Smashing Chests

[Felmilk]

All my rogues always go full into open lock and disarm trap. I refuse to carry a set of gear around to cheese with. Feels gross.

[Scylon]

Couple of ideas that might work:

1) they could work like quarters. DCs for locks, DC for bash (STR) or just out right blow it up for the cash value of what ever was in it.

2) Combine Disable trap and Open lock into a one skill called "Tinker". This could work like an all encompassing skill and free up a slot for something else the future.

3) add treasure options that can only be accessed via magic or strength means (not just bash, anyone can simulate lots of damage). This way if you run a dungeon, everyone has a chance to get something. If your group has a wizard. fighter and rogue you'll get the lot for example. I can see "magical" locks that only can open via knock on a caster of X level (so scrolls are no good). Or fighter needing to bash/move a rock that wouldn't be moveable by a dex or caster character. that sort of thing.

[TimeAdept]

It was always a very obvious bug for the past 2 years or so that no one in their right mind wanted to report (until apparently someone did!). Goodbye sweet loot. It was nice while it lasted.

[Scylon]

Another idea crossed my mind

4) if you bash a chest, there is X% chance the item will be destroyed and turned into X% of its gold value, or the item it just available for pickup. Adds a risk to bashing, and potentially a reward if it was like a 40k item value thing and you just get the cash?

[solar separation]

a bug that i wish had been a feature, because it saved some headache.

alas.

[Aren]

What I personally don’t understand is why? There are already a significant amount of chests that cannot be reached if you don’t have open lock. These QoL removing changes seem somewhat out of touch with a significant portion of the player base.
I think the amount of players who enjoy swapping into a OL / DT gear set to actually get loot from the dungeon they’ve just cleared, are few and far between.
I don’t know. Just feels entirely unnecessary. Like fixing something that isn’t a problem to begin with.

[Xerah]

Another annoying issue is the spot checks to find traps are out of control too. I'm sitting in detect more with 45 search in a sub 20 dungeon and can't see the trap on the chest.

[Nekonecro]

Unpopular opinion here likely but in my opinion a lot of you think it's bad because you've all gotten used to the easy convenience that bashing and getting full loot was.

[Vangrave]

I think the team needs to start looking at changes from a perspective what's actually fun and enjoyable, because lately it feels like a lot of the changes have missed the most important part of game design: to be enjoyable. Balance changes keep happening that, while they do ostensibly make things balanced, also manage to strip some of the fun out of the game when compared to other balance alternatives that are not taken.

This is a terrible change and I have nothing good to say about it. All it does is further decrease the amount of inventory space characters have and make it harder and harder to solo. I personally will probably not be able to find lock pickers to come with me because I don't live in a US timezone. That means I can't solo gear myself unless I play a very small specific subset of classes. Or lug around an entire second gear set, which, again, is not fun. It's a hassle. It's unenjoyable. It's a chore.

I don't think the dungeon side of the game should be a chore.

Even worse, it's yet another set of items I have to carry in a game where inventory space is getting ever more precious.

This is also likely going to lead to more conflict and more fights over loot as people become increasingly forced to gear in groups of people they don't know. Organized groups on the server already hold most of the cards mechanically, and I really don't see the reason to make it even more extreme.

This change isn't even reasonable from a physical point of view. I, a regular man, can break a box and not destroy the things inside. I have broken a lock on an actual old chest myself when cleaning out an attic, and I can assure you the clothing and photos inside did not disintegrate or degrade in any way. I'm definitely not going to explode a bunch of gems and armor by breaking a lock, that's ridiculous. I'm sure an AB 40+ adventurer can pull their hits so that everything inside doesn't disintegrate.

Lastly, I think Allpizzasarepersonal made a great point. A lot of the changes that keep happening seem to lead to a lot of unintended consequences. The game, as it stands, has a lot of perverse incentives. The team seemingly doesn't want people to play a character for multiple years, but also doesn't want people to roll-grind. Yet the team continually makes it harder to gear and fund them, while simultaneously making to so people feel they HAVE to roll characters on cooldown. So now people are incentivized to either never roll anything because it becomes more difficult to fully gear and kit a character, or they create characters so that they can roll them instantly on reward cooldown. The changes actually encourage people to be more extreme than they were rather than leading to the balanced approach I'd imagine it was intended to promote.

[Aren]

Unpopular opinion here likely but in my opinion a lot of you think it's bad because you've all gotten used to the easy convenience that bashing and getting full loot was.

One hundred percent, I’ve gotten used to the convenience. Because for a good while, doing a dungeon and getting loot chests wasn’t an ordeal with gear swapping. It felt so much better than having to crossdress as a rogue for loot.

[Kaymon24]

Feedback on change: I think instead of removing the items in a smash chest keep them. Rare items are found in chests and people are putting them in shops for a ridiculous amount of gold to spend on them. There have been MANY ways and means to reduce ability for players to make more coin and taking this is just another way to make people work even harder than before to get what they need for their characters. Now you have to have a lock pick or trap disabler (which are not very common now) with you to get rare items and even that one time they come you most likely won't find nothing.

Idea/solution: Rather than take away items bashed from loot chests completely, promote lock picks or trap disablers. Have it that if a item is in a chest, if you bash it you have a high chance to loose that item in the chest. But you also have a chance to save the item when you bash the chest.

This gives players the means to bring lock picks or trap disablers with them and give thieves/rogues a purpose in lock pick or trap disabling. Because there is a high chance you lose the epic/rare items if you bash the chest. But, don't make the items be gone for good or hopeless for those chest bashers who are putting the time in effort in for their characters to find the items for themselves rather than be forced to depend on lock pickers who will probably not be there to help.

[Irongron]

This is a bug fix, nothing more. The only issue is that we didn't detect and fix it sooner - smashing chests was (really quite understandably) never intended as a means to open chests. I'm rather surprised at quite how many think it should be.

[Kaymon24]

Could even instead have a chance for the item to be saved include the items bashed in the chest in ruins. But could have someone of a certain trade skill repair them with the right materials to bring back the once ruined items in the chest. The rare items anyway (mithral dust, rogue stones, bejuril gems, runic materials). Like maybe have a artist repair it etc... Gives hope for non lock pickers and motivation for those to be lock pickers at the same time.

[solar separation]

This is a bug fix, nothing more. The only issue is that we didn't detect and fix it sooner - smashing chests was (really quite understandably) never intended as a means to open chests. I'm rather surprised at quite how many think it should be.

because to a decent amount of the playerbase it was a breath of fresh air and seen as a last resort if you're not able to access the chest in any other way.
it was useful. a convenience. it also made sense.

one could say that given the outcry there's room for it to become a mechanic, but perhaps with a drawback. to make something of it, since there's a desire for it to continue existing.

[Aren]

This is a bug fix, nothing more. The only issue is that we didn't detect and fix it sooner - smashing chests was (really quite understandably) never intended as a means to open chests. I'm rather surprised at quite how many think it should be.

I’m definitely not trying to be snide or rude, but isn’t the fact that quite a lot of people think that way, grounds for some reflection? Unintended as this bug may have been, it was a huge boost in QoL for the players. And I think the majority of reactions in this thread is a testament to that.

[AstralUniverse]

This is a bug fix, nothing more. The only issue is that we didn't detect and fix it sooner - smashing chests was (really quite understandably) never intended as a means to open chests. I'm rather surprised at quite how many think it should be.

Honestly? From a game-play perspective these chests arent *really* locked. Any character with some gear and 1 rank disarm traps will be able to easily reach the DC and disarm epic traps. For detection with have detect traps, and lenses of detection with no umd check, and for opening chests we have Knock scrolls with what... 10 lore requirement?

These chests arent *really* locked. They arent gated behind anything that requires a Rogue or anything like that. It just, at this point, requires the mandatory inventory space and gold tax to have the gear to open it, on literally any character.

So if the chests arent really locked and everyone can open them without any real investment beyond QoL, then a lot of players are wondering what are these locks even for...

Like... dont kill me for saying this but if we're going this route, we might as well raise the lore requirement on Knock and traps' disarm DC, otherwise it really is just nothing beyond a drop in QoL, for nothing too thematic or immersive as a reward.

[Slapstick]

TL;DR at the bottom

The obstacle and solution interacts in a truly obnoxious way, in which
a) the obstacle is the epitome of 'not engaging' (the open lock/disable trap is over in seconds and is an entirely dopamine-free experience)
b) the solution is excessively cumbersome (carry a gear set, struggle with inventory management, swap out 10+ gear pieces)
c) the solution exists for literally no other reason or any interactions throughout the game (except if you're a quarterbreaker)
d) it comes up fairly frequently throughout the dungeon, and halts the game experience for too long.
e) it may negatively interact with other mechanics (loss off spellslots)
f) if you take away both the obstacle and the solution, nothing is lost but everything is gained.

The whole interaction exists only to serve up the experience of swapping gear. That's it. It does nothing else.

If there is a strong wish, for whatever reason, to keep the locks/traps design as is, then at least the runic chests and boss chests should always be unlocked and untrapped. The rest of the containers in the dungeon could be. Then everyone would be able to get a small and the most important treasure, but if one wishes to go on a real loot hunt then either bring a rogue or prepare to play inventory management simulator.
At least I would be satisfied with the loss of some treasure to avoid all the hassle, but I would also appreciate the extra loot if I were to play a rogue.

---

I can see that a certain part of the "class fantasy" or "D&D fantasy" is locked chests and trapped dungeons. It is however thoroughly difficult to get right in a pc game. After decades of gaming, I can count on very few fingers the games that got it right. If we think thoroughly about the "what does this achieve" and evalute if it in fact achieves said goal, I have doubts. Right now it only/primarily achieves "bring a gear set and swap" - and if that wasn't the primary design intent (because it's cumbersome, boring and irksome), then I'm sorry to say it has missed it's mark and might as well be scrapped in the mean time.

To give an example of something I think you've got absolutely right, is the implementation of search. It's automatic, non-invasive, it has only up-side, is non-trivial but also not necessary. It brings value to the player, it makes it beneficial for a group to have a designated looter and everyone wins. I will make sacrifices to have search on a character, but only up to a point. It allows for class fantasy and specialization. It's sublimely perfect.

I've given some thought to how open lock/disable trap might be implemented in the same spirit, but so far I'm coming up rather short except as a copy of search. Maybe it would be possible to allow you to pick up the damned chest and take it with you and find a lockpicker. The skill could spawn an inventory item weighing something sensible (10-50 lb?). Then lockpickers could hawk their services in the town square, one could sell chests in stores (preferably marked from which dungeon) if one couldn't find a lockpicker, it would generate some rudimentary rp ("I found this chest in so-and-so place, but the lock refuses to budge!").
I'm not sure it would be better but at least it would generate some actual play and be different as well as optional, and allow for a variety of player interaction. Preferably with OL/DT skills removed from basin to facilitate the above. If the skills are kept enchantable, at least most of us would be able to save the hassle until the end of the expedition.


TL;DR.
The only thing this achieves is gear management which is really cumbersome and annoying. Please keep end-of-dungeons chests unlocked and untrapped so we aren't forced to interact with these anacronistic and obnoxious mechanics.

[Irongron]

This is a bug fix, nothing more. The only issue is that we didn't detect and fix it sooner - smashing chests was (really quite understandably) never intended as a means to open chests. I'm rather surprised at quite how many think it should be.

Honestly? From a game-play perspective these chests arent *really* locked. Any character with some gear and 1 rank disarm traps will be able to easily reach the DC and disarm epic traps. For detection with have detect traps, and lenses of detection with no umd check, and for opening chests we have Knock scrolls with what... 10 lore requirement?

These chests arent *really* locked. They arent gated behind anything that requires a Rogue or anything like that. It just, at this point, requires the mandatory inventory space and gold tax to have the gear to open it, on literally any character.

So if the chests arent really locked and everyone can open them without any real investment beyond QoL, then a lot of players are wondering what are these locks even for...

Like... dont kill me for saying this but if we're going this route, we might as well raise the lore requirement on Knock and traps' disarm DC, otherwise it really is just nothing beyond a drop in QoL, for nothing too thematic or immersive as a reward.

I actually agree. I'll look at significantly raising the requirements to open locked chests, at least some of them.

[solar separation]

why

[TimeAdept]

why

[AstralUniverse]

Jesus...

For the record, that's not what I meant. I was just making a point.

[Naghast]

That's gonna heavily discourage further feedback on any topic.

[Slapstick]

This is a bug fix, nothing more. The only issue is that we didn't detect and fix it sooner - smashing chests was (really quite understandably) never intended as a means to open chests. I'm rather surprised at quite how many think it should be.

Honestly? From a game-play perspective these chests arent *really* locked. Any character with some gear and 1 rank disarm traps will be able to easily reach the DC and disarm epic traps. For detection with have detect traps, and lenses of detection with no umd check, and for opening chests we have Knock scrolls with what... 10 lore requirement?

These chests arent *really* locked. They arent gated behind anything that requires a Rogue or anything like that. It just, at this point, requires the mandatory inventory space and gold tax to have the gear to open it, on literally any character.

So if the chests arent really locked and everyone can open them without any real investment beyond QoL, then a lot of players are wondering what are these locks even for...

Like... dont kill me for saying this but if we're going this route, we might as well raise the lore requirement on Knock and traps' disarm DC, otherwise it really is just nothing beyond a drop in QoL, for nothing too thematic or immersive as a reward.

I actually agree. I'll look at significantly raising the requirements to open locked chests, at least some of them.

I fear this will only lead to mandatory cross-classing + skill dumps in addition to those we already have. I'm really not sure pigeonholing builds and skill assignments is the optimal solution.

[AstralUniverse]

why

but what about the guy who snitched about the bug in first place? we should be flaming them instead of me

what have i done...

[solar separation]

why

but what about the guy who snitched about the bug in first place? we should be flaming them instead of me

what have i done...

may god have mercy on you, for he shall spare none for me.