Defiler Clerics (and Death Domain) - Need some Finishing Touches

[ReverentBlade]

Been playing one of these. The spell refresh mechanic is fun, and I like being basically a negative energy sorceress. They feel very strong when they are working, but are very fragile when things start to go sideways. A missed touch attack is punishing, and they start to lose steam very quickly when AC outpaces their ability to touch them. Without any AC of their own to speak of, keeping that overheal bubble up is vital, and it evaporates quickly when you're not landing inflicts consistently. I don't know if this is necessarily a problem, given how good their sustain can be. This character is running elementals instead of undead for RP reasons, so that may be contributing to how delicate she feels. I also built for pure WIS, for spell DCs and plenty of spells. I'm starting to wonder if you are supposed to build them around STR.

That said, the class has some awkward rough edges. Lets take touch attacks and the light armor restriction. Defiler clerics seem like they are supposed to use cloth cleric robes, which would suggest making DEX an attractive choice for your secondary stat. Wrong. You have to land touch attacks to get the most from the Path. Touch attacks work only from STR, and this feels very odd to me. I've been playing this game for decades and I was still operating under the mistaken assumption that touch attacks could use Weapon Finesse.

This is on me, of course, but it goes to show how counter-intuitive it is. In a logical world, one would think that agility would be more important than raw power if your goal is only to poke their armor with a finger. In short, it feels weird that these robe wearers have to be built like beefcakes. I think they should get either Heavy Armor like normal clerics, or possibly consider adjusting touch attacks in general to benefit from Finesse.

Next: Divine Favor. This spell has absolutely zero feedback to the player that its running. No visual effect on the character model, no buffs on the character sheet, no buff icon in the top right. The one hour duration is awkward and unlike any other spell, so you can't even piggyback it onto another similar buff to use as reference. I have no idea if recasting it early refreshes the duration or does nothing and wastes the spell, there is no documentation on that. It is just really awkward to use. This is perhaps my biggest gripe about the class. However, if you fix it, please don't make it some obnoxiously evil looking thing that outs the character.

Divine Power is also low feedback, but at least I can see if my CON is +2 higher on the character sheet or not.

My next issue is with the Death Domain power, rather that Defiler cleric specifically. When you use your Death Domain power, the combat log says "So-an-So Strikes with Undead Arm". This is incorrect. My character does not have an Undead Arm. I understand that the ability is copy-pasted from the Palemaster ability, but I feel that making combat logs reflect the RP reality is very important. I cannot use this ability lest I am mistaken for a Palemaster, and I am unwilling to break character and go OOC to explain that the combat log is erroneous. I just don't use it. Fixing this would be very helpful for Death clerics that follow deities like Kelemvor Jergal, Osiris, ect.

Thanks for reading.

[kinginyellow]

I have a Defiler Cleric at 30 and I have some additional points to add to this.

The biggest problem the path has IMO is that its stronguest abilities come at the lower levels, I.E. being able to throw out auto-maximized auto-empowered inflict spells that lifesteal. The leveling process is awkward due to the lack of AC, but Defiler's mechanics clearly nudge you towards playing a necromancer since you also have an infinite source of healing during Divine Power in Inflict Moderate Wounds as a level 1 spell. You can essentially just sit behind your undead and heal them/finish off enemies.

The problem I find is in its ability to deal with the occasional unique mob and PVP.

Defiler essentially gets countered completely by running into something with NEP, since its 100% immunity to all negative energy damage. Clerics don't have breach, so either you invest in Lore to get scrolls of breach, or you multiclass bard to get UMD for wands of breach. The other option is taking abjuration foci so you can use greater dispel, but I find that even that can be unreliable. Otherwise, you either sacrifice your bread and butter being auto-empowered, or lifestealing and giving you overheal, to be able to get spell slots with breach. I get into why this isn't reliable either futher below.

NEP is plentiful on the server(PVE grinding alone can get you stacks of potions), as is death ward(though from the economy). So, your entire toolkit can get shut down incredibly easily and without the need for much investment. To the point where I almost (almost) consider if making a defiler cleric that still has an evocation focus to use implosion late game isn't a better idea. But, at that point you could be playing any other cleric path.

The reason I'm focusing on NEP so much, is because although having spell refunds for any spell slot beyond level 5 is good, the returns are too unreliable to really depend on them. Its nice to occasionally throw a Wail of the Banshee for free, but, naturally, your bread and butter on a class like this is going to be what is the most reliable. And for me that is level 3 Inflict Critical Wounds, which on a Defiler is absolutely devastating.

Remember, that if you multiclass to solve the UMD problem, you may not be solving the AC problem. And that is crippling on a class that relies on melee touch attacks and caster levels to not get its main 2 buffs (divine favor and divine power) stripped. It'd be like playing a Hideous Blow Warlock with 30 AC, with limited applications of hideous blow.

I still really like Defiler. I think its a very unique playstyle and lategame it can be -very- strong in PVE. But Invoker/Hemomancer is better, and has way more options and access to defensive tools and ways to strip wards.

If I wanted to give a suggestion that could maybe make it more viable, it would probably be nerfing the damage immunity to negative energy that NEP gives. Let's say we made it give spell immunity to Harm, and otherwise reduce negative energy damage by 50% instead. Inflict crit wounds would at best land for 60-70 damage per application on a Defiler Cleric. That is after it is empowered and maximized. Its a touch attack, which can be avoided, and its a -melee- touch attack, so the risks of trying to go for that are still there. Meanwhile, you'd still get destroyed by spell mantles without breach, but at least it means you'd have trouble against layered defences against characters with investment to get those defences, instead of -multiple- single spells in a layer of defence completely shutting you down, which also translates to how the class performs in PVE later.

Those same spells that already provide problems are also high on the breach list, unlike NEP, which requires multiple casts of Greater Breach on a fully warded caster to make your inflict spells do anything above 0 damage.

[ReverentBlade]

I've found the above to be true. NEP and Shadow Shield are hard counters that 27 cleric/3 monk can't really deal with.

[Helsing]

A caster cleric/monk can have 60+ AC at lvl 30, I wouldn't call it a build lacks of AC, actually the AC is better than most non div str mudanes.

Also with the fact it is so good at anything has no NEP (for example can kill a prismatic dragon in PGCC in 2 rounds with harm), a hard counter is a must imo.

[ReverentBlade]

"Hard counters" existing at all is already a symptom of an imbalanced system. Counters should be soft advantages that are situational. As it stands, the class' core toolkit is entirely shut down by low-level buffs that -literally everyone- has access to. On potions, even, the best form of consumable. You don't even have to full-round wand or scroll it. Even mid-level PvE caster mobs usually come with Shadow Shield already deployed. Undead mobs are also untouchable. That isn't a hard counter, that's just a broken class hamstrung by only really having a single gimmick.

I don't like the suggestion of making NEP anything less than 100% immunity, I don't think that's the solution. I do think that perhaps making the Defiler path convert a percentage of Inflict/Harm spells to a different damage type (Entropy? Bleeding?) could accomplish the same thing without wider ramifications to the meta. There's several spells that already have similar mechanics based on Spell Focus.

As an aside, I'm pretty sure the test creatures on the PGCC are just standard Original Campaign monsters from the palette. Relatively meaningless for testing.

[Helsing]

As an aside, I'm pretty sure the test creatures on the PGCC are just standard Original Campaign monsters from the palette. Relatively meaningless for testing.

Prismatic dragon is standard original campaign monster

[Kalthariam]

If things like NEP and Deathward weren't widely available, then necromancers, and death/defiler clerics would become nearly unstoppable.

If they didn't exist, you could basically just blast someone for 270-300 damage twice a turn, using touch attacks which make it easier to hit people. I can't think of any other class that can literally do 540-600 damage every round, and heal themselves for half that amount while doing it. Also with the defiler specialty divine favor, harm does have the power to just outright kill people it won't just drop people to one hp.

Rods of breaching exist, you don't need to multiclass to use them or the greater nullification gemstones, your not forced to dip bard or something to be able to breach (though it does make it easier to do so, and gives you access to other cookies like mass-haste harps)

Honestly. NEP and Deathward being widely available is perfectly fine, there are tools you can have to deal with them if they are that big of a deal (Or you know bring friends)

[ReverentBlade]

I never suggested a change to NEP or SS.

[kinginyellow]

What Reverent Blade Suggested, or what I suggested with NEP is what I think the path needs if it wants to actually be competitive.

Yes, Defilers can match a warlock in damage per round with touch attacks if built for it, but they have one damage type, warlock has 3. That damage type has multiple ways to be completely shut down, some of which are very deep in the breach list, and the class has no easy access to breach, while mundanes can just chug one of their dozens of NEP potions they'll get from killing npcs. Warlocks also get to use a beam from far away, while you need to be in melee.

Meanwhile, you can achieve similar results in both AC and Damage playing an Invoker, but not only do you have more damage types, you also have easy access to breach and less spells that just shut you down completely. You even have better access to AC since you get Epic Mage Armor and a gear in the crafting list that gives you -30% ASF on a 20% ASF armor to ensure you can not only wear it without auto-still spell, but you can also just wear a greensteel large shield with no penalty.

The main difference between invoker and defiler, is that on top of the usual suspects for any main caster, you also have NEP and SS just completely demolishing your ability to do anything. But the main culprit IMO is NEP, not SS, because if need be, you can breach SS since its high on the breach list.

Also let's be very clear here, the reason why no one would ever consider reducing the DI on NEP, or make defiler do mixed damage with its inflict spells that bypasses it, is because of Harm, not because of what defiler can do with inflict critical wounds. Harm is the culprit here, which is why Defiler can also achieve 600 damage per round (Although not against anything that matters. Endgame Bosses are immune to Harm and PCs won't die from Harm even if it would drop them below 1 HP). Which is why I suggested having NEP just outright give spell immunity against Harm.

Otherwise I see defiler remaining the way it is now. You will very rarely see people actually playing one, and it'll only really be good at PVE, since every other tool it has can be easily shut down with no equally as easily accessible counter, while even in PVE being outclassed by even other cleric paths since its best tools can't be used on endgame bosses, and undead just make your toolkit useless outside of giving a party cleric buffs and overheal with regen.

And if you think that would make the class OP, 70 damage per cast would only heal you for 35. You get countered by any dex build since your touch AB actually isn't that high especially if you went all in on Wisdom to actually have DCs for the other spells the path wants you to use(and spell slots), and even STR builds can still force a 33% chance to just outright waste a cast with concealment. There would still be a lot of counterplay against this class, and it would still be in my opinion low tier. Because you achieve the same gimick of healing while you damage other things playing a Feylock Enchanter with Eldritch Doom, which has absolutely no counter since its a saveless AOE, innate ASF reduction to use medium armor, and you can even combine it with eldritch euphony to have a level 21 bard song on top and you force concealment on anyone attacking you from applying doom because of epic feylock.

[WanderingPoet]

It takes 35 lore to use a scroll of greater spell breach, which will always clear shadow shield, and against the majority of PVP opponents it'll clear NEP too within two uses. NEP might be 19 down the breach list, but not all those spells actually stack, and some like globe of invulnerability and ethereal visage are rarely used. Of course, the action economy of needing to spend two turns just to start using your main damage is questionable, but once you've wiped their NEP then you can do 600 damage a round to them until they NEP again. Unfortunately there being NEP potions is an issue as potions are a lot faster than scrolls and other means to breach.

Though, Magic Domain does get lesser spell breach, so that's an option; especially for Velsharoon followers.

You can also summon a dracolich to get a free greater spell breach and a nice distraction. Or a balor, or pit fiend, since they'll be busy deleting your gate summon as soon as they can anyways it is a good distractor (or damager if they don't delete it).

Also keep in mind that clerics get invisibility purge which will clear most sources of concealment (improved invis), except for some more uncommon ones from shadowdancer or the rare person using displacement.

That said, I do agree that NEP counters the main damage of this path a little too well, and perhaps should be changed to something like 50%DI or 50/Negative DR with immunity to harm; rather than full 100%DI. NEP would still be useful, but given a defiler can dish out 188 damage per round with inflict critical (or 252 empowered) to a single target, it should have some way to counter it, like IGMS does (which only does 240 damage/round and shield blocks 10%-100% of the damage depending on feats).

Yes, Defilers can match a warlock in damage per round with touch attacks if built for it, but they have one damage type, warlock has 3. That damage type has multiple ways to be completely shut down, some of which are very deep in the breach list, and the class has no easy access to breach, while mundanes can just chug one of their dozens of NEP potions they'll get from killing npcs. Warlocks also get to use a beam from far away, while you need to be in melee.

It's a bit inaccurate to say that a defiler "can match a warlock in damage per round with touch attacks if built for it", as a a warlock can build for 27d6 if they wanted to go eldritch mastery, which averages the same damage as the Inflict Critical Wounds (average of 27d6 is 94.5, maximized inflict crit is 91-94 depending on dip, though EB can go much higher with good rolls) spell with no investment from the cleric. While clerics have a lot of other tools at their disposal besides just the inflict spells, the warlock rather pigeon holes themselves if they spend five of eight feats (assuming no dip, 2 less if they do and less damage overall; and two of the remaining go to greater/epic pact usually).

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I think the biggest lack for defilers is the lack of heavier armour to get better AC. You need str to hit, dex for AC, con to survive and wis for spells. With 10 base dex you can buff yourself to wear leather armour for a base AC (assuming armour skin and a tumble dip class) of 49. It's a bit low for a melee class. It's not really worth going monk as you lose the 2 from leathers and 6 from shield (which is the 8-10 you get from monk), but you could swing divine shield since you need Str anyways.

But since they're a melee focused class, they should be able to wear medium armour and medium shields to give them more viability and options.

It might also be interesting to give defilers something more tangible, like the ability to partially pierce NEP. Something like 15% per 10 levels. It would mean their harm instead of doing 600 damage per round would deal 270 and inflicts would deal 84. Painful, but a nice cookie for losing a dip, to be able to deal more negative damage. Actually better than percentage piece, it could be numeric pierce - 25 damage per 10 levels. That way inflict critical would do most of it's damage at 30, but harm wouldn't suddenly kill most people; and stuff like circle of doom and negative energy burst would be decent against enemy groups.

[kinginyellow]

It might also be interesting to give defilers something more tangible, like the ability to partially pierce NEP. Something like 15% per 10 levels. It would mean their harm instead of doing 600 damage per round would deal 270 and inflicts would deal 84. Painful, but a nice cookie for losing a dip, to be able to deal more negative damage. Actually better than percentage piece, it could be numeric pierce - 25 damage per 10 levels. That way inflict critical would do most of it's damage at 30, but harm wouldn't suddenly kill most people; and stuff like circle of doom and negative energy burst would be decent against enemy groups.

I really like this idea. If someone didn't want to cause wider meta ramifications by changing NEP, this gives defiler actual -path- progression rather than just caster level progression on top of its path choice.

Because like I said ealier, although its nice you get refunds on spells above caster level 5, the chance is too low to be reliable, so it makes sense to make the path buff its main thing over time. It would solve the NEP problem and actually make the path not be so frontloaded.

Otherwise, I also agree with your entire post. I think you did a better job pointing out the class flaws than I did. I would just point out as well that potions of warding are plentiful and you get them as loot drops from killing NPCs, while you need to engage with the economy for Wands and Scrolls of breach. Potions are inexpensive, and more plentiful, compared to breach scrolls which are in high demand by practically everyone.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

I'd rather see more damage spell options over all. It'd be cool if there was another spell that did less damage (but still enough to be useful and not just a wasted addition), but was ranged instead of touch attack, and wasn't negative energy. Something single target, and NOT impacted by "saves reduce damage". Saves reducing damage is why mages only use IGMS. We get limited spell slots, let us actually do something with them.

[WanderingPoet]

Otherwise, I also agree with your entire post. I think you did a better job pointing out the class flaws than I did. I would just point out as well that potions of warding are plentiful and you get them as loot drops from killing NPCs, while you need to engage with the economy for Wands and Scrolls of breach. Potions are inexpensive, and more plentiful, compared to breach scrolls which are in high demand by practically everyone.

That's a good point. I was thinking cost from an action economy standpoint (scrolls take 6 seconds, potions take 3), but from a raw gold cost perspective I agree. Potions are much easier and cheaper to obtain.

I'd rather see more damage spell options over all. It'd be cool if there was another spell that did less damage (but still enough to be useful and not just a wasted addition), but was ranged instead of touch attack, and wasn't negative energy. Something single target, and NOT impacted by "saves reduce damage". Saves reducing damage is why mages only use IGMS. We get limited spell slots, let us actually do something with them.

Pleeeease. Save versus anything spells are so unfun to use because you're either killing people that don't know how to play the game, or you have a 5% chance of doing something productive if they haven't dodged it by having hard counters.

[Kenji]

The following changes have yet to be merged but are being considered. Feel free to let me know your thoughts:

Specific to Defiler path:
(10 + effective Cleric levels)% of Negative Damage will be converted to Entropy Damage for Inflict/Harm/Circle of Doom if damaging a Target (healing Undead remain untouched)
100% of Entropy Damage is siphoned as HP
Half of the Remaining Negative Damage can still be siphoned as HP via Suffering Domain

This should allow up to 40% (looking at roughly 37%) of the damage to bypass NEP. It should also increase lifesteal by 36%.

Calculation Example:
Harm
Pre-Change
270 Damage base -> 324 Damage, 20% increase from Death Domain -> 162 Life Steal from Suffering Domain
0 vs NEP

Post-Change
324 * 37% = 119 Entropy Damage (assuming 27 levels of Defiler cleric and 3 level multiclass something else)
324 - 119 = 205 Negative Damage
102 Neg Lifesteal + 119 Ent Lifesteal = 221 Life Steal (36.42% increase)
119 vs NEP, which should be close to the 120 IGMS/Heal pot damage gate.

Note: Effective Cleric Level meant: Cleric, Harper/Zhent Priest, and Favored Soul levels (all 1:1)

If this is deemed too effective, the % of Entropy damage conversion can always be lowered.

This change should allow offensive Defilers to become not as reliant on sources of NEP removal. They also do not have to take Suffering in order to utilize the overheal.

Once the team has agreed upon a reasonable number, I will be merging this thread with the main Cleric Path/Domain feedback thread.

[kinginyellow]

It looks fine to me, my only real concern, as always, is harm.

I wonder just how tanky a Defiler ends up becoming if they can actually just cast harm in combat and not fail the concentration check because of that lifesteal. Especially if they're hasted since they can just throw two per round.

But its one of those things that might need adjusting once it gets implemented.

Having Defiler get entropy damage instead of changing NEP might just be the way to go which is in hand with what ReverentBlade originally suggested as one of the possible fixes. This also gives Defiler some sort of actual path progression (through the entropy damage they do) to their kit. Instead of just getting caster level progression.

[Helsing]

Hmmm does this also means we shall make Healer path cleric to convert cure wound and heal from positive to divine damage too? Why defiler is so special?

[Scylon]

I wouldn't mind seeing all negative spells get the same treatment.

There are a few "loose ends" in the cleric domains that needed to be tied off as well.

[Kenji]

I am looking for feedback pertaining to the recent defiler changes. Is the damage overperforming? Underperforming? Working as intended? Healing too much? Thanks in advance.

Hmmm does this also means we shall make Healer path cleric to convert cure wound and heal from positive to divine damage too?

That'd be a redundant and pointless change. It'll also be a slight nerf vs Vampire PCs who will likely get both defensive essences.

Why defiler is so special?

Defiler is special because it's my brainchild. I want the user experience to be fun, as long as the folks at the receiving end of it are receiving a reasonable amount of damage post-NEP, why not?

I wouldn't mind seeing all negative spells get the same treatment.

Can you list out all the negative damage spells that may be relevant to Defilers?

There are a few "loose ends" in the cleric domains that needed to be tied off as well.

You're gonna have to be more specific, bro.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Hmmm does this also means we shall make Healer path cleric to convert cure wound and heal from positive to divine damage too? Why defiler is so special?

positive damage is usually more effective than divine damage in PvE

[Aren]

The Undeath Domain gets "Improved Vampiric Touch" as a domain perk, but doesn't get access to vampiric touch.
To get access to Vampiric Touch, you need vermin domain, which incidentally also have the "Improved Vampiric Touch" perk.

[ReverentBlade]

Mine has Death and Suffering domains, and a 27 cleric/3monk build for reference. PvE feels in a decent place. The entropy damage helps considerably, a lot more things spawn with NEP pre-cast than I had any idea, and its nice to be able to do some damage to them. Without parsing the combat logs its hard to tell how much damage you're doing because the Negative and Entropy are split into two separate instances of damage, but it seems decent.

Sometimes I don't see the entropy damage apply at all, I'm not sure if that's because monsters are making saves or what.

Trying to use Circle of Doom for AoE is pointless, the spell is simply too weak to slot.

I am very squishy without the overheal bubble, sitting at 45ish AC with decent gear. HP is low at 360 HP because you have to gear for WIS/STR for the touch attacks, CON is a luxury. It would really seem to make more sense for DEX to work on touch attacks IMO.

They get a lot more powerful in a group (as a cleric should!) providing overheal bubbles. Hasting and chain-casting Inflict Critical on a boss behind some bubbled friends is very very fun. I do think the range for granting the bubbles on allies could be extended slightly, it can sometimes be temperamental and rely on positioning that isn't always possible with NWN's pathing.

I took Vampiric Feast for flavor but end up never using it. It doesn't hurt the enemies to be enough, and hurts allies too much, to be used commonly. I think for its power-level and cost it should probably be ally-safe. Blowing your capstone epic feat on a PvE dungeon group to see them survive at Badly Injured feels sad.

PvP is another story entirely. Shadow Shield doesn't care about the entropy damage since the spells are still Necromancy. Unless I can breach it somehow (using scrolls, since I have no UMD) I am dead in the water except for summons, Storm of Vengeance, and WoF. Storm doesn't pull as much weight as it used to since the spell DC changes. WoF won't help me survive 1v1 but has value in group play. The class' squishiness makes even getting that first scroll off pretty unlikely. Being basically helpless without a consumable made by another class feels marginal.

NEP still does a lot of work in PvP. Trading a full spell cast for 50-60 entropy damage on a Harm (assuming they don't have SS to begin with) is still not good action economy at all.

I am much more of a PvE player than a PvP one, so I may well be missing something here, in fairness.

Our Divine Favor still has no indication if it is up or down, since its effect is entirely custom and has no character sheet feedback. This is probably my biggest gripe living with the class daily. That said, I don't necessarily want a visual effects that "outs" the character. Something trivial like +1 AB or +1 to a skill so I can track uptime on my character sheet or get a buff icon would help quite a lot.

[MissEvelyn]

Our Divine Favor still has no indication if it is up or down, since its effect is entirely custom and has no character sheet feedback. This is probably my biggest gripe living with the class daily. That said, I don't necessarily want a visual effects that "outs" the character. Something trivial like +1 AB or +1 to a skill so I can track uptime on my character sheet or get a buff icon would help quite a lot.

Your character should glow red when Divine Favor is active. That and the little Saving Throw Increased icon to the left of your portrait, when clicked on, should reveal the timer left for Divine Favor.

[kinginyellow]

The damage of the inflict spells depends on the level of the enemy cast on rather than the level of the caster. Which can be a bit weird since it means you'll do 90 damage average per cast of Inflict Moderate Wounds on a level 30 enemy, but only 70 on lower level enemies regardless of your own caster level.

Shadow Shield making people immune to all of your inflict spells isn't as big of a deal since you can actually breach it even if you're resorting to scrolls to do so. Shadow Shield also has a visual indicator.

NEP in PVP is fine now. Before it just completely shut you down. Now, my 26/4 cleric hits for 106 damage through NEP with harm. That's pretty respectable, and while its still better to breach NEP before you start throwing out harms, remember, NEP has no visual indicator, so at least now you don't waste your harm uses if you do it to someone with NEP.

PVE in general is a lot more comfortable since things with NEP don't just become immune to all of your damage. And, again, they have no visual indicator if NEP is up so casting a spell at a NEP target doesn't feel as bad anymore.

My only gripe has to do with suffering domain.

Your overheal doesn't overflow to other targets. What do I mean by this? You need to be at 60 Overheal for your inflict spells to heal allies. If you're at 59 Overheal, you will overheal for 1 HP and the rest of your overheal is wasted. Since you're in melee its common for you to get hit with -something- be it splash damage from a random AOE spell or from some sort of one-use ability the enemies use. It is common to be at 60 Overheal, start casting something, get hit down to 55 overheal, and just heal back to 60 with no way to pass the rest of your healing to someone within the AOE for overheal sharing.

This is however a minor gripe. It happened before already before the entropy damage changes, and now its still the only thing that is inconsistent, but tbh being able to heal allies by stealing HP I always saw as more of an extra than a core feature of the class. And with how much a defiler cleric can self-heal because of the full lifesteal from Entropy Damage being combined with suffering's half negative energy lifesteal, it might be a bit too much healing if the overflow issue was fixed. Defiler is meant to be a "blaster" caster. It shouldn't be as consistent as a healer cleric at healing through dealing damage.

On the other hand, if it was possible to make -only- the negative energy damage convert to healing for allies, and the overflow be fixed there, it'd be fine. Because Defiler is converting negative energy into entropy which only affects the Defiler itself, and therefore the defiler would actually provide less healing with suffering domain to allies (due to less overall negative energy damage being done) than an unpathed cleric.

[Inf]

Your overheal doesn't overflow to other targets. What do I mean by this? You need to be at 60 Overheal for your inflict spells to heal allies.

Thanks for reporting that kinginyellow!

I've applied a fix that should resolve this on next server reset. Please let me know if you see any other unexpected behavior.

[kinginyellow]

W-wait, you're saying it wasn't a feature?

Welp. I tested it today. It works just fine. I was passing excess lifesteal to my summons and allies for the correct healing ammount. Overflow wasn't wasted.

Thank you for adressing it. It actually makes Suffering domain a lot more attractive as a domain choice even after the entropy lifesteal change now.