Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

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chocolatelover
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Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by chocolatelover » Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:41 pm

First, I need to clarify that I know this is only MY opinion and I need to let you know that is coming from a brand new Arelith player with her very first character. Therefore, experienced players may not relate to this AT ALL.
I don't know when the boat from Skal started dropping players off at Guldorand, but there is a reason many do not stay.
If this is truly a brand new player (not just a new character) there are many things we didn't learn in Skal:

1 - We have never used portals. There is a hidden outgoing portal on Skal and some players never find it. Even then, without knowing what portals are, it just seems like some weird thing and when we hit Guldorand and other players tell us to take a portal to some other place, we have no idea what you are talking about.

2. Many of us have never ridden. I know! Strange! But there seem to be very few riders on Skal. I suppose this being my first character, I figured I could get around other ways, so I didn't put any points into riding.

3. We don't have Speedy Messengers. Nope. I have seen some Speedy Messengers arrive on Skal, but there is no service on Skal, so most of us just haven't taken the time to look into that or know how to send one.

4. We don't know anything about the rest of Arelith! So, these newbies get off the boat at Guldorand, which for some reason as a city is labeled as being for players 17 level and above. Never seen a leveled city before. A dungeon, yes. So we go get our first writ and where is the easiest one? Some troll cave at the foot of the Skull Crags. So we head out. Goodness! There are hill giants and mountain grizzlies and rocs and wyverns everywhere. Most likely we are dead, or we head back to town. We ask around. Everyone says just go to Westcliff. Where is Westcliff? It doesn't even appear on any Arelith maps as best I can tell. Someone else tells us to ask rangers for help. Where are the rangers? Apparently hanging out in Westcliff You see where this is going.....

6. Economics. So, perhaps we should do some crafting to make money to buy better equipment so we can make it past the giants. Unfortunately, these being our first characters, we're not the greatest crafters. In fact, my character earned her living in Skal crafting for lower-level characters.. simpler items they could not craft themselves and she could sell them cheap. But wait, THERE ARE NO LOWER-LEVEL characters here! In fact, this leads to some other problems.

The city is... empty. Now, there is a sizable crowd of players, who I am sure LOVE Guldorand to death and they all tend to be on at about the same time, so they have lots of RP. The rest of us? NO ONE IS THERE. This city NEEDS more players, Cities are like ecosystems. You NEED layers and levels of players. There needs to be a large enough population of players that you can find someone at any time of day. Heck, Skal feels empty for many 5 minutes before the parties come rolling in.
Now the city is beautiful. I cannot say enough good things about the layout, the decor, everything. But by limiting players to only higher levels, you're not going to have enough players going there. Sure, players may start another new Skal character (happens a lot), but they're gonna skip Guldorand if they do continue on. Why They got a bad taste the first time. So they're gonna bypass Guldorand and head somewhere else.

Now, I REALLY REALLY want to like Guldorand. We have stayed for three weeks trying desperately to find our niche. So, much that we just joined the Garrison. We'll see how this goes. At least we get paid....

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by chocolatelover » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:02 am

Part Two - What Skal has
1. Skal has DRAMA! Now Skal doesn't have many laws. It's truly the wild west out there. Guardsmen only protect the village from beats that get in or from any attacks on NPS, NOT any player vs player attacks. Hence, there is a constant pile of bodies and vendettas going on. Just in my character's time on Skal there was a character claiming to be the new lord of the village who sent out minions to kill non0humans and the necromancers who had just shown up. The aforementioned necromancers paraded undead in the street at night. There was a horde of half-giants and half-orcs at one point. There was a serial killer who murdered bards and kept their tongues in a bag. There was a magic user who polymorphed into a dragon in the middle of town. There was always something interesting going on. Guldornad feels so empty and.... boring. (for those of us who cannot figure out where everyone is.)
2. Skal has several commoners who help make everyone welcome. These commoners mostly run the Tradepost stores, but they also help players build their stories, playing along with real and perceived plots and secrets. I'm fairly certain these people helped my character believe things were going on that probably weren't to help me feel part of a story.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Arienette » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:25 am

So, this isnt meant to address the possible issues in the module that are leading to your headache. Just advice from player to player.

The boat from Skal just so happens to land in Guldorand. For various reasons, some of which you have already identified, Guldorand isnt really a great place for lvl 13-16 Skal newbies to land. Luckily, in the same docks that you arrive in, there is an "Amniam Boat Pilot" dude who will take you directly to Brogendenstein for 50 gold. From there, there is another boat guy named Captain Laurick who will take you to various other places including Cordor and the Crows Nest!

Cordor has a lot more people around who might be able to help you get your bearings. Brogendenstein and Crows Nest have writs and such that are more achievable for new players coming off Skal at level 15 or so. So does Bendir Dale, which is reachable overland from Cordor.

Basically, even though the Skal boat drops you off in Guldorand, staying there is... probably not the best idea, especially for new players. I know this is counter-intuitive, but it is what it is!

Generally speaking, the best advice I can give for new players arriving on Arelith proper is to identify and join a player faction. This is a good way to figure out Arelith norms and learn the ropes from more experienced characters that can advise you and such.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:41 am

This is exactly why I think no one should be allowed to start their first character on Skal, and I say this as someone who hates the Cordor start with a burning passion and would never, ever do it again unless you threatened me with grievous violence. There's just too many mechanics things that you miss out on, and Guldorand doesn't have the playerbase to support newbie orientation. My last few Elven Quarter characters have tried to prioritize "newbie orientation" for those who wander in, but I've not yet played a main-Guldorander who's done the same.

I'd strongly suggest some Guldorander players who find themselves with patience and time to spare to park themselves in the main square and just wait for people to walk by; if you sit around and assertively approach people you've never seen with the offer of orientation RP, I promise it can be very rewarding IC and OOC.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by chocolatelover » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:57 am

I think that would indeed help. but I have noticed other players posting on discord that they left Skal, got to Guldorand, left, and went on, which means they found other places to go that were fine. So while, YES, having some players be the Newbie Guides in Guilderland would be great, what if Guldoran also had a new player start? The city would have a larger population and have those layers of levels of characters that a real-life city has. I actually loved Skal, and just spending a day visiting Cordor to buy some things made me realize HOW DIFFERENT it felt from Guldornad.

But I am determined to be a good Guldorand citizen and stock it out!

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by chocolatelover » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:02 am

Arienette wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:25 am
So, this isnt meant to address the possible issues in the module that are leading to your headache. Just advice from player to player.

The boat from Skal just so happens to land in Guldorand. For various reasons, some of which you have already identified, Guldorand isnt really a great place for lvl 13-16 Skal newbies to land. Luckily, in the same docks that you arrive in, there is an "Amniam Boat Pilot" dude who will take you directly to Brogendenstein for 50 gold. From there, there is another boat guy named Captain Laurick who will take you to various other places including Cordor and the Crows Nest!

Cordor has a lot more people around who might be able to help you get your bearings. Brogendenstein and Crows Nest have writs and such that are more achievable for new players coming off Skal at level 15 or so. So does Bendir Dale, which is reachable overland from Cordor.

Basically, even though the Skal boat drops you off in Guldorand, staying there is... probably not the best idea, especially for new players. I know this is counter-intuitive, but it is what it is!

Generally speaking, the best advice I can give for new players arriving on Arelith proper is to identify and join a player faction. This is a good way to figure out Arelith norms and learn the ropes from more experienced characters that can advise you and such.
But GULDORAND IS EMPTY and they are actively recruiting in Skal to get players to go there. By the way, those who leave Skal are usually level 17 - 22. My character was level 21, but it is so hard to change over to Guldorand unless you just happen to always get online with the in-crowd does, and let's face it. That's not going to happen for many people. Why does Guldorand not have a starting level like every place else? It's just... weird. And why does the boat from Skal drop us off in Guldorand? Surely it wasn't like that just two years ago before Guldorand existed, so clearly they're trying to build up Guldorand's population. Just pointing out some reasons why it isn't working.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Good Character » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:00 am

Skal used to drop you in Westcliffe; back then that was what people called Guldorand. It worked to a degree because it felt somewhat similar to Skal, a small village with nearly every useful NPC you would need plus multiple player shops. If it didn't work it was obvious that the Amn boat pilot served some purpose and other characters were willing to show you where that NPC was because it wasn't behind an entire server transition.

Frankly, Guldorand is never going to work while it competes with Cordor and Andunor and every settlement in-between which are far easier to access. Guldorand is far better than Cordor due to its larger yet more open city scape, singular social zone, extensive underground layout with multiple nooks and crannies, its open policy to duergar, svirfneblin and any religion, better NPCs, the Freeport, and the Founder's Council (which can breed actual conflict unlike Cordor's iron-fisted Amn puppeteering situation).

As someone who has had multiple characters bound to Guldorand, I feel one of its biggest crutches is its portal situation. It would feel like a chore to have to move through the entire monastery and across half a zone to get into Guldorand. I never understood it as a city that's meant to feel shady, serve as a hub for inclusion, and hardly permitted to go to war.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Richrd » Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:27 am

Man, I remember when leaving Skal usually happened at around level 14 or 15 because you otherwise ran out of stuff to do there. And I am not even what I'd consider a "veteran" of Arelith. Jesus, that place truly has seen some powercreep ...

That aside. I agree with the OP in all points. I had nearly the same experience when I returned to Arelith after a relatively long break. Started out in Skal, went to Guldorand and everything was the same. Even as a STR SD I was not able to do any writs in Guldorand solo. And just like OP I could not find anybody to do writs with. Either the city was empty or the people I met were epic levels just hanging out and about, being involved in political drama.

I'll say it plain and clear. In my opinion the design of Guldorand is awkward and mediocre at best.
1. It is a terrible and unintuitive hub for first-time-players to arrive in from Skal.
2. The fact that the docks and the rest of the city are split onto two different servers is awkward.
3. The citizens actively break my immersion. Why can random grandmas cast ghostly visage and cantrips? They are commoners, citizens, peasants. They should be fleeing in terror when a player pulls a slime out of the sewers instead of fighting it head-on.
4. The main problem. The city is way too big when considering how many other quest hubs Arelith has. Just from the top of my head and not including the Underdark at all you have : Cordor, Arcane Tower, Bendir, Brogendenstein, Floaty-Elf-City, Westcliff, Crow's Nest, the Radiant Heart and that inn near it. And I probably forgot some or they were recently added. Arelith is suffering from self-inflicted scope-creep when it comes to player and questing hubs.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by ElvenEdibles » Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:07 am

Richrd wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:27 am
2. The fact that the docks and the rest of the city are split onto two different servers is awkward.
I think ALL ports are on the Surface server, for every city, including Andunor.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by AstralUniverse » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:09 am

First of all I would like to say I love this feedback in the OP. Really good read!

Now a few things...
chocolatelover wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:41 pm
1 - We have never used portals. There is a hidden outgoing portal on Skal and some players never find it. Even then, without knowing what portals are, it just seems like some weird thing and when we hit Guldorand and other players tell us to take a portal to some other place, we have no idea what you are talking about.
This is not a problem really. You dont need portals for functionality and you dont *have* to know about them as a brand new player.... until you discover them. they're just shortcuts. They become relevant only when you go to dungeons where the exit portal requires you to have exit points attuned to your character, "portal destination" or as they're called. So the only good advice to give you here is to make sure to attune to any portal you see. No downsides to touching them.
chocolatelover wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:41 pm
2. Many of us have never ridden. I know! Strange! But there seem to be very few riders on Skal. I suppose this being my first character, I figured I could get around other ways, so I didn't put any points into riding.
After 15 years here I've never ridden either! I tried once but I didnt like it from mechanical perspective (large hit box, and other shenanigans). Not gonna tell you that you're not missing much fun, but for sure you're not missing something crucial to the game-play of Arelith. Dont worry about riding.
chocolatelover wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:41 pm
3. We don't have Speedy Messengers. Nope. I have seen some Speedy Messengers arrive on Skal, but there is no service on Skal, so most of us just haven't taken the time to look into that or know how to send one.

4. We don't know anything about the rest of Arelith! So, these newbies get off the boat at Guldorand, which for some reason as a city is labeled as being for players 17 level and above. Never seen a leveled city before. A dungeon, yes. So we go get our first writ and where is the easiest one? Some troll cave at the foot of the Skull Crags. So we head out. Goodness! There are hill giants and mountain grizzlies and rocs and wyverns everywhere. Most likely we are dead, or we head back to town. We ask around. Everyone says just go to Westcliff. Where is Westcliff? It doesn't even appear on any Arelith maps as best I can tell. Someone else tells us to ask rangers for help. Where are the rangers? Apparently hanging out in Westcliff You see where this is going.....

6. Economics. So, perhaps we should do some crafting to make money to buy better equipment so we can make it past the giants. Unfortunately, these being our first characters, we're not the greatest crafters. In fact, my character earned her living in Skal crafting for lower-level characters.. simpler items they could not craft themselves and she could sell them cheap. But wait, THERE ARE NO LOWER-LEVEL characters here! In fact, this leads to some other problems.

The city is... empty. Now, there is a sizable crowd of players, who I am sure LOVE Guldorand to death and they all tend to be on at about the same time, so they have lots of RP. The rest of us? NO ONE IS THERE. This city NEEDS more players, Cities are like ecosystems. You NEED layers and levels of players. There needs to be a large enough population of players that you can find someone at any time of day. Heck, Skal feels empty for many 5 minutes before the parties come rolling in.
Now the city is beautiful. I cannot say enough good things about the layout, the decor, everything. But by limiting players to only higher levels, you're not going to have enough players going there. Sure, players may start another new Skal character (happens a lot), but they're gonna skip Guldorand if they do continue on. Why They got a bad taste the first time. So they're gonna bypass Guldorand and head somewhere else.

Now, I REALLY REALLY want to like Guldorand. We have stayed for three weeks trying desperately to find our niche. So, much that we just joined the Garrison. We'll see how this goes. At least we get paid....
From #3 and forward I just agree with every word. Very well said and since I'm far from being a new player I really couldnt hope to word it as spot on as this. Well said.

I personally think that Guldorand shouldnt be the only destination from Skal. People should be able to choose between Cordor, Guldorand and Brog. Even Bendir could be an option because a lvl 14+ character can surely walk from the shore in the skull crags (foothills) to Bendir in 5 minutes after getting instructions from an npc on how to get there. So literally any settlement can be a good arrival point from Skal and Guldorand is likely the worst of all alternatives.

I also think that Speedies appearing in Skal is dumb. If speedies could reach as far as Skal then they should have an office there! But I think that a better option would be to just exclude Skal. Skal should just be off limit for Speedies.
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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by riffraff » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:00 pm

I came through Cordor rather than Skal, but based on my experience from that side as a newbie, I think your feedback is very valid. Not letting you ease in to portal use is kinda crazy if you're hopping onto Arelith's main isle at mid-level!
chocolatelover wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:41 pm
Goodness! There are hill giants and mountain grizzlies and rocs and wyverns everywhere. Most likely we are dead, or we head back to town. We ask around. Everyone says just go to Westcliff. Where is Westcliff? It doesn't even appear on any Arelith maps as best I can tell. Someone else tells us to ask rangers for help. Where are the rangers? Apparently hanging out in Westcliff You see where this is going.....
I don't recall what level I was when I first decided to make the trek to find Guldorand, but I don't think I could have been far off the level Skal folks would be at. I do remember the mountains were horrendously hard to get through and I only survived the journey because I've invested heavily in stealth. The rocs swooping out of nowhere is absolutely devastating.

It's interesting people are pointing you to the Skull Crags Rangers (at least, I assume that's who they mean by "rangers"). I've recently joined up and whilst our credo is absolutely to help people making the dangerous journey through the Crags, it's also faaaairly rare to have any of us just hanging around in Westcliff to be summoned for that kind of assistance. But this is also a timezone thing, potentially - most of the Rangers seem to be on US timezones, so even my bumping into my comrades is a bit sporadic. Still, might be worth someone with a need for a guide/escort IC pointing out a need for contact information for Speedies or something, assuming that isn't anywhere in Guldorand already.

The "where is Westcliff" question is a good one. As people have said, it didn't used to be called Westcliff and like a bunch of places in Arelith, the name isn't always updated with NPCs, signposts, messageboards, loading screens/area names or even PC terminology, which is really confusing as a newbie. On my first hazardous journey to find Guldorand, I was ecstatic to find a sign pointing me towards the "Guldorand Logging Grounds" thinking I'd arrived. I got very confused for a while before realising this was a separate settlement that's part of the Republic of Guldorand, not the city itself (the little settlement by the logging grounds is Westcliff, pro tip). I also spent a long time hearing "Westcliff" and assuming it was a different name for Wharftown because it's on the West coast...
chocolatelover wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:41 pm
6. Economics. So, perhaps we should do some crafting to make money to buy better equipment so we can make it past the giants. Unfortunately, these being our first characters, we're not the greatest crafters. In fact, my character earned her living in Skal crafting for lower-level characters.. simpler items they could not craft themselves and she could sell them cheap. But wait, THERE ARE NO LOWER-LEVEL characters here! In fact, this leads to some other problems.
Ironically I was selling low level healing kits in Guldorand instead of Cordor, until I realised the temporary shops (of which there are exactly a bazillion) let anyone loot your wares for free once the horrendously short 3 hour timer runs out. I stopped using them after that. It would help a lot if some of those super awesome looking stalls were permanent shops instead of temporary ones, I think.
chocolatelover wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 11:41 pm
The city is... empty. Now, there is a sizable crowd of players, who I am sure LOVE Guldorand to death and they all tend to be on at about the same time, so they have lots of RP. The rest of us? NO ONE IS THERE. This city NEEDS more players, Cities are like ecosystems. You NEED layers and levels of players. There needs to be a large enough population of players that you can find someone at any time of day.
Yeah, the timings are weird. Cordor has traffic running through most times of most days, with it being fairly rare for the square to be entirely empty. Guldorand, on the other hand, seems to be entirely empty most of the time and then has pockets of sudden activity (often around weekends). I don't linger in cities long unless I'm running errands or eavesdropping, but Guldorand in particular I tend to just pass through, go to make use of the stuff in my room, check the board and leave, because it's usually too quiet to waste time lingering in. It's a shame, because I think it's a really beautifully designed module (even if the NPCs do like walking directly into my character. Personal space, guys).

If Skal players are being deliberately directed to Guldorand in order to liven up the place, that's great because it needs it, but if so you're completely right it needs some tweaking to be friendly for those getting off the boat for the first time.
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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:12 pm

Good Character wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:00 am
Skal used to drop you in Westcliffe; back then that was what people called Guldorand. It worked to a degree because it felt somewhat similar to Skal, a small village with nearly every useful NPC you would need plus multiple player shops. If it didn't work it was obvious that the Amn boat pilot served some purpose and other characters were willing to show you where that NPC was because it wasn't behind an entire server transition.

Frankly, Guldorand is never going to work while it competes with Cordor and Andunor and every settlement in-between which are far easier to access. Guldorand is far better than Cordor due to its larger yet more open city scape, singular social zone, extensive underground layout with multiple nooks and crannies, its open policy to duergar, svirfneblin and any religion, better NPCs, the Freeport, and the Founder's Council (which can breed actual conflict unlike Cordor's iron-fisted Amn puppeteering situation).

As someone who has had multiple characters bound to Guldorand, I feel one of its biggest crutches is its portal situation. It would feel like a chore to have to move through the entire monastery and across half a zone to get into Guldorand. I never understood it as a city that's meant to feel shady, serve as a hub for inclusion, and hardly permitted to go to war.
Guld hub portak would be mint. Could even tie it to citizen if need be

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Arienette » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:19 pm

chocolatelover wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:02 am
Arienette wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 12:25 am
So, this isnt meant to address the possible issues in the module that are leading to your headache. Just advice from player to player.

The boat from Skal just so happens to land in Guldorand. For various reasons, some of which you have already identified, Guldorand isnt really a great place for lvl 13-16 Skal newbies to land. Luckily, in the same docks that you arrive in, there is an "Amniam Boat Pilot" dude who will take you directly to Brogendenstein for 50 gold. From there, there is another boat guy named Captain Laurick who will take you to various other places including Cordor and the Crows Nest!

Cordor has a lot more people around who might be able to help you get your bearings. Brogendenstein and Crows Nest have writs and such that are more achievable for new players coming off Skal at level 15 or so. So does Bendir Dale, which is reachable overland from Cordor.

Basically, even though the Skal boat drops you off in Guldorand, staying there is... probably not the best idea, especially for new players. I know this is counter-intuitive, but it is what it is!

Generally speaking, the best advice I can give for new players arriving on Arelith proper is to identify and join a player faction. This is a good way to figure out Arelith norms and learn the ropes from more experienced characters that can advise you and such.
But GULDORAND IS EMPTY and they are actively recruiting in Skal to get players to go there. By the way, those who leave Skal are usually level 17 - 22. My character was level 21, but it is so hard to change over to Guldorand unless you just happen to always get online with the in-crowd does, and let's face it. That's not going to happen for many people. Why does Guldorand not have a starting level like every place else? It's just... weird. And why does the boat from Skal drop us off in Guldorand? Surely it wasn't like that just two years ago before Guldorand existed, so clearly they're trying to build up Guldorand's population. Just pointing out some reasons why it isn't working.
I was not aware that people were typically coming out of Skal around level 20. If so, I would think that Guldorand content might be a bit more manageable.

And yes, I see what your saying about the problems and I largely agree with you about them. That is why my advice was to basically... leave Guldorand. The Skal boat drops you off there for whatever reason, but you can (and should) immediately get on another boat and go someplace else.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by chocolatelover » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:06 pm

The problem still remains how to build the population of Guldorand. I suppose players starting in places other than Skal will have to give input on that.. why are they NOT emigrating to Guldorand,? I still think not having a complete population from level 2 up is part of the problem.
Last edited by chocolatelover on Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Amateur Hour » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:20 pm

chocolatelover wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:06 pm
I suppose players starting in places other than Skal will have to give input on that.. why are they emigrating to Guldorand,?
My first character moved to Westcliff/Guldorand (I spanned the transition) because Cordor is extremely easy to get on the wrong side of the law of, even if you haven't done anything harmful per the Forgotten Realms definition. Guldorand's Charter heavily restricts what can be considered 'criminal' and what's necessary for someone to do before they can be prosecuted for a crime, which is a lot of Guldorand's appeal.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Ebonstar » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:35 pm

There is a reason why when you make your first character and level up to 2nd n the entry area you enter the door and get a choice where to begin.

Last I checked Skal is listed as not a place for players new to Arelith. It seriously needs to be off limits without an RPR rating of 20 or better.
This would fix the newbies having noone to help them with the learning curve that is the main isle of Arelith.

it would be a simple trigger script that checks cd keys like the one for the speedy jobs skipping, newbies start in Cordor or Andunor. After they learn the basics and get their RPR up, then they have full access to the more difficult starting areas.
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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Ebonstar » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:40 pm

chocolatelover wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:06 pm
The problem still remains how to build the population of Guldorand. I suppose players starting in places other than Skal will have to give input on that.. why are they emigrating to Guldorand,? I still think not having a complete population from level 2 up is part of the problem.
there wont ever be a lvl 2 up for Guld simply because outside the gates is 20-30 content just to get to and from the city, just like you mentioned.
Guld is for epics and those who use the ship system alot.
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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Eyeliner » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:06 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:35 pm
Last I checked Skal is listed as not a place for players new to Arelith. It seriously needs to be off limits without an RPR rating of 20 or better.
This would fix the newbies having noone to help them with the learning curve that is the main isle of Arelith.
I'm not sure where you're getting that. Skal is definitely a starting zone option. It works well for some reasons- it's more of a traditional D&D experience than Arelith proper so it's a good way in, and it's also a place you can make mistakes and not have it taint your character forever. Skal characters also tend to network well so when they do arrive on Arelith they have that background in common.

But mostly it's a place with a community that takes low level characters seriously and you can actually find each other, establish some drama, work together etc. That's a lot more difficult in Cordor where you're almost guaranteed to be overshadowed and ignored by disinterested epics if you're a new level 3, especially as a new player who doesn't know the ropes. Even when you meet other lowbies in Cordor they're almost always new toons from old players who are trying to rush through the content as fast as they can where Skal characters seem to (in my experience) enjoy the early levels longer and take their time.

I'd recommend any new player start there myself if only because you're far more likely to get support from others.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Mattamue » Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:11 pm

Eyeliner wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:06 pm
I'd recommend any new player start there myself if only because you're far more likely to get support from others.
+1 on this point. For all its cultural differences and flaws, Skal is a great place to get started and almost guarantee someone will be at the fire for writs. Or, get a reaction to RP and have people take it seriously. Much harder to break into the zeitgeist on the mainland.

Otherwise, Guld, seems like anywhere else on the surface to me. It is spread out. It isn't going to be like the fire on Skal or the hub. That's half the appeal to me is that it is a different less congested space.

Who is the audience for this post?


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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by TurningLeaf » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:00 pm

It doesn't work with the layout of the town but it would have been nice to see the Skal arrivals get their own special disembark spot that leads them right into the Guld hub zone, like the starter boat from Cordor does.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by chocolatelover » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:16 pm

There really isn't a problem getting off the boat in Guldorand and getting to the center of town, it's just that usually NO ONE IS THERE. So when you don't know what to do, you leave Guldorand by going back to the docks and leaving for Cordor or other places.

The problem is.......WHY ARE THERE SO FEW PLAYERS IN GULDORAND???
And I was just explaining some possible reasons why trying to get new players from Skal to go to Guldorand isn't working the way someone intended.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by chocolatelover » Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:18 pm

Ebonstar wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:40 pm
chocolatelover wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:06 pm
The problem still remains how to build the population of Guldorand. I suppose players starting in places other than Skal will have to give input on that.. why are they emigrating to Guldorand,? I still think not having a complete population from level 2 up is part of the problem.
there wont ever be a lvl 2 up for Guld simply because outside the gates is 20-30 content just to get to and from the city, just like you mentioned.
Guld is for epics and those who use the ship system alot.


So, perhaps the solution is to MAKE Guldorand another possible starting point. Yes, it will take some work. Divide up the sewers so that everything in the port area is level 1-7, and everything around the middle of town is Level 8-15. Divide up the seres in some areas. Stick another cave right outside the town. Put some crypts under the monastery. Put a small island off the coast that you find clues to and a small boat.

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by msheeler » Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:08 pm

Where do the people from skal land exactly?

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Yvesza » Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:13 pm

People from Skal basically right outside the boat rental in the freeport of Guldorand

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Re: Skal to Guldoran - Why it's not Working

Post by Ebonstar » Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:39 pm

chocolatelover wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:18 pm
Ebonstar wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:40 pm
chocolatelover wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:06 pm
The problem still remains how to build the population of Guldorand. I suppose players starting in places other than Skal will have to give input on that.. why are they emigrating to Guldorand,? I still think not having a complete population from level 2 up is part of the problem.
there wont ever be a lvl 2 up for Guld simply because outside the gates is 20-30 content just to get to and from the city, just like you mentioned.
Guld is for epics and those who use the ship system alot.


So, perhaps the solution is to MAKE Guldorand another possible starting point. Yes, it will take some work. Divide up the sewers so that everything in the port area is level 1-7, and everything around the middle of town is Level 8-15. Divide up the seres in some areas. Stick another cave right outside the town. Put some crypts under the monastery. Put a small island off the coast that you find clues to and a small boat.
nice ideas but Guld took years to put together as is. The places you are saying to divide up are already writ areas for nearly epics.

Maybe the answer is have Skal land at the crows nest or cordor
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