summon issue more than anything. Casters can run around naked and be fine just with their summons and spells.

I'm currently leveling a brycerish build and got him to 28 so far. To be able to solo or even tank for a small group reliably, I need to use:
Always on: Barkskin wand, PfA wand (x2), about 8 casts of zoos for str, con, cats, and cha, shadow conj mage armor, imp invis, shield pots/scrolls
Situational: Death ward, freedom, nep, haste, clarity,
protection from elements / stoneskin / ghostly (for any dungeon with breaches and a need for nep or freedom)

With the cost of wands and varying charges, this puts me several thousand gold in the hole just for starting a dungeon. This is without mentioning any healing supplies, resto, etc.

I can do a dungeon with a group of 3-5 people as a mundane and lose money.

Speaking solely as a player here, and not in any way saying we are doing this, I think the best solution to fix this without affecting balance would be adding more craftable items like ioun stones with casts per day for common buffs rather than forcing mundanes to be reliant on the caster economy.
I love the summery and +1 on the suggestion. I think, even more stuff in the loot like Gridle of Fortitude which give uses/day of zoo buffs could be nice.
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Irongron » Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:21 am

As stated above the time change was already a big buff to mundanes, and RP can supply a lot more.

But design wise? I don't want gold to be easy, at all, unless a character builds for it. If you play a character with zero search and appraise, and who doesn't bother crafting, and just maraudes through dungeons quaffing consumables, the game isn't broken because you're bleeding gold.

If any change was to be made to this, it would be on the other side; to make coin matter more for those that need it less. While I very much understand that the very suggestion must sound like a living hell who consider the whole economic side of managing a character a dreadful minigame that they'd rather just bypass, it should not be optional. If you're not built for making money, find someone that is to sponsor you. If I try to make money in game I never have any trouble at all, and there is just so much gold out there.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Ork » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:20 am

While we have faction bank accounts in the tens of millions and characters as old as time holding infinite wealth, we will never see item sales depreciate especially when we keep adding items to the game that cost more and more materials tethered to rng.

For example, the moment a store is willing to sell adamatine at a reasonable rate (should be 20k, but 50k is reasonable right now), they're bought out of stock by individuals selling adamantine for 100k an ingot.

Removing faction bank accounts would be nice. It would mean those individuals with exorbitant wealth would be more incentivized into sponsoring more people without hording wealth in their 12 various factions accounts.

Lowering the cap on banks would also help. 1 million is enough.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by 98lbs of sad carryweight » Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:48 am

Ork wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:20 am
While we have faction bank accounts in the tens of millions and characters as old as time holding infinite wealth, we will never see item sales depreciate especially when we keep adding items to the game that cost more and more materials tethered to rng.

For example, the moment a store is willing to sell adamatine at a reasonable rate (should be 20k, but 50k is reasonable right now), they're bought out of stock by individuals selling adamantine for 100k an ingot.

Removing faction bank accounts would be nice. It would mean those individuals with exorbitant wealth would be more incentivized into sponsoring more people without hording wealth in their 12 various factions accounts.

Lowering the cap on banks would also help. 1 million is enough.
No.

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Irongron wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:21 am
As stated above the time change was already a big buff to mundanes, and RP can supply a lot more.

But design wise? I don't want gold to be easy, at all, unless a character builds for it. If you play a character with zero search and appraise, and who doesn't bother crafting, and just maraudes through dungeons quaffing consumables, the game isn't broken because you're bleeding gold.

If any change was to be made to this, it would be on the other side; to make coin matter more for those that need it less. While I very much understand that the very suggestion must sound like a living hell who consider the whole economic side of managing a character a dreadful minigame that they'd rather just bypass, it should not be optional. If you're not built for making money, find someone that is to sponsor you. If I try to make money in game I never have any trouble at all, and there is just so much gold out there.
Probably would help if writs would pay a little more given the slightly higher speed we level at now.

I'd like to see leadership slightly upped again by 15%, maybe 20% so people dont run negatives from just doing content while also crafting their gear and selling everything. Going solo is more profitable because you dont need to split the gear, thus your money, while still having to use more or less the same amount of consumeables even if you rush it, preferably you RP as a group too though.
The time change made mundies a lot more enjoyable consumeable wise which was great.

Garr made a good point with the consumables.

Anyone who doesnt think that wands/potions dont make money plays kinda shortterm - and its not like Craft Wand/Potion block you from ALSO doing a crafting skill. Your mage can also craft ontop of this, if you take either art or herbalism you can just login for 5 minutes in the morning and generate your gazillion spellcomponents at 0 cost.

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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:13 am

One million's not enough. Five or ten, sure. It gives some gold to do stuff with. When I use gold, I usually go through a LOT of it at once, and use it to try and get RP going or spending it to help others. I agree faction accounts could go, it's a way for wealthy people to hoard huge amounts of cash. I'm not sure if faction accounts get used for their intended purpose. Usually when I'm in a faction we don't use the system, we pool resources in other ways. I'm not sure how to go about dealing with the issue of people buying up crafting materials to sell at a higher rate. I've heard people argue that's just how economies work and try to brush it under the rug. But really it just means people go and farm their own addy for crafting rather than buying it. I sure don't buy it when it's hyper-inflated.

Ultimately though, I don't think ultra rich people impact the low level experience too much. The real issue is not all crafts are equal in terms of being able to make money while leveling. Carpentry in particular could use some help, it makes furniture (which people only want to-order), or high end stuff that take rare materials.

I think it'd help if some crafts other than alchemy, art, and herbalism got more consumables. Like in my previous example of a mystical wooden bull figure that would cast bull's strength, have them be carpentry craftable at dc15-20 and take rare hardwood or rare softwood and a gemstone like topaz. It would let lower levels be able to craft something they can use, and also something they can sell to other people.

Eyeliner
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Eyeliner » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:14 am

Something that might go a long way towards making income could be extending how long short-term shop rentals last. It seems rarely effective to rent one for an hour as that's too short a time to get many customers and it's too short to either do something else IG or log and come back. If you could rent for 6 or even 24 hours that might help a lot of characters who can't find or don't want a permanent shop.

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Ork
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Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by Ork » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:24 am

98lbs of sad carryweight wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:48 am

No.

Punishes working together and encourages needless sketchy.
How?

MischeviousMeerkat
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:45 am

Re: The Mundane Money Grind

Post by MischeviousMeerkat » Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:34 am

Ork wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:24 am
98lbs of sad carryweight wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:48 am

No.

Punishes working together and encourages needless sketchy.
How?
adamantine could become the new currency and make it even worse.

it stacks up to 100, could easily be bought up, and it could easily be agreed upon that its ultra valuable now

the best part?

store it in your private citizen storage and it never gets stolen

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