Plant shape

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chris a gogo
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Plant shape

Post by chris a gogo » Tue May 24, 2022 5:19 pm

Just a minor gripe but each of the forms come equipped with a quarterstaff that isn't visible so the models all stand there with one hand in the air constantly.

Xerah
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Xerah » Tue May 24, 2022 5:22 pm

Lightning damage really isn't as common as cold, but shouldn't they be immune to lightning?
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Sincra
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Sincra » Tue May 24, 2022 7:19 pm

If lightning hits a tree it tends to boil and then explode.

As for the animation, we'll look into it.
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Xerah
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Xerah » Tue May 24, 2022 7:48 pm

Sincra wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 7:19 pm
If lightning hits a tree it tends to boil and then explode.
If lightning hits a shambling mound, they are 100% immune to the damage. That's just what their stat block is. It's basically like red dragons not being immune to fire; sure you can do it, but it's just strange.
Immunity to Electricity (Ex)
Shamblers take no damage from electricity. Instead, any electricity attack used against a shambler temporarily grants it 1d4 points of Constitution. The shambler loses these points at the rate of 1 per hour.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shamblingMound.htm
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jomonog
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Re: Plant shape

Post by jomonog » Tue May 24, 2022 10:12 pm

Could it please just be a slightly smaller model size so it can open all doors? Its much better, but still seems to have the problem of old dragonshape in certain smaller areas in that it gets stuck and cant navigate transitions. As such having only 3 uses per rest is problematic. Alternatively if the recharge could be on a cooldown like other class abilities that would work.

Other than that the 50% bludge vulnerability is a little bit brutal and wasnt part of the old dragon stats. I question why trees have bludge vulnerability anyway? (fire for sure makes sense haha)

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RedGiant
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Re: Plant shape

Post by RedGiant » Wed May 25, 2022 12:43 am

Also, in development I thought one of the shapes was definitely a Treant?

Seems to be heavy on the rotting vegetation/fungus angle, much to the delight of grey druids I suppose...
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jomonog
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Re: Plant shape

Post by jomonog » Wed May 25, 2022 4:05 am

Also, i know its being updated at the moment, but on live the stats announced for the forms are different than the actual stats they are getting. Either announcement was wrong or there is still some adjustments that need to be made.

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Re: Plant shape

Post by Kalopsia » Wed May 25, 2022 7:34 am

jomonog wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 4:05 am
Also, i know its being updated at the moment, but on live the stats announced for the forms are different than the actual stats they are getting. Either announcement was wrong or there is still some adjustments that need to be made.
Could you provide a list of the differences?
It's possible the announcement wasn't fully up to date with the version that went live.

jomonog
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Re: Plant shape

Post by jomonog » Wed May 25, 2022 7:43 am

No problems:

Shambling mound announcement:
- > Strength: 56
- > Dexterity: 32
- > Constitution: 40

Shambling mound actual:
Strength 56
Dex 40
Con: 32

Fungal shambler announcement:

- > Strength: 56
- > Dexterity: 38
- > Constitution: 36

Fungal shambler actual:

Strength: 56
Dex 36
Con 38

Deep fungal shambler announcement:

- > Strength: 48
- > Dexterity: 38
- > Constitution: 36

Deep fungal actual:

Strength 48
Dex 36
Con 38

Kalopsia
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Kalopsia » Wed May 25, 2022 8:42 am

jomonog wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 7:43 am
No problems:

Shambling mound announcement:
- > Strength: 56
- > Dexterity: 32
- > Constitution: 40

Shambling mound actual:
Strength 56
Dex 40
Con: 32

Fungal shambler announcement:

- > Strength: 56
- > Dexterity: 38
- > Constitution: 36

Fungal shambler actual:

Strength: 56
Dex 36
Con 38

Deep fungal shambler announcement:

- > Strength: 48
- > Dexterity: 38
- > Constitution: 36

Deep fungal actual:

Strength 48
Dex 36
Con 38
Thanks. The announcement should be correct then; turns out the 2da columns for CON and DEX are in a very unintuitive order. Thanks, BioWare! :D
I'll fix this soon.

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Jagel
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Jagel » Wed May 25, 2022 12:00 pm

Echoing the 3/day thing as being a real gripe with a shape that can’t get through some doorways/gets stuck in terrain. 5 or 6 uses, 1 per 5 levels of druid or cooldown seems more sensible.

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Sincra
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Sincra » Wed May 25, 2022 3:04 pm

RedGiant wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 12:43 am
Also, in development I thought one of the shapes was definitely a Treant?

Seems to be heavy on the rotting vegetation/fungus angle, much to the delight of grey druids I suppose...
Replacing Dragons with another technically rare and majestic being would defeat the point.
Xerah wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 7:48 pm
Sincra wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 7:19 pm
If lightning hits a tree it tends to boil and then explode.
If lightning hits a shambling mound, they are 100% immune to the damage. That's just what their stat block is. It's basically like red dragons not being immune to fire; sure you can do it, but it's just strange.
Immunity to Electricity (Ex)
Shamblers take no damage from electricity. Instead, any electricity attack used against a shambler temporarily grants it 1d4 points of Constitution. The shambler loses these points at the rate of 1 per hour.
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shamblingMound.htm
Eh. I don't think it matters overly much and we'd certainly not give full immunity even if we do adjust it.
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chris a gogo
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Re: Plant shape

Post by chris a gogo » Wed May 25, 2022 3:10 pm

The feat currently says 6x a day but you do only get 3 uses so typo or bug?

ClockworkRed
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Re: Plant shape

Post by ClockworkRed » Wed May 25, 2022 3:24 pm

Just from looking at the stats my first impression was that these new forms are quite powerful and make monolithic elemental forms obsolete by even allowing to dip another class.

Testing on a pure druid with plant shape yesterday that impression was not validated for me. As was pointed out: The plant shapes get stuck a lot and you only can use it 3x/rest. At least for me, monolithic elemental forms still beat it for that reason (or are a nice fallback).

Yet, AC can get really high on these shapes, (beating monolithic air) with having much higher AB. So in my eyes they might be still a little over the top but I am sure others are much more competent than me to evaluate this. At least I would not allow for more uses/rest as then they would clearly outperform monolithic shapes in my eyes.

Concerning the chosen shapes I find them very fitting for druids and it is nice they cover the classic forest druid theme and more of an underdark druid theme.

Finally, this goes more in the direction of suggestion than feedback. Having played a druid for a while, mechanical-wise it was quite boring for me. As soon as you shape-changed you cannot use most skills, spells or items. Possibly, using one of the plant shape slots (or water) for a form that is not "as strong" but has some special ability (e.g. ranged attack/breath attack) would be nice to have somewhat more utility and variation in druid game play. The hide skill on the underdark form is already a nice feature in that direction in my eyes.

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Kalopsia
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Kalopsia » Wed May 25, 2022 3:27 pm

chris a gogo wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:10 pm
The feat currently says 6x a day but you do only get 3 uses so typo or bug?
It doesn't say so, the prereq text states it requires the "WIld Shape 6/day" feat :)

chris a gogo
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Re: Plant shape

Post by chris a gogo » Wed May 25, 2022 7:16 pm

Ah okay then.

jomonog
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Re: Plant shape

Post by jomonog » Thu May 26, 2022 9:24 pm

Can the model size please be looked at again as it cant get through alot of doors and coupled with only 3/rest the changes don't seem to have addressed the key problem that i believed the original touted changes were intended to address. It also makes no sense given the change from huge size to large size that they can't squeeze through doors effectively making you stuck in areas. Do minotaurs or ogres have the same issue being large size? (i genuinely dont know not having played either)

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God_In_Action
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Re: Plant shape

Post by God_In_Action » Fri May 27, 2022 12:34 am

On the models not being able to fit through doors:

Is this a problem? Is it intended for players to treat plant shape as a long lasting effect that can be used for an entire dungeon? Or is it intended to be more an extremely powerful but shorter usage effect to defeat bosses? Because if its intended to be used to tackle high end bosses, whereas regular shape shifting covers regular usage and fighting, then not being able to fit through doors isn't really a problem with the way it's intended (although a shorter duration would communicate that better). If it is intended for long usage, fitting through areas is clearly a problem.

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Hazard
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Hazard » Fri May 27, 2022 6:13 am

God_In_Action wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 12:34 am
On the models not being able to fit through doors:

Is this a problem? Is it intended for players to treat plant shape as a long lasting effect that can be used for an entire dungeon? Or is it intended to be more an extremely powerful but shorter usage effect to defeat bosses? Because if its intended to be used to tackle high end bosses, whereas regular shape shifting covers regular usage and fighting, then not being able to fit through doors isn't really a problem with the way it's intended (although a shorter duration would communicate that better). If it is intended for long usage, fitting through areas is clearly a problem.
Yes, it's a problem.

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Hazard
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Re: Plant shape

Post by Hazard » Sat May 28, 2022 7:02 pm

I tried out plant shape.

Love it. Absolutely love it. So much better than dragonshape for feeling druidy.

Gotta admit, I was expecting a treant form to be one of them, but I have no complaints!! Especially with these really cute mushrooms.
And I actually feel like these forms are useful, unlike dragonshape which ... just sucked apart from AC.

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