Guld Start.

[Zavandar]

I think the latest change worsens the problem of character stagnation (since ECL reductions were removed, too), and that it ought to reverted.

But I know that won't happen, so something like malcolm's suggestion would be nice. And it seems like most people agree:



I guess in the meantime we will cater to the vocal minority that attribute many of the server's problems to people leveling too fast.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I agree with Zav sort of. I don't think losing the ECL bonus matters all that much to leveling these days, but the rewards in general are in an awful place save for a few things. From a power level perspective, most of them are just inferior to elves, and some are even inferior to humans. And I do think that that will lead to issues down the line. It's one thing to have a legacy character that still actively plays, it's another issue all together to have legacy characters that show up in their old settlement when things are starting to groove there to throw their weight around despite not playing for the past few months or years. These characters already exist, and since there's literally no reason to roll for a reward unless you want to play something specific for the story, I think in due time there will be tons of these characters in people's vaults.

These rewards could easily make characters more unique too, if they were things like stealth reward ...+2 +2 to stealth skills for a normal, +4+4 for a greater, to use an easy example.

[Flower Power]

Without the ability to roll characters, I will not touch the Guldorand start again, period. Not with a 20 foot pole: and out of everyone I've talked to about this (a good couple dozen people) only one person disagrees with me, and even they admitted it was because they've been playing their character for a dozen RL years or so.

This change goes against the design philosophy of Arelith, encouraging dynamic character arcs and storytelling, I feel.

[Eyeliner]

Isn't the whole point of the sacrifice system to encourage turnover and deleting stale characters? Making some characters completely ineligible goes against that entirely and encourages keeping them in the vault.

This is also punishing those who would use the system as intended-- play one character to the end of their story and delete- because others are using it to farm awards. On principle that's just a bad way of handling things, taking something away from everyone because a few are abusing it.

This isn't the first overcompensation for the award farmers I've seen. If that is considered an issue it should be dealt with directly, not punishing those who would use the Guld start and sacrifice system in the intended manner.

Anyway, waiting until 30 is a good compromise, I hope that's enacted.

[Irongron]

I'm happy to see this changed, if not reverted. I'm not convinced that 3-26 is easier than 16-30 though, given the head start involved.

I've asked we look instead at least ensuring a normal, possibly also a greater is possible.

In the medium-long term we are looking at an entirely different approach to earning awards at which point this change will be redundant. Rewarding players for grinding through levels to earn rewards simply serves to disincentive RP.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

In the medium-long term we are looking at an entirely different approach to earning awards at which point this change will be redundant. Rewarding players for grinding through levels to earn rewards simply serves to disincentive RP.

[Flower Power]

I'm happy to see this changed, if not reverted. I'm not convinced that 3-26 is easier than 16-30 though, given the head start involved.

I've asked we look instead at least ensuring a normal, possibly also a greater is possible.

In the medium-long term we are looking at an entirely different approach to earning awards at which point this change will be redundant. Rewarding players for grinding through levels to earn rewards simply serves to disincentive RP.

If you're open to possible suggestions, I've got a few?:

- Make it so Guld-start PCs can only be rolled at L30; with Radiant Heart writs nerfed, this will take more than 3-4 days again now.
- Preclude Guld-start PCs from getting Major awards (max greater; you can still roll and get something for it, but you aren't going to get the really spicy things.)
- Kick the L16 Guld-start to a Greater, but then also add in a L8 Cordor-start as either a Normal or Minor (allowing Full-3/4 BAB characters to skip past the genuinely painful 1 APR starting levels.)

[Irongron]

Adding a level 8 start as minor reward sounds solid to me.

[Richrd]

One thing that many people don't seem to consider too when they talk about the total EXP required to level is that a level 16 headstart is massive in how it allows your build to "come online", meaning it gets enabled.

For example, a cheesy solo-build is STR shadowdancer. Good damage output, solid AB, extremely tough nut to crack for PvE.
But the first few levels are a massive pain.
Starting out at level 16 would mean a lot of things, such as already having your tank-shadow from the start.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I'm not convinced that 3-26 is easier than 16-30 though, given the head start involved.

The proper comparison as Malcolm so perfectly laid out is 1-16 compared to 26-30. And as he pointed out, its 10 k less for the 26-30, that's it. Factoring in the challenge level (the higher level dungeons in general are better balanced even if they too are pretty easy for a group) it is at worst even. For going solo, it is waaaay more difficult to get those 4 levels then it is to get the first 16 at a rapid pace. Sure, there are probably groups that grind for rewards and it will be just as easy for them if not a slight bit easier because of the boost to xp for a group, but they are also easier to spot and take whatever action you all deem necessary to rectify then a solo grinder would be.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

One thing that many people don't seem to consider too when they talk about the total EXP required to level is that a level 16 headstart is massive in how it allows your build to "come online", meaning it gets enabled.

For example, a cheesy solo-build is STR shadowdancer. Good damage output, solid AB, extremely tough nut to crack for PvE.
But the first few levels are a massive pain.
Starting out at level 16 would mean a lot of things, such as already having your tank-shadow from the start.

You're not wrong, I just don't see how it applies to this. Low levels are all about barkskin potions and shield scrolls, and a few hastes on hand for bosses. Maybe a gmw scroll or two along the way so you can keep expertise up with minimal penalty on the tougher dungeons (like doing blood moon at 7, the mound at 10, ect. ect.). If you are super squishy you can invest in lore rings and bang out some summons via scrolls assuming you can't summon them yourself like in your example. And by the time you need to go from 16 to 26 you have all the things you are saying anyways.

[Gremkarc]

Adding a level 8 start as minor reward sounds solid to me.

If this became the case, where would those level 8 characters go for their first writs? Mayfields? If so, that would probably help an issue I've been having as a new player who doesn't always go around in premade groups, which is that compared to the Cordor sewers, I find very few people running the writs given in Mayfield.

But if a level 8 start would allow rollers/experienced players to skip Mayfield too and go straight into, as I understand it, Earthkin Village writs, I'm not sure that's a good change from a perspective of a tender-hearted player just starting out and liable to get killed when trying to solo stuff.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I'm happy to see this changed, if not reverted. I'm not convinced that 3-26 is easier than 16-30 though, given the head start involved.

I've asked we look instead at least ensuring a normal, possibly also a greater is possible.

In the medium-long term we are looking at an entirely different approach to earning awards at which point this change will be redundant. Rewarding players for grinding through levels to earn rewards simply serves to disincentive RP.

As someone who like yourself has little play time, and rarely reaches epic level, and most my pvp has been under lvl 20 (all for me)

I was brainstorming the reasons that might have been that you were skeptical

These are the possible reasons I thought of:

1) the observed occurrences of those who rapidly circle grind from 26 - 30 vs the occurrences/experiences of people who normally get to 16
- there are guys out there that can circle grind faster than I can lvl from writs for the same time put in and then they put in way more time that I do. In the lower/medium content they are not the majority of the server, but they are much much much more visible when doing epic level content. As they are the ones most often doing epic level content. A guy like me would not even know where to go once i reached lvl 23


2) established character factor
- No matter how much gold you throw at me, I will never be as established starting at level 16 than I would be organically leveling to 16. I have to find players and make connections to spend that wealth effectively and get myself properly equipped. Roleplaying, finding resources to craft myself, making connections all takes time and since I don't have an already established adventuring xp pool, I am not rapidly having the same exp gains as others would just be spending the same time roleplaying instead of dungeon delving. A new character that reaches level 16 reaches the turning point for acquiring equipment and has lots of RPR tick xp rolling as they lazily stroll shops between their writs. A new character can not afford this luxury of time for their head start to be a head start. Proper use of scrolls can help counter that, but not everyone is that savvy.

3) certain builds
- if we are doing summon based builds (caster or shadow dancer, etc), then yeah Guld start is a great one, especially with overtuned planar conduit right now where you can solo end game content on your own with ease and don't need to immediately take care of all your gear needs immediately.


If roll at level 30 and same rewards tiers is not enough after said arguments, let me offer the following alternatives (I would not combine them):

- Only 5% (plus wealth) major rewards. Traditionally an arelith reward is all or nothing. rolling a 30 character and not having some small chance for major seems off to me. Having a 90 to 95% chance to have no reward at all will make guld 'restarts' end the cycle of recycling the same reward over and over again.

- disable writs most of other settlement areas, this will help populate Guldorand better and inentivise people to actaully play in guldorand as a guldorand start.

-------------------------------------------

Regarding the alternative reward systems:

Just be weary that we moved away from locking stuff behind RPR for very good reasons that were creating a toxic environment for many.

After thinking about this for a long time, if nobody has thought about this:

rather than being purely time played based, keep the original system as is (with small tweaks), but limit how many characters can be rolled every 'X' amount of months so players are essentially capped to how many they can roll throughout the year and thus feel no need to rush grind character after character and will blend in with the players that naturally reach said high levels and naturally roll their character at the right time.

[Irongron]

Thanks for the feedback. It is likely something similar to your suggestion will happen soon with awards, at least until a more detailed system is complete. I plan to give details on the forums as soon as I have a clearer timetable.

[Tikin]

Hey there!

I'm not much of an award personn, I never rolled any char in almost 3 years playing (will try to get ridd of the one I don't play at all though, promise XD).

However, I've tried the Guld Award (thanks to the normal we received when it was released ), and appreciated it.
I think the changes are a good response to the issues that have been explained.

About the rolling question, a thought occured to me: what if instead of no award at all on rolling the char, the award for a guld start rolled was capped at Normal? (no idea if it's feasible, but I imagine it would be a good middle ground and disqualify the award grinders xD...)

In any case, thanks for this award, not everyone is as good as some to handle early levels.

[xf1313]

Malcom has suggested something amazing thou, limiting rolling number can tune people down without hurting too much. At the same time, if we are going through this, award percentage should be allowed to rise a bit. (Or a few more race down grade a bit, either works)

A starter shop can be great, for normal and Guld start character, getting some basic gear and a lot of the problems are solved. I seriously wish the surrounding of Guld is made less dangerous, and a more accessible portal in town can help a lot. Guld start at current state is a no to me, i’d rather use normal award to get a race and do writs.

however it never really bothered me that some people are spending lots of time to grind and roll their characters....they must have something interesting in their mind and needed that award badly. Rp wise? They are just background sellsword that are busy with things, nothing to worry about.