Spellmageddon Part 2

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In Sorrow We Trust
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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:52 am

-XXX- wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:47 am
In Sorrow We Trust wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:48 am
Deswe wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:55 am

Bit of Feedback on Negative Energy Flood.

The Spell does 1d8 / 3 CL Damage, meaning 9d8 for most builds and 10d8 for pure Caster. This leads to an average of 40 Damage, on a failed save.
It being a 5th Level Spell, most Enemies in "Higher" Level content will outright save on it 90% of the time which halfes the damage for an average of 20 and a Max of 40. Given the HP pools in these Areas the Spell becomes incredibly weak as the Damage is outright sad and only animates upon killing the Enemy.
I am not exactly fond of wasting 3-4 5th Levels and having to have to cease all other damage to not miss the killing blow, plus you need to cast at least one Circle 7 Control Undead AFTER the fact to even get to use it.

Really love the Spell and it's concept but it's simply too weak, when coupled with the forced 7th Circle Slot required on top of it it becomes even more so.

We'll be changing it to 1d6 per CL capped at 20d6.

I'd like to propose the same treatment for Withering Ray - same reasoning : 1d8 / 3 CL damage is really anemic even at max CL.
Furthermore, the spell is capped at 3 targets already so it could afford a much larger AoE - perhaps a similar SF interaction that we can see with curse storm might be OK here. Even gargantuan to colossal with ESF - the extra rays just don't trigger very often unless the enemies are completely clumped up ATM.

Size adjustment noted, we'll tinker with the damage. Since it hits multiple targets, it probably shouldn't be too strong.

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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Helsing » Sun Jan 29, 2023 2:49 pm

Good Character wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:32 am
Helsing wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:11 am

Voted for this, this spell seems to be the strongest new spell as it grants arcane classes that rely on AC(pm and spellsword) and any classes invest heavily into lore another tool to boost AC, which seems to be unnecessary.

It has no effect when cast from scrolls.

The only real bonus this spell is giving for the classes is +1 Dodge AC, as they possess other spells that supersede the other AC sources (e.g. Shield, Shadow Spell, Imbue Armor, etc.). PM also doesn't really benefit off this as most go far enough to get Epic Mage Armor.

My only reason bringing it up was that certain spellsword AC sources were deliberately nerfed.

As far as I know, Mage armor's dodge AC stacks with Epic mage armor, so I think Greater one will stack with Epic mage armor too, that's extra +1 AC.

Hazard wrote: Doing that on a non-mundane requires constant stops to rest, chugging alcohol whenever your spells start wearing off/get dispelled, and with casters, you're going to get through that dungeon once in the time a 25/5 can get through it 10+ times.

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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by -XXX- » Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:09 pm

In Sorrow We Trust wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:52 am

Size adjustment noted, we'll tinker with the damage. Since it hits multiple targets, it probably shouldn't be too strong.

Cool! Because in its current form Withering Ray is basically a bad Sound Lance (at one higher spell level for wiz/sorc). Since the spell both offers a save for half damage AND requires a successful ranged touch attack, it could get away with a bit more oomph IMO (or maybe consider removing the save for 1/2).


Frame of reference : direct damage level 4 spells that hit multiple targets:

Ice Storm (CL30) : 3d6 + 12d6 MAv 52.5, AoE: 6.67m/22ft, save: no
Crimson Lightning : 15d6 MAv 52.5, AoE: 6.09m/20ft, save: reflex 1/2
Sound Lance (Ele 4) : 10d8 MAv 45, AoE: 3.33m/11ft, save: no (fort partial vs deafness)
Withering Ray (CL30) : 10d8 MAv 45, AoE(max 3 targets): 3.33m/11ft, save: fort 1/2, successful ranged touch attack required


Further comparison :

Ice Storm (CL27) : 3d6 + 11d6 Av 49, AoE: 6.67m/22ft, save: no
Gedlee's Electric Loop (spell level 2) : 10d8 MAv 45, AoE; 1.67m/5.47ft, save: reflex 1/2
Withering Ray (CL27) : 9d8 Av 40.5, AoE(max 3 targets): 3.33m/11ft, save: fort 1/2, successful ranged touch attack required


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:30 pm

-XXX- wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:09 pm
In Sorrow We Trust wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:52 am

Size adjustment noted, we'll tinker with the damage. Since it hits multiple targets, it probably shouldn't be too strong.

Cool! Because in its current form Withering Ray is basically a bad Sound Lance (at one higher spell level for wiz/sorc). Since the spell both offers a save for half damage AND requires a successful ranged touch attack, it could get away with a bit more oomph IMO (or maybe consider removing the save for 1/2).


Frame of reference : direct damage level 4 spells that hit multiple targets:

Ice Storm (CL30) : 3d6 + 12d6 MAv 52.5, AoE: 6.67m/22ft, save: no
Crimson Lightning : 15d6 MAv 52.5, AoE: 6.09m/20ft, save: reflex 1/2
Sound Lance (Ele 4) : 10d8 MAv 45, AoE: 3.33m/11ft, save: no (fort partial vs deafness)
Withering Ray (CL30) : 10d8 MAv 45, AoE(max 3 targets): 3.33m/11ft, save: fort 1/2, successful ranged touch attack required


Further comparison :

Ice Storm (CL27) : 3d6 + 11d6 Av 49, AoE: 6.67m/22ft, save: no
Gedlee's Electric Loop (spell level 2) : 10d8 MAv 45, AoE; 1.67m/5.47ft, save: reflex 1/2
Withering Ray (CL27) : 9d8 Av 40.5, AoE(max 3 targets): 3.33m/11ft, save: fort 1/2, successful ranged touch attack required

We'll be updating the damage to:

10 (base damage) + 1d4 per cl (capping at 20d4).

We also made sure there's no touch attack element as it should be either fort, or touch attack, and not both.

Vittoria Veleno
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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by WanderingPoet » Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:02 am

Amnesy wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:44 am
WanderingPoet wrote:
Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:58 pm

Another bit of feedback on Greater Chromatic Orb - it has both a ranged touch attack and a save, which makes it generally underpowered for it's level.

52.5 average damage and a 1-2 round debuff if you hit them, and they fail the fort save. Though it does look like it ignores spell resistance, which is in it's favour - those with spell resistance usually have no issues having spellcraft and thus super high saves to ignore 26 damage per shot.

Compare to
Sound Lance (level 3/4 spell): average of 45 damage, ONLY a fort save, and does aoe damage.
Ice Dagger (level 1 spell): Average damage of 50, only reflex save
Moonbeam (level 3 spell): Average damage of 42, only will save to resist stun, always does full damage.

I think it'd be more in line with other similar spells if the damage was not halved on successful save, only the debuff removed; after all you still have to land a hit with it.

Greater Chromatic Orb: saving throw is only against the effect, damage is not affected.

Oh! In that case, the description requires an update, as it specifically says the below IG.

Description: An elemental orb launches from the caster's palm towards its target. The caster must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit. Enemies struck take 1d6 elemental (based on the type of element: Acid, Fire, Cold, Electric, Sonic) damage per caster level (up to a maximum of 15d6).
The target is given a fortitude save. If they fail the save, they suffer an additional effect based on the element used and take full damage. If they pass the save, there is no additional effect and they only take half damage.

Acid: Blinded for 1 round
Cold: -10% Movement Speed for 2 rounds
Fire: -2 to all attack rolls for 2 rounds
Electrical: Stunned for 1 round
Sonic: Deafened and dazed for 1 round.

Actually this doesn't seem to represent the spell well at all on the PGCC. It seems to do 3d6 of each of those five elements (makes sense), but the way it's written suggests that you get a choice of an element, which does 15d6 of one element and then an additional effect based on that element choice. Rather, the additional effect seems to be random?

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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Amnesy » Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:49 am

WanderingPoet wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:02 am

Actually this doesn't seem to represent the spell well at all on the PGCC. It seems to do 3d6 of each of those five elements (makes sense), but the way it's written suggests that you get a choice of an element, which does 15d6 of one element and then an additional effect based on that element choice. Rather, the additional effect seems to be random?

It picks the leading element at random and does up to 15d6 damage. The damage is then split across elements where the majority is done by the leading element and the rest by other elements.


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by epsi » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:29 pm

How long summon warding last and how remove it? Becouse now i can't make dungeons like previous. I lose undeads and can't summon more.

Image


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:33 pm

epsi wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:29 pm

How long summon warding last and how remove it? Becouse now i can't make dungeons like previous. I lose undeads and can't summon more.

Image

This seems like a bug. I haven't heard any other reports of this, but maybe the timer is just wrong.

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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by WanderingPoet » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:49 pm

Amnesy wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:49 am
WanderingPoet wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 2:02 am

Actually this doesn't seem to represent the spell well at all on the PGCC. It seems to do 3d6 of each of those five elements (makes sense), but the way it's written suggests that you get a choice of an element, which does 15d6 of one element and then an additional effect based on that element choice. Rather, the additional effect seems to be random?

It picks the leading element at random and does up to 15d6 damage. The damage is then split across elements where the majority is done by the leading element and the rest by other elements.

This makes sense! I hadn't realized that's how it worked from it's description but I like that.

Perhaps the description could say...

Spell Level: Wizard / Sorcerer 4, Spellsword 4, Warlock 4, Elementalist 4
Spell School: Evocation
Descriptor: [Fire][Acid][Cold][Sonic][Electrical]
Components: Verbal, somatic
Range: Medium
Area of effect: Single
Subject of effect: A single enemy creature.
Duration: Instant
Save: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: No

Description: An elemental orb launches from the caster's palm towards its target. The caster must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit. Enemies struck take 1d6 elemental damage per caster level (up to a maximum of 15d6). The main element will be chosen at random from Acid, Fire, Cold, Electric, or Sonic and do the majority of the damage, while the rest is split evenly among the remaining.
The target is given a fortitude save. If they fail the save, they suffer an additional effect based on the main element. If they pass the save, there is no additional effect.

Acid: Blinded for 1 round
Cold: -10% Movement Speed for 2 rounds
Fire: -2 to all attack rolls for 2 rounds
Electrical: Stunned for 1 round
Sonic: Deafened and dazed for 1 round.

Path_of_Play wrote:Fear, intimidation, anger - All these, the tyrant's tools.
Laughter, encouragement, play - not simply just for fools.
These tools reveal,
More is learned,
From another in an hour of play,
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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Deswe » Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:23 pm

In Sorrow We Trust wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:33 pm
epsi wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:29 pm

How long summon warding last and how remove it? Becouse now i can't make dungeons like previous. I lose undeads and can't summon more.

Image

This seems like a bug. I haven't heard any other reports of this, but maybe the timer is just wrong.

Had the exact same thing happen in the Mind's Eye (Lowerdark Illithid Lair) yesterday. Couldn't summon Undead after a Sentinel cast banishment, even after a couple minutes.


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by -XXX- » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:30 am

It'd have been great if the warding from banishment gave a distinct message from dismissal:

The person using banishment doesn't always have to be within the summoner's LOS (they can even be on the other end of the map) and then there's no way of knowing which warding is active.


Frankly, I'm not overly fond of this particular change - let's face it, nobody's actually casting these spells or using them to dismiss summons. Summon warding is their only practical use and the consumables that are there (mainly magical books and the ring of sealing) can be used to cast both. This change merely swapped banishment and dismissal as one being the go to option and the other the disregarded one, reducing any remaining incentives not to go the boring and safe route of choosing planar conduit over mummy dust for the builds that have that option.

Before it was fine - conju pets could be blocked while undead pets could be turned. Turning conju pets requires a build investment whereas blocking both is now an option that comes only at the cost of extra charges from consumables (which is barely noticable unless somebody's literally PvPing summoners on daily basis).


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by -XXX- » Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:45 am

Sustain: cannot be brewed, shows the following message:
Image
Which is wrong, because scribe scroll works.


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Kirito2 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:52 pm

Can we have the blood cost to cast create blood homunculus be applied AFTER the spell is cast?

Currently having 480 hp means you wont get a T3 homunculus (as the damage is applied first, bringing you down to 465ish, too little to make the T3 which needs 480.

Thanks :)


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:55 am

Kirito2 wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:52 pm

Can we have the blood cost to cast create blood homunculus be applied AFTER the spell is cast?

Currently having 480 hp means you wont get a T3 homunculus (as the damage is applied first, bringing you down to 465ish, too little to make the T3 which needs 480.

Thanks :)

The script uses the amount of damage dealt to you. It won't check after the damage was already applied.

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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Kirito2 » Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:02 pm

I might not have explained myself well..

  • Currently, character starting with 480hp casts create blood homunculus,

  • Gets dealt approx 15 points of damage due to casting a blood arcana spell. - now has 465hp

  • Create blood homonculus deals 50% damage to caster (232hp) and creates a T2 critter as less than 240hp was lost.

My request was that the 50% damage occurs first, before the blood arcana damage occurs - that way a 480hp caster would create a T3.


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by In Sorrow We Trust » Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:08 am

Kirito2 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:02 pm

I might not have explained myself well..

  • Currently, character starting with 480hp casts create blood homunculus,

  • Gets dealt approx 15 points of damage due to casting a blood arcana spell. - now has 465hp

  • Create blood homonculus deals 50% damage to caster (232hp) and creates a T2 critter as less than 240hp was lost.

My request was that the 50% damage occurs first, before the blood arcana damage occurs - that way a 480hp caster would create a T3.

This is a bug. it'll be fixed.

Vittoria Veleno
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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Amnesy » Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:18 am

Kirito2 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:02 pm

I might not have explained myself well..

  • Currently, character starting with 480hp casts create blood homunculus,

  • Gets dealt approx 15 points of damage due to casting a blood arcana spell. - now has 465hp

  • Create blood homonculus deals 50% damage to caster (232hp) and creates a T2 critter as less than 240hp was lost.

My request was that the 50% damage occurs first, before the blood arcana damage occurs - that way a 480hp caster would create a T3.

I have tested it on live server and could not replicate the issue.
For a moment I thought it could be hemo stack being generated damaging but that is max 3 dmg not 15.
If that reoccurs, could you send me DM with server, class, and snap of the combat log when damage is applied twice?


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Kirito2 » Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:52 pm

I've only tried it on the PGCC server for level 3, I'll try and test it on the live (but it will be lower teers...)
Will send pics.


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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Aren » Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:05 pm

=== Frigid Darkness ===
Spell Level: Wizard / Sorcerer 2, Spellsword 2, Warlock 2, Hemomancer 2, Hexblade 2
Spell School: Necromancy
Descriptor: [Negative] [Cold]
Components: Verbal, somatic
Range: Long
Area of effect: Single
Subject of effect: A single creature.
Duration: Instant
Save: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Description: A sphere of darkness shoots out towards the target. The caster makes a ranged touch attack. On a hit, the subject takes 1d10 cold damage and 1d10 entropic damage and has its movement speed reduced by 5% for 1d2 rounds.

This spell seem to either be missing a projectile animation, or have some strange built in lag. Every cast seem to have a .5 - 1 sec delay from spell cast finish to damage is done.

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Re: Spellmageddon Part 2

Post by Aren » Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:32 pm

Phantom Wound and Mass Phantom Wound does nothing. The saves happen, but no effect.

".. the other number that isn't 18." - Jack Oat
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