The Inevitable Skal Change Feedback Thread

[DM Poppy]

I doubt any amount of mechanical tweaking is going to fix a cultural problem to be honest. Reactionary sanctions against players pushing the boundaries they are provided to the limit, and sometimes beyond I suppose, isn't going to suddenly make people act better, it's just a new boundary to be pushed.

I've seen people mention player fatigue but I'm wondering, is DM fatigue maybe also an issue? It would be very understandable, given the long history of the PW. I certainly had the impression that some DMs are pretty much experiencing siege mentality of sorts in regards to the players when I played here during COVID and I suppose that might have gotten better rather than worse?

Are the DMs taking care of themselves??

We are already seeing improvements on what we desired with this process.

It's not about sanctions and limitations.

It's about providing a fair and fun place to play and we've just lowered our workload by automating the intended setting over manually controlling it.

Everyone has the same handicap and now it's much easier to intervene when we are needed to, with the small team we are.

[Khorvale]

I doubt any amount of mechanical tweaking is going to fix a cultural problem to be honest. Reactionary sanctions against players pushing the boundaries they are provided to the limit, and sometimes beyond I suppose, isn't going to suddenly make people act better, it's just a new boundary to be pushed.

I've seen people mention player fatigue but I'm wondering, is DM fatigue maybe also an issue? It would be very understandable, given the long history of the PW. I certainly had the impression that some DMs are pretty much experiencing siege mentality of sorts in regards to the players when I played here during COVID and I suppose that might have gotten better rather than worse?

Are the DMs taking care of themselves??

We are already seeing improvements on what we desired with this process.

It's not about sanctions and limitations.

It's about providing a fair and fun place to play and we've just lowered our workload by automating the intended setting over manually controlling it.

Everyone has the same handicap and now it's much easier to intervene when we are needed to, with the small team we are.

That's great, hopefully it'll take a load off the staff

[slayer 1.0]

What if once you hit the 19th level you can leave or, you’re given MoD? You’re still able to level to 30 but with a MoD on your character from there on out.

[DM Poppy]

What if once you hit the 19th level you can leave or, you’re given MoD? You’re still able to level to 30 but with a MoD on your character from there on out.

You're describing the system I just got rid of

[bunicorn]

Skal Present Date -

All new Characters are locked to level 19 automatically.

All existing Characters are being locked to 19. (Epics that do not want to be lowered and locked have had numerous warnings over a week to leave. If they are on Skal when we are locking, they'll be lowered if they fail to leave immediately.)

Visitors have conditions they must follow and it's much easier for us to enforce with the surrounding pcs being level 19 and marked as Skal starters.

Skal Future Plans -

Additional scripts to automatically cap everyone who remains on Skal.

Additional scripts to automatically lower visitors who stay beyond a reasonable time. XP is restored on tick.

Changes to property ownership. Property cannot be owned over by Characters over 19.

A handicap feature has been discussed. But their are no plans to introduce it without feedback on the intended system once in place.

One additional thing that could make it easier for players passing through Skal is shortening the refresh timer on the shops. One week is very long for a place so transient. Making it 24-72 hours would give more people a chance at getting one.

[Ork]

I've got to say, after so many weeks of this active, this has been a net positive change for Skal. It is so lively right now!

It would be awesome for shops and quarters to turn over once someone leaves, but I don't think that's imperative. If we could get our temp stalls to last 24hours or maybe more temp stalls elsewhere in the settlement I think that might answer our merchant needs.

[Paint]

As much as I have knee-jerk reactions to changes, I -try- to admit when I'm wrong, and I can concur with Ork. The apocalypse I envisioned has not come to pass. Skal seems to be a lot more chill, and there's less interlopers. I mean -- as chill as Skal can be, anyways.

Edit:
There IS still debate, at least on discord, about the formation of a so-called 'L19' meta, something I'm pretty staunchly against. I have heard a lot of people theorizing optimized L19 builds, and I am still concerned that people are going to start debating about their class of choice not being 'balanced' at L19 on the forums, but all of this isn't really core to the issues of Skal that were solved.

[Ork]

I'm not sure how L19 "meta" has any difference than L30 "meta". The truth at L19 is that anyone with mords or dispel is going to be able to take down most folks. It might just be a tad more balanced than L30.

[Paint]

I'm not sure how L19 "meta" has any difference than L30 "meta". The truth at L19 is that anyone with mords or dispel is going to be able to take down most folks. It might just be a tad more balanced than L30.

My primary concern with a second meta forming on Arelith is that it's going to make an already often confusing and nuanced conversation about the mechanics of Arelith even more of a pain to keep up on and flood the forums with dialogue about what should be a goalpost for people to pass rather than a sticking point to be obsessed over. It also might require extra work for the devs if they choose to respond to any future updates that make a class 'broken' or 'worthless' at level 19, but I guess that's not -my- problem.

IMO, the options for what is and isn't good at l19 are a lot more polarizing, and save or dies are a lot more feasible, which means builds that naturally get higher saves are even more desirable at l19. I guess this isn't necessarily a problem, but I wouldn't say the meta is balanced if balance refers to the viability of every class on Arelith to perform equally well at 19. If it doesn't, then I guess balance means whatever you want it to.

Clearly, the level 30 meta already has enough problems achieving that. No need to throw another stick in the spokes.

[tessimon]

I think the thought is:

Assuming all player/build skill being equal, a level 30 is more powerful against a group of level 16s than a level 19 would be.

I pick level 16 due to that being the "higher end" of Skal PvE. It's not so much 30 vs 30 or 19 vs 19 but [30/19] vs 16-19ish.

Having 10+ levels on that is a sizable advantage.

[AstralUniverse]

I'm not sure how L19 "meta" has any difference than L30 "meta". The truth at L19 is that anyone with mords or dispel is going to be able to take down most folks. It might just be a tad more balanced than L30.

I dont know if I agree that they're the same. We've had this discussion on discord and I admit I wasnt keen on building for lvl 19 at first, but now I'm less against it, to be fair. The thing is the reason I personally build and help others improve their mechanics knowledge is because I loath gate-keeping. I dont think gate-keeping in regards to lvl 19 builds meta is a real issue because I think the staff is trying desperately to get people to leave Skal, and if someone is getting rofl-stomped as a result of gate-keeping - they can leave skal, continue leveling and meet the real hard cap at lvl 30 where nothing is gate-kept and we have compendiums of builds.

Also, a lvl 19 meta in arelith would be pretty straight forward: get dispels. mords, holy sword, etc.