Cleric Domain/Path Feedback Thread

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Good Character
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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Good Character » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:03 pm

A few questions:
1. How will metamagic-ed spells be affected when it comes to the replenishment effect offered by divine power? Will the replenishment rate be affected by the base spell circle or the new spell circle that metamagic spell is in?

2. With the Warpriest path, will having Weapon Specialization allow clerics to eventually pick Epic Weapon Specialization in the same vain that Spellswords can pick Auto Still Spell 3 if they went the Abjuration Champion path?

3. Does divine smite regenerate in similar fashion to paladins? Will it regenerate if the cleric does not have the Good or Evil domain?

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by RedGiant » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:23 pm

As discussed in other threads, is there a mechanism for old healer path clerics to divest themselves of the path when this goes live?
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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:37 pm

Do we have to choose a path? Is path of the cleric an un-pathed base cleric, and we can sit on that if we want? Will choosing a path be done through feats like is being done with other classes? And if not, will there be a way for us to change paths or are we hard locked into it?

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Bazelgeuse » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:25 pm

RedGiant wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:23 pm
As discussed in other threads, is there a mechanism for old healer path clerics to divest themselves of the path when this goes live?
Came here to ask this, but it seems I've already been beaten to it ;) I'd like to know the answer to this question too!

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Kenji » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:27 pm

Good Character wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:03 pm
A few questions:
1. How will metamagic-ed spells be affected when it comes to the replenishment effect offered by divine power? Will the replenishment rate be affected by the base spell circle or the new spell circle that metamagic spell is in?

2. With the Warpriest path, will having Weapon Specialization allow clerics to eventually pick Epic Weapon Specialization in the same vain that Spellswords can pick Auto Still Spell 3 if they went the Abjuration Champion path?

3. Does divine smite regenerate in similar fashion to paladins? Will it regenerate if the cleric does not have the Good or Evil domain?
Meta magic will lower the refund chance by a proportional amount of levels increased.

Warpriest will still need to dip into Fighter or Divine Champion in the epic levels in order to obtain Epic Weapon Specialization

Any character that has the divine smite feat will always passively regain the charge regardless of paladin levels or not.
RedGiant wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:23 pm
As discussed in other threads, is there a mechanism for old healer path clerics to divest themselves of the path when this goes live?
They will all automatically lose the old healer path and can retake the path again in the form of feats at the 2nd level of cleric. All healers should also have their original proficiencies refunded.
Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:37 pm
Do we have to choose a path? Is path of the cleric an un-pathed base cleric, and we can sit on that if we want? Will choosing a path be done through feats like is being done with other classes? And if not, will there be a way for us to change paths or are we hard locked into it?
Technically yes, all clerics will have to choose a path. Path of the Cleric is the vanilla cleric experience that is part of the choice, as well. Choosing one path doesn't lock the cleric into a certain path anymore. This is to facilitate character growth and perhaps concept changes over time.

To quote Merry/Mythic:
... old warpriest laying down his arms and converting to a way of healing and peace.
This is to facilitate more RP possibilities. Of course, if we observe plenty of -relevel swapping shenanigans, the choices will be hard-locked should enough abuse occur. Path tokens will then be issued through DMs if that were the case.

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Exordius » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:54 pm

My cleric is still linked to the old healer path and has not had its armor feats refunded?

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Skarain » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:04 pm

For Evangelist, 1/3 of Cleric counts for Bard Song.

Do you still need +5 Bard levels to unlock the large list of Unique Bard Songs, or does that also unlock with only a... say, 27 cleric/3 bard dip?

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Kenji » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:10 pm

Exordius wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:54 pm
My cleric is still linked to the old healer path and has not had its armor feats refunded?
It's not live yet, it is a preview. It'll go live in maybe a few days or a week or a month. The changes are ready, just pending administration review and server update.
Skarain wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:04 pm
For Evangelist, 1/3 of Cleric counts for Bard Song.

Do you still need +5 Bard levels to unlock the large list of Unique Bard Songs, or does that also unlock with only a... say, 27 cleric/3 bard dip?
Maybe, I'm not sure.

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by MissEvelyn » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:58 pm

Bundling up my questions into one post =)
Favored Soul wrote:Special: Favored Souls do not benefit from Cleric domain abilities.
- Will this limitation still apply when multi-classing a Cleric path with FS?

- Will Domain change tokens be given to those who made Healers after the domains update but before the Healer/Path changes?

- Are Charisma-based pure Clerics going to get a cookie as promised, or are these changes the final stage of the Cleric?

- Will the Overheal numbers stack on a Cleric with both the Healing and Suffering domains? And does it still work with non-Healer Clerics who have one or both of the aforementioned domain?

- And finally, the elephant in the room, why was Overheal nerfed so much?


Edit: Typos and structure.
Last edited by MissEvelyn on Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:23 am, edited 3 times in total.


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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Kalthariam » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:21 pm

So I just have a few questions:

Are healing path clerics losing the ability to wield shields? I see shields listed in other paths, but not in healing. Does that mean if we want a dwemored offhand we have to be effectively dual wield weapons? (I just really don't like off hand daggers or whatever)

I saw people posting in the discord that healing path clerics wouldn't be able to utilize things like the staff of life anymore, that feels kind of odd to me personally, specifically because the staff of life seemed quite literally designed for Healer Clerics, and magic staves aren't really a "Weapon" so to speak. So I'm not sure why we wouldn't be able to continue to use them, and replacing a staff with a weapon also just feels weird aesthetically because.. I'm a healer path cleric, why would I walk around dual wielding weapons?

Are healing path clerics losing the based empowered healing that taking the healing path originally provided?

Further I am a little concerned about the viability of being able to utilize the Divine Favor and Divine Power buffs on a healing path cleric. Divine Favor only lasts a single turn, unless you burn a 2nd level spell slot to extend it to 2 turns, so it feels like you really won't be able to benefit very much at all from maximizing your level 1-4 healing spells, and it has no effect on the bigger healing spells.

Also outside of maybe PvP I do not see too many instances in which absolutely spamming Heal and Mass heal would be necessary enough to benefit from the rather low chance of getting spell slots back from Divine Power.

Not to mention I just really generally do not have the spell slots available to slot in multiple uses of Divine favor or divine power. They occupy slots that are often completely filled with multitudes of buffing spells for my party, and since I cannot fight, buffs and healing are really all I can do for a party. This can be sort of remedied by wands, but then your divine power lasts 7 turns, and divine favor is still 1 turn, but you spend your entire first turn casting from the wand.

I just don't see myself managing to get a whole lot of utility out of either of these changes, overall random chance renewal of spells just feels gimmicky to me.

Those are just my initial thoughts when I'm looking over the announcements, and I figured I'd post my feedback on it.

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Mattamue » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:38 pm

Loving the flavor and options so far.

If a cloister cleric were to cast divine power while already under the effects of divine power, would it have the replenish chance?

Who is the audience for this post?


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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by TooManyPotatoes » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:48 pm

I'd just like to say that while I haven't played a cleric in some time now, I really appreciate seeing them get extended duration on their more vital combat spells (warpriest), or straight up replenishment of spells (Cloistered). This has previously been one of my main frustrations with the class, especially with areas like the Deep Wells having almost no rest areas.

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Stop. Ninja Time » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:57 pm

First off: Love the paths!

Feedback:
1. The refund seems really lacklustre as it currently is. You have to cast a short length spell to get ONLY domain spells back and ONLY a small percentage of them. I can't see ever using this on a cleric except maybe against a boss where you want to spam a few extra spells. A lot of the spells you'd want a refund on are buff spells which you wouldn't get to because you're not likely to cast divine power while buffing only to have it wear off.

Amusingly this makes the refund much stronger on favoured souls because they already have a limited selection of spells, they can focus much more heavily on those domain spells and have more castings of divine power in order to get the refunds more often.

It'd be nicer if the refund was either A) always possible, just make divine power do nothing; or B) make it affect _all_ spells cast, so it's not just a few spells. Maybe for A) it could refund all the time when cast on yourself, but only with divine power when cast on others.

For healers that aren't healing domain, this is even less helpful because it'd be strange for a healer with the ability to spont cast all healing spells to then waste spots on those same healing spells; only in healing domain is it worth it. And the refund doesn't work on spont cast spells it looks like?

2. Healer Path: "Healing and Suffering domains overheal up to 60hp" - isn't this already what they get?

3. Healer path gets no staves? But the current staves are really cool and thematic- being able to regenerate or heal, being able to nature's balance if you're a healer/druid, the shaman staff lets you raise the dead. If you go heavy in UMD you can use them all, and they're really -cool-, so it'd be unfortunate if Healers couldn't ever use them.

4. All the clerics really should get Shield prof, or we need a proper spellcasting offhand of some sort. It looks silly to walk around with an 'focus' that's just a dagger or blade or mace or whatever. Maybe limited to small shields if possible? Maybe cut out light proficiency for healer/cloister in lieu?

Though a new Orb item or other focus item would be amazing.

5. It'd be nice if Heal/MassHeal would be affected by the divine favor of Healer path. While the spell synergy is really cool, the cure wound spells (other than healing circle, which I assume this helps) don't heal enough to be worth using over Heal. So useful if you happen to run out of high level spellslots, or for healing between fights (when you wouldn't cast Divine Favor).

5. The divine favor buffs are really cool, and the expanded epic feat selection is great.

Great work all together!

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:37 am

Thank you for the replies. Going to try and split up my comments into sections to cover different aspects of the update.

- Will selecting a path take up a class feat, or will we be granted a new extra feat at level 2 to select path?


- Also wondering about healer path and its weapon proficiencies. How will we have a staff or offhand, or is the idea that we can hold things and suffer a -4 AB penalty for it? Do we get gear benefits from equipment we're not proficient with?


- Not really a question but a comment, letting CHA clerics synergize with bard is an elegant solution, I like it.


- Not sure how I feel about cloistered path's spell refunding. It's only for domain spells, and most of the spells I use are not domain spells. And the chance of it going off is low enough that it doesn't seem like something I would ever build a spellbook around even if it applied to all spells. I'll still slot all of the same spells I currently do because I don't want to rely on luck to get all of the spells I want to cast.

It seems like the mechanic would be most effective with the suffering domain where it enhances harm spamming. I'd have a 50% chance to get a refund of a spell I already slot a lot of, I'm not going to feel punished if the proc doesn't go off. In contrast with illusion, I'll have a 60% chance of getting a refund on phantasmal killer, which I never slot because my 4th level spells are already stretched with really useful things I'd rather cast.
Phantasmal killer is a meme spell that maybe will 1-hit kill, it doesn't compare to casting harm which does raw damage. The magic domain gets lesser missile storm, but it occupies the same slot as suffering domain's harm and is worse than harm.

What this is going to do is make it so the only really optimal choice for cloister clerics to utilize their path benefit is to take the suffering domain. Some of the other domains have options that might be fun or memey, but nothing even compares to suffering. Harm is the main damage spell, any caster cleric is already going to prepare a lot of it. And only one domain gets it as a bonus spell.

I was just going over my spellbook and realized it's even worse than I thought. Harm is normally 6th level, which means I never slot in extended haste and only a single extended true seeing. With the suffering domain, it means I could slot the majority of my 5th level spells as harm, and all of my hastes and true seeings are extended. On top of being able to spam harm more effectively, suffering clerics will be able to extend all of their hastes without losing anything for it.

You've created a single giga powerful domain. Suffering is going to need to lose its 5th level harm, it's just too good. No other domain benefits like this.



- Path of the warpriest seems a bit underpowered given that it gives up epic spell focus commands, epic spells, and summons. Divine power/favor last longer, but it doesn't solve the problem of wind-up time before battle. Would it be too op to give them auto-quickened div power/favor, removing some of the windup time? That'd be a unique thing the path could have that would set it apart from standard clerics that would justify limiting their epic magic usage.

I'm not sure why the path loses summons. It's going to make low levels more difficult, melee cleric is not good at low levels before it gets some of its cookies. I say this having leveled a rogue to 30, rogue felt better at low levels than cleric does without a summon. If the concern is that letting warpriests have summons will let them trivialize endgame PVE too much, perhaps make it so they can't benefit from conjuration spell focuses? That would let low levels have a dire boar, and would make it so summon creature loses effectiveness in epic levels.

Another solution might be to let warpriests specialize in melee more from the get-go, where taking the path would give some sort of benefits that scale up with more levels. So low levels could effectively survive before they get their standard bag of tricks. And so high levels could specialize more into melee in ways that would justify giving up epic magic use.

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by TurningLeaf » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:48 am

I'm not sure I understand the Evangelist bonuses to bard song. Specifically the part where it says that during divine power, the effective song level is capped at 10 without bard levels and 15 with bard levels. Would this mean that during divine power, a 27/3 cleric bard would have bard song level of 12 because cleric levels /3 = 9 plus the 3 bard levels? Or is it automatically bumped up to 15 during divine power because the bard levels are there?

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by MRFTW » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:09 am

I would prefer if replenishment was based on something other than RNG. Cooldown ala warlock pact spells or charges (eg every 4th spell is replenished)

Managing pact spells Vs spell slots on the 3 minute cooldown pact spells is one of my favourite mechanics of warlocks.

Other than that, which is a subjective opinion, my other subjective opinion is that this looks really interesting!

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:19 am

My initial thoughts ...


-The monk ac adjustments are smart, and really should be considered for all wisdom based casters not just the specific paths labeled.

-The spell recoup seems fine. The cloister cleric is going to use domain spells more than anything, and depending on the percentile of getting it back it might become an issue with the stronger caster domains like strength and mind, but that totally depends on the percentile.

-The +2 dc for spells is strong. Not too strong for arelith mind you, we all have obscene saves, but in a lot of ways especially with the newer domains this will make a cloistered cleric better than most wizards at dc spells. My eyes immediately went toward strength domain in particular when reading this one.

-The +2 dc for the evangelist makes them a strictly better enchanter then even a shadow mage. Hell, they may be already without the +2 dc and the bard synergies, since you can now do cleric things to your army, but good hope was the one thing that put the arcane enchanter in a competitive place. Now the cleric has a better dc then any non-shadow mage enchanter, a slightly worse on ab but more versatile way of boosting through bard song, and mixed with something like heal domain can overheal too. Or use aura of vitality out of war domain. Or...well, I didn't have time to go through all the or's.

-I'm a bit hesitant about the war priest, because it feels like it gained a lot without losing much if anything that really matters. I never used summons on the two battle priests I have played, save maybe gate for tough bosses or pvp. Not having access to the epic sf feats is going to make a lot of players twitch some because of the qol they bring, but on my last battle cleric I only took esf trans and that was for the turns per level extended aura of vitality, not the portals. Everything else was strength and combat feats. She tore through everything in her path with ease, and she would have been strictly upgraded by this change. Can I say for sure it's too good for pvp? No, clerics were lagging behind, and I haven't run any tests on the pgcc yet. But my radar is dinging. Perhaps removing greater sanc from their spell list is a good idea, since it can be used to great effect by a burst damage build like these will be that also requires some wind up. But again, I can't say for certain its necessary and there is always mords aoes to try and counter this (though a smart player is going to cast gs and run to another position, and readjust their position again when you cast true seeing making it hard to target even with an aoe). I do feel pretty confident however that if I am able to come out of gs fully wound up and falchion in hand killing just about anyone from there is going to be child's play. Not even corner stealthers will be safe, because I am definitely going to be deep on spot.

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:10 am

As someone who was excited for the Path of the Warpriest, someone has to explain to me why it is viable over Base Cleric.

Has the meta changed so drastically that getting free Combat Casting and Improved Combat Casting is beneficial? I always thought those were "not worth it."

While ICC lets you cast spells without triggering any AoO... somehow that seems slightly at odds with the extended duration now being granted to Divine Favour and Divine Power. I thought a good battlecleric wants to be spending time smashing face, not casting spells, during combat.

From a design perspective, they seem to conflict? Wouldn't it make more sense to either marry ICC with a more "super charged" Divine Favour/Divine Power, or, alternatively, give Warpriests combat-related feats to align with the extended DF/DP?

Party's suggestion of "auto-quickening" typical wind-up spells seems more aligned? Warpriests = reduced wind-up?

Additionally, what this means is confusing: "1H Concussion Weapon Specialization for Forge Domain (superseded by War Domain)"

Overall, from my vantage point, the trade-offs don't seem worth it.
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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Svrtr » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:26 am

TurningLeaf wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:48 am
I'm not sure I understand the Evangelist bonuses to bard song. Specifically the part where it says that during divine power, the effective song level is capped at 10 without bard levels and 15 with bard levels. Would this mean that during divine power, a 27/3 cleric bard would have bard song level of 12 because cleric levels /3 = 9 plus the 3 bard levels? Or is it automatically bumped up to 15 during divine power because the bard levels are there?
Yes. 27/3 bard would have a level 12 song, but when the buff is up that would be bumped to 15

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Eyeliner » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:43 am

Party in the forest at midnight wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:37 am
I'm not sure why the path loses summons. It's going to make low levels more difficult, melee cleric is not good at low levels before it gets some of its cookies. I say this having leveled a rogue to 30, rogue felt better at low levels than cleric does without a summon. If the concern is that letting warpriests have summons will let them trivialize endgame PVE too much, perhaps make it so they can't benefit from conjuration spell focuses? That would let low levels have a dire boar, and would make it so summon creature loses effectiveness in epic levels.
Can't get in the game to test today... Can they still use scrolls of summon 1-IX? If so that seems like an annoyance I could deal with, just losing the spells from your book but still being able to buy scrolls to cast them (especially at low levels). If they're blocked entirely that seems harsh.

I'm not going to try and figure out anything else while at work but looks like interesting stuff, though I am starting to wonder if this is still Dungeons and Dragons, lol. But I do think some of this stuff ought to be considered for wizards. They're really feeling left behind after looking at these changes. Why can't specialists replenish in their schools for example, if that's now on the table for Vancian casters?

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:37 am

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:10 am
As someone who was excited for the Path of the Warpriest, someone has to explain to me why it is viable over Base Cleric.

Has the meta changed so drastically that getting free Combat Casting and Improved Combat Casting is beneficial? I always thought those were "not worth it."

While ICC lets you cast spells without triggering any AoO... somehow that seems slightly at odds with the extended duration now being granted to Divine Favour and Divine Power. I thought a good battlecleric wants to be spending time smashing face, not casting spells, during combat.

From a design perspective, they seem to conflict? Wouldn't it make more sense to either marry ICC with a more "super charged" Divine Favour/Divine Power, or, alternatively, give Warpriests combat-related feats to align with the extended DF/DP?

Party's suggestion of "auto-quickening" typical wind-up spells seems more aligned? Warpriests = reduced wind-up?

Additionally, what this means is confusing: "1H Concussion Weapon Specialization for Forge Domain (superseded by War Domain)"

Overall, from my vantage point, the trade-offs don't seem worth it.
I think you keyed in on the wrong things. Sure, the combat casting feats are whatever. But getting weapon specialization means that you no longer need to have 4 levels of fighter to get it even if you want epic weapon spec. So now for one example you can take 4 levels of cot, basically giving you 8 epic level feats (with one being epic weapon spec) and +2 saves. Toss in abj defense, and now you can reasonably stop at 24 cleric levels without having to take two feats (abj focus, abj defense) which means something like 3 fighter (again don't need 4 levels for epic spec) 3 rogue for max tumble ac is feasible, as is going 3 paladin/3 rogue for tumble ac super saves if you go charisma (though I don't think right now this is the best way to go). Also, an extended divine power with a cl of 26 is over five minutes with it up. You double that, its now ten minutes + with divine power up for every time you cast. That is absolutely huge, as you can now pretty much keep it up all the time with the right domains.

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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:14 pm

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:37 am
Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:10 am
As someone who was excited for the Path of the Warpriest, someone has to explain to me why it is viable over Base Cleric.

Has the meta changed so drastically that getting free Combat Casting and Improved Combat Casting is beneficial? I always thought those were "not worth it."

While ICC lets you cast spells without triggering any AoO... somehow that seems slightly at odds with the extended duration now being granted to Divine Favour and Divine Power. I thought a good battlecleric wants to be spending time smashing face, not casting spells, during combat.

From a design perspective, they seem to conflict? Wouldn't it make more sense to either marry ICC with a more "super charged" Divine Favour/Divine Power, or, alternatively, give Warpriests combat-related feats to align with the extended DF/DP?

Party's suggestion of "auto-quickening" typical wind-up spells seems more aligned? Warpriests = reduced wind-up?

Additionally, what this means is confusing: "1H Concussion Weapon Specialization for Forge Domain (superseded by War Domain)"

Overall, from my vantage point, the trade-offs don't seem worth it.
I think you keyed in on the wrong things. Sure, the combat casting feats are whatever. But getting weapon specialization means that you no longer need to have 4 levels of fighter to get it even if you want epic weapon spec. So now for one example you can take 4 levels of cot, basically giving you 8 epic level feats (with one being epic weapon spec) and +2 saves. Toss in abj defense, and now you can reasonably stop at 24 cleric levels without having to take two feats (abj focus, abj defense) which means something like 3 fighter (again don't need 4 levels for epic spec) 3 rogue for max tumble ac is feasible, as is going 3 paladin/3 rogue for tumble ac super saves if you go charisma (though I don't think right now this is the best way to go). Also, an extended divine power with a cl of 26 is over five minutes with it up. You double that, its now ten minutes + with divine power up for every time you cast. That is absolutely huge, as you can now pretty much keep it up all the time with the right domains.
This makes a lot more sense, I was looking at the wrong spot. I forget that you can now go straight to CoT.

I think the Divine Favour extension might actually also be much better than Divine Power, if it works like -

1 min x 2 (warpriest) = 2mins, and then extended, it goes to 4 mins?

Do we know if it is duplicative or additive? 4mins vs 3 mins? Because 4mins-up of Divine Favour off 1 cast is very sweet.
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Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Distant Relation » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:31 pm

Not a fan of the overall design direction, if I'm quite honest.

Some of the paths are too tied with specific multiclass options. These don't feel like 'paths', but more like build guides out of the build wiki page for you to follow exactly and mechanically to arrive at a build precision engineered to do one thing and one thing only (Warpriest: Wind up and delete people in rapid fire pvp, for example).

Also not a fan of keying off divine power/divine strength in the context of boosting spells. This again feels tailor made for fast, sweaty pvp encounters, but feels very nonsensical in pve. Spending action economy and a spell slot for a small chance of spell slot refund isn't really exciting for dungeon crawling. Warlock-style spell refund cooldowns fit this way, way better.

But since the one path I care about is Healer, I'll focus my feedback on that one alone.

Overheal: Healer path getting bonus overheal over the actual domain is welcome.2 hp per level means this path power will be a complete afterthought during the leveling stage, and only feel whole at level 30. Suggest changing this to a flat bonus of +30 max overheal if you are in healer path instead. Exactly the same at max level, but it will help healers be healers from the very moment they give up all access to armor and weapons.

Respite: Getting it earlier is nice, and opens the possibility of multiclassing without losing Respite. I don't particularly like Respite as a gimmicky once a rest ability so I feel very ambivalent about this. I'm guessing this is here so you can multiclass for discipline as a pvp thing and still keep Respite?

Spontaneous casting Circle/Massheal/Heal: One of the better healer path perks and one of the main reasons to go healer pre-change, but ironically one that serves better Healers (path) that don't take the Healing or Suffering domains. The spell slot levels these key off of are too precious to waste, and you will be casting these spells at a lower spell level anyway. Still good to have, no complaint.

Bigger AoE spell radius: The dark horse of the healer path perks, always forgotten, but strong, reliable and effective in both pve and pvp. Love it.

Divine Favor: Maximized Cure spells for one minute. This feels pretty pointless outside of a leveling up scenario. Don't get me wrong, its nice to have, and I can see myself preparing 1-2 divine favors on 1 (level 2 slots are WAY too precious for this gimmick, even extended), just in case I run out of all the other methods of healing I have. Feels like an awkward way to shoe in a healer functionality to the meme of 'spin up divine favor/power to do cleric things' that runs through these paths. Speaking of...

Divine Power: Really, hugely not a fan of this. A very short duration buff that gives you a chance to get spell slots refunded on cast, with high chance on the spells that you're unlikely to need to spam, and a progressively lower chance for the spell slots you'd love to get a few back every so often. I'm supremely not excited for this, both as a design direction and as a mechanical 'reward' for the insane cost of losing weapons and armor.
Extra, if this is what you're interested in, Cloistered Cleric does it *way* better. You can get refunds on your healer spells if you go healer domain AND you can also get refunds on other, spammable, useful low level spells like Hammer of the Gods, Sound Lance, Searing Light, etc. Cloistered Cleric with the Healer domain is actually a really good healer if you're willing to give up bigger aoes on heals (really the only big loss), and in return you get +2 DC on SoV (the best healing is when damage doesn't happen at all).

If Divine Favor/Divine Power spinning up to do stuff is here to stay, I'd probably rather see these retooled into something that better fits those 'ohshit' moments where you have to stabilize a situation that's falling apart.

Nintendo Entertainment System
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Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:04 am

Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Nintendo Entertainment System » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:37 pm

As a general feedback note, when an update states a mechanic has a 'chance to refresh,' please include more details about the actual probabilities. This will allow players to better assess the worth of a feature when deciding on building options, or when giving feedback.

For example, the recent paladin update stated that Holy Sword for the Vengeance and Inquisitor paths had a chance of refreshing certain feat abilities. On paper, this looked rather potent and exciting. But in-game, these abilities trigger very, very rarely.

It's hard to judge the viability of 'refresh' mechanics without knowing the details.

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Party in the forest at midnight
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Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:55 pm

Re: Cleric Paths Feedback

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:43 pm

The percentages were posted.
Refund chances from the paths will apply to applicable spells from both Favored Soul and Cleric spellbook
Chance based on Spell Level is 10% less for every spell level starting at 100%
1: 90%, 2: 80%, 3: 70%, 4: 60% 5: 50%, 6: 40%, 7: 30% 8: 20%, 9: 10%
Meta magic will lower the refund chances proportional to the spell level increase.

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