Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

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Aeribelle
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Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Aeribelle » Mon Aug 08, 2022 5:36 pm

Figured I'd Start a thread for feedback and such on the new Whaling/Sea Creature System!

Few issues of Note thus far!

1) Monsters offer "Food Cargo". Great! However it suffers from the same issue as "Salvage Cargo" in the Undersea exploration systems... unless you are a pirate, there is nothing you can do with this Cargo. Dockmasters won't purchase it, nor is there any means to sell/donate to the City.

1.5) "Food Cargo" Comes before Treasure when its putting it in your Cargo Hold. So if its a large monster, it will often fill up your Cargo Space, and you lose out on your Treasure Cargo. Would just make sense to load the more valuable cargo units first.

1.75) In regards to the two above points... since we can't do anything with the Non-Treasure Cargo unless your a pirate, it'd be nice to have separate Cargo dumping. Currently you can only dump your entire cargo hold. However, you can then Claim the Cargo you want to pick back up... but it'd be nice to have option not to dump the Treasure Cargo and have to then pick it back up.

2) Several times I had smaller Creatures doing "-1" damage. Didn't pay attention if this actually -healed- the ship or not, but imagine not something that should be occurring regardless.

Think thats all I have so far! Rather enjoy it, both thematically and visually! Awesome Job!
Angelina Janelle Evelaar, Crippled Aasmir Bardess, Trade Ministry of Cordor
"Raphillianna", Crazed "Melanti" Sea Elf Bardess (Retired)
Ayleese Hildherte, Firbolg Seer, Chancellor's Aide (Retired)

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ActionReplay
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by ActionReplay » Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:55 pm

Good points, will look into it. And no, won't heal your ship, but will fix that text prompt. Its your ship's damage reduction kicking in.

I forgot, but can't you sell cargo at the Amnian Trade Post?

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DeepWebAssassin
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by DeepWebAssassin » Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:42 pm

I was on a crew that gave the Amnian outpost a try today -- we had a non-pirate try to sell to the dockmaster and he said something along the lines of "you do not have a trade writ."

We were able to sell treasure cargo there as normal, but our food could only be sold at Sencliff.

(Very cool system, btw. Been having tons of fun with it so far.)

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Aeribelle
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Aeribelle » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:17 am

Interaction at the Trading Post is you can only Buy (non treasure)Cargo to be Delivered in the process of a Trade Writ to deliver back to a City. Dock Masters will only buy this Cargo if you have said Writ.

And last checked, this functionality at least won't in terms of the Trade Writ doesn't function to adjust the trade stock levels of the Cordor City (this was the only City I had access to testing when I was testing). Pirates can make use of stolen Cargo in this system, which is what will let them sell acquired goods 'without a writ'.

Realistically, to keep the functionality of the Trade Writ system worthwhile if and when it is fixed... I'd suggest allowing Cargo to be sold at the Trading Post for a "full value", or perhaps at the standard docks for a "reduced amount". Unlicensed Cargo at a proper port would have to be put through Amnish Taxation after all, and we know Amn likes their taxes!

And don't allow sold unlicensed Cargo to affect city stockpiles, it'd have to go back through the Amn supply chains, not the city.
Angelina Janelle Evelaar, Crippled Aasmir Bardess, Trade Ministry of Cordor
"Raphillianna", Crazed "Melanti" Sea Elf Bardess (Retired)
Ayleese Hildherte, Firbolg Seer, Chancellor's Aide (Retired)

Wethrinea
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Wethrinea » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:01 am

The addition of sea creatures is fantastic, and I can finally live out my dream of RP'ing a proper whaler with a scruffy beard and tobacco pipe. Awesome!

After hunting some sea creatures the problem is indeed what to do with all that food cargo. As a non-pirate the only option is to sail to port, sell treasures, sail out again and dump the food in the oceans, which seems like a terrible waste IC.

Since we have a settlement system to begin with with wood, stone and food being resources that never really seem to run out, it would seem top me that making food disappear from those stockpiles faster would make for more options for whalers if you could sell your catch to the dockmaster. It would also give law-abiding sailors more reason to sail than hunt pirates and corsairs.
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Rei_Jin » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:05 pm

The sea creature “flavour” is very cool, and appreciated, but (a) the food drop is not just pointless, it detracts from sailing as it is as you need to dump it to be able to have hold space for loot, and (b) it feels like the sea creatures being implemented has reduced the frequency of ships appearing, which (if so) means that it takes longer to find ships to attack.

If these two things could be tweaked (an option to not collect food in ship menu? An option to dump it? And sea creatures to not impact the spawn rate of ships?) it would be much appreciated.

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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Yvesza » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:34 pm

Honestly I really like the addition but I'd really appreciate an option to disable collecting meat into the hold, it's not very valuable and difficult to offload for a majority of PC's. Even with the potential to sell it at the trade post now you can't really hunt unless you're already in that area because you'll take on so much meat that you'll start losing out on treasure.

Also it's not immediately obvious but melee PC's aren't really able to do much during these encounters which can feel a bit rough, the AC of the enemies that you pull up is high enough that you can't realistically just pull out a bow and contribute.

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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by ActionReplay » Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:06 pm

I'll be honest, the food cargo drop was a last minute thing I added in just for thematic purposes. You can drop it specifically now from the -ships command, but understand the frustration. I can remove it entirely.

I can opt to lower the AC of all creatures and instead boost their HP, so meleers get their target practice as well.

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Rei_Jin
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Rei_Jin » Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:46 am

Personally, I don’t mind the sea creatures as they are, in terms of combat. That’s what gonnes are for!

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Dreams
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Dreams » Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:14 am

I really like the Sea Creatures. Hunting for them is great, but they're really not so dangerous. If you have a few people on board ready to shoot them or cast spells (commonly at the moment there's enough warlocks/elementalists around to handle anything) then you're basically golden with no risk.

I would love to see sea monsters that are almost impossible to kill, world-boss tier monstrosities from the deep that you simply can't handle without having the top crew, a good understanding of sailing, decent ship mounted weapons, a decent ship, and so on. Monsters that you have to run from or are known for sinking countless ships... That's what really builds fear! The legends grow as sailors spread stories of "I managed to make it back to shore, some of my crew weren't so lucky..."

Wethrinea
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Wethrinea » Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:19 am

ActionReplay wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:06 pm
I'll be honest, the food cargo drop was a last minute thing I added in just for thematic purposes. You can drop it specifically now from the -ships command, but understand the frustration. I can remove it entirely.
For most players the food cargo may be an unwanted addition, but it is really thematic to be able to go to sea and hunt for food in large quantities. So while I welcome an option to not harvest food and/or dump it, I would much rather like it see more utility for non-pirate players.

Before the update, the sailing system essentially catered to two (or three) kinds of sailor types: Pirates and Pirate-Hunters (and explorers/treasure hunters). This update enables a third (which one could call whalers or sea monster hunters), alternatively expanding the explorer/treasure hunter niche. And hauling in food to feed the sprawling cities is a very nice thematic addition to that.

The problem is just that there is not many options for selling that food that makes both RP sense and cost-efficient use of the cargo hold. If that could be addressed then the food collection should stay, at least as an option.

A few possible suggestions:
1) Have all dock masters accept food like they do treasures, at a reasonable price. This is fresh and exotic meat after all.
2) Have the Amnians attempt to monopolize the trade of sea-monster meat, giving you the option of either going to that trade post, or some illicit whaling competitor who will offer higher prices, but which will also give the navies of Cordor (and Guldorand I guess) cause to stop you, being in thrall to Amn as they are.
3) Make food scarcer for settlements and such resources gathering more impactful. Encourage competition among the settlements to have whalers deliver food to them rather than competing cities.

None of those things might be feasible, I am just excited of the possibilities this update opens for in terms of sea-based character concepts.
Ivar Ferdamann - Mercenary turned Marshall

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Dreams
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Dreams » Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:47 am

It's probably worth making the sea creatures unable to drop loot, since people seem to be able to glitch themselves onto the sea floor and melee-combat with them.

Sidhel
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Sidhel » Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:21 am

Compared to fishing and pirate hunting, the rewards are very low, without even including the rare drops from ships or treasure sharks.

The ability to sell food cargo is nice for non-pirates, but I feel like the ratios of purchase cost and drop rates is pretty out of sync right now. Some creatures drop as much as 100 crates of food, but the value of 100 crates of food is less than the value of one treasure. (~400gp) Selling the ammunition and wood you might use for repairs provides more income than shooting a whale.

Self-sustained ammunition for people who might not want to hunt ships still sort of have to hunt ships to keep up with the ammunition demand for sea monster hunting. Since the value of all ammunition was nerfed a while back, there's the option to make crafting ammunition a bit more doable, since 250-350 crafting points investment is hugely heavy compared to just being able to loot more than you need from T1 ships.

Since the only place you can sell as a non pirate is the trading outpost, It encourages hovering the station to sell. Since most smaller ships fill up after 1-3 encounters and larger ships 3-4.

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Flower Power
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Flower Power » Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:40 pm

Word on the street is that non-pirates get a grand total of 4 gold per cargo unit of food at the tradepost.

With payouts like that, you may as well just remove the food cargo drops entirely and just up the amount of meat, hides and oil you harvest slightly.
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Aeribelle
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Re: Feedback on new Sea Creature System!

Post by Aeribelle » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:31 am

Not sure if its possible and I've not had the option with larger ships yet, but a cool Idea I thought to solve the 'melee' folk issue, would be to have landing multiple hooks into it pulls it closer to the deck, so that melee characters -could- do something, but requires it to be pulled in close.
Angelina Janelle Evelaar, Crippled Aasmir Bardess, Trade Ministry of Cordor
"Raphillianna", Crazed "Melanti" Sea Elf Bardess (Retired)
Ayleese Hildherte, Firbolg Seer, Chancellor's Aide (Retired)

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