Spellmageddon Part 2

[Good Character]

While a 8th spell slot is a significant investment for spellswords certainly some will use it, especially if they can buff before PvP starts.

Should spellswords be expecting a nerf from the additional +1 AC Greater Magic Armor gives?

[Inkish]

Blur - Yes. 1000% yes. Maybe the original Blur should be shunted into a new spell though (or this version renamed Mirror Image)? It was kinda cheesy against certain mobs, so unsure if should be shunted.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why but I don't understand why anyone would use Blur past level 6. It's like a budget version of Improved Invis, which is exceedingly common and easy to get a hold of. Be it wands, cloak or dusts. It's also worse than displacement which only lasts rounds/level.

Pacifying shackles is really cool, but could it be opened up to cleric/FS? It's flavourful but would be more interesting to not be locked to paladins who will likely not want to spend level 4 slots to use it.

Overall a lot of really cool spells here!

---

I think several of these spells could/should be added to the elementalist list. They only received 2 spells while most classes got at least 10 other than hexblade (6) and druid (8); and many of these are very much elementally aligned.

Dehydrate, Blackfire, Sustain, Frigid Darkness and Chill Touch all make sense to be part of the elementalist spell list.

Dehydrate, Blackfire, Sustain, Frigid Darkness, and Chill Touch are all necromancy spells. They do not make sense to be part of that list, as these are likely more 'corrupt mockeries' of the elements, not the elements themselves.

[Exordius]

Dehydrate is not showing up on the cleric spell list. Also stop heart is awesome, makes builds which are otherwise invincible killable again.

[Miaou]

These are all really neat spells. I like the addition of some creative spells that serve niche situations but allow for more options like vengeful mount, or options that may be more thematic for certain character concepts like chill touch or Wraith Stride. I do hope we get more non-necromantic spells in the future, it seems like most of the newer spells that have come out greatly lean towards necromancy. Which is cool! Just more toys for all. (Always want more power word spells.)

For Serene Visage, it almost screams warlock yet isn't a warlock spell. A patron gifting their warlocks the ability to magically disguise seems right in line with a class which has heavy attachment to disguises, bluff, and perform. Perhaps it can be added to their spell table?

[MissEvelyn]

I love these spells, and I'm really hoping some of them will get implemented as Domain spells, replacing other less relevant ones.

I love LOVE how there are RP focused spells in this addition. Thank you devs so much!

[garrbear758]

Since a lot of you clearly missed it, there is a cantrip that every caster gets which cancels stop heart and provides immunity for 1 minute. Potions of this won't be hard to find especially since every sorc gets brew pot for free.

[CptnCandyass]

Again, keep in mind displacement is rounds/level where blur is turns per level. If you want, you can even have both.

Llikewise, it seems blades of fire is unrestricted, so might have niche use.

Falselife as it seems is worded rather that its d10+1 per CL, but not 30d10+30 but rather d10+30 for 30 CL if I understood right with Amnesy.

Sustain is more a counter to stop heart as stop heart ignores deathward and has a secondary effect, so PWK is not just straight better than stop heart as PWK respects deathward

Recommend swapping False Life's description to say that it grants 1 per CL + 1d10 rather than 1d10 +1 per caster level.

Also would love to see more cleric spells that are NOT necromancy. More Evocation and Illusion would be grand.

[zeroth]

Can we please have the old disintegrate d12 per CL back please!!

There is only like that one unique spell in the wrong arcanum.

[-XXX-]

Strangulate reads Reflex & Fort save, but what portion of the spell does the fortitude save against?

Description: An invisible hand reaches out from the caster, grabbing the subject's throat and strangling them. The target makes a Reflex save. If they fail, the target is restrained and can't speak or cast spells with verbal components. If the caster attempts to do anything else while the spell is active, their concentration may break and the spell may end. The spell takes no effect against creatures that do not need to breathe, like oozes, elementals, undead, constructs, air genasi.

[In Sorrow We Trust]

Strangulate reads Reflex & Fort save, but what portion of the spell does the fortitude save against?

Description: An invisible hand reaches out from the caster, grabbing the subject's throat and strangling them. The target makes a Reflex save. If they fail, the target is restrained and can't speak or cast spells with verbal components. If the caster attempts to do anything else while the spell is active, their concentration may break and the spell may end. The spell takes no effect against creatures that do not need to breathe, like oozes, elementals, undead, constructs, air genasi.

Nothing. Description typo.

[-XXX-]

Nothing. Description typo.

OK, but this is what the combat log shows on PGCC:

[Helsing]

While a 8th spell slot is a significant investment for spellswords certainly some will use it, especially if they can buff before PvP starts.

Should spellswords be expecting a nerf from the additional +1 AC Greater Magic Armor gives?

Voted for this, this spell seems to be the strongest new spell as it grants arcane classes that rely on AC(pm and spellsword) and any classes invest heavily into lore another tool to boost AC, which seems to be unnecessary.

[Good Character]

Voted for this, this spell seems to be the strongest new spell as it grants arcane classes that rely on AC(pm and spellsword) and any classes invest heavily into lore another tool to boost AC, which seems to be unnecessary.

It has no effect when cast from scrolls.

The only real bonus this spell is giving for the classes is +1 Dodge AC, as they possess other spells that supersede the other AC sources (e.g. Shield, Shadow Spell, Imbue Armor, etc.). PM also doesn't really benefit off this as most go far enough to get Epic Mage Armor.

My only reason bringing it up was that certain spellsword AC sources were deliberately nerfed.

[Kalthariam]

Since a lot of you clearly missed it, there is a cantrip that every caster gets which cancels stop heart and provides immunity for 1 minute. Potions of this won't be hard to find especially since every sorc gets brew pot for free.

No, didn't miss that at all.

Just more inventory bloat for a needless spell that didn't need to exist. It's not like necromancy is lacking in toys or debilitating spells.

It's still a save or die spell that ignores deathward, doesn't matter how you spin it, it's a save or die spell. Which are always not fun.

[WanderingPoet]

Since a lot of you clearly missed it, there is a cantrip that every caster gets which cancels stop heart and provides immunity for 1 minute. Potions of this won't be hard to find especially since every sorc gets brew pot for free.

As listed, neither Elementalist or Hexblade get it, actually!

Blur - Yes. 1000% yes. Maybe the original Blur should be shunted into a new spell though (or this version renamed Mirror Image)? It was kinda cheesy against certain mobs, so unsure if should be shunted.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why but I don't understand why anyone would use Blur past level 6. It's like a budget version of Improved Invis, which is exceedingly common and easy to get a hold of. Be it wands, cloak or dusts. It's also worse than displacement which only lasts rounds/level.

Pacifying shackles is really cool, but could it be opened up to cleric/FS? It's flavourful but would be more interesting to not be locked to paladins who will likely not want to spend level 4 slots to use it.

Overall a lot of really cool spells here!

---

I think several of these spells could/should be added to the elementalist list. They only received 2 spells while most classes got at least 10 other than hexblade (6) and druid (8); and many of these are very much elementally aligned.

Dehydrate, Blackfire, Sustain, Frigid Darkness and Chill Touch all make sense to be part of the elementalist spell list.

Dehydrate, Blackfire, Sustain, Frigid Darkness, and Chill Touch are all necromancy spells. They do not make sense to be part of that list, as these are likely more 'corrupt mockeries' of the elements, not the elements themselves.

Sure, but they also get bigbies hands spells which have nothing to do with elements. Corrupted elements still make sense for elementalists.

[garrbear758]

Since a lot of you clearly missed it, there is a cantrip that every caster gets which cancels stop heart and provides immunity for 1 minute. Potions of this won't be hard to find especially since every sorc gets brew pot for free.

No, didn't miss that at all.

Just more inventory bloat for a needless spell that didn't need to exist. It's not like necromancy is lacking in toys or debilitating spells.

It's still a save or die spell that ignores deathward, doesn't matter how you spin it, it's a save or die spell. Which are always not fun.

Implosion and weird ignore death ward and have a higher dc and are aoes.

[Kalthariam]

Since a lot of you clearly missed it, there is a cantrip that every caster gets which cancels stop heart and provides immunity for 1 minute. Potions of this won't be hard to find especially since every sorc gets brew pot for free.

No, didn't miss that at all.

Just more inventory bloat for a needless spell that didn't need to exist. It's not like necromancy is lacking in toys or debilitating spells.

It's still a save or die spell that ignores deathward, doesn't matter how you spin it, it's a save or die spell. Which are always not fun.

Implosion and weird ignore death ward and have a higher dc and are aoes.

all save or die (Also known as save or suck) spells are awful. We don't need more that ignore deathward, though I'm pretty sure weird is effected by mind immunity? So it has a long term counter.

Just because other spells exist that are similar doesn't mean we need MORE of those spells.

Necromancy has enough debilitating spells, pretty sure they already have save or die spells to boot.

[Goldeen]

PC Target: If the target is a PC and both target and caster are not in combat, they are instead given a chance to allow themselves to be shackled.

If the PC chooses not to resist, no checks are made and the duration is extended to 1 turn / level. While shackled, the subject is permitted to move at a decreased rate of speed, but may not cast spells or perform actions.

If the subject chooses to resist, it will roll the save as normal.

The DC of this spell takes into account the higher of either the Paladin's Strength modifier or their Charisma modifier and Abjuration spell focuses apply. Additionally, if the caster attempts to do anything else while the spell is active, their concentration may break and the spell may end.

By not in combat, I'm assuming you mean non-hostile to each other. If that is the case, please consider removing the latter part where they roll the save as normal without any !hostile, since it is a near loophole around declaring PvP. If someone chooses to resist, PvP needs to be declared and then it can work as normal.

This spell can be good for roleplay purposes, but roleplay is optional. PvP is not. Therefore, it needs to be separated as thus.

[Exordius]

Save or suck is fine and part of the game. Anyone who has them should use them as its the logical thing to do. If you dont want to be affected by them then you need to put effort into defending against them. PVP is not fair nor should it be, some things are going to suck and that's just how it goes.

[Hazard]

I love save or die necromancy and spells, and yes I do mean whether I am the user or the victim. It's a huge part of 3.5 that I adore.

Necromancy 'should' be terrifying. It's a huge sacrifice to be one, the whole server wants you dead, unless you're willing to limit yourself to a dirty hole in the ground, and even then you have to go on adventures where you are likely to meet other adventurers who will beat the snot out of you for having undead.

The counters are easily and cheaply accessable by everyone.

And I think the reason for necromancy getting so many spells is quite obvious. When compared to other schools necromancy was severely lacking, especially for non-wizards. Ever tried playing a necromancer cleric, and want to use spells appropriate to the theme? There's barely anything in your spellbook at all, besides animations (until now).

There are spells far more powerful and difficult to protect against that are save or die/suck, than stop heart. I really doubt it's going to be much of a problem. You're also targeting fort, the most commonly beefed up save and it's a spell (subject to spellcraft). You're basically going to be fishing for 1s against most builds anyway.

[Kalthariam]

Necromancy already has save or die spells.

they don't need more.

Save or Die spells are probably some of the most boring and binary spells in the entire game, I have no idea why people like them.

Necromancy didn't need more toys they've already got everything and the kitchen sink. It's not a weak school, it's quite powerful, probably one of the most powerful, and social status doesn't exactly rank high on the list of things important to necromancers, so it's really not that big of a drawback.

Besides, monterous races are forced to sit in that "Dirty little hole in the world" and do just fine.

Point is, heart stop is unnessessary, we don't need more Save or Die spells, just because it drops you to 0 hp and unconcious instead of just flat dead, doesn't change the fact your now one love tap from dead and can't do anything about it.

1 turn's worth of immunity to a save or die spell is hardly what I'd consider a counter, that's assume you even realize you got hit by it, and can react to the failed save in the heat of combat.

[Svrtr]

Since a lot of you clearly missed it, there is a cantrip that every caster gets which cancels stop heart and provides immunity for 1 minute. Potions of this won't be hard to find especially since every sorc gets brew pot for free.

Partially the concern too is its an extra tax on top of more for mundies in particular who will need to both find a sorc to sell them AND to hopefully sell them at an equitable price, and not make it an extortionate one. On top of that, wizard only gets 4 cantrips known but will now have a list of 9 or 10 cantrip options, sorc is little better off with 6 known.

it already feels mildly unpleasant to have a deathward ignoring "save or die", that then requires a cantrip to circumvent (both the action to do so for action economy and the ability to source it), and then putting this tax on mundies further to find it and get someone with brew pot to brew it and hopefully not sell it at an extortionate price. All in all, while wanting to provide a way to get save or dies that aren't respecting DW is somewhat understandable, having them at all feels unpleasant because nothing sucks mroe than "Well guess I'm dead".

[Dreams]

My gripe is that when things keep getting balanced to cut out users of Wands/Scrolls, it directly impacts Loremaster which is the class made to do use them.

[Alyxnia]

A clear lack of testing before pushing this update led to the server crashing so heavily and repeatedly that a 10+ hour rollback was needed. This effectively wasted my entire day off of playing and I am sure just about everyone else affected is rather unhappy with this as well.

I get that when you have a big update you're excited to merge it as soon as you think it's ready, but please test your code, thanks.

[Yvesza]

The paladin spell "Pacifying Shackle" is something people have been desperate for, for a long time now. It'd be lovely if it was availiable to clerics / FS's also, if only to make them far more reliably produced via scrolls.