Guld Start.

[Azensor]

Having tried this twice now, once on a dex sd and then on a dex monk it just feels.. off?

On the one hand you get to skip early lvling and get abit of coin to grab a few basic bits of gear, well and good on both of those except that the mobs /in/ guldorand and surrounding it will chew through the character if you cant find any gear for sell or if the build isnt overturned.

On the other hand, are you meant to stay in the city because if the reward is meant to encourage people to stay it's failed on that front spectacularly.

The thing that kinda irks me abit is that once you use the reward and lvl the char to 14,the lvl the reward gives, your basically locked-in and cant refund the reward..which considering the overtuned nature of the mobs in the area is abit ehh.

And on gearing, the reward gives what 75k for buying gear, which is alright if the gear is on sale you can usually get a decent set for that price.. /IF/ its on sale, if it isnt? your basically fubar from the start, because again the creatures you fight can and will shred through the character with ease.

How to fix it? Eh..open the reward to other cities, within racial limits for some cities, would probably be the easiest fix. the other would be looking over the tuning of the mobs in and near guld.

[Drowboy]

I've seen it referred to as 'caster start' and that's mostly accurate. Either way, the way to make it work is to immediately bail and go to the crow's nest or something.

Whether that's the intention or not is a different question.

[MRFTW]

I've seen it referred to as 'caster start' and that's mostly accurate.

Scarily accurate. Although I did manage to eke out an existence as an EKD there (they are pretty overtuned in pre-epic PvE).

It'd be better, as I've mentioned before, if it started the player in Westcliff. You can instaport to Guld via the boat if you're that desperate, and the road down from Westcliff to Bendir Dale / Cordor is reasonable for level 14.

Hot take: if you take a Guldorand start, you shouldn't be able to roll for an award.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Hot take: if you take a Guldorand start, you shouldn't be able to roll for an award.

At this point you might as well remove it, since you are punishing the few people who actually hate low levels so much they are willing to give up 3-5 times the gold to save 3-5 days. I do see how rollsters could definitely think that trade is worth it however, so I see where you are coming from.

[Eyeliner]

We don't have to turn everything into a problem. It's fine the way it is, it's a nice option to skip low level content you've done many times before (the majority of which hasn't been changed since the 00s) and a player with a full time job isn't getting to 16 in 3 days so they appreciate the head start.

"Rollsters" are going to do what they're going to do so don't punish players who are using the award the way it's intended because of them.

[Rei_Jin]

The idea of the Guldorand start was to encourage players to make new characters and invest in Guldorand as an RP base.

It hasn’t worked, with folk using it for a mechanical boost for certain builds, just as the genuine advice given on the discord to folks who find themselves in Guldorand after leaving Skal is “here’s how the ferries work to leave”.

I love the look and feel of Guldorand as a city, but IMO it’s not working currently, and hasn’t really since it’s inception.

There’s a number of factors as to the why of that, but either those things need to be addressed (unlikely it seems) or folk have to find workarounds.

Personally, I’d rather the level 14 start and Skal ferry took people to Sibiyad; it would work far better.

[AstralUniverse]

It's 100% caster start, but that's not Guld start's fault. Casters just have it way easier when it comes to economy. Many including myself have said that the economical gap between casters and mundane pcs is immense because the frequent gear upgrades required across all levels as a mundane where as a caster, gear is almost entirely irrelevant for leveling and grinding gold in level equivalent places.

When it comes to Guld start its the difference between starting with 60k gold at lvl 14 and reaching lvl 14 with probably more than 100k built up + a lot of magical items with +1 stat x2. For a caster, that difference is meaningless, while for a mundane it literally means needing to spend *time* grinding gold and some magical items before you can actually go play at a lvl 14 content so here's the root of the difference and why Guld start is caster-only.

I did a guld start div swash - 0% that I'll do it again.
I did a guld start warlock - 100% will do again.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

We don't have to turn everything into a problem. It's fine the way it is, it's a nice option to skip low level content you've done many times before (the majority of which hasn't been changed since the 00s) and a player with a full time job isn't getting to 16 in 3 days so they appreciate the head start.

"Rollsters" are going to do what they're going to do so don't punish players who are using the award the way it's intended because of them.

I don't necessarily disagree with your premise, but you made me sound like a bum. I can get to level 14 in 5 days no problemo playing less then an hour and a half a day. Its all about writ selection my man.


Also, "Rollsters"....Nailed it!

[MRFTW]

Hot take: if you take a Guldorand start, you shouldn't be able to roll for an award.

At this point you might as well remove it, since you are punishing the few people who actually hate low levels so much they are willing to give up 3-5 times the gold to save 3-5 days. I do see how rollsters could definitely think that trade is worth it however, so I see where you are coming from.

As a serial rollster (although I prefer the term lootboxer), I actually prefer to start at level 1, though I do tend to play melee, which Astral has pointed out has more to gain from 1-14 than casters do.

My thoughts behind this idea are that if I level 3-14 and roll, I get no reward. Why should I get a reward for 14-26? Late teen and epic levelling is MUCH better and easier than low levels, that's one reason why people like to spend their awards on skipping it.

[Amateur Hour]

Just popping in to mention that archer builds tend to be super painful in the early levels (particularly if you don't have someone to tandem with, because you are only slightly more durable than a caster with a minimal ability to buff yourself for free), so the Guld start can be good for them as well.

[Baseili]

Folks have started lowering prices and selling gear that should help those who start or travel to Guldorand but I whole heartily agree that the mobs in the area need a tweaking as there are some wonky difficultlies going on, such as the orcs before the talassians being much more dangerous than the dungeon. Or my personal bane, the cave slimes with slow, 30 damage acid shields and 30 flat DR.

[Security_Blanket]

I've never done the Guld start, but I've done a bunch of Guld content. I won't even go to Guldorand until I'm level 16, a fully geared level 16. You got spawns with decent AB and purging invisibility on top of it, it's a little much for someone fresh off the boat.

[Spriggan Bride]

Rather see Guld dungeons made more viable for a mid teen than lose the Guld start. It's a cool option.

I really don't see anything else I'd spend a normal or higher award on anyway. I've played the "unusual" races I wanted to play and it's so rare any new ones are added. May as well just use it to get to the part of the game I like and skip the early levels I'm really sick of. From an RP perspective I also really like joining the world as a competent character sometimes. Especially if playing someone older and mature.

The gold thing could be an issue but it's a lot easier to raise some quick gold at level 14 than level 3.

[AstralUniverse]

About Guldorand's dungeons.

The dungeons are significantly harder than the rest of the surface. This isnt necessarily because of raw stats, and what I actually observe is simply a more realistic design. The mob's 'builds' more compliment one another and their AI's seem to work more smoothly.

For a lvl 14 caster that summons a greater elemental or a celestial avenger, or a pair/trio of mummies, it's just not as much big deal as it is for a mundane character. The only reason I would go to guld dungeons at lvl 14 (no matter where or at what lvl I started) is to challenge myself masochistically, or because what I can summon solos it all the same, or because I got an op party who wants to take writs there for some reason, and otherwise I would always have much easier times clearing the Mound, or the Sibayad tombs, Morghun the black, etc etc.

[Skibbles]

Iron posted this on the Q&A section just the other day. Just putting it here, as it seems relevant, in case it was missed by readers here.

Having made it, I now think the Guld start is too challenging for 14th level. Guldorand is effectively 'post' Skaljard, so I think the medium award start should begin where that ends; level 16.

I say this having started in Guld with a medium award and having bloody murder done unto my character at every local dungeon.

Sounds like, maybe, a tweak to the guld start may be coming?

I haven't done the Guldorand start, so I don't have direct experience, but I would echo some others in that 75k starting gold sounds quite low.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

What I would do with the Guld start if I was working on it and why:


1) Make it a lesser reward, remove the ability to roll for a reward when the character is done. I liked the thought process the guy who mentioned this above had the more I thought about it, but I think trading a normal in without the ability to get something back is a bit much.

2) Create a shop in the character set up area. Give a character who takes the reward enough gold to buy a nice set up from it, but limit them enough where they have to make choices. (ie buy a set of steel gear and have enough for consumables on top or buy a set of mithril/arjale gear eating all your gold). Then remove all the gold on the character as they enter the game, forcing them to spend it or loose it so people don't get the fancy idea of turning lesser rewards into x amount of gold for their main character.

3) add a few mid teens dungeons to the area, make them pretty easy so people can get their feet wet with their character. Even just shifting existing dungeons to that area works well too. This one everyone knows already needs to happen, and its been said a gazzillion times, but its important enough to mention again.

[magistrasa]

What I would do with the Guld start if I was working on it and why:
2) Create a shop in the character set up area. Give a character who takes the reward enough gold to buy a nice set up from it, but limit them enough where they have to make choices. (ie buy a set of steel gear and have enough for consumables on top or buy a set of mithril/arjale gear eating all your gold). Then remove all the gold on the character as they enter the game, forcing them to spend it or loose it so people don't get the fancy idea of turning lesser rewards into x amount of gold for their main character.

I think something like this should be in effect for every start location. It's one of my favorite aspects of the Andunor start, where you arrive aboard a slaver's ship and can get directly introduced to the setting and mechanics of Arelith. The boatswain gives you the package delivery quest (which can easily be adapted to simply direct new players to the local registry agent), there's a banker below decks that you can borrow gold from to then purchase various items from the shopkeeper, whom as I recall has a number of unique and useful items at an affordable price for new characters to purchase, and you can interact with a number of NPCs who impart you with a general sense of the setting's mood. Once you get off that boat, there's no getting back on it, so it's just the ideal isolated area to get a character started on their journey into the world. It's always kinda baffled me that something like that doesn't exist for every starting area.

[Rei_Jin]

Iron posted this on the Q&A section just the other day. Just putting it here, as it seems relevant, in case it was missed by readers here.

Having made it, I now think the Guld start is too challenging for 14th level. Guldorand is effectively 'post' Skaljard, so I think the medium award start should begin where that ends; level 16.

I say this having started in Guld with a medium award and having bloody murder done unto my character at every local dungeon.

Sounds like, maybe, a tweak to the guld start may be coming?

I haven't done the Guldorand start, so I don't have direct experience, but I would echo some others in that 75k starting gold sounds quite low.

It used to be 30k.

And prices were higher at that point.

Even so, taking a Guldorand start and not being a caster means you either need friends/guildmembers to help you gear up, or you need to leave and do the lower level content you skipped to get yourself up to speed.

An increase to level 16, and an increase in the gold allotted (to 100k) with the changes that have been made to enchanting recently, should be enough, but even then the Guldorand dungeons/writs could do with some adjustment to match similar dungeons/writs for characters of that level.

[Ork]

Remove cave slimes & we're good.

[AstralUniverse]

I dont think a guld start at lvl 16 would make a meaningful difference. You're still at a significant gear disadvantage compared to another character at lvl 16, and you cannot go to level 16 content before you first get some gear sorted out. I'm not sure how much *gold* exactly guld start needs to give to make it worth for a mundane character and not just pile mountains of gold on a caster that doesnt need it as much, but I do think that replacing the number 14 with the number 16 leaves us more or less where we are.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Remove cave slimes & we're good.

You're too good at this game to be saying stuff like this. Cave slimes are only difficult for people who send their summons in and tune out, expecting them to do all the work.

I also agree with astral, level 16 would only make things worse if that's the only change for the reasons he laid out.

[Distant Relation]

I like the idea of having an 'arrival shop' in the customs house where you can deck yourself out in something like +2 gear and some +1/+1 jewelry. Like a mini PGCC. Have it wipe your gold / set it to 10k when you zone out so people can't carry those fat stacks into Arelith proper.

[DM Poppy]

A lot of you seem to be focusing upon "It's not enough Gold" or "I can't solo it"

The 75k is not intended to supply End Game equipment. For 75k, you've more than enough to barter with a PC Dweocrafter to have a full set of +1 +1 +2 +2 Enchanted Equipment, with enough left over for low-mid tear armour. At that point, you are set for the spawns, with a greater drop rate, to save up for your End Game equipment.

Just remember, it's not a single player game. Dungeons are not made to be traversed with ease, nor are they built to benefit a particular class more than another. Part of the enjoyment, is reaching level 30 and building up IG relationships on the way to it. The cost of healing kits and potions, is just something to keep you entertained as you play the game.

[Definately Not A Mimic]

2) Create a shop in the character set up area. Give a character who takes the reward enough gold to buy a nice set up from it, but limit them enough where they have to make choices. (ie buy a set of steel gear and have enough for consumables on top or buy a set of mithril/arjale gear eating all your gold). Then remove all the gold on the character as they enter the game, forcing them to spend it or loose it so people don't get the fancy idea of turning lesser rewards into x amount of gold for their main character.


Please don't do this. There are some people who are trying hard to lower the costs of things such as mithril armor and basic starter bags instead of keeping them at the often insane price normally seen. Having people able to buy their mid lvl armor and such in the starter area would make it completely pointless to craft those for PC shops and put a dent in the efforts of some to work with the economy.

[Azensor]

[quote="DM Poppy" snip
[/quote]

Thats assuming the gear is on sale, or you can find peeps in the city to craft it for you..or you can enchant it yourself..which usually doesnt line up.

for reference on my latest guld start, a monk, i tried looking for basic leather armor,jewelry, and some glove-weapon.. i was able to find a necklace but that was it.

has for the last bit, i honestly cant think of anywhere else that you can /start/ and need to team up to do the starting quests, obviously some things arnt meant to be soloable but that kinda circles back to what i typed before, if the mobs are that painful to handle then something needs to be tweaked.