Guld Start.

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HeyLadyOfDecay
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Re: Guld Start.

Post by HeyLadyOfDecay » Sun May 15, 2022 8:22 pm

DM Poppy wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 10:50 am
A lot of you seem to be focusing upon "It's not enough Gold" or "I can't solo it"

The 75k is not intended to supply End Game equipment. For 75k, you've more than enough to barter with a PC Dweocrafter to have a full set of +1 +1 +2 +2 Enchanted Equipment, with enough left over for low-mid tear armour. At that point, you are set for the spawns, with a greater drop rate, to save up for your End Game equipment.

Just remember, it's not a single player game. Dungeons are not made to be traversed with ease, nor are they built to benefit a particular class more than another. Part of the enjoyment, is reaching level 30 and building up IG relationships on the way to it. The cost of healing kits and potions, is just something to keep you entertained as you play the game.
I'm going to say it.. People who have skipped to lvl 14 by reward have no social network for their character unless oocly prepaired, And this is why I personally would never take the reward. the big reward of being low level is the bonds you forge along the way.
(This shows often with Skaljard players more than others)
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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Dreams » Mon May 16, 2022 3:51 am

Ask people for help IC and they help you. It's literally that simple.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Spriggan Bride » Mon May 16, 2022 4:07 am

The Skal low level experience is pretty unique and if you want to take your time leveling its a good place to be. I don't want to argue with that.

But elsewhere on the server most low levels are rushing to do writs ASAP. I don't find it any better to be level 3 or 14 if you're trying to get involved in something on the main island. It's probably better to be higher level TBH since you have more to offer with crafting and whatever.

Basically you can join a faction and make friends at any level so I don't think that holds up. Plus characters come and go so fast on Arelith i wouldn't count on anyone I met early on being around in a few weeks.
Last edited by Spriggan Bride on Mon May 16, 2022 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Azensor » Mon May 16, 2022 4:08 am

Dreams wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:51 am
Ask people for help IC and they help you. It's literally that simple.
you have seen that the guld server usually has around 5 people on right?

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Memes at its finest » Mon May 16, 2022 4:17 am

Dreams wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:51 am
Ask people for help IC and they help you. It's literally that simple.
As someone has already pointed out the fact Guldorand server rarely 5 people, not only that but all five are likely hiding behind locked doors as that seems common practice on the near-dead server. People would love to ask around for help, if there was a playerbase.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by gryggrstrkssontreelover » Mon May 16, 2022 4:26 am

Memes at its finest wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 4:17 am
Dreams wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 3:51 am
Ask people for help IC and they help you. It's literally that simple.
As someone has already pointed out the fact Guldorand server rarely 5 people, not only that but all five are likely hiding behind locked doors as that seems common practice on the near-dead server. People would love to ask around for help, if there was a playerbase.
Yeah, Guld is nearly always dead from what I've seen with people only there to cross into a new place. It's always a surprise to see more than a handful of people, especially so when they're actively congregating. I think the fault is probably that it's far too large a City and doesn't have the same type of small and connected hub that Cordor or Andunor does. I had a Guld Award on the City's creation, and after coming back to it a year or so later I used it to leave the City and look for people to help me writgrind elsewhere.
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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Flower Power » Mon May 16, 2022 4:31 am

An issue compounded by the fact that there's been a fairly strong server-culture shift towards soloing or just rolling up premade collections of characters with your buddies.

80% of the time I meet other people while out grinding, they turn around and no RP run away before I can even invite them to join.
15% of the time, they try to PvP me.
5% of the time, we actually join up.

It's nowhere near as simple as "just ask people to hunt with you" because there's a wide number of reasons why a lot of people prefer soloing instead from pacing to profits. With the way bonus XP from grouping works, you're even mechanically disincentivized from inviting random people to join you if you rolled up with a few friends.
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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Dreams » Mon May 16, 2022 4:39 am

Nothing is restricting you to staying in Guldorand. It's absolutely ridiculous to say, "No one is here so I guess I'm stuck here."

You have 75,000 gold. You can just jump on an INSTANT TRAVEL ship to any populated area: Brogendenstein, Crow's Nest > Sibayad, Crow's Nest > Cordor. You could walk into Myon and check on the community storage. You could walk through Myon and go to Bendir through the Forest.

Go to Cordor. Say you're new. You're level 14, people will probably give you stuff, but you can also afford to buy some easy things. Get yourself a Masterly Steel Weapon of whatever choice, some basic bandages, and whatever kind of armour/shield/helm you need in Steel or Mithril depending on what you're spending.

If you're a caster, you're fine without any of that stuff. If you're melee, just walk around a little bit and gather the base stuff you need. 75,000gp sucks when you're trying to buy things from typically over-priced player shops, but you can absolutely afford all of the basics and just start adventuring in a slightly below-level area for some loot.

If money is an issue, ask someone for a loan. Do some lower level writs for the pay and use that. Grind some low level stuff. I dunno, there are so many answers to this. You just got 14 free levels. You've saved so much time. It's really a non-issue. I'd still take this gift if you started off in debt.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Shadowy Reality » Mon May 16, 2022 8:21 am

I can agree with Dreams, I have done a couple of Guldorand starts myself and never ran into issues.

I never stayed in Guldorand though. Typically I go directly to Cordor to gear up and then start doing writs on the easier side to get used to the character or until I get better gear. Writs around Bendir are probably the right difficulty.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Mon May 16, 2022 10:14 am

Dreams wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 4:39 am


If money is an issue, ask someone for a loan. Do some lower level writs for the pay and use that. Grind some low level stuff. I dunno, there are so many answers to this. You just got 14 free levels. You've saved so much time. It's really a non-issue. I'd still take this gift if you started off in debt.
I think the problem (if we can even call it a real problem) isn't so much that you can't do fine by just up and leaving guldorand, but rather that you really aren't saving that much time by taking the gift. Especially if you are taking the time to do the solutions you listed. It would also be nice if people who started in guldorand stayed in guldorand for a while, at least for the daily population of the city. But that only matters if people are regularly doing this in comparison to how often they take the base start. Which is likely not nearly enough to matter, because again, its not really worth the tier two reward. You slap minus 2 ecl on your character there instead and yeah, you are three days behind to start, but you will go much faster when it matters in the epics.

And I know some people are like "you shouldn't think that way!" and I say amen, but these conversations do deserve to be rooted in reality.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Distant Relation » Mon May 16, 2022 10:21 am

On one hand, 'go out and meet people, get others to make gear for you' is really good advice, and I don't want to play that down.

But on the other hand, folks have to agree that if the response to 'there's something wrong with the Guldorand start' is 'it's fine, just leave Guldorand as soon as you arrive', then it's kind of a sign that there IS something wrong with the Guldorand start, no?
Babylon System is the Vampire wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 10:14 am
It would also be nice if people who started in guldorand stayed in guldorand for a while, at least for the daily population of the city.
Exactly so.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by RedGiant » Mon May 16, 2022 11:19 am

gryggrstrkssontreelover wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 4:26 am
I think the fault is probably that it's far too large a City and doesn't have the same type of small and connected hub that Cordor or Andunor does.
There are many points here, so I'm mostly weighing in on the Guld low population point, which is part of the problem. Treelovers point here is often overlooked.

I played Guld for a couple months while it was having a brief heyday of 20-30 ppl. Love its immersive building, but the hub aspect here makes it difficult to do business when things are so far apart and/or separated by several area transitions.

I found myself regularly porting to other parts of the server to do business just because there are areas where you can do almost all your business on one screen.

Make Guld a more frictionless experience and I think you might see this change.

Im not talking about huge changes either. Maybe just even putting a banker and universal peddler outside in the open market.
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Re: Guld Start.

Post by msheeler » Mon May 16, 2022 11:36 am

RedGiant wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 11:19 am
I played Guld for a couple months while it was having a brief heyday of 20-30 ppl. Love its immersive building, but the hub aspect here makes it difficult to do business when things are so far apart and/or separated by several area transitions.

I found myself regularly porting to other parts of the server to do business just because there are areas where you can do almost all your business on one screen.

Make Guld a more frictionless experience and I think you might see this change.

Im not talking about huge changes either. Maybe just even putting a banker and universal peddler outside in the open market.
I really don't understand what you mean by this. I read it and immediately think of the Indoor Market that not only has almost every type of NPC vendor, but also has 6 PC shops, a bank, a resource czar, every possible crafting center and like 6 quarters just up the stairs. The only thing you cannot do in there is bulk sell scrolls, or sell the odd items you can sell at black dogs, and those are like outside and around the corner.

Not only this, but there are 4 temporary shop stalls immediately outside the market right next to the public announcement board and two more mere steps away next to a town crier.

So, can you explain what you mean by
but the hub aspect here makes it difficult to do business when things are so far apart and/or separated by several area transitions
more?

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Security_Blanket » Mon May 16, 2022 12:06 pm

The biggest issue I see is just the spawns that level 14's are expected to fight off. You go into those sewers as a fighter with mediocre gear then you're a dead man. I've noticed this with not only Guldorand but a lot of new content added, it's just overtuned and will of course incentivize people to go somewhere easier. High AB, dispels, purging invisibility, I feel like you should pick one of these things for spawns that low levels have to contend with, not all three.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon May 16, 2022 3:17 pm

msheeler wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 11:36 am
RedGiant wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 11:19 am
I played Guld for a couple months while it was having a brief heyday of 20-30 ppl. Love its immersive building, but the hub aspect here makes it difficult to do business when things are so far apart and/or separated by several area transitions.

I found myself regularly porting to other parts of the server to do business just because there are areas where you can do almost all your business on one screen.

Make Guld a more frictionless experience and I think you might see this change.

Im not talking about huge changes either. Maybe just even putting a banker and universal peddler outside in the open market.
I really don't understand what you mean by this. I read it and immediately think of the Indoor Market that not only has almost every type of NPC vendor, but also has 6 PC shops, a bank, a resource czar, every possible crafting center and like 6 quarters just up the stairs. The only thing you cannot do in there is bulk sell scrolls, or sell the odd items you can sell at black dogs, and those are like outside and around the corner.

Not only this, but there are 4 temporary shop stalls immediately outside the market right next to the public announcement board and two more mere steps away next to a town crier.

So, can you explain what you mean by
but the hub aspect here makes it difficult to do business when things are so far apart and/or separated by several area transitions
more?
Thinking about the other settlements on the server and where people gather...

Cordor's fire. There's seating for easy RP and a message board in close proximity, outside but within line-of-sight of the market. If you come to Cordor, you will almost certainly see if other people are there RPing without having to scour the city.

Bendir Dale's "town center": Message boards and seating in close proximity, outside the tavern. You have to pass through this space to reach anything in the village.

Myon's High Elven Hall: People cluster near the message board and seating, but it's a frequent complaint that if a cluster decides to walk over to the lounge or the gallery or literally anywhere other than that, it will look like the entire place is deserted.

Brogendenstien's Trade Hall: People cluster near--say it with me now--the message board and seating. This time inside, but it's another place everyone has to pass through or immediately next to to reach anything else, due to door placement. When I walk from the Gates to the Hall of Legends, I can easily peek over to see if there's people talking.

Andunor's Hub: Somewhat the odd one out here, but it's a map almost every UDer is going to have to visit nearly-daily due to all the shops, the writmaster, the crafting stations, and the message board.

Guldorand's...: That's the problem. There are buildings that have lots of services like the indoor market, but it's designed to get people in and out of it quickly, which is great for realism but detrimental for RP. You have the center square where people sometimes gather, but they usually quickly walk off somewhere less public after not too long. The Eagle can be a meeting-place of sorts and tends to do better since it has the writ agent and plenty of seating.

I don't know if there's a good fix. But I think it's worth considering that realistic city design is probably not going to be good for RP because real cities are designed to get people from building A to building B as seamlessly as possible. Traffic jams are what create RP opportunity.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by MRFTW » Mon May 16, 2022 6:16 pm

msheeler wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 11:36 am
I really don't understand what you mean by this. I read it and immediately think of the Indoor Market that not only has almost every type of NPC vendor
How many transitions to empty a scroll case, empty a jewel case, sell a bounty head, use a peddlar and empty a gem pouch (the big 5 loot stops), and then buy healing supplies afterwards?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's all on one map in Sibayad.

I wonder if the fewest number of transitions to do the above trading actually involves Guldorand => Monastery Outer => Monastery inner=> Sibayad Outskirts => Sibayad for a total of 5.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Baseili » Mon May 16, 2022 7:56 pm

You can do the same in Guldorand with a one extra transition at probably one sixth of the travel time, three if you buy kits at the Kelevmor Temple and would still be quicker than walking from Guldorands front gate to the Monastery portal.

Guldorand -> Indoor Market -> Guldorand -> Black Dog -> Guldorand - Thayvian Enclave (-> Guldorand -> Kelevmor Temple)

In fact trying to walk anywhere from Guldorand probably takes longer than walking from Cordor to the Dark Spires due to the large maps and often double back paths employed on them.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by RedGiant » Mon May 16, 2022 11:50 pm

msheeler wrote: So, can you explain what you mean by
but the hub aspect here makes it difficult to do business when things are so far apart and/or separated by several area transitions
more?
So there are places on the server where you have almost universal peddlers on the same screen as the banker: Saltspar, Treadstone, and Andunor come to mind. Then there are places where one might have to travel one screen to do all such business: Cordor and Brog for example.

Guld, by comparison, requires travelling large maps and visiting multiple vendors to do such business. While realistic, its a time sink that other areas on the server simply don't incur. Even Guld's six market vendors require painfully sifting through my inevitably full inventory.

In a world with teleportation available, fast travel, and more efficient choices, I think its almost inevitable people will opt for them.
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Re: Guld Start.

Post by msheeler » Tue May 17, 2022 1:40 pm

Just to compile and confirm what this feedback is, what I am seeing is this –
  • In Guldorand City the main gather point is around the corner and effectively in a different ‘spot’ than where people come in to sell/trade/etc. and this would be basically that the hang out is in the main square, not the main courtyard that is attached to the trade building.
  • In Myon’s halls the issue is not so much that it is a different area, but that the area is so large it is easy for a group to be “off screen” and the building then looks empty to those entering it.
  • Where do you do the big sell offs – In Guldorand you would need to go to the thayvians to empty a scroll case, the indoor market to sell off your jewelry, the watch house to collect your bounties, and black dog to use the “peddler”
Image

Regarding the last point, It seems to me that it is not overly far to walk through points 1 to 5 to sell off everything from an adventure and if all you are after is the absolute quickest way to do this then it also seems to me you are more than likely wanting to get "right back to the grind".

The first and second points do seem to be something I think can be fixed with some design tweaks. I hope to make a proposal that might fix these or at least make them better.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm

I use the Elven Quarter peddler, it buys more types of stuff than either of the peddlers in Guldorand.

Also, that list is missing where to buy water, spirits, and food. That's 3 separate stops, the tavern doesn't sell all 3. I usually buy that outside of Guldorand.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Rei_Jin » Tue May 17, 2022 2:54 pm

Best places to sell up after an adventure in Arelith are Sibiyad, Sencliff, and Treadstone.

All the NPCs you need are on the same map, and in Treadstone even the banker is there.

That’s the design that people love, and sure, it may not be realistic compared to a big city. But it works.

Guldorand is a pain, as the layout isn’t intuitive.

I want to collect bounties? Go into a building.

I want to sell most of my loot? Go into a second building.

The remainder except scrolls? Third building.

Scrolls? Fourth building.

Then I want to hang out with people? It’s not near the message board, it’s by a fountain in the main square. And away from the temp stores.

If you want to fix this…

1. The watch officer who pays bounties comes outside.
2. A peddler sets himself up by the gate to the main square.
3. The scroll merchant in the indoor market starts bulk-buying scrolls from cases.
4. The temp stores move across to nearer the garrison, and spread out along the wall instead of backing onto one another.
5. You now have a main area for people to gather… put in a fire brazier and some benches and you’re done there.
6. Black Dog Emporium becomes another ownable store with quarters.

That’s one solution. I’m sure there are others.

And if you’re wondering what to do with the main square? It’s a thoroughfare. Don’t need to do anything with it. Just like the main square in Cordor with the fountains.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by MRFTW » Tue May 17, 2022 3:00 pm

msheeler wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:40 pm
Regarding the last point, It seems to me that it is not overly far to walk through points 1 to 5 to sell off everything from an adventure and if all you are after is the absolute quickest way to do this then it also seems to me you are more than likely wanting to get "right back to the grind".
It takes me about 4 minutes to load into Guldorand city. It's nothing to do with grinding. As it is, points 1-5 will involve 4 entries into Guldorand map, which is about 15 minutes of me literally watching the game load and about 5 minutes of selling.

This post was originally much longer but Rei_Jin has stated, almost to the letter, exactly what I would've suggested, too. :)

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by Amateur Hour » Tue May 17, 2022 4:13 pm

Rei_Jin wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 2:54 pm

If you want to fix this…

1. The watch officer who pays bounties comes outside.
2. A peddler sets himself up by the gate to the main square.
3. The scroll merchant in the indoor market starts bulk-buying scrolls from cases.
4. The temp stores move across to nearer the garrison, and spread out along the wall instead of backing onto one another.
5. You now have a main area for people to gather… put in a fire brazier and some benches and you’re done there.
6. Black Dog Emporium becomes another ownable store with quarters.

That’s one solution. I’m sure there are others.

And if you’re wondering what to do with the main square? It’s a thoroughfare. Don’t need to do anything with it. Just like the main square in Cordor with the fountains.
I like this! that little "foyer to the city" seemed like a convenient place to gather, but I've felt like with the current layout--specifically, spacing of the temp shops--gathering there just serves to outright obstruct traffic (unlike with Cordor, where there's plenty of seating space around the firepit but also plenty of space for people to easily walk around it). Scooting some stuff around a little would be a big improvement for (I would think) relatively little contributor time.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by msheeler » Tue May 17, 2022 8:50 pm

I have purposed some tweaks to the area that I think address this in a way that is both a compromise to the players and the design.

This is more a "meet in the middle ground" type of thing, where stuff is congregated in the main square where people naturally tend to gather an extra back door is added from the indoor market that dumps into the main square, and the courtyard is sort of cleared out to make it less crowded as you enter the city.

I'm a little torn with the main message board being left by the entry gates where people walk past it all the time, or moved to where everyone tends to hang out.
MRFTW wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 3:00 pm
It takes me about 4 minutes to load into Guldorand city.
I have no idea what to do to help you with this, that is ridiculously long. I don't know why it would take you 4 minutes and it takes me like 15 seconds absolute worst case scenario and I definitely do not have a gaming PC. It /might/ take me 20 seconds on a really bad day using my 8 year non-gaming laptop on a mobile internet connection with moderate signal.

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Re: Guld Start.

Post by msheeler » Tue May 17, 2022 8:54 pm

The next subject would be the main hall in Myon, which I do not currently have a copy of. I hope to get one in the coming week so that I might be able to see what can be done to encourage people to congregate closer together there, where people can actually see them.

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