New Races Feedback

[Aroura]

I hate to be the one to start this thread but I really need some insight here...
Giants; Why do they need to be that good..?

Shadowvar is on par with humans and other races, and I personally love that. Its not OP, its there for cool roleplay and interesting concepts without feeling overpowered. The unique feel comes from the race as a whole and not the insane stats you can get from it. Love that
And I feel that way about most of the new additions, as well as old ones. Gloaming and Fey'ri? Amazing!
Kenku? Not to my taste but I know many people whom have been waiting years for that to be approved!
Hags? As a certified pagan lover and admirer of people getting high as hell in Salem, I'm saving up for a greater.

But Giants, it feels too OP.
Why is half-giant, a greater reward, infinately better than Firbolg which still sits on major? (I'm using the comparison as an exmaple just to provide perspective to my point)
Half-Giants get better con, less negatives to their stats, better immunities. In my small opinion, Firbolgs and Minotaurs have long since reigned supreme in the best races to make truly scary and intimidating barbarians, but giant leaves them in the dust in almost every way I can think of.
I feel like giant will draw in those who want big big numbers and a high murder count because of how insane they can be on certain builds. I imagine barbarian, hexblade, high investment fighters are all going to be dominating the half-giant scene as a reuslt of their DR and AB/damage. Being a large creature also gives them insane KD...
I love big crits and seeing people explode as much as the next degenerate, but- maybe this could be looked into a bit more? What do you guys think?

First time posting feedback, be gentle

[-XXX-]

They're ECL +3.
Think of them as humans with preselected major gifts.

[AstralUniverse]

Storm and Stone giants seem a tad overtuned in my opinion.

I think storm giant allows for standard warpriest build to have what is essentially +8 to useful stats and is human base race. This is A LOT of stats. No one cares about -2 dex.

Stone Giant screams EDR builds. 30 hexblade and 30 barb seem like the major abusers of this update but I'm looking specifically at hexblade. it allows IKD rolls of effectively -14 discipline to the target (-6 from hex, -4 from IKD and another -4 from large vs medium) so a caster is not going to remain on their feet against this while a melee build would need to chew through a fortified brickwall with 45-50% physical DI plus 9/- flat DR. Its not Major award even though it seems like the best race in the update.

That's my two cents.

[Aroura]

Storm and Stone giants seem a tad overtuned in my opinion.

I think storm giant allows for standard warpriest build to have what is essentially +8 to useful stats and is human base race. This is A LOT of stats. No one cares about -2 dex.

Stone Giant screams EDR builds. 30 hexblade and 30 barb seem like the major abusers of this update but I'm looking specifically at hexblade. it allows IKD rolls of effectively -14 discipline to the target (-6 from hex, -4 from IKD and another -4 from large vs medium) so a caster is not going to remain on their feet against this while a melee build would need to chew through a fortified brickwall with 45-50% physical DI plus 9/- flat DR. Its not Major award even though it seems like the best race in the update.

That's my two cents.

I agree, thank you for phrasing it in a way that I can't. Mechanics aren't something I can easily communicate

[Tempedius]

I will say they are all very solid. I think, looking past the phys di on stone for a second that fire is amazing. Great stats, the right elemental immunity, and they can fit a lot of builds really well. As for stone, I think the phys di is fine. They are going to eat a lot of elemental damage and spell damage in general, which is fairly common in pvp and later game pve. I hope we continue to see races along these sorts of lines as they are all interesting, and unique enough from each other that the giants aren't stepping on each other's toes too much. The same to the various races that Kalo made. I adore the shadovar human and can't say enough about how cool hag is both in the way it is implemented and just the flavor. Well done to both of you.

[Skibbles]

I think storm giant allows for standard warpriest build to have what is essentially +8 to useful stats and is human base race. This is A LOT of stats. No one cares about -2 dex.

Concerning.

I wonder if a good way to deal with this might be to make them soft bonuses instead of hard bonuses. That way they have a lower ceiling kind of like vampire.

[AstralUniverse]

I think storm giant allows for standard warpriest build to have what is essentially +8 to useful stats and is human base race. This is A LOT of stats. No one cares about -2 dex.

Concerning.

I wonder if a good way to deal with this might be to make them soft bonuses instead of hard bonuses. That way they have a lower ceiling kind of like vampire.

Umm... but then where's the Major Award here? It's worse than human if it's +3 ECL with only soft stats. I would simply dunk the dex by another -2 or remove the +2 constitution and the -2 dex. Turning it into +8 and -4 or +6 and no penalty makes sense to me.

[Skibbles]

I think storm giant allows for standard warpriest build to have what is essentially +8 to useful stats and is human base race. This is A LOT of stats. No one cares about -2 dex.

Concerning.

I wonder if a good way to deal with this might be to make them soft bonuses instead of hard bonuses. That way they have a lower ceiling kind of like vampire.

Umm... but then where's the Major Award here? It's worse than human if it's +3 ECL with only soft stats. I would simply dunk the dex by another -2 or remove the +2 constitution and the -2 dex. Turning it into +8 and -4 or +6 and no penalty makes sense to me.

I dunno. Good point. Easier gearing for a quad stat build is the best I can come up with.

I admit I spent much less time thinking of the full picture than you and was mostly shooting out food for thought.

[Itikar]

I really like shadovar, also because it has a sensible award requirement (the same as a regular human with the Loross award), as well interesting lore, features, and place in the server.

The other races seem fine, even if it would have been nicer if there was at least another that did not require either greater or major award.

I confess also that I really hoped this was finally the time that we got PC bugbears, so that saddened me a bit. I am very glad for the addition of hags, though, who are sufficiently monstrous, even though I would have enjoyed more monsters that could not disguise their monstrosity so easily.

I am more uncertain regarding half-giants, but I see merit in having more giant-themed rp. I am not too fond of the fact that their guild-hall is placed in Guldorand, and I would have preferred a better integration of fire, frost and especially stone half-giant in the Underdark instead. Another disappointment is the lack of a hill half-giant, which would probably have been good for a normal or minor award, thus granting access to the giant-themed roleplay to a wider number of players.

[Quidix]

Love the flavour of many of these new races, so first of all huge thank you to the team for the work!

Let’s talk about numbers. If we assume negative stats don’t matter (that much) as one typically builds around it:
+8 effective stats: Ogre, Fire, Stone, Storm
+6 effective stats: Minotaur, Firbolg, Cloud, Frost

Minotaur and Firbolg both get an extra feat, so therefore Cloud and Frost Half-Giants appear in line (there are some minor bonuses for each, but likely they are similar).

Ogre does get +2 AC instead of getting human cookies of 1 feat and skills - probably right. However, Ogre’s -2 Int is hard to build around, so one could consider them +6 or +7. This suggests Fire, Stone and Storm could do with a minor adjustment (reducing one of the bonuses by 1 or 2, possibly reducing stone to 10% physical).

Also, worth keeping in mind large races lose 1 AB, 1AC, 4 Hide/MS/Spot/Listen for those stronger IKDs.

Fey'ri is similar to the old Aasimar / Tiefling (ie ECL 0 with two +2 stats) - and should therefore likely be adjusted too (either by being +1 ECL or removing one of the +2s).

[stoneheart-]

My concern is that it isn't made clear what the fey'ri are. I hope that there is a prompt informing potential players that they are not "elven tieflings", they are a race of degenerate mutants created intentionally through demonic eugenics overseen by a house of fallen elves. The wiki does not have any information to this effect, so I hope the in-game race selection dialogue does; or if it does not, I hope adding a lore tidbit to them will be considered since they are actually a specific thing in FR lore.

[Kalopsia]

My concern is that it isn't made clear what the fey'ri are. I hope that there is a prompt informing potential players that they are not "elven tieflings", they are a race of degenerate mutants created intentionally through demonic eugenics overseen by a house of fallen elves. The wiki does not have any information to this effect, so I hope the in-game race selection dialogue does; or if it does not, I hope adding a lore tidbit to them will be considered since they are actually a specific thing in FR lore.

I'm happy to hear suggestions for their flavor text :)

[stoneheart-]

I'm happy to hear suggestions for their flavor text

I will gladly write something and then PM you.

[Mattamue]

Stone giant earthkin defender?

[Xerah]

My concern is that it isn't made clear what the fey'ri are. I hope that there is a prompt informing potential players that they are not "elven tieflings", they are a race of degenerate mutants created intentionally through demonic eugenics overseen by a house of fallen elves. The wiki does not have any information to this effect, so I hope the in-game race selection dialogue does; or if it does not, I hope adding a lore tidbit to them will be considered since they are actually a specific thing in FR lore.

I definitely find it odd for fey'ri to start on the surface, no? I always put them on par with drow in terms of common view of surfacer.

[Hunter548]

My concern is that it isn't made clear what the fey'ri are. I hope that there is a prompt informing potential players that they are not "elven tieflings", they are a race of degenerate mutants created intentionally through demonic eugenics overseen by a house of fallen elves. The wiki does not have any information to this effect, so I hope the in-game race selection dialogue does; or if it does not, I hope adding a lore tidbit to them will be considered since they are actually a specific thing in FR lore.

I definitely find it odd for fey'ri to start on the surface, no? I always put them on par with drow in terms of common view of surfacer.

Yuan ti is probably a better comparison. They're half-fiends, but able to conceal it with magic and similar measures. They sometimes work to corrupt other elves ‐ and might not even be all that fond of drow, given the history between drow and the sun elf houses that makes up the Feyri.

[Xerah]

Rught, makes sense. But on Arelith, I guess they can hide their wings, but they still look demonic since they can’t polymorph?

[Hunter548]

Rught, makes sense. But on Arelith, I guess they can hide their wings, but they still look demonic since they can’t polymorph?

Wings are the big tell in pnp as I recall; they look like sun elves otherwise.

[Kalopsia]

Rught, makes sense. But on Arelith, I guess they can hide their wings, but they still look demonic since they can’t polymorph?

I'd say hiding the wings could be considered a polymorph. The game just doesn't display other changes.
When examined, they appear as Sun Elves in most cases and I think them being a surface race makes for nice RP up there :)

[Itikar]

Don't send demon elves to the Underdark. Send there stone giants though, since, well, they live there.

Also about shadovar, do they get darkvision? I don't recall if they have it in tabletop, but it would make sense.

[Kalopsia]

Don't send demon elves to the Underdark. Send there stone giants though, since, well, they live there.

Also about shadovar, do they get darkvision? I don't recall if they have it in tabletop, but it would make sense.

They don't get it. I was surprised as well, but apparently that's a thing :D
(I was also surprised about Kenku being medium-sized, not small.)

[Eyeliner]

I confess also that I really hoped this was finally the time that we got PC bugbears,

Not sure I'd play one but that would be cool. I don't see why more common humanoid monsters couldn't be minor and normal awards for Anundor characters.

[CharmedRidge]

Personally I love the anime and Dark Souls direction Arelith is taking and I'm looking forward to more things being added like Great Bows, giant no-dachi, and radical stats. Can we have kitsune too? That'd be awesome!

[Whosdis]

My concern is that it isn't made clear what the fey'ri are. I hope that there is a prompt informing potential players that they are not "elven tieflings", they are a race of degenerate mutants created intentionally through demonic eugenics overseen by a house of fallen elves. The wiki does not have any information to this effect, so I hope the in-game race selection dialogue does; or if it does not, I hope adding a lore tidbit to them will be considered since they are actually a specific thing in FR lore.

I definitely find it odd for fey'ri to start on the surface, no? I always put them on par with drow in terms of common view of surfacer.

Yuan ti is probably a better comparison. They're half-fiends, but able to conceal it with magic and similar measures. They sometimes work to corrupt other elves ‐ and might not even be all that fond of drow, given the history between drow and the sun elf houses that makes up the Feyri.

Mixed bag: Sarya considered the Drow "degenerates" but considered their goals aligned in having common enemies with the surface Elves, although that might have been specifically the Vhaeraunites in Cormanthyr: I'll have to double check.

Well-played Fey'ri shouldnt be exposed unless people are cheesing it with dismissal and so on. My take on the matter is they're probably best on surface and can be driven to UD if exposed: Hypothetically supported, but through applications.

Anyway even if it won't be until the distant future, I'm hugely excited to make a Fey'ri on Arelith, absolutely my favorite race in the setting.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

My concern is that it isn't made clear what the fey'ri are. I hope that there is a prompt informing potential players that they are not "elven tieflings", they are a race of degenerate mutants created intentionally through demonic eugenics overseen by a house of fallen elves. The wiki does not have any information to this effect, so I hope the in-game race selection dialogue does; or if it does not, I hope adding a lore tidbit to them will be considered since they are actually a specific thing in FR lore.

I'm happy to hear suggestions for their flavor text

Here's the thing about this, and its a little foggy in relationship to arelith because there was this big hubub about making years progress outside of arelith when the time change came in, but as of 1372 there is only a handful of fey'ri freed from their centuries long prison. They were released when the harpers laid siege on hellgate in 1369, the most famous being Sarya Diardrageth. She went on to release the rest of them from a prison beneath Myth Drannor in 1374, planning to make the ruined city their base of operations. This is actually what inspired the elven return to that part of the world in the same year, they had some fey'ri asses to kick.

That being said, they were first created during the crown wars. The deep wells (I think?) is supposed to have ties to one of the houses of the crown wars. Figuring out something for Arelith should be pretty trivial from that.

As for their personality type, they were power hungry and authoritarian in culture, and saw themselves as the rightful rulers of the elves and the world beyond that because duh, elves are the master race. They were extremely vindictive and jealous of sun elves to the point of obsession, because they were everything they wanted to be themselves. A perfect Fey'ri concept for 3.5 for example would be one that uses its shapeshifting abilities to blend in with elves, in particular Sun elves, in order to slowly but surely manipulate them into corruption. Essentially drag those you see as better than you down to your level to feel better about yourself.

Unfortunately, now that we are in fifth edition heading quickly toward sixth edition, they have been free for over a century and have become part of the forgotten realms zoo. And honestly, I can't speak much on what they are in 5ed, but I suspect that more often than not that's where folks are going to draw their influence from.

I'm sure if Red Ropes were here, he would have all sorts of corrections to what I wrote above and I'm sure he would be right, but I hope I at least gave you a good starting point on where to look.