[PGCC] Dirgesinger Feedback

[jomonog]

For the two assassin only feats, I suggest decoupling the dex or charisma benefits from the feats so that all classes can potentially benefit from building into dex as a dirgesinger. I'd leave the on hit momento mori and the extra APR as the exclusive assassin only benefits.

Having damage from momento mori scale off higher of charisma or dex from level 2 dirgesinger and DCs scale of higher of charisma or dex from level 10 dirgesinger would incentivise dex based bards or dex hybrids like the ranger bard dirge and not just have those feats only benefitting an application locked class like assassin.

Seems a really interesting class to play, looking forward to experimenting with it.

[time_limited]

Looks to be a very nice class to play (run some tests on PGCC).

When I tried to add it to my character on the live server it was not selectable despite having all of the prerequisites. Is it because it is still PGCC -only?

Actual Feedback:
1. The summoned Echo creatures - can they be made unatackable somehow by the NPCs? I am asking because I was using the echo summons as essentially shields against enemies, while my mummies were free to attack anyone. The echo spawns are taking too much of enemies attention i think. Their damage I think is fine. Could the Echos visual look like.. idk Crows maybe instead of a shadow?
2. The Macabre Eulogy 3 activation effect - could this be made Targetable on a friendly summon/player (In party only) instead of arpund the dirgesinger?
3. I think the DCs of the Dirges are slightly too low maybe? For not a full charisma build those dirge DCs will be too low i think. Example of myself with final 22 CH: 5+10+(33+3+10+20+5)/5 = 29. Could we get that Performance modifier to be 4 or 3 instead of 5 ?
4. Dirge of harvest damage seems to be more sensible now
5. Really like the "OR" from the requirement for the dirgesinger

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Looks to be a very nice class to play (run some tests on PGCC).

When I tried to add it to my character on the live server it was not selectable despite having all of the prerequisites. Is it because it is still PGCC -only?

Actual Feedback:
1. The summoned Echo creatures - can they be made unatackable somehow by the NPCs? I am asking because I was using the echo summons as essentially shields against enemies, while my mummies were free to attack anyone. The echo spawns are taking too much of enemies attention i think. Their damage I think is fine. Could the Echos visual look like.. idk Crows maybe instead of a shadow?
2. The Macabre Eulogy 3 activation effect - could this be made Targetable on a friendly summon/player (In party only) instead of arpund the dirgesinger?
3. I think the DCs of the Dirges are slightly too low maybe? For not a full charisma build those dirge DCs will be too low i think. Example of myself with final 22 CH: 5+10+(33+3+10+20+5)/5 = 29. Could we get that Performance modifier to be 4 or 3 instead of 5 ?
4. Dirge of harvest damage seems to be more sensible now
5. Really like the "OR" from the requirement for the dirgesinger

Yes, it's PGCC only right now.


1. Too hard to do. Given they do damage, if they were unattackable the AI scripts would still be confused. Them not being attackable would give you invulnerable tanks. Not the intended effect. I want to see how it works out on live.
1a. Originally I intended to make them look like the player. The shadow model was a placeholder. They should be humanoid because otherwise they can't perform the dance animation and thus it would otherwise look strange.
2. It's intended to be AoE, but is there a particular reason for this suggestion?
3. They don't count Spellcraft so they're actually more useful than they appear. Nevertheless I will keep an eye on the numbers and adjust as necessary if I receive more feedback on this subject.

Thanks for the feedback.

[time_limited]

Thanks for Your replies Sorrow.

1a. Regarding the visuals of the echos - I thought it would be nice to be able to customize it for different characters. Shadows are nice and ok but Crows, Insects or I don't know some other choosable models could be maybe better fitting to ones RP. Somethin like those leanable streams

2. Well me and my husband play only pve usually, so my suggestion comes from the pve side. Often it happens that our characters separate in combat (one runs ahead) so that's why I thought it could be useful to be able to cast onto another party member.

3. No spellcraft bonus..hmm maybe it wil be ok then with curse song, though I think it will be just slightly too low for non full CH dirgesingers.

4. One thing which also pop up for me is the Necromancy interaction. The free ESF:Necro is great and fits with the Undead theme. But available Bard necro spells are not really a lot to work with so it does shoehorn all of the Dirgesingers into necro builds with mummies. Would it be possible to actually get a choice instead to support other dirge styles? Let's say.. if you have have gsf:Illusion - then add Esf:Illusion and allow to cast wierd, if you have had:Evo then add esf:Evo and allow an epic damage spell as a feat at 10lvl, if you have gsf:abjur..then give esf:abjur and allow ward at 10 dirge... Etc. So not shoehorn all of the dirgesingers into a summon mummy style but allow a choice depending on what the character focus into?

Other then those I don't have any other points to raise I like the class on pgcc.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Thanks for Your replies Sorrow.

1a. Regarding the visuals of the echos - I thought it would be nice to be able to customize it for different characters. Shadows are nice and ok but Crows, Insects or I don't know some other choosable models could be maybe better fitting to ones RP. Somethin like those leanable streams

2. Well me and my husband play only pve usually, so my suggestion comes from the pve side. Often it happens that our characters separate in combat (one runs ahead) so that's why I thought it could be useful to be able to cast onto another party member.

3. No spellcraft bonus..hmm maybe it wil be ok then with curse song, though I think it will be just slightly too low for non full CH dirgesingers.

4. One thing which also pop up for me is the Necromancy interaction. The free ESF:Necro is great and fits with the Undead theme. But available Bard necro spells are not really a lot to work with so it does shoehorn all of the Dirgesingers into necro builds with mummies. Would it be possible to actually get a choice instead to support other dirge styles? Let's say.. if you have have gsf:Illusion - then add Esf:Illusion and allow to cast wierd, if you have had:Evo then add esf:Evo and allow an epic damage spell as a feat at 10lvl, if you have gsf:abjur..then give esf:abjur and allow ward at 10 dirge... Etc. So not shoehorn all of the dirgesingers into a summon mummy style but allow a choice depending on what the character focus into?

Other then those I don't have any other points to raise I like the class on pgcc.

1a. it's meant to be an echo of the performer, not an illusion that they can choose. The shadow is a lag-mitigating placeholder until a safe way is devised to make it look better.

2. You can already do that.

4. Way too powerful. It also puts it in a category of "gets too much stuff".

[BattleDrake]

So, been doing some number crunching, and I'm wondering how much of unnecessary power creep would it be to have 10 dirge give +3 to bard song level instead of +2?

For the build I'm thinking of most, 4/10/16 bard/dirge/pm, it'd push the bard song to 15 from 14 which is a nice tier to be at. You get 1 more to skills, 1 more to ac, and a slight bump in other songs skills/bonuses. The only way to hit it without a cl push with the class spread is something like 7/10/13 and that loses too much in trade.

Being so close to that 15 bard song level is taunting me

[AstralUniverse]

So, been doing some number crunching, and I'm wondering how much of unnecessary power creep would it be to have 10 dirge give +3 to bard song level instead of +2?

For the build I'm thinking of most, 4/10/16 bard/dirge/pm, it'd push the bard song to 15 from 14 which is a nice tier to be at. You get 1 more to skills, 1 more to ac, and a slight bump in other songs skills/bonuses. The only way to hit it without a cl push with the class spread is something like 7/10/13 and that loses too much in trade.

Being so close to that 15 bard song level is taunting me

I get the feeling that the +2 that ds gives to bard song was to actually make none-pm combinations have 5 song level instead of 3 (because at 3 it's barely even worth clicking at all) and the pm combination getting a bump from 12 to 14 is circumstantial and honestly the pm combination is already the best, so I dont know if another +1 bump is really necessary. that 12 to 14 bump also means you can sometimes wear a towershield +4 (and possibly a full plate if you get the heavy armor feat?) without it knocking off any ac from your bard song so I'd just take that W and smile.