Smashing Chests

[Felmilk]

Now imagine the title read by Nigel Thornberry and ban me.

I thought I'd get the thread started.

Smashing the chests was nice for characters that can't pick them open, but it did sort of take a lot of value away from having someone along who 'can' pick it open. I feel like it might also affect the economy quite a bit if everyone can get to the loot by just smashing it. Personally, even on characters who can't open them, not being able to pick them was never my biggest annoyance. To me, it's the infini-traps. Once a trap is set off, I get annoyed that it sticks around. Sometimes you get super lucky and a chest isn't even locked, and you go to open it and FWOOSH.

Not being able to smash chests obviously makes characters that can pick them open much more desirable, which I think is a good thing! I still think familiars shouldn't be able to do these things to the same extent as a proper rogue character, though. Especially with how many builds can fit a familiar in.

What I'd really like to see, if infini-traps are here to stay, and most chests will be locked. I think it would be cool if there was a 'chance' that when smashing the chest you still get 'some' items, maybe, sometimes. That way even the solo 8 int barbarian can get a chance at getting lucky and finding some goodies.

But overall, I much prefer the smashy = bent gold coins.

[Good Character]

I say let the smashing continue. Emphasize inifitraps, especially and specifically for dungeons meant for level 20+. Remove Disable and Set Trap from bards.

[Slapstick]

The thing that bugs me with the locks and traps is that it's all circumventable with rather basic enchanted gear. So it doesn't actually pose an interesting game mechanic to interact with, because the game mechanic you interact with is carrying 10 extra gear items and continuously switching back and forth. It's really just tedious af.

If I were to propose a "solution" or just spitball some ideas it would be to remove disable trap/open lock from the basin. Introduce a new consumable item called skeleton key that only works once or has 'x' charges. Crafted by artwork and smithing maybe. Rare but not too pricey materials, like silver and a few basic gems. Then if you don't have the skill you can buy your way through the problem, and rogues don't have to. Runic Skeleton Keys are needed for runic chests, which takes more rare materials to craft.

[Subtext]

I am very grateful for that change.

For once, bashed chests seem to take longer to respawn than it would for them to replenish with loot.
Second, I've encountered it a lot more than I should that people would bash chests and loot them *despite* someone with open lock/disable rap being available simply "because it's faster".
It's especially frustrating if you have invested in being one of these search bots.

It's a 2 skill point investment each to unlock the ability and even if you don't have much in dex or int, all it takes is a few very cheap custom gear pieces to be able to unlock and loot all the regular chests.

[Kalthariam]

Traps that do elemental or negative energy damage, against a target that is literally immune (For example through an RDD being immune to an elemental type, or NEP stopping negative energy traps) should not stop them from opening a chest.

The main reason people bash is because either they don't have OL, or there is an infinity trap on the chest that they cannot get around.

I don't see how breaking a lock suddenly destroys everything inside of a chest, unless for some reason every chest in arelith has a trap that if not disarmed disintegrates everything inside of the chest?

Honestly this just empowers classes like bards, that seem to really kind of already have everything, and basically even more so limits classes that do not have open locks or trap removal in their class kits.

[Xerah]

The thing that bugs me with the locks and traps is that it's all circumventable with rather basic enchanted gear. So it doesn't actually pose an interesting game mechanic to interact with, because the game mechanic you interact with is carrying 10 extra gear items and continuously switching back and forth. It's really just tedious af.

This is the biggest issue. It's a massive drop in QoL.

They even provided a good suggestion.

[Subtext]

If I were to propose a "solution" or just spitball some ideas it would be to remove disable trap/open lock from the basin. Introduce a new consumable item called skeleton key that only works once or has 'x' charges. Crafted by artwork and smithing maybe. Rare but not too pricey materials, like silver and a few basic gems. Then if you don't have the skill you can buy your way through the problem, and rogues don't have to. Runic Skeleton Keys are needed for runic chests, which takes more rare materials to craft.

This item sort of exists already and is craftable (thieves tools). You still need a point in the skill though and they don't work on traps (where I do think it would be a great change if it did).

[AllPizzasArePersonal]

I hate this change

In principle, there's a version of this change that I could like. That is, a version of Arelith dungeoning that rewards group play and having a myriad of classes and abilities to overcome challenges. But that's not the Arelith we're playing on today. Arelith mechanically discourages taking groups into dungeons, because, while the number of people loot gets split among increases, the amount of high quality loot (and, in particular, runics) does not. Additionally, outside of one or two niche dungeons, most everything on the server is easily soloable. This means that I'm just going to cross-class a point into open lock/disable trap and fill one of my inventory pages with unlock gear. It does not mean that I'm going to enslave a rogue for the purpose of unlocking chests for me. Additionally, familiar-based classes get pixies and can avoid this mechanic entirely.

If we're not going to redo dungeon balance to encourage parties, can we just move back to letting chests be bashable and save everyone the tedium of having one less inventory page and needing to periodically swap their gearsets out?

[AstralUniverse]

It was always a very obvious bug for the past 2 years or so that no one in their right mind wanted to report (until apparently someone did!). Goodbye sweet loot. It was nice while it lasted.

[Peacelily]

One suggestion I do want to make is to make them a touch more resilient.

As it is, even incidental damage (Hi, Sylphie!) can blow up all chests in an area. Or a failed locking attempt due to someone casting a spell during it sends summons smashing it instantly. So if chests don't drop loot, now, if broken - make it so breaking it is deliberate.

[I will never sleep]

The thing that bugs me with the locks and traps is that it's all circumventable with rather basic enchanted gear. So it doesn't actually pose an interesting game mechanic to interact with, because the game mechanic you interact with is carrying 10 extra gear items and continuously switching back and forth. It's really just tedious af.

I couldn't agree more. Despise this change. Just voicing that.

Like sequencers though, it is probably going to stick.

[Mattamue]

(thieves tools)... don't work on traps (where I do think it would be a great change if it did).

Come here to add this. Not every part will have a lock picker or trap disarmer so its nice to have some other mechanic. Knock helps with the low-level stuff at least.

Obviously, letting tools work on disarm or letting detect traps work on non-chests opens up a whole can of worms for non-chest traps as well, but setting that puzzle aside for a dev to solve: Why not let detect traps or tools also disarm non-runic chests?

[Atlus]

All this change does is condemns most mundane player classes to be unable to get loot independently without the requirement of crafting a set of magic equipment specifically to circumvent it. It is very much tedium and asinine without looking at the bigger picture.

Any changes that'd effect the accessibility of chests should not be done without first changing the weight of current loot value and distribution in a party setting, perhaps an additional bonus solely on the amount of party members with the chest opener? Arelith's endgame mostly ends up aiming toward competitive solo play over cooperatively distributing loot as that's the most efficient way to be able to afford anything in the currently market, which is probably not the intended outcome, but it is how it's perceived these days.

Subsequently, please leave familiars out of this. Stop trying to argue further removing options for players to get loot on their own terms, it's ridiculous...

[Kalthariam]

Honestly there's enough places where you have to have someone with a good enough lockpicking skill to either get accecss to shortcuts, extra treasure, or bypassing entire parts of dungeons to get to the end faster (Noisesome temple comes to mind)

To try to imply that people whom invest into OL didn't have much value feels kind of silly.

[ElvenEdibles]

Yay now people can be justified having aneurysms over chest bashing again

[MissEvelyn]

I say let the smashing continue. Emphasize inifitraps, especially and specifically for dungeons meant for level 20+. Remove Disable and Set Trap from bards.

+1
They should never have had those in the first place. As it currently stands, Bards make for better Rogues than Rogues do.

As for the loot piñatas, I'm going to miss them 🥲

[ElevenOne]

Random thoughts:

As a player who did invest in lockpicking, I ran a couple adventures the last week with random adventurers and when I offered opening chests they just rushed bashed the chest and continued.

I used to carry lockpicking gear and I HATED IT, I hated it to the point I started investing on the OL / Disarm trap in the first place.

Also, a few adventurers just summon a pixie to do the job, which makes opening lock skill even less relevant.

Mages have access to Knock spell on the first place, why do they also have a familiar?

On the other hand, opening lock skill does boost doing adventures with a group.

What's the best solution here? No clue...

[MissEvelyn]

All this change does is condemns most mundane player classes to be unable to get loot independently without the requirement of crafting a set of magic equipment specifically to circumvent it. It is very much tedium and asinine without looking at the bigger picture.

Any changes that'd effect the accessibility of chests should not be done without first changing the weight of current loot value and distribution in a party setting, perhaps an additional bonus solely on the amount of party members with the chest opener? Arelith's endgame mostly ends up aiming toward competitive solo play over cooperatively distributing loot as that's the most efficient way to be able to afford anything in the currently market, which is probably not the intended outcome, but it is how it's perceived these days.

Subsequently, please leave familiars out of this. Stop trying to argue further removing options for players to get loot on their own terms, it's ridiculous...

What if Find Familiar was opened up to all classes? We've made everything as solo-friendly as possible, so I honestly don't see why we should limit familiars. But, in order for it to cost something, make it a selectable General Feat, but have it require something like 15 Spellcraft -or- 15 UMD to take.


I'm on the "Make Rogues important" team, but we've long since lost that battle, so this is where we are.

[Atlus]

All this change does is condemns most mundane player classes to be unable to get loot independently without the requirement of crafting a set of magic equipment specifically to circumvent it. It is very much tedium and asinine without looking at the bigger picture.

Any changes that'd effect the accessibility of chests should not be done without first changing the weight of current loot value and distribution in a party setting, perhaps an additional bonus solely on the amount of party members with the chest opener? Arelith's endgame mostly ends up aiming toward competitive solo play over cooperatively distributing loot as that's the most efficient way to be able to afford anything in the currently market, which is probably not the intended outcome, but it is how it's perceived these days.

Subsequently, please leave familiars out of this. Stop trying to argue further removing options for players to get loot on their own terms, it's ridiculous...

What if Find Familiar was opened up to all classes? We've made everything as solo-friendly as possible, so I honestly don't see why we should limit familiars. But, in order for it to cost something, make it a selectable General Feat, but have it require something like 15 Spellcraft -or- 15 UMD to take.


I'm on the "Make Rogues important" team, but we've long since lost that battle, so this is where we are.

I would 100% not mind find familiar as a feat accessible to people with the appropriate traits. Classically that requires 3 caster levels, but adjustments are possible.

https://dndtools.net/feats/complete-arc ... iar--2078/

[dallion43]

Smashed chests respawn always feels longer then unlocked ones.
Having a *pocket rouge* page and spending 4 SP, not to mention "fashionista" chest RP, is annoying.
But it doesn't compare to annoyance of reaching the end of a dungeon and finding the chest bashed and knowing that if the previous person would unlock it the loot would probably respawn by now.

Removing OL/DT from gear will hurt people with limited gameplay time and people that play at relatively *dead* time zones and limit their builds.

To encourage group play/dedicated rouges/etc one solution could be changing a few dungeons to non-soloable dungeons with 2 rune chests at the end (maybe: 2nd chest with high OP/DT that only dedicated builds can open) as example.
While it is a lot of work it could answer the needs of most types of players that go to dungeons.

P.C Imho, very long dungeons (above 1.5hrs - 2hrs) that were added over time are great in terms of design but end up as one-time visit dungeons for time constrains reasons and other reasons. Especially if grouping up with *randoms*.

[Wrips]

After surrendering themselves to the pixie familiar meta, to the point of even making them new skins to promote diversity, the team directs their frustration at the poor mundanes, who now risk reaching level 20 without ever finding a couple +2 str +2 con pieces found in low level chests to claim as theirs.

[WanderingPoet]

Infinite traps on chests add nothing but frustration; yes it's nice when you bring a rogue/ranger/bard that can deal with them, but if you happen to not have one handy you can't do a dungeon? You do all the work to do a dungeon, you should get the reward; not be punished for lacking one of a bunch of classes.

It's also very not new player friendly, as you go do a high level dungeon for the first time, get excited to see 2-3 chests at the end. But hah, sucks to be you, they're infinite trapped and you don't get any loot after spending an hour crawling through an area and RPing with your friends. All because you didn't have 10 pieces of gear to deal with the trap, a wizard with a pixie, or a rogue/ranger/bard who could deal with the trap.

If the chests are not going to be bashable, then the traps shouldn't be infinite; so at least everyone /can/ get their loot for doing a dungeon.

I like to play rogues and rangers, the majority of characters I've made have been one or partly one. But I've never felt excited that "I can use my skills now that we've beat the boss!"; if anything it's more annoying that you /have/ to take Open Lock/Disable Trap; and that anyone with 10 pieces of gear and a knock wand is as good at something you invested in; or every wizard gets it for free.

Smashing chests was the only way you could get your loot if you lacked those skills, even if you took lots of damage in the process. Would be nice to get that back, or make it always possible to get your loot by not having infinite traps.

[Arienette]

Back to the way it should be.

If you want the loots, be in cahoots.

Back in the day, before running a dungeon some one would say “we should bring someone who can open stuff.” I haven’t heard anyone say that for at least a year.

Be or bring a rogue, a bard, a wizard, or the guy with a full set of lock picking gear.

[Felmilk]

Back to the way it should be.

If you want the loots, be in cahoots.

Back in the day, before running a dungeon some one would say “we should bring someone who can open stuff.” I haven’t heard anyone say that for at least a year.

Be or bring a rogue, a bard, a wizard, or the guy with a full set of lock picking gear.

+1

[I will never sleep]

Even rogues only have 1 ol/dt unless you are a full on quarterbreaker or you just hate your skillpoints. So they still have to carry a set and swap like everyone else.

Bards... eh. But they also get what... +17 to virtually every skill selectively just for existing which is a whole different issue.

I personally do not see the fun in gear swapping. Or what traps and chests in general add to the game other than annoyance and maybe killing a new player. Tedium at it's core.

Not to mention the overall design of the server sort of encourages you to go solo as others have stated unless it is a dungeon hard enough to warrant the help. The most ironic part about this all is the rogues I DO know generally prefer just stealthlooting chests alone than actually doing content with others.