Rewards Lock

[Zavandar]

I like Arelith not being a zoo.

Maybe I imagined it but I think that was once the vision for the server, too.

[Hazard]

I think it might be best for all us old heads to mentally shift from old Arelith dynamics to new. What we have now is basically any 5E setting. Plenty of humans, but a large mix of exotic “others”. I think the old thoughts of “by god it’s a tiefling, get the pitchforks!” is dead and gone. Instead, what we have now are half-giant politicians, tiefling shopkeepers, and shadovar snake-oil merchants. It’s different. The old lines of medieval-esque revoltions from seeing an “other” is gone. If that threatens your immersion, buck up or back out I guess.

Sounds about right.

[Royal Blood]

...I have no issue with the current system except that I rather not receive any award at all if I roll normal or minor. I dont really like this part. If there was a toggle command that simply says "if you roll a lvl 26+ character and get a Normal award, you get nothing. If you roll a lvl 21+ character and get minor award, you get nothing." that I can switch on/off... That would be nice.

That would defeat the entire purpose of this change, put bluntly. The issue isn't to stop a flood of low level rewards, the issue is to stop a constant stream of characters whose sole purpose is to be rolled. Allowing us to bypass the cooldown undermines the entire system to the point where it may as well not be there.

As a long time player of Arelith, I've noticed since returning to Arelith in EE that the dynamic of low levels has completely changed. Instead of stopping to talk and make meaningful connections, Writs and overall higher XP gains have encouraged players to aggressively level up and forget to stop and smell the roses. I think that with the "rush" to roll a character being disabled, hopefully people will learn to slow down rather than constantly pump out new characters.

That said, in all honesty I've never even wanted a reward anyway. The minor and normals are okay, the Major and Greaters are interesting, but I'm too attached to my gifts to want a high ECL race. I've played primarily humans and goblins for a long time and honestly there's little you can't do between the two them (and really almost all of it can be done with humans. Goblins are an acquired taste, as I'm aware).

Your imagination is the only thing stopping you. Virtually any concept can be adapted into an available "free" race.

(Disclaimer : The highest level I've ever had pre EE was 9. Post EE is still only 14. I've never even had the luxury to roll a character, but I doubt I would want to even if I could as a result. I still am just not interested in any of the rewards)

Since I've played here before Writs the aggressive leveling was always a thing. What Writs does is allow people to aggressively level in more than one place! Like, Circle Grinding was habitual before writs. I saw it very often. Any place that had good XP rewards with relatively light challenge is circle ground into the dirt constantly. I haaaaated leveling because that's all you could find. UD it was like Grimlocks. You just go in circles for hours. On the surface, it was Sibayad orcs. Around and around and around we go with objectiveless agenda other than XP Farming.

I am not an aggressive leveler - but when I /did/ want to level it felt like this was the only option.

I love the writs :3

So, IMO Writs or not circle grinding is a thing. I like the idea of the reward lock, but it personally doesn't affect me much as I'm a slow leveler anyways. But for those just churning out characters to get a reward for a meta build or something unique idk that wasn't what the server is for in the first place.

Regarding other posts: I am sorta against everyone being super unique. I think it takes away from the climate I guess. If everyone is unique, no ones unique, and the charm, intrigue, and value of the 'rare' races is reduced to meme rp and min/max stat builds.

[Zavandar]

[Atlus]

I think it might be best for all us old heads to mentally shift from old Arelith dynamics to new. What we have now is basically any 5E setting. Plenty of humans, but a large mix of exotic “others”. I think the old thoughts of “by god it’s a tiefling, get the pitchforks!” is dead and gone. Instead, what we have now are half-giant politicians, tiefling shopkeepers, and shadovar snake-oil merchants. It’s different. The old lines of medieval-esque revoltions from seeing an “other” is gone. If that threatens your immersion, buck up or back out I guess.

The longer this server goes on, the more difficult it's going to become to argue against this as tabletops openly embrace non-standard races.

Ultimately, the player characters are supposed to be the outliers and represent the exotic in career, personality, and sometimes species.

[-XXX-]

IDK, this all seems moot anyway as it's been said that this was only a temporary measure.
We'll be all wiser once we see what the team is brewing for the new award system.

[Hazard]

IDK, this all seems moot anyway as it's been said that this was only a temporary measure.
We'll be all wiser once we see what the team is brewing for the new award system.

I will never be wiser.

[Xerah]

It’s insane to me that people are suggesting normal rewards aren’t worth anything. Get to level 16 and not have to worry about early stages is a super great option. Plus, there are numerous languages and races that a good/fun/different at that stage.

I’m seriously debating between a normal reward 16 and a giant. I’m not sure the giant adds that much to the roleplay idea.

Is it really insane tho? I have 5-6 normal awards in the bank, I really dont want more. I dont have anything unique and interesting to do with them that I havent done 90 times already.

I think I would very much at least like the option to NOT receive any award at all unless it's greater or major at this point because anything lower just puts me on a timer for no real gain for my Epic Sacrifice.

I have no issue with the current system except that I rather not receive any award at all if I roll normal or minor. I dont really like this part. If there was a toggle command that simply says "if you roll a lvl 26+ character and get a Normal award, you get nothing. If you roll a lvl 21+ character and get minor award, you get nothing." that I can switch on/off... That would be nice.

That defeats the whole purpose of the time gate. I hope it remains after the point buy system comes in.

If you have a bunch of banked normals, then use them?

I really don’t see a big issue with people playing their characters for 2 months. If you don’t like your character and can’t refund, then use another normal and tray again and roll when you can.

It’s also possible to play without a reward.

[Xerah]

I like Arelith not being a zoo.

Maybe I imagined it but I think that was once the vision for the server, too.

Same. I’d rather just have the 6 basic races

But I’ve learned just follow Ork’s advice and embrace the zoo.

[Ruzuke]

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but nothing is stopping you from creating interesting characters. You don't need to play an exotic planar-touched race to enjoy the game and have fun.

In fact, some of the most memorable characters in this server's history have been humans.

What makes you think I haven't played a few dozens non plane touched races over the years? In fact I have NEVER played a plane touched race in my time on Arelith. I have told dozens of stories with many other races. I have played on the surface, underdark, been a pirate, been a monster. Played politics, played a cleric, played a mercenary. I have had dozens of good stories with a variety of different characters and groups.

Playing a human, half orc, elf, gnome, dwarf, or Drow is not any better or noble then if I wish to play a plane touched character. It doesn't improve the potential storylines or make them any worse. Forcing me to play another character I don't want to get one I do adds nothing to the game. Your response did nothing to refute that.

As for your last comment of some of the most memorable characters played where humans. Did they want to play a human or did they want to play an elf and was told go play a human instead? I am guessing they had fun playing what they choose to play which makes that statement a strawman argument.

[Sincra]

I too prefer not seeing a rarer race every 3rd individual.
The high% chance of any connections you made being gone within a week to month was starting to make it very hard to care about other individuals.

[Ruzuke]

I too prefer not seeing a rarer race every 3rd individual.
The high% chance of any connections you made being gone within a week to month was starting to make it very hard to care about other individuals.

I played before writs and I also played after. When I played after writs during the speed leveling phase some took I noticed no difference. I made a character on Skal made a group of friends. We all kept in touch. That is a moot point however. This doesn't make people play characters longer. Sometimes I arrive and is empty. My typical experience is if I have a character in the level 20s is I am told to hit the road and get some adventurer rather than sit in town all day (where I am RPing with banked XP that allows me not to care about leveling).

My level 30 I haven't RPed in 6 months is still scheduled to be deleted late September. I am not logging on and RPing him and getting a new story until then. I am not making a new character to level either. In fact with the new token system with no details about I am not even using my greater award as it may be useful someday. I instead will be waiting 58 days to delete the next character.

Some people I know are making alts so they can play one character for RP purposes and delete a second the second character when the time limit passes for the rewards. So the question is how is this creating RP? I do not think I am unique the game is old and people who log on are here for RP. So every time I create a temp char to level and delete it... they make friends, the story I started in mind continues to grow and expand and then I keep them around. I have heard of others who do the same thing. The thing in common however is people started with playing what they wanted.

[AstralUniverse]

I dont know if you forget or intentionally dismiss the important part. If you do roll greater/major the timer kicks in and you cant roll for months. So I do not think my suggestion defeats the purpose. It would only reduce stagnation.

You say "stagnation." Many others of us say "durability."

I don't think it's a huge ask to say "invest two months in a character before rolling them." It encourages more thoughtful character design for more thoughtful roleplay if you've got a two month commitment...and frankly, it needn't even be a full two months. If you roll, get a normal, then take a week to think about your next concept before rolling them up, it's really not that long.

It also means that players who are locked from rolling awards because of an unfortunate stream of Normal rolls will just continue playing their washed up tiefling or rdd forever because they got no incentive to make new characters except once a month just to roll it and hope to not get normal... again. Whether or not it's a problem, we'll see I guess.

[Atlus]

I must admit I both feel and have seen from friends some contempt for this change as it may disproportionately result in people no longer valuing spending time creating new characters since the payoff rate is not even there anymore, and like some have mentioned it will result in high value class/race players to just continue squatting on those old characters without incentive to roll anything new.

It's too early to determine but it feels like heavily stacking so many high value rewards and then penalizing players for trying to attain them may, to put it bluntly, feel like an utter waste of time.

[Alyxnia]

I have played Arelith since it first launched, and not to toot my own horn but I think I've played some pretty interesting and compelling characters in that time who shook up the world a bit. I have also never gotten anything but a normal or minor award for these characters. I'm excited to see this new 'point-buy' system but I'm not very hopeful I will see it in a timely manner, and the lock on rolling characters making Normal rewards have the same cooldown as greater is just asinine. Boy howdy do I sure wish I could play something besides Wet Human or Spicy Human after I sacrificed a character that I played for months and months on end. I fail to see what problem the lock even 'solves'.

[msheeler]

I must admit I both feel and have seen from friends some contempt for this change as it may disproportionately result in people no longer valuing spending time creating new characters since the payoff rate is not even there anymore, and like some have mentioned it will result in high value class/race players to just continue squatting on those old characters without incentive to roll anything new.

I must confess I think I fall into this boat already since I have little to no desire to play any of the exotic races. For me, all of the rewards are already meh

[AstralUniverse]

I think it might be best for all us old heads to mentally shift from old Arelith dynamics to new. What we have now is basically any 5E setting. Plenty of humans, but a large mix of exotic “others”. I think the old thoughts of “by god it’s a tiefling, get the pitchforks!” is dead and gone. Instead, what we have now are half-giant politicians, tiefling shopkeepers, and shadovar snake-oil merchants. It’s different. The old lines of medieval-esque revoltions from seeing an “other” is gone. If that threatens your immersion, buck up or back out I guess.

Reminds me of the guardians of the galaxy setting, or startwars. Lots of weird looking creatures everywhere and it's all normal and good. I can make that adaptation to a degree. I think our playerbase is a lot more mature and capable of such a world than back 16+ years so about when everyone could play tieflings and half-cat half-dragon would walk through the cordor main street in a cat walk.

[Eyeliner]

Heck it would be really cool to see a bustling alignment agnostic planar city like Sigil added, even making it a starting zone for outsiders.

[Ork]

I like Arelith not being a zoo.

Maybe I imagined it but I think that was once the vision for the server, too.

Same. I’d rather just have the 6 basic races

But I’ve learned just follow Ork’s advice and embrace the zoo.

I vastly prefer the simple. I think good storytellers can use any medium to tell a convincing tale. You don't need to be a half-giant to roleplay a character with daddy issues for instance. I think having a zoo of characters distracts from the collaborative story than adds.

I can't really put a pin on when the server culture changed but each change (while individually interesting) adds a toll on the server culture.

[Eyeliner]

It's the nature of long running entertainment to start pretty grounded and gradually expand as the issues, books, series, whatever go on. Like for example Spider Man is a teenager rustling street thugs in the beginning and he ends up traveling the multiverse. It's just how this stuff almost always goes.

That said I'd love to see a back to basics version of Arelith as a different server, something with no crossover with Arelith Prime outside DM events and the focus is on low level traditional D&D adventures with standard races. Skal is a little bit of that of course but not the same with visits from epics and the option to leave the island.

[Aradin]

I like this change. It's a simple, elegant (temporary) solution to players grinding characters just to roll them.

The responses in this thread are very indicative that Arelith's playerbase is large enough that the devs are in an unenviable position of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". No matter which way you swing - encouraging lots of rolling or discouraging it - you'll have players that wished it were the other way. For my part I'm a fan of the change. Thumbs up to the dev who thought of the idea!

As far as "The Menagerie Of Many Strange Races On Arelith" discussion goes...
I think Ork hit it on the head. With each new playable race that gets added to Arelith, we get closer to a setting where "when everyone's special, no one is" (perfect quote Zavander!). But is that a bad thing? Hard to say. It's just different than it used to be. Even in my few years on the server it's definitely shifted from low-mid fantasy to high fantasy. I say embrace it. I'm starting to think about my characters in different ways, opening my mind up to doing things that aren't as grounded as they used to be. If Arelith wants to be high fantasy, then my characters will shift to match that.

I empathize with people who want the low magic, low fantasy experience but Arelith just isn't the place for that. If folks are looking for that, The Dragon's Neck server is launching sometime in the next few months, and I'll be a Quest Master over there. Could be just what you're looking for!
https://www.dragonsneck.com/

[xanrael]

I suspect we will see a slew of new PCs of exotic races for the next few months but with the mechanics on rolling, character burnout, and a likely balancing pass it will slip back to more normal after that.

Though even with that said when I started here dragons were playable and we had quite a few fantastical races already allowed so it is not a big stretch for me. The people that focus on the fantastical races just have a wider variety now.

[MissEvelyn]

I think it might be best for all us old heads to mentally shift from old Arelith dynamics to new. What we have now is basically any 5E setting. Plenty of humans, but a large mix of exotic “others”. I think the old thoughts of “by god it’s a tiefling, get the pitchforks!” is dead and gone. Instead, what we have now are half-giant politicians, tiefling shopkeepers, and shadovar snake-oil merchants. It’s different. The old lines of medieval-esque revoltions from seeing an “other” is gone. If that threatens your immersion, buck up or back out I guess.

While that may be true on most of Arelith currently, the background of the race hasn't changed at all. See the wiki quote below.

Carrying the taint of Evil in their very souls, tieflings are persecuted and feared in most parts of Faerun.

"By gods it's a tiefling" with a pitchfork is very much a viable view to have on tieflings, and I find it rather disturbing that you would try to dissuade players from roleplaying tiefling hating and fearing characters.

Mechanics and features are being added in as inspiration from newer editions and games altogether, this is true. But us old timers stay because Arelith is the last bastion of 3.5 roleplay and culture. And I would hate to see that go just because people want to play a winged, half-dragon with celestial blood being the offspring of Asmodeus and a Solar.

The point is, Arelith very much has space for monster hatred that filters through to tieflings and other evil-leaning races. And it also has space for those who want to play exotic races, and that's fine. We can coexist alongside each other. But have one push the other out is neither productive nor enjoyable to anyone.

[Sundial]

I’m old school too. It took me time to get used to change. But, if a half-demon elf activates someone’s imagination in the way a human doesn’t, that’s just more colors for the palette. The role of the “old timer” is to mentor and encourage the creativity of newer players, not to enforce the law of the land.

[Ork]

"By gods it's a tiefling" with a pitchfork is very much a viable view to have on tieflings, and I find it rather disturbing that you would try to dissuade players from roleplaying tiefling hating and fearing characters.

There is no dissuasion, only acceptance. 10 years ago, you might spot a tiefling or a RDD's wings and galvanize the city to expel them from the city. This isn't our culture any more. If you attempt to do this now, you're met with persecution yourself for being revolted by a tiefling's presence. Say I'm wrong.

That's not to say you shouldn't still roleplay mistrust of a tiefling, but I think we're innundated with players that have a general apathy to that roleplay or disgust for racially-motivated conflict.