Lunara and Major Awards

[TimeAdept]

A thought I haven't seen brought up is how weapon feats will be addressed. With how the weapon-devouring feature for the weapon sounds, it will, for an example, devour a scythe and become a scythe rather than a longsword that has a scythe's stats.

Will the owner be given every weapon proficiency and every weapon foci (including epic)?

The feature is clearly meant just so that the PC doesn't have to worry about carrying Lunara and "the actual weapon they use", so that Lunara can just be their masterly damask scimtar or their moonblade or whatever. It's not about letting the PC change whatever weapon they want on a whim.

[The GrumpyCat]

If DMs will refuse to acknowledge a player RPing their own sentient weapon or item, something that has been done for years and years on the server, then "No sentient items" should be codified into a server rule.

We do have a rule. WYSIWYG.

[TimeAdept]

If I create an item, name it appropriately, biographic it appropriately, and speak for it appropriately, and can show this item to other people, am I not abiding by WYSIWYG?

I do not believe wysiwyg covers "no sentient items", and I don't think I'm alone here. If the DMs want to codify this as a rule, fine, but I think it's a misconception to state that the populace at large is on the same page as this ruling, until now when it was explicitly stated, especially because it has been contradicted in the past.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

WYSWYG is weird on this server. It actually means "you can claim whatever you want but if it's not mechanically enforced, players don't need to respect it."

I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily, it means this server has very robust and in depth magic RP where people claim all sorts of stuff is happening. People rename fixtures to be all sorts of things.

[Xerah]

The big difference would be that the sword would actually have a response rather than the response coming from the character, which is where the WYSWYG comes in.

[magistrasa]

Typically sentient weapons have a telepathic connection that's limited to their wielders, which makes the fact that Lunara can talk out loud a bit unusual as-is. I think. I could be wrong.

[Eters]

In my opinion the idea is fine. And I would've loved to apply for it did I have all the prerequisites to do so but I don't, and I feel like many are on the same boat right now.

Personally I feel like for a concept such as this, it should be application only rather than gated behind an award due to the way it affects the narrative around it, and the nature of the item itself.

There are expectations from the players that apply for this, on top of luck (having a 5%), availability of a new concept (new character) and little mechanical advantages to having it, with the burden of roleplaying 2 characters and having it all work together without being overbearing about it (there is only so much 'hey look at me I have a sentient sword' you can do.)

To gate it behind the 5% and behind a new character is probably what discourages most and makes many applications not seem eligible for the concept. Its already hard enough to make a new, fresh and interesting character to begin with, let alone make it interesting enough from the get go to truly shine and make the weapon they wield shine with it. It usually takes months to finally iron out all your character's perks and quirks, so most people's new character eer on the side of 'vagueness' until they find their niche.

Thus the worry that any new character's development narratively will be strictly tied to the sword, resulting in an empty character when the sword is not involved. Because as a new character, the cool tech in his hands will certainly draw all the attention, making the weapon outshine the wielder.

While if you allow an already established character to wield the sword, they can allow the sword to grow narratively without relaying on it being the only point of interest. After all, the character is already established even without the sword, thus allowing a healthy development for the weapon's narrative.

Then comes the question of passing it on, will that also be gated by application 5% new character ideal? What if one wielder wishes to pass it to another pre-established character due to RP narrative and merit? Would that mean that only the original wielder must sacrifice a 5% to get it?

[Liareth]

I guess my main question is, what shape do you, as the primary developer, imagine this new award will take as it enters the world?

Honestly? No idea. That's why it's an experiment. It's also why Lunara's personality is more of a blank slate / collection of character traits that anything firmly defined. I don't really know where it will go. Her success or failure as an experiment will hinge on the player who gets her.

Some ideas:

• Outwardly paladin who wields her in the open. Roleplays her war cries in each battle, building up a fearsome reputation with the evil part of the server. Roleplays her sadness when she's forced to execute a criminal who isn't fighting back. Forges such a strong reputation that years later, people still speak about what she and Lunara achieved together.
• Chaotic netural rogue wields her and keeps her hidden. Lunara, starting as a naive, blank slate, is slowly corrupted by the rogue's thievery and starts to encourage the rogue to do more of it, eventually leading to a murder in a robbery-gone-wrong. They both enable each other as they descend further into evil, until the rogue alignment shifts to chaotic evil, Lunara is glowing red all the time, and there's no hiding her even if the rogue wanted to, because at this point her lust for blood is too great.
• Chaotic good drow wields Lunara. In a world of complete evil, Lunara is the drow's only anchor to good. Together they strive to do the best they can within Andunor - freeing a prisoner here, warning the surface there, trying to subtly influence things towards good. Lunara helps the drow to build a reputation on the surface, and they eventually find apprehensive welcome there.

Is the sword going to be balanced in line with other weapons on Arelith?

She consumes weapons for her stats, so she has no balance implications.

Also as an aside - gating this behind a 5% doesn't make much sense to me.

You're preaching to the choir! But my opinion is even more extreme. I think all special races should be gated behind application only and awards should not exist in their current form. Maybe as a system to apply small, cosmetic tweaks to make your character stand out more. However! The award system is what we have which is why Lunara costs one. I wouldn't be against dropping her to a greater though, at least her first iteration, to encourage more good players to apply.

[The GrumpyCat]

You're preaching to the choir! But my opinion is even more extreme. I think all special races should be gated behind application only and awards should not exist in their current form. Maybe as a system to apply small, cosmetic tweaks to make your character stand out more. However! The award system is what we have which is why Lunara costs one. I wouldn't be against dropping her to a greater though, at least her first iteration, to encourage more good players to apply.

Honestly my main concern about removing ALL reward requirements from the concept, is that we'd get too many applications!

[The GrumpyCat]

Honestly my main concern about removing ALL award requirements is we'd get too many applications!

[magistrasa]

Chaotic good drow wields Lunara.

More evidence that this shouldn't be a reward, since this is impossible due to the fact that good-aligned Drow are a reward themselves!

It being considered as a greater reward still puts it firmly out of my reach, as much as I'd like to be interested in applying. But Aesop's fables taught me that the best coping mechanism when faced with the unattainable is scorn and indifference. I didn't want to play with Lunara anyways - you can keep your sour grapes!

[magistrasa]

Her success or failure as an experiment will hinge on the player who gets her.

I think with this in mind it's at the very least a good idea to extend the application deadline. Like was mentioned in the thread already, someone interested in playing doesn't even have the time to attempt to roll more than one character in hopes for the award. The rollout of this award is so bound to random chance and dumb luck that it's shooting itself in the foot if good storytellers are who you want to appeal to.

I'd go so far as to suggest that the first iteration requires no award, even if future iterations do. Let the first Lunara set a tone that invested storytellers will be ready follow in the future.

[With Darkness and Silence]

I can actually agree I don't care for the creativity limitations of awards. Any day of the week I can roll up a dnd character with a sentient weapon, and hey why not be a drow blood elf (there can be mechanical implications for this depending on ed or PF.)

Offhand I'd actually prefer a tiefling with a sentient weapon. Oh, but I would be concept limited to non-good, which is a completely random and arbitrary requirement placed upon Aasimar and tieflings that have absolutely no meaning nor actual purchase on the DND world.

Playing DND isn't a creativity limited experience.


All that said, I operate within the extremely limited boundaries of Arelith.

Make it a greater and you'll see an application from me.

[Edens_Fall]

I guess my main question is, what shape do you, as the primary developer, imagine this new award will take as it enters the world?

Honestly? No idea. That's why it's an experiment. It's also why Lunara's personality is more of a blank slate / collection of character traits that anything firmly defined. I don't really know where it will go. Her success or failure as an experiment will hinge on the player who gets her.

Some ideas:

• Outwardly paladin who wields her in the open. Roleplays her war cries in each battle, building up a fearsome reputation with the evil part of the server. Roleplays her sadness when she's forced to execute a criminal who isn't fighting back. Forges such a strong reputation that years later, people still speak about what she and Lunara achieved together.
• Chaotic netural rogue wields her and keeps her hidden. Lunara, starting as a naive, blank slate, is slowly corrupted by the rogue's thievery and starts to encourage the rogue to do more of it, eventually leading to a murder in a robbery-gone-wrong. They both enable each other as they descend further into evil, until the rogue alignment shifts to chaotic evil, Lunara is glowing red all the time, and there's no hiding her even if the rogue wanted to, because at this point her lust for blood is too great.
• Chaotic good drow wields Lunara. In a world of complete evil, Lunara is the drow's only anchor to good. Together they strive to do the best they can within Andunor - freeing a prisoner here, warning the surface there, trying to subtly influence things towards good. Lunara helps the drow to build a reputation on the surface, and they eventually find apprehensive welcome there.

Is the sword restricted to Good & Neutral alignments only or can Evil PCs apply for the sword as well?

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

A thought I haven't seen brought up is how weapon feats will be addressed. With how the weapon-devouring feature for the weapon sounds, it will, for an example, devour a scythe and become a scythe rather than a longsword that has a scythe's stats.

Will the owner be given every weapon proficiency and every weapon foci (including epic)?

As awesome as I would like having feats abr weapons of choice in "lunara" it still be a mechanical benefit and they are trying to avoid that. The sword adapting to your fighting style versus you adapting to it makes a lot of sense.

I do hope though that it can keep the previous owners weapon stats until you as a player decide to consume a new weapon with it. Like maybe a story was adapting to it instead or it took longer to adapt to you because you were so weak at first but you refused to change your ways so it eventually gave it and adapted to yoy.

[Za-Lord~s Guard]

For myself at least, the described personality of Lunara is what leaves me uninterested. While I'm sure others would love a jealous sword gf, I would prefer something less pre-defined to shape according to my character and their experiences.

Or a sword based on Excalibur as depicted in Soul Eater.

[magistrasa]

See, I like the personality of the weapon, because I feel like you could easily draw out a meaningful story with it. Rather than characterizing it as "jealousy," you can emphasize the root behind the jealousy: Insecurity, and emotional neediness. What would cause a sword to adopt those personality traits? There's gotta be some sort of tragedy to the character that informs this jealous behavior, and that's a concept that's fun to play with. How many times has she been overlooked and abandoned before she fell into your character's hands? What sort of hopelessness and loneliness must she have endured, living and sentient yet only ever a thing to be owned? Perhaps she is a dangerous weapon, but how vulnerable is she, really? And what kind of a character can you then craft to compliment these concepts?

Anyways, it probably sucks and is lame and a bad idea and I'll never play with it and I don't even care! I-it's not like I even want this award, b-baka!

[Party in the forest at midnight]

See, I like the personality of the weapon, because I feel like you could easily draw out a meaningful story with it. Rather than characterizing it as "jealousy," you can emphasize the root behind the jealousy: Insecurity, and emotional neediness.

I avoid player characters like this even because I find it extremely grating and obnoxious, I think it's fine to critique the personality of a rare item.

But I also think everyone who doesn't like the personality should give examples and explain more in depth what sort of personality they'd prefer instead. It's why I gave an example of a magic item I'd like to see. I've never played Soul Caliber so I have no idea what that reference is. Expand on it more, describe an item.

I think there's a lot of cool stuff that could be done with the system and I hope different types of items will be explored in the future. Not every item is going to appeal to everyone, so let's give more ideas for new items that can exist in the future.

[satan]

Seems kinda tailored to a hexblade

[Nekonecro]

I've never played Soul Caliber so I have no idea what that reference is.

Soul Eater, it's an anime / manga about sentient weapons. The art style is pretty nifty

[perseid]

It doesn't sound like there's a shortage of candidates so much as a small pool of qualified ones atm. But to throw my own two cents in, I just think it's a bad value which is something I care about if I'm a player who doesnt roll for rewards often (or even just a regular player given the gating now). The allusion to being expected to eventually pass the weapon on devalues Lunara a lot and imo this is a weakness of tying it to an award because the scarce nature of such an award is what makes the value consideration a factor at all.

[Cagus]

I have to say, I would prefer to see the energy and resources to go to projects (or improvements), that can enjoy more that one player.

[Xerah]

I have to say, I would prefer to see the energy and resources to go to projects (or improvements), that can enjoy more that one player.

Developers don't get paid to do what they do, so they do what's interesting/fun to them.

Additionally (sorry to be mean here), but if there is anyone who should be "allowed" to do something like this, it's Liareth who is part of a small team making the next NWN game patch (also for free) that every single NWN player will use. If anyone is doing anything that more than one player can enjoy, it's Liareth.

[Misericordus]

I think that whoever wins this sword is going to receive some interesting reactions from other esteemed members of this fine playerbase

lol

and not in the way that they expect

[Xerah]

Obviously, to get ahead of that, the person who uses this sword will make their account name DMsFavouritePlayer