Arcane Flux for Sorcerer

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Just so we are clear, a div dip sorceror pushing for ac doesn't reach 50s. It reaches high 60s almost 70 territory. I can already hit 60s on a 27/3 wizard.

Do you have some more explicit build-outs to back that up?

Ive demontrastred various mages ac things in another discussion.

lets start with a shadow mage 23 mage 4 Shadow dancer, 3 ranger (you bump your wizard 20 to epic and trade pre bonus feat for evasion and still have same cl and epic feat count as a 27/3

lets assume base dex 14 full buffed for 26 dex. This is a humble non extreme ac approach too

base 10
armor of imolation + dex mod = 9 ac
EMA = 20 ac
mage armor 1
dodge boots 1
tumble 6
haste 4
greensteel shield 5 ac

has 51 ac

Don't want to be a shadowmage or have 5% failure arcane?

do 26 wiz 4 monk like yee old 26 wiz 4 bard and trade pre epic feat for evasion

base 10
wis 8
Dex 8
tumble 6
EMA 20
mage armor 1
doddge 1
haste 4
= 58

Both these numbers could be pushed higher if you decided to sacrifice your other stats a bit more. It shuld nto bee to hard to see 60 on a plain none palemaster mage.

On dive sorceror you can do the same shadowmage dip trip for full tumble ac if that 3 extra ac doesnt matter. But you can also just do something liek armor of immolation + shadow shield+ shield + mage armor+ dodge boots+ divine shield + haste+ plus dex mod, etc.

[TroubledWaters]

Yeah, 90% of the arcane spell list consists of spells that are either DC based CC effects or direct damage spells that deal superficial damage.
Even the oh-so-dreaded evo combo falls short in a hp 500+ meta. This puts the arcanist kit into a one trick pony place where even then their one and only PvP gimmick isn't good enough.

This is a really important point that I think a lot of people forget. Gear is better now and it's way easier to hit 500+ HP, even on a rogue, than it was in the past. This really hurts arcane casters who haven't been able to make DCs work in years and now can't even rely on hellball/gruin to get a target down to badly wounded.

Lately, wizards seem to be getting some help through cookies to offset their decreased power, like a +7 premo, increased DCs, and now Arcane Flux. Sorcerer just seems to be forgotten.

[Scraps]

I know this probably isn't what you'd like to hear, but it was a deliberate decision to exclude sorcerers from Arcane Flux, mostly because they're spontaneous casters and already have a ton of additional spell slots and offensive capabilities compared to wizards

I still don't quite understand this reasoning.

Sorcerers are very powerful in PvP. But arcane flux has nothing to do with that. It'd almost entirely be a PvE buff, which Sorcerers are in no way dominant in. There's a very good reason Sorcerers are among the least played classes on the server, as we consistently
see through the player censuses on these very forums.

[Paint]

The reason I don't play a sorcerer right now is because why the hell would I play a sorcerer when Shaman is so much more fun to play and has so much more versatility? Almost anything a sorcerer can achieve, a shaman can achieve in one shade or another, and it can do it in a way that's more fun. Also shamans get more spells known for some reason.

Point is, sorc sucks.

Sorc sucks not because it's weak -- it isn't. Sorc sucks because compared to other caster alternatives, it's boring. And yeah, that does matter. Nobody wants to play something that's boring when they could play something that's fun instead.

With the advent of the Invoker classes, Sorc is even worse off, because the things that Shaman can't do are now covered by a class that is, you guessed it, more interesting to play than Sorc.

Sorc needs an identity and a reason to exist. Because right now, it doesn't have either.

[-XXX-]

Thing to note regarding the IGMS spam (which is arguably the main reason why people claim that sorcerers are powerful) - with the recent update to the shield spell, it's become weaker in practice*.

Anyone can get 1/- force damage now, which might not seem like much, but each IGMS hits the target with 10 missiles, so 10 damage gets shaved off each IGMS cast. Shield is no. 26 on the breach list, which makes it difficult to remove and anyone can use it to lower the dmg output of evo combos used against their characters by cca. 30-40 dmg.


*even if the immediate reaction might lead to a different conclusion as abjurers can now be damaged by it.

[evilkittenofdoom]

With the inflated saves and health totals of players any more, casters suffer greatly in PvP without very specific techniques (which are subsequently countered by other specific counterplay).

Ironically, spontaneous casters get the shaft across all their respective classes simply due to sheer inflexibility. Immense flexibility in the short term, but they're locked rigidly in the long term, since they can't change their spells known at all except on leveling. This is admittedly also true in proper D&D, but at least they also get various perks that set them apart beyond more spells slots per day and spontaneous casting.

I'd also like to see a set of new feats for spontaneous casters, Extra Spell Known I - IX, allowing them to gain an extra spell known of the appropriate spell level.

All that said, on topic here... Sorcerer needs a buff, plain and simple. Wizard gets a free spells on a cooldown if they're a specialist, among a variety of other benefits, and Sorcerer gets... a few extra base spell slots? Sure, that's big(ish) on the higher level spells, but honestly nothing I couldn't live without.

Arcane Flux? I don't think that's preferable for Sorcerer. "Bloodlines?" I could definitely get behind that.

[Ork]

Consider the potion nerfs have made this less of an issue than before. Direct damage spells could use a little buff, but we've got to be careful of going overboard since most can only down 4-5 heal pots.

[-XXX-]

I'll likely be stating the obvious here, but the most awkward thing about direct damage spells is that the maximize and empower spell feats exist.
As a result the base lower lvl spell has to be kept from scaling too much, because then there's the risk of its empowered/maximized version drawn from a higher spell level slot (where it's often not even wanted/needed) becoming too powerful.

This might be a hot take, but I wonder if removing the maximize and empower feats might be helpful here in the long run.
With these feats out of the way there'd likely be no issues with spells like fireball scaling all the way with CL up to 30d6 for example.

[Scylon]

If the goal here is to keep casters like wizard and sorc constantly casting spells, I don't see any reason why they can't have flux. Otherwise in PvE they are just standing behind their summons still it is time for a boss fight.

Well, they used to stand behind the summons, now they just die.